Well, the Solstice is here and nearly gone in old Taiwan... Dragonboat Festival, pyramids of bamboo wrapped rice and meat, called Tsung Tse, everyone returns home to spend the day with family. Weather-wise, 90 degrees F or more, torential rain in the evening -- never have been sure that Taiwan has a Spring, more like hot and cold seasons.
Yeah, the sabbath is a bit of concession from the endless drudgery. It's not a weekend mind you, it's only one day, and you have to spend it being all holy. It's like your boss giving you a free day and then telling you what you have to do with it. I mean, who among us has not hacked on Propeller projects on a Sunday?
The Prop will be done when it's done. I do wish Parallax would put out like a monthly progress report, instead of keeping people guessing. If Chip is really behind then admit it, look when you're 6 years into a creating a sequel, telling the end users that it will be another 6 months before there is a FPGA image to play with isn't a show stopper.
I love those progress reports that Chip posts too ... the thing is, they're so tasty that there's always many questions and then follows ideas and suggestions ... Chip isn't in any need of high level ideas right now.
As for a schedule to be behind on, everyone should know perfectly well - there ain't one. Ken wasn't promising anything with his guesses. About the only thing he was confident about was the six month process after the design is complete.
Chip and I are talking about a big gathering at Parallax in the near future. I'm waiting for him to say "schedule it" - which starts a six-month countdown. These words will be spoken when the following things happen:
- Propeller 2 code is running in full on the Parallax FPGA 1-2-3 Development Board
- Manual layout of Propeller 2 is done by Treehouse Designs
My best guess is that we'll be hosting a gathering at Parallax with tri-tip, salmon, robots, Propellers and UAVs by the Fall. Oh, and you too. Lots of you.
Ken Gracey
I understand that Parallax is very reluctant to make any schedule commitments on the P2, and at this point they will only post hopes and guesses. However, it would be really nice if they could provide some kind of progress update periodically.
Are you referring to the six month process in this post?
Thanks, yes.
... it would be really nice if they could provide some kind of progress update periodically.
Maybe. I guess it depends on whether that could be shown to create more demand or not.
I think that would change things at Parallax however. Either Chip ends up getting very formal with us, giving less technical detail, or someone else there is allocated to create the reports and therefore more expense is added to the design process.
I don't think it would take much time or effort to send out a 140-character tweet once in a while. I think most of us would just like to know how the P2 development is going.
Anyone else familiar with Gantt charts, PERT charts, and CPM? Nonetheless, I have come to accept the Propeller 2 is what it is and will arrive in any form whenever.
No Twitter, no Facebook, and am less involved in on-line chatter than ever before. These days, mostly I read and think from sources on line and that is very rewarding.
That sort of planning is for the many. When a project manager is try to sort out who, when, what and where so that each part matches up in order. All that doesn't start until Chip is finished.
Schedule: 1 week, because electronics are simple. Actually it took me 3 week. Costumer start to become mad and told: "WTF? We have money. Why it's still no levitating." Moral: Sometimes it's fundamental physics and electronics problems and money or schedule planning can not solve it.
The same is with P2. Chip and another one or two engineers/developers team are working hards, but now everything could be scheduled. By adding more people to development (let's assume that money isn't problem) will not solve development problems (NASA expierence while MIT developet Apollo guidande computer software in 60-ies). That's is fundamental difference between engineer/developer thinking and manager/marketer thinking.
I understand that developing the P2 is a big project. What I don't understand is why Parallax is no longer communicating with their customers about the project. When someone says that it will take another 4 months or another 2 months what are we supposed to do? Should we believe them or should we assume that they have no idea how long it will take and ignore their statements?
Probably the best is to assume that Parallax care about P2 and working hard on P2. They are getting tehcical problems and solving it instead of releasing buggy stuff to market. They are really doing the best what they can. In such good attitude it's much better than scrubbed schedules. They are really wan exciting ap perfect MCU. Good luck Parallax!
