Cool picture Andrew. :cool: Is that you flying an airplane...?!
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Mr. Kibler,
You are very observant! That picture was taken quite a while ago. Just a few days ago I had the opportunity to fly a new Piper Sport aircraft on my birthday in Florida (see the picture below). It was much different than any other plane I've had the opportunity to fly before, namely because of it's small size and weight. I'm still studying to get my private pilots license, and I'll most likely be getting my student pilot certificate soon. Although, I still have much to learn.
You could simply carry the ASP-3 robot up to 12,000 in your airplane and drop it out the window...! It would save us a trip to Nevada (but wait! That was the fun part of last year's project, wasn't it?)
I was wanting to ask you about your thoughts on our upcoming project.
What do you think about creating a rover, with the same functionality as last year's ASP II? Do you have any other project Ideas? We are at the stage where we acquire what project we wish to participate in, so any comment on this matter whatsoever is welcome.
I was wanting to ask you about your thoughts on our upcoming project.
What do you think about creating a rover, with the same functionality as last year's ASP II? Do you have any other project Ideas? We are at the stage where we acquire what project we wish to participate in, so any comment on this matter whatsoever is welcome.
Does the bot have to both navigate by GPS AND do all the other stuff that it has done in previous flights? You're asking questions about whether or not you have room, both physical and in EEPROM for what is needed to add navigation. But of course if you remove some of the earlier stuff, you can make room, unless your plans require GPS to simply be added. You said "with the same functionality as last year's ASP II". What if you went back to the version from a year earlier (if necessary)?
Side comment: besides physical room and memory space, you also need to keep in mind that adding devices adds power drain. You will have to pay attention to both the lifetime of the batteries you're flying (that milliamp-Hour stuff we talked about last year) and also the moment-to-moment current draw (how many milliamps are required by your devices at any one time?). In particular, you need to be aware that motors of any sort (including those that move the bot) draw a LOT more power than sensors and LEDs and things like that.
I think that tackling both movement AND navigation will be quite a task. You have a BOE-Bot - have you worked through the exercises in the manual? You can make sure that you understand the issues around moving a robot with what you have already, and probably learn quite a bit about half of the programming you're going to need.
As for GPS navigation, reading current position from a GPS is not that difficult. A GPS simply sends out all of the GPS data as serial data on one wire. Your Stamp can read those data (SERIN...) into variables. With some clever programming, you could determine how far north, south, east, and west of your target base the Bot currently is. At that point, you either:
1 - need to figure out which direction is which (that is, if you're east of the base, which direction is west?), which of course would require a calibrated compass module, or
2 - come up with a routine for driving the Bot in a way that reduced the distance to the base (sort of an ongoing "drive a little, and then check if we're closer or further away, and adjust accordingly").
I think it would be educational for you to think about the pluses and minuses of these approaches.
I also think that whatever you can glean from other teams' work would help you a lot.
Mr. Kibler-
I don't know if Casey would like to join, but I was talking to Miranda Arris and she seems interested. Miranda might not be availabe during the entire summer as she usually goes to Georgia for atleast one week to visit family.I will try to meet with you and her if necessary. I am busy in Flex tomorrow, but is Thursday okay to meet with you?
Mr. Kibler, Andrew, Dylan
I am available Jan. 16th. I plan on bringing a notebook and binder, is there anything else I should bring? Other than the cookies that is! Also, Where would the meeting be held? I am looking forward to meeting everyone.
-Emily
If everyone is OK with it then, let's meet on the 16th from 1-4 PM at my house (8 Ray Road Dunbarton, as always.) Parents should plan on attending, especially if you are trying out for this year's team. I'd like to meet them and give them an overview of the ARLISS project, let them meet each other, and ask questions.
