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Propeller II update - BLOG - Page 60 — Parallax Forums

Propeller II update - BLOG

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  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2012-11-28 16:08
    AARGH!

    I have to update my Quartus, the old 10.1 I had installed (came on the Nano's DVD) thinks Chip's jc file is corrupt.

    I've started the painful download (painful because I moved my lab, and I only have wireless in the new lab at the moment).

    I did manage to add something useful to my DE0-Nano :-)

    DE0-nano.JPG


    While Quartus is downloading I'll look up the current drive limits of the EP4C22 on the Nano...
    1024 x 768 - 349K
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2012-11-28 16:49
    cgracey wrote: »
    The DE2-115 board needs an HSMC adapter board to get the signals out of it. The little DE0-Nano, just uses .100" headers, so it was easy to connect to.

    Wait... there is a 40-pin header on the DE2-115 that we could plug a Prop Plug into. Do you have a Prop Plug? Let me see if I can make a special configuration for you.
    Do I have a Prop Plug? I don't have enough ears for the stuff that comes out of them except maybe I'm a bit lacking in the DE0-Nano area though :)
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,366
    edited 2012-11-28 17:31
    AARGH!

    I have to update my Quartus, the old 10.1 I had installed (came on the Nano's DVD) thinks Chip's jc file is corrupt.

    I've started the painful download (painful because I moved my lab, and I only have wireless in the new lab at the moment).

    I did manage to add something useful to my DE0-Nano :-)

    DE0-nano.JPG


    While Quartus is downloading I'll look up the current drive limits of the EP4C22 on the Nano...
    Actually, my current copy of Quartus thought the file was corrupt the first time I tried to load it but it worked the second time.
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2012-11-28 17:52
    Hi Chip.

    It is simpler than that ---uSD shall be on bottom side
    Flash little more down


    cgracey wrote: »
    Wow! It looks like you are anticipating using some taller female headers? You'll need clearance over your parts that are under the DE0-Nano board, or maybe you'll just remove the acrylic cover.
  • SeairthSeairth Posts: 2,474
    edited 2012-11-28 17:57
    What is the planned sample rate and resolution of the ADCs? And how many are going to be available?
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-28 17:58
    Do I have a Prop Plug? I don't have enough ears for the stuff that comes out of them except maybe I'm a bit lacking in the DE0-Nano area though :)

    I'm compiling a special version for you here with 6 cogs at 60MHz and the full 128KB hub memory. It should be done in a few hours. I won't be able to test it, myself, since my DE2-115 died, but you can try it out.

    Here's how you'll hook it up:

    DE2_115_Prop2_Pinout.jpg


    The inputs switches (sw17..sw0) are read via P49..P32 inputs.
    The lower three pushbuttons (key2..key0) are read via P52..P50 inputs.
    The top pushbutton (key3) is RESn.
    The red LEDs (LEDR17..LEDR0) are controlled by P49..P32 outputs.
    The green LEDs (LEDG7..LEDG0) indicate cogs active.
    1024 x 541 - 90K
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-28 18:01
    Seairth wrote: »
    What is the planned sample rate and resolution of the ADCs? And how many are going to be available?

    Every pin has several ADC and DAC modes. The FPGA can't emulate that part of the circuit, though - only the digital.

    The internal delta-sigma has two modes, fast and course (>10MHz bw, 9-bit resolution), or slow and fine (<100KHz bw, 13-bit resolution).
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2012-11-28 18:25
    cgracey wrote: »
    I'm compiling a special version for you here with 6 cogs at 60MHz and the full 128KB hub memory. It should be done in a few hours. I won't be able to test it, myself, since my DE2-115 died, but you can try it out.

