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Propeller II update - BLOG

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  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-07 21:11
    turbosupra wrote:
    If only the prop1 could have a 64 bit counter!
    It does! Configure ctra for DUTY mode with frqa = 1 and output on a pin. Configure ctrb to be positive edge triggered with frqb = 1 and input from the same pin. There's your 64-bit counter: phsb:phsa !

    -Phil
  • kuronekokuroneko Posts: 3,623
    edited 2012-03-07 21:22
    It does! Configure ctra for DUTY mode with frqa = 1 and output on a pin. Configure ctrb to be positive edge triggered with frqb = 1 and input from the same pin. There's your 64-bit counter: phsb:phsa !
    Don't! Use a normal NCO and edge detection for the upper 32bit. DUTY is all but reliable at 80MHz.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2012-03-07 22:03
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    I am just disappointed that the lack of a simple controllable gate and line to input to the counters/video seems to be missing. This is such a simple thing and would permit these complex counters/video to be used in all kinds of ways in reverse (as in clocking the data in rather than out). Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but IMHO this would have far more use in any P2 design (for use as serial in modes) than any of the complex functions of these counters/video provide. Enough said.

    Certainly a Counter should feature :
    * External Gate ability
    * External capture, Narrow pulse capable (and yes, both features available at the same time)
    * capture of multiple counters from one pin. ( The pin-map nature of Prop should do this bit easily.)
    * Precaler, ( also to > CoreCLK speed - A binary ripple counter and MUX is ok here, so Silicon cost is tiny)
    * As well as the Adder-mode it has now, a more conventional divide by N too, for stable CLK generation.
    ( this will likely be there, if they have a fixed PWM ability )
    * External triggered preset.
    If that have Quadrature, they likely have at least this :
    Up/Down ability, external Clock, and External Preset from the Index Pulse encoders deliver.

    * & some tiny-config-logic, like PICs have of XOR + D/T FF on the pins.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-07 22:24
    kuroneko wrote:
    Don't! Use a normal NCO and edge detection for the upper 32bit. DUTY is all but reliable at 80MHz.
    I vaguely remember this coming up in one of your posts now. Can you provide a reference to refresh my memory?

    BTW, for those who want to do this with NCO, use negative edge triggering in the second counter.

    -Phil
  • kuronekokuroneko Posts: 3,623
    edited 2012-03-07 22:53
    I vaguely remember this coming up in one of your posts now. Can you provide a reference to refresh my memory?
    [thread=127653][FYI] waitpxx cog synchronisation[/thread]
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2012-03-08 08:19
    So the consensus for a prop 1 64bit counter is now to use a normal NCO and negative/trailing edge detection for the upper 32bit?
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-08 08:48
    'Can't speak to "consensus", but I think kuroneko and I are on the same page, at least. Be sure to use this procedure for reading all 64 bits:
    1. Read the high counter.
    2. Read the low counter.
    3. Read the high counter again. Did it change since reading 1?
    3a. Yes: Read the low counter again, and use this and reading 3.
    3b. No: Use readings 1 and 2.

    For the best accuracy, you will want to adjust the result for the delay between readings 2 and 3a. But this is a diversion from the topic of this thread. Any further comments should have their own thread.

    -Phil
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2012-03-08 09:01
    Isn't there a problem that you can't read both longs at the same time? So, you need extra code to catch roll-overs...

    BTW: I was hoping we'd see actual Prop2 chips at the West Coast Expo this year... Guess that's not going to happen...
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-08 09:03
    Rayman,

    'Beat ya! :)

    -Phil
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2012-03-08 12:08
    Chip said this is handled automagically so rollover race conditions shouldn't be a problem.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-08 12:14
    pedward,

    Yes, the Prop II spec says that; but we were talking about the Prop I.

    -Phil
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2012-03-08 13:04
    The half bridge drivers I have seen already have a 500ns deadband to prevent cross conduction. Since you won't likely be driving MOSFETs directly from a propeller port pin, just let the driver chip handle it.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2012-03-16 10:42
    Just had an idea for the Parallax Marketing Department... For a name for Prop 2, how about:

    "Parallax Phalanx" or maybe "Parallax Propeller Phalanx" ?