What I hated most in field service was the very intermittent problem. You know the ones I mean. The problem is never there when you are in front of the equipment, it rarely happens, but does so at the most inopportune times, and after swapping out most of the electronics and mechanics it's still there.
I would rather face a hundred of those than try to develop something as complex as the P2 on a schedule. It takes as long as it takes, and as anxious as I am to play with the resulting chip I am happy to get the occasional brief update while I wait for it.
This is what bugs me about Parallax. They should have the chops to tell their Prop base - especially those that have volunteered to test the FPGA model of the PII what is going on, on a regular basis, it doesn't have to be much more than a tweet. Just going totally dark isn't cutting it.
I understand that developing the P2 is a big project. What I don't understand is why Parallax is no longer communicating with their customers about the project. When someone says that it will take another 4 months or another 2 months what are we supposed to do? Should we believe them or should we assume that they have no idea how long it will take and ignore their statements?
At this stage, it is what it is. I do keep reminding myself that Parallax is a small business by US standards in an industry of heavy hitters.
I don't believe there's enough data to establish an accurate gestation period for a project like this. It'll get here when it gets here. My life certainly isn't on hold waiting for it.
My concern is that while waiting, the embedded market keeps moving on, with lots of other options out there.
Even when a P2 gets here will it be able to do
-USB 2.0
-100 MB Ethernet
-control a WiFi/BT/BTLE radio (not a separate full up module)
-display a high res picture
-show a You Tube video
-run Python
But there are a whole host of ARM embedded controllers that can do those. Am I suggesting Parallax design their own ARM. HECK no, just buy one.
Isn't it time to have an updated BASIC Stamp? RS-232, 32 whole bytes of data, REALLY? Sure keep it on the price list, but how about an upgrade.
Sure give Chip a budget and let him finish the P2, but in the meantime pick an ARM that can do the above. There are $2 ARMs that have built in USB, or $10 ones that can run Python and handle high res video.
A GCC tool could be a product in a couple weeks, a BASIC Stamp replacement out in a month. I don't know enough about Python, but it could be out before the P2.
Parallax makes most of its revenue from other peoples products, why not also include ARM processors.
One of the posters here pointed me to a nice PIC32 alternative to the BS2 after I grumbled about the lack of a BS3. The thing is a natural fit for Parallax, it's too bad they didn't work with it's developer - a fella by the name Geoff from Australia. But that ship has sailed.
That said, I'm sure Parallax has some valid business reasons why they haven't come up with a BS2 replacement. I'd guess it's still a money maker for them despite it's age. They did sell some 3 million of them. But it would be nice to see a modern version.
In a world flooded with Arduinos, and now Raspberry Pi's, I don't see how providing a BASIC interpreter on a PIC32 or whatever is going to get much traction.
No, Parallax needs the unique selling point of the Prop multi-core architecture.
Well there are multi-core ARMs out there, even ones with additional bit-banging predictable IO processors.
At a price higher than the P1 and performance much slower than cheap ARMs, other than a small niche of believers here where is the market for that? Parallax does better integrating peripherals, build kits and educational products, seems to me updating the controller is a better fit than waiting 10 years for the next one.
One of the posters here pointed me to a nice PIC32 alternative to the BS2 after I grumbled about the lack of a BS3. The thing is a natural fit for Parallax, it's too bad they didn't work with it's developer - a fella by the name Geoff from Australia. But that ship has sailed.
There are new candidates for a BS3, so that could still be done.
A BS3 needs to be wide supply, and so work with any BS2 design - 3.3V only is a dead duck.
Wireless is the next new thing, and a device like this has Wide Vcc and Wireless.
Comments
Come on, the best thing ever about the Ten Commandments is that we got a weekend.
So in other words exactly like here in southern Louisiana?
As for a schedule to be behind on, everyone should know perfectly well - there ain't one. Ken wasn't promising anything with his guesses. About the only thing he was confident about was the six month process after the design is complete.
Maybe. I guess it depends on whether that could be shown to create more demand or not.