Dylan and Andrew, consider this our first team practice and prepare an agenda and a list of things we want to accomplish. Let's make this a working session. What do you want to accomplish (get the robot moving? start a back-up ASP-2 module?) E-mail your agenda to me and then we'll post it to the forum. I propose that the two of you start by making a presentation to the new team members and their parents. Sowing the ARLISS PowerPoint and the TV video would be great. I'll dive in after that while you meet with the team and start practice.
Emily and Stephanie: Understand that this is a try-out for you. You are being screened and assessed for interest, aptitude, curiosity, problem solving, creativity, reasoning, collaboration, and more. The team needs interested, capable, outgoing young scientists, not 'kids' that sit back and wait for instructions. Dive in and get involved and you just might be asked to join the team...!
Everyone, please confirm whether you CAN or CAN'T meet on January 16th.
When a Parallax product description says "End of life", what does that mean? Does it mean that they're discontinuing the product AND discontinuing product support? I was looking at a close-out 3-axis accelerometer.
When a Parallax product description says "End of life", what does that mean? Does it mean that they're discontinuing the product AND discontinuing product support? I was looking at a close-out 3-axis accelerometer.
The product will sell until all of the current units are gone, then will no longer be available. This page describes what happens to support:
What are your thoughts on the direction we're headed in this year ---->
MISSION:
1) Deploy a BOE-bot (or similar) with the ASP-2 platform mounted to the driving base.
2) Land the ASP-bot and have it move across the desert floor until it's retrieved. The data it collects on the desert floor will be considered baseline data, to be compared against the atmospheric data it measured and collects.
STRETCH MISSION (with emphasis on stretch, sicne we would be stretching our abilities-- resources-- time into uncharted territory... again!):
1) Land the ASP-bot and have it navigate itself back to base using GPS. The stretch mission wouldn't be started until
a) the ASP-bot (above) is ground tested and fully operational
b) we build and test a back-up ASP-bot.
Last September we had a wire break on the ASP-2 during the first flight. We had to return to the hotel, completely dismantle and clean the ASP, then solder ONE BROKEN WIRE before we could launch it again. We stayed up until well after midnight doing working on it. Valuable time was lost and a lesson was learned about the importance of redundancy and having a back-up device. :thumb:
If everyone is OK with it then, let's meet on the 16th from 1-4 PM at my house (8 Ray Road Dunbarton, as always.) Parents should plan on attending, especially if you are trying out for this year's team. I'd like to meet them and give them an overview of the ARLISS project, let them meet each other, and ask questions.
Dylan and Andrew, consider this our first team practice and prepare an agenda and a list of things we want to accomplish. Let's make this a working session. What do you want to accomplish (get the robot moving? start a back-up ASP-2 module?) E-mail your agenda to me and then we'll post it to the forum. I propose that the two of you start by making a presentation to the new team members and their parents. Sowing the ARLISS PowerPoint and the TV video would be great. I'll dive in after that while you meet with the team and start practice.
Emily and Stephanie: Understand that this is a try-out for you. You are being screened and assessed for interest, aptitude, curiosity, problem solving, creativity, reasoning, collaboration, and more. The team needs interested, capable, outgoing young scientists, not 'kids' that sit back and wait for instructions. Dive in and get involved and you just might be asked to join the team...!
Everyone, please confirm whether you CAN or CAN'T meet on January 16th.
Aim high,
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Mr. Kibler & Dylan,
I believe I can meet up on the 16th, I just have to ask my dad who is on a business trip right now. I would ask my mom, but she doesn't know what we have planned for anything. Would you mind if i get back to you later (It might be on this Sunday, the 9th)?
That's fine. Just let everyone know here on the forum by this weekend whether you can or can't meet on Sunday, January 16th (1-4 PM.) This is the first team practice for returning team members. We'll be scoping out potential members for this year's team and so you attendance is important. Check with me at school if you have any questions.
If everyone is OK with it then, let's meet on the 16th from 1-4 PM at my house (8 Ray Road Dunbarton, as always.) Parents should plan on attending, especially if you are trying out for this year's team. I'd like to meet them and give them an overview of the ARLISS project, let them meet each other, and ask questions.