    Here's how you'll hook it up:

    DE2_115_Prop2_Pinout.jpg


    The inputs switches (sw17..sw0) are read via P49..P32 inputs.
    The lower three pushbuttons (key2..key0) are read via P52..P50 inputs.
    The top pushbutton (key3) is RESn.
    The red LEDs (LEDR17..LEDR0) are controlled by P49..P32 outputs.
    The green LEDs (LEDG7..LEDG0) indicate cogs active.
    Wow, this is so exciting, I've got that hooked up and just waiting.
    Thanks Chip.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2012-11-28 18:28
    Chip,

    I was just looking at the DE2-115 specs, and it looks like the VGA DAC they use could be mapped onto the P2 style DAC - they use 29 I/O's for it, implying 3 channels of 9 bits plus HSync & Vsync.

    The memory would be useful too... several different configurations could be tried.

    The SD socket, USB phy's, PS/2 connector and IR-in would also map nicely onto P2 pins, heck even the RS232 port would be useful.

    If the above mapping are possible, perhaps the Mezzanine could just be a break out to .1" pins?
    cgracey wrote: »
    I'm compiling a special version for you here with 6 cogs at 60MHz and the full 128KB hub memory. It should be done in a few hours. I won't be able to test it, myself, since my DE2-115 died, but you can try it out.

    Here's how you'll hook it up:

    DE2_115_Prop2_Pinout.jpg


    The inputs switches (sw17..sw0) are read via P49..P32 inputs.
    The lower three pushbuttons (key2..key0) are read via P52..P50 inputs.
    The top pushbutton (key3) is RESn.
    The red LEDs (LEDR17..LEDR0) are controlled by P49..P32 outputs.
    The green LEDs (LEDG7..LEDG0) indicate cogs active.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,188
    edited 2012-11-28 18:57
    I went in with a student friend and got the 115.

    @Ken, how do we place an order for the DE2-115 adapter board? Maybe I can combine it with a new Prop Plug. Mine is dead...

    Mine will arrive sometime next week. Heh, he's a newbie in a lot of ways, and will get some P2 time right out of the gate!
  • John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
    edited 2012-11-28 19:43
    I just read the preliminary datasheet for Prop 2. In the "External RAM", the text in the sheet said: "...with the help of the I/O pins, to quickly stream parallel data in or out of the I/O pins aligned to a clock source." sounds like as synchronous operation to me. The word "stream" inside could mean it's DMA(-esque). I don't know if there are any configuration registers that requires settings on the pulse/access times, probably it could be there later. In PIC32's Parallel Master Port, it has registers that control the behaviours of the access times. Example, on 80MHz, a few clocks is required for a 45ns SRAM. And this text "...From there it can be quickly feed to the video generator or to the internal HUB RAM. XFR feeds data 16 Bits or 32 Bits at a time at the system clock speed..." could suggest that the External RAM just streams all the stuff into the video generator without the cog's intervention. Another DMA(-esque) thing if I read this thing correct.

    Plus, I'm a bit confused about the "Texture Mapping". The text said: "Each cog has texture mapping hardware to assist the video generator with displaying textures and performing color blending on screen." Would it mean that the Prop2 can handle stuff in 3D, like a basic graphics engine? Because on things like "textures", it's usually referred to 3-dimensions as you need to "wrap" the wireframe model. I would assume that the mnemonics "getpix", "setpix" and stuff don't really look like it's for 3D, it's more like you put a pixel onto the screen directly. Or, the "texture mapping" could be a "sprite engine" thing.

    Pardon for the long questions because I tend to overanalyze the exciting parts of Prop2, which is the External RAM interfaces and the video generators. We all know the Props are popular with these video generators, which other microcontrollers seem to lack.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-28 20:09
    Wow, this is so exciting, I've got that hooked up and just waiting.
    Thanks Chip.

    Okay! It's here:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?144199-Propeller-II-Emulation-of-1-cog-on-a-DE0-NANO-FPGA-board&p=1145687&viewfull=1#post1145687
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-28 20:13
    potatohead wrote: »
    I went in with a student friend and got the 115.