I think that would change things at Parallax however. Either Chip ends up getting very formal with us, giving less technical detail, or someone else there is allocated to create the reports and therefore more expense is added to the design process.
No Twitter, no Facebook, and am less involved in on-line chatter than ever before. These days, mostly I read and think from sources on line and that is very rewarding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gantt_chart
Some time ago costumer asked me to build magnetic levitator similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcAqpjJ5gbQ
Schedule: 1 week, because electronics are simple. Actually it took me 3 week. Costumer start to become mad and told: "WTF? We have money. Why it's still no levitating." Moral: Sometimes it's fundamental physics and electronics problems and money or schedule planning can not solve it.
The same is with P2. Chip and another one or two engineers/developers team are working hards, but now everything could be scheduled. By adding more people to development (let's assume that money isn't problem) will not solve development problems (NASA expierence while MIT developet Apollo guidande computer software in 60-ies). That's is fundamental difference between engineer/developer thinking and manager/marketer thinking.
I would rather face a hundred of those than try to develop something as complex as the P2 on a schedule. It takes as long as it takes, and as anxious as I am to play with the resulting chip I am happy to get the occasional brief update while I wait for it.
Here is a bunch of people who have been celebrating the uptime of one of the longest running computers in the world, 4000 years or so:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-33211353
Now, where is that PII thingamajig?
At this stage, it is what it is. I do keep reminding myself that Parallax is a small business by US standards in an industry of heavy hitters.
-Phil
More seriously, you are right, leave it long enough and there will be no audience remaining.
Even when a P2 gets here will it be able to do
-USB 2.0
-100 MB Ethernet
-control a WiFi/BT/BTLE radio (not a separate full up module)
-display a high res picture
-show a You Tube video
-run Python
But there are a whole host of ARM embedded controllers that can do those. Am I suggesting Parallax design their own ARM. HECK no, just buy one.
Isn't it time to have an updated BASIC Stamp? RS-232, 32 whole bytes of data, REALLY? Sure keep it on the price list, but how about an upgrade.
Sure give Chip a budget and let him finish the P2, but in the meantime pick an ARM that can do the above. There are $2 ARMs that have built in USB, or $10 ones that can run Python and handle high res video.
A GCC tool could be a product in a couple weeks, a BASIC Stamp replacement out in a month. I don't know enough about Python, but it could be out before the P2.
Parallax makes most of its revenue from other peoples products, why not also include ARM processors.
One of the posters here pointed me to a nice PIC32 alternative to the BS2 after I grumbled about the lack of a BS3. The thing is a natural fit for Parallax, it's too bad they didn't work with it's developer - a fella by the name Geoff from Australia. But that ship has sailed.
That said, I'm sure Parallax has some valid business reasons why they haven't come up with a BS2 replacement. I'd guess it's still a money maker for them despite it's age. They did sell some 3 million of them. But it would be nice to see a modern version.
No, Parallax needs the unique selling point of the Prop multi-core architecture.
At a price higher than the P1 and performance much slower than cheap ARMs, other than a small niche of believers here where is the market for that? Parallax does better integrating peripherals, build kits and educational products, seems to me updating the controller is a better fit than waiting 10 years for the next one.
Let's not forget Chip. He has a vision and he want's to make it happen. No matter what the rest of the world thinks of it.
God speed to Chip I say.
A BS3 needs to be wide supply, and so work with any BS2 design - 3.3V only is a dead duck.
Wireless is the next new thing, and a device like this has Wide Vcc and Wireless.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CY8C4127LQI-BL473/428-3361-5-ND/5044721
Could make a very interesting BS3 ?
NXP LPC43xx family, 51 variants of dual and tri core ARMs, with and without Flash, floating point accelerator, and a simple IOH
NXP LPC5410x family with dual core ARMs, floating point accelerator, and dual IOHs.
TI uses a dual core ARM in its CC3200 WiFi
ST has lots of multi-core ARMs in the A9 line (aimed at linux boxes).