Dylan and Andrew, consider this our first team practice and prepare an agenda and a list of things we want to accomplish. Let's make this a working session. What do you want to accomplish (get the robot moving? start a back-up ASP-2 module?) E-mail your agenda to me and then we'll post it to the forum. I propose that the two of you start by making a presentation to the new team members and their parents. Sowing the ARLISS PowerPoint and the TV video would be great. I'll dive in after that while you meet with the team and start practice.
Emily and Stephanie: Understand that this is a try-out for you. You are being screened and assessed for interest, aptitude, curiosity, problem solving, creativity, reasoning, collaboration, and more. The team needs interested, capable, outgoing young scientists, not 'kids' that sit back and wait for instructions. Dive in and get involved and you just might be asked to join the team...!
Everyone, please confirm whether you CAN or CAN'T meet on January 16th.
Aim high,
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
I can definitely meet on January 16th from 1 to 4 PM. I've already talked with Dylan and we plan on preparing some sort of presentation for the possible new team members and their parents. I think a good starting point if we are serious about creating a rover would be to enable the movement subroutines in the program, which should be simple enough and a step in the right direction. Perhaps I will try to download, tweak and try running the latest version of the program on my BASIC Stamp Homework Board this evening. What are your thoughts, Dylan?
Thanks for confiriming that you'll be at our first team practice on January 16th (1-4 PM at 8 Ray Road in Dunbarton). A parent (or two) will be attending with you, yes?
Please contact Dylan about what to bring to practice. He is this year's 'Student Project Lead' (team captain) and I like to delegate responsibility. I also want team members to learn to collaborate, epecially new team members with returning team members. Please come with a list of any questions you have, and ask your parent(s) to do the same.
From new team members who are essentially trying out for a spot on the team I'm looking for interest, aptitude, leadership, self-motivation, curiosity, and the desire to learn and apply new skills. I'm excited that you're interested and I look forward to your continued posts here on the forum. Keep up the good work!
Does the bot have to both navigate by GPS AND do all the other stuff that it has done in previous flights? You're asking questions about whether or not you have room, both physical and in EEPROM for what is needed to add navigation. But of course if you remove some of the earlier stuff, you can make room, unless your plans require GPS to simply be added. You said "with the same functionality as last year's ASP II". What if you went back to the version from a year earlier (if necessary)?
Ideally, I think we would like to have a rover with the same atmospheric sampling functions as the ASP along with GPS navigation. Although I understand that this scenario is going to be a difficult one to achieve. At the moment, it seems that our primary goal is going to simply be to "reactivate" the movement subroutine of the current ASP program. However, being able to have the rover autonomously navigate to a preset location would be a great advantage, especially if we want to participate in the comeback competition.
Side comment: besides physical room and memory space, you also need to keep in mind that adding devices adds power drain. You will have to pay attention to both the lifetime of the batteries you're flying (that milliamp-Hour stuff we talked about last year) and also the moment-to-moment current draw (how many milliamps are required by your devices at any one time?). In particular, you need to be aware that motors of any sort (including those that move the bot) draw a LOT more power than sensors and LEDs and things like that.
If the power drain is too large, what would you suggest to mitigate the issue? A battery with a larger capacity, or perhaps powering certain components with their own battery?
I think that tackling both movement AND navigation will be quite a task. You have a BOE-Bot - have you worked through the exercises in the manual? You can make sure that you understand the issues around moving a robot with what you have already, and probably learn quite a bit about half of the programming you're going to need.
I have worked through most of the exercises in the What's A Microcontroller? and have a good basic understanding of the concepts discussed in it. Dylan, I believe you have read through the majority of the book too, is that correct? I can comfortably program a movement routine, but do not know where to even begin with integrating a GPS with it.