    @Ken, how do we place an order for the DE2-115 adapter board? Maybe I can combine it with a new Prop Plug. Mine is dead...

    Mine will arrive sometime next week. Heh, he's a newbie in a lot of ways, and will get some P2 time right out of the gate!

    If we can map all sorts of DE2-115 peripherals to the Prop2 pins, we may not need an adapter board. I just uploaded a way to use the DE2-115 board with nothing but a Prop Plug:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?144199-Propeller-II-Emulation-of-1-cog-on-a-DE0-NANO-FPGA-board&p=1145687&viewfull=1#post1145687

    For now, just worry about getting a Prop Plug to go with the DE2-115.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-28 20:15
    I just read the preliminary datasheet for Prop 2. In the "External RAM", the text in the sheet said: "...with the help of the I/O pins, to quickly stream parallel data in or out of the I/O pins aligned to a clock source." sounds like as synchronous operation to me. The word "stream" inside could mean it's DMA(-esque). I don't know if there are any configuration registers that requires settings on the pulse/access times, probably it could be there later. In PIC32's Parallel Master Port, it has registers that control the behaviours of the access times. Example, on 80MHz, a few clocks is required for a 45ns SRAM. And this text "...From there it can be quickly feed to the video generator or to the internal HUB RAM. XFR feeds data 16 Bits or 32 Bits at a time at the system clock speed..." could suggest that the External RAM just streams all the stuff into the video generator without the cog's intervention. Another DMA(-esque) thing if I read this thing correct.

    Plus, I'm a bit confused about the "Texture Mapping". The text said: "Each cog has texture mapping hardware to assist the video generator with displaying textures and performing color blending on screen." Would it mean that the Prop2 can handle stuff in 3D, like a basic graphics engine? Because on things like "textures", it's usually referred to 3-dimensions as you need to "wrap" the wireframe model. I would assume that the mnemonics "getpix", "setpix" and stuff don't really look like it's for 3D, it's more like you put a pixel onto the screen directly. Or, the "texture mapping" could be a "sprite engine" thing.

    Pardon for the long questions because I tend to overanalyze the exciting parts of Prop2, which is the External RAM interfaces and the video generators. We all know the Props are popular with these video generators, which other microcontrollers seem to lack.

    The texture mapping looks up pixels within a texture. It also handles perspective for more realistic 3D. It takes care of a lot of the busy work, but you'll still need to compute the 3D stuff. This, like the SDRAM interface, is not yet documented, but will be soon.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,366
    edited 2012-11-28 20:27
    Does the Propeller 2 (and its DE0-Nano instantiation) use the same binary loader protocol as the Propeller 1?
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-28 20:36
    David Betz wrote: »
    Does the Propeller 2 (and its DE0-Nano instantiation) use the same binary loader protocol as the Propeller 1?

    For initial handshake, yes. After that, Prop2 is simpler - it just gets a 512-long program to be authenticated. Once authenticated, the program takes over and does whatever else is desired. If you notice, you can do an identify-hardware on both apps. The Prop2 reads as version 32 ($2.0).
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,188
    edited 2012-11-28 21:08
    Ok, will do. Now it's just shipping time.... tap, tap, tap...
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 17,762
    edited 2012-11-28 21:29
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    Yes, I do. I'm watching it closely for a bit and seeing what Chip decides board-wise. When we know where he's headed, then I'll round up the troops for some PR action and we'll start a thread for Propeller 2 core programming in board "X". When Chip was here at my place last week I extracted enough information from him to get behind this movement.

    Great Ken. Once you have a writeup perhaps we can help spread the word.
  • AleAle Posts: 2,360
    edited 2012-11-28 22:29
    I'll keep it simple... Awesome !!!!! I will get that DE0-nano board afterall. Great work yo u all!
  • John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
    edited 2012-11-28 23:16
    cgracey wrote: »
    The texture mapping looks up pixels within a texture. It also handles perspective for more realistic 3D. It takes care of a lot of the busy work, but you'll still need to compute the 3D stuff. This, like the SDRAM interface, is not yet documented, but will be soon.