    After all, having 96 identical, super-powered, I/O pins not to mention 8 cores, is probably the biggest distinguishing features, right?

    Also, it's a "P...x" word. Probably not too many of those...
  • SONIC the HedgehogSONIC the Hedgehog Posts: 321
    edited 2012-03-16 10:43
    Sounds cool enough!
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2012-03-16 10:56
    Phalanx is not very unique. Google gives over 8 million hits on that word. Also, it could be confused with another word stating with Phal...
  • SONIC the HedgehogSONIC the Hedgehog Posts: 321
    edited 2012-03-16 11:00
    Does it have 8 million hits on any kind of microprocessor or controller called phalanx? Can you name 3 pieces of technology that have the name?
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2012-03-16 12:29
    Most of the hits are for a missile defense system. There's a few hits for some form of software. There's an online electronics store in India. Various peices of elecronic hardware.
  • SONIC the HedgehogSONIC the Hedgehog Posts: 321
    edited 2012-03-16 13:37
    Dave Hein wrote: »
    Most of the hits are for a missile defense system. There's a few hits for some form of software. There's an online electronics store in India. Various peices of elecronic hardware.
    But now we would have an awesome one.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2012-03-16 17:24
    Thanks for sticking up for me Sonic! (as I inch closer to 5,000 posts)...
  • SONIC the HedgehogSONIC the Hedgehog Posts: 321
    edited 2012-03-16 17:27
    Rayman wrote: »
    Thanks for sticking up for me Sonic! (as I inch closer to 5,000 posts)...
    Not a proplem! (get it?m:lol:)
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2012-03-27 05:13
    Hmm. I'd like to know quick where the prop 2 is, but not willing to wade 56 pages. Perhaps we need a parallax only blog?
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,566
    edited 2012-03-27 06:21
    Erik Friesen,

    The Propeller II is LVS/DRC clean (LVS - Layout Versus Schematic ; DRC = Design(process) Rule Checking) at the top level with the exception of the 'core' which is currently being auto routed and will be LVSd/DRCd independently. Of the main RAM, there is a section of it that will be hard coded as ROM. This is just a bit-level bit-cell replacement of the existing bit RAM cell within the memory block. (<- a simple process that shouldn't take long.) We are expecting Propeller II chips in hand by mid to end May.
  • HShankoHShanko Posts: 402
    edited 2012-03-27 08:08
    Ooooooh! It is getting close. (Dancing with glee)

    Thanks Beau for that bit of new.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-03-27 08:33
    ...of 2012!! :smile:

    (just trying to help!)
  • average joeaverage joe Posts: 795
    edited 2012-03-27 08:33
    I can't WAIT for the Prop2. The one thing I'm curious about is what the release price will be *estimate* I need to save up money so I can get my hands on one ASAP.
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2012-03-27 08:37
    He didn't say whose hand, and it wasn't plural. Anyway, will there be dev tools ready?
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,241
    edited 2012-03-27 08:50
    We are expecting Propeller II chips in hand by mid to end May.
    Really cool on the update Thanks Beau.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-27 09:36
    Things to do after first silicon "in hand":
    • Thoroughly test functionality.
    • Characterize for voltage, current consumption, speed, etc., over temperature.
    • Assuming first silicon checks out, schedule a production run.
    • Produce a complete datasheet.
    • Produce and document dev tools.
    • Design and manufacture EVM kits.
    • Write example software and educational materials for the EVMs.
    • Design a marketing program and produce sales materials.
    • It's show time! (Sometime in mid 2013?)
    I'm sure I've left out some steps.

    -Phil
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2012-03-27 11:04
    I'd bet $50 that a lot of that is already underway. Chip & Co aren't so dim that they wouldn't start the dev tools till chips were in hand.
  • tdg8934tdg8934 Posts: 126
    edited 2012-03-27 12:55
    Great news to hear. So hopefully by the summer we can harness the power of the Prop2. Thanks Beau.
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