As for GPS navigation, reading current position from a GPS is not that difficult. A GPS simply sends out all of the GPS data as serial data on one wire. Your Stamp can read those data (SERIN...) into variables. With some clever programming, you could determine how far north, south, east, and west of your target base the Bot currently is. At that point, you either:
1 - need to figure out which direction is which (that is, if you're east of the base, which direction is west?), which of course would require a calibrated compass module, or
2 - come up with a routine for driving the Bot in a way that reduced the distance to the base (sort of an ongoing "drive a little, and then check if we're closer or further away, and adjust accordingly").
I think it would be educational for you to think about the pluses and minuses of these approaches.
I also think that whatever you can glean from other teams' work would help you a lot.
I recently acquired a Parallax GPS receiver module and have been trying to learn as much as I can about how it functions and possible ways to have it (simply) be integrated with the current version of the ASP's program. However, the first issue I've encountered in doing so is the lack of variable space when I tried to make a simple GPS movement program. The sample program, which simply displays current information such as date, time, and latitude and longitude takes up nearly the entire EEPROM of the BS2. However, I'm wondering what might be possible to remove from the sample program to free up memory -- that is, if the sample program's components are even needed at all. It's my understanding that the GPS module has two modes, a "smart" mode and a raw mode, that outputs just raw data in NMEA format. It's also my understanding that when in smart mode, the module only outputs data when it's requested (by querying it with SERIN/SEROUT). If that's the case, would it be possible to do something like this:
Query current latitude/longitude
Compare with destination latitude/longitude
Calculate required heading
Rotate rover to required heading
Move forward for set amount of time.
Repeat process to ensure accuracy.
Halt process when within x degrees of destination coordinates.
Another thought that comes to mind is how exactly the current heading would be calculated. From what I understand, it is not possible to determine heading from the global positioning system, rather, it's only possible when you have two sets of coordinates, at which point the heading can be determined as a function of the software. Is this accurate? If this is the case, does that mean that something such as a compass sensor in addition to the GPS module would be required to accurately and efficiently navigate?
Project Team and Mentors,
I apologize for my absence, for the following several weekends I will be very busy, and unable to post at that time.
"Dylan, I believe you have read through the majority of the book too, is that correct?"
Yes, I have read through a decent amount throughout the entire book. I will have to go back and review some of the commands used to access certain pin I/O's and to coordinate motor movement and such.
I will be sending out an email to the project group on what shall be brought to the meeting the 16th, tomorrow in the afternoon.
I will also be ordering a GPS unit to accommodate the parallax board that I own, and other potential components to be able to replicate some of the wiring layouts and such that we will be testing.
I'm glad to hear that you're coming on Sunday. Dylan just sent an e-mail detailing what everyone should bring. Let me know if you didn't get the e-mail.
DYLAN,
Please post the list of things people should bring on Sunday here on the forum.
"Ideally, I think we would like to have a rover with the same atmospheric sampling functions as the ASP along with GPS navigation... although I understand that this scenario is going to be a difficult one to achieve."
If the power drain is too large, what would you suggest to mitigate the issue? A battery with a larger capacity, or perhaps powering certain components with their own battery?"
Andrew,
I'm really encouraged that you've taken the initiative to dive in and really start to learning about the GPS unit. And you even got one (dare I ask where?!) Keep up the excellent work! :thumb:
I've been mulling over Sylvie's comments about battery power. Let me summarize my thoughs simply:
1) Our battery has to power the robot's (two? three?) servomotors, the BOE circuitboard, all the sensors, the datalogger, the primary altimeter, and the back-up altimeter... everything that's on the ASP-2 (*have I forgotten anything?) The shortwave transmitter has it's own battery.
2) The battery that powers the ASP-2 is the red 9.2 volt, 3,000 mAH (milliamp-hour) rechargeable NiCd battery.
3) The power supply (9.2 NiCD battery??) has to fit on the robot. What are the GPS' power requirements?