    Hmm. Sounds exciting. While the fact that many of us used Props for creating experimental video game consoles, they are retro in nature. That means, no 3D is involved, only sprites and tiles are used.

    I believe that the texture mapping mechanisms also effectively deals with sprites and tiles, if the hardware/software allows such things.

    The colors in Prop2 is more than enough for SNES. So I think, SNES could be emulated on one or two Prop2s with a few supporting circuits.
  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2012-11-29 08:26
    Hello Chip,

    I am preparing a new product (Flash memory), and I wondered if it would be compatible with the new Propeller?
    Link: http://luisdigital.com/tienda/product.php?id_product=14
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-29 08:45
    Hello Chip,

    I am preparing a new product (Flash memory), and I wondered if it would be compatible with the new Propeller?
    Link: http://luisdigital.com/tienda/product.php?id_product=14

    If it works at 3.3V, it should be compatible.
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2012-11-29 10:40
    Hi Chip.

    Only PS2 to connect.

    But I have one question.
    If I send SCH's I made to it --- Can you approve them ?
    1024 x 511 - 119K
  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2012-11-29 10:43
    cgracey wrote: »
    If it works at 3.3V, it should be compatible.
    Then the Propeller II has 4 M Bytes waiting to be ready.
    Thank you.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,610
    edited 2012-11-29 12:31
    Sapieha wrote: »
    Hi Chip.

    Only PS2 to connect.

    But I have one question.
    If I send SCH's I made to it --- Can you approve them ?

    Sure, I'll look them over if you'd like.

    I'm going to talk to Ken and see if there's any way we could help you to make your board. It's quite fancier than what we've got planned.

    By the way, that SPI Flash part number should be W25Q80BVDAIG.
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2012-11-29 12:43
    Hi Chip.

    Thanks.

    In some time I will post that SCH's.


    cgracey wrote: »
    Sure, I'll look them over if you'd like.

    I'm going to talk to Ken and see if there's any way we could help you to make your board. It's quite fancier than what we've got planned.

    By the way, that SPI Flash part number should be W25Q80BVDAIG.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,300
    edited 2012-11-29 13:38
    @Sapieha, Chip and I agreed we can get your PCBs made over here in the USA, if you'd like. I don't mind ordering a dozen of them for you. I could then ship some or all of them to you, and keep some here if you want them to go to certain forum members. Since ordering PCBs can be a bit complicated and needs the designer to place the order, I'd be happy if you submitted them somewhere and I followed up with payment information. Customers who want to build them up could order the parts on their own. Let me know your thoughts.
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2012-11-29 13:55
    Hi Ken.

    Very BIG THANKS.

    I have need for one only -- Maybe one as reserve.
    ONE to Bill Henning for all his help with components hi send me.

    For that entire work --- All Proteus files belong to Parallax and I will send them To You else if You think it is OK on forum.
    BUT only Parallax have my approval produce them.
    And how You then distribute / market them it only You that decide.

    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    @Sapieha, Chip and I agreed we can get your PCBs made over here in the USA, if you'd like. I don't mind ordering a dozen of them for you. I could then ship some or all of them to you, and keep some here if you want them to go to certain forum members. Since ordering PCBs can be a bit complicated and needs the designer to place the order, I'd be happy if you submitted them somewhere and I followed up with payment information. Customers who want to build them up could order the parts on their own. Let me know your thoughts.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,300
    edited 2012-11-29 14:12
    Hey Sapieha, that'd be fine. I can order them whenever you send me the files. You can put them on forums, of course, but be sure to send me the zip by e-mail below. Be sure to specify all colors and anything they need to know because I won't be in the right position to answer to many questions from the PCB supplier (monkey in the control room).

    And when I send these to you I can include anything else you may appreciate. Thanks for being part of the Propeller 2 early adopter team.
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