QUESTION: Where will we mount the battery? Will it fit in the robot? Like Syvlie said, it has to have enough power to last throughtout the mission, and longer.
"...the first issue I've encountered in doing so is the lack of variable space when I tried to make a simple GPS movement program. The sample program, which simply displays current information such as date, time, and latitude and longitude takes up nearly the entire EEPROM of the BS2."
Andrew,
Would we have enough EEPROM space if we use a BS2e stamp? As a top prioritiy I suggest that we make a back-up ASP-2/ ASP-bot right away so you have one to take home and program.
Thoughts?
Mr.Kibler
**How did the SSAT test go? How did you feelcoming out of it?
If the power drain is too large, what would you suggest to mitigate the issue? A battery with a larger capacity, or perhaps powering certain components with their own battery?
I think it's probably best to power the servos (the robot's movement) from a separate battery (keeping in mind that the various systems need to share a common ground). Otherwise your 3000 mAH battery is probably plenty large enough for everything else.
The power requirements for things like motors or servos far outweigh the requirements for things like microprocessors, memory, sensors, and LEDs. When you introduce movement to your mission, you step into a new realm of power requirements.
I have worked through most of the exercises in the What's A Microcontroller? and have a good basic understanding of the concepts discussed in it. Dylan, I believe you have read through the majority of the book too, is that correct? I can comfortably program a movement routine, but do not know where to even begin with integrating a GPS with it.
I recently acquired a Parallax GPS receiver module and have been trying to learn as much as I can about how it functions and possible ways to have it (simply) be integrated with the current version of the ASP's program. However, the first issue I've encountered in doing so is the lack of variable space when I tried to make a simple GPS movement program. The sample program, which simply displays current information such as date, time, and latitude and longitude takes up nearly the entire EEPROM of the BS2. However, I'm wondering what might be possible to remove from the sample program to free up memory -- that is, if the sample program's components are even needed at all. It's my understanding that the GPS module has two modes, a "smart" mode and a raw mode, that outputs just raw data in NMEA format. It's also my understanding that when in smart mode, the module only outputs data when it's requested (by querying it with SERIN/SEROUT). If that's the case, would it be possible to do something like this:
Query current latitude/longitude
Compare with destination latitude/longitude
Calculate required heading
Rotate rover to required heading
Move forward for set amount of time.
Repeat process to ensure accuracy.
Halt process when within x degrees of destination coordinates.
That memory issue will be a difficult one, yes. Clever re-use of variables (as you've been doing already, right?) will help. Now, for all I know, there simply isn't enough EEPROM space to do all of the things you're trying to do at once. You might be able to add external EEPROM to hold the GPS data, or there might be some other solution. I think you have to try it and see. Tracy may have some good ideas as well (he always does...).
IAnother thought that comes to mind is how exactly the current heading would be calculated. From what I understand, it is not possible to determine heading from the global positioning system, rather, it's only possible when you have two sets of coordinates, at which point the heading can be determined as a function of the software. Is this accurate? If this is the case, does that mean that something such as a compass sensor in addition to the GPS module would be required to accurately and efficiently navigate?
I think that the answer to that is "Yes", although again it may be possible to forget about knowing the heading, and just moving, rechecking the distance to "home", and if it's further, turning some number of degrees, and trying again, in order to get a grip on the right heading through good old fashioned trial-and-error.
A GPS CAN know the heading if it is moving. You could have a subroutine in which you simply moved in a straight line until you got a good reading on the heading from GPS, and then work with that. You might need to do it a few times, as it is very difficult to turn a precise number of degrees.
New Hampshire Space Grant Consortium pledges $1,000 to this years project !
Read on:
Dear Mark-
Thank you for your letter and description of your space activities - impressive indeed! We at New Hampshire Space Grant would like to help. We will pledge $1000 towards the costs of your next launch in Nevada.
You can access these funds either by having your school invoice us with a short description of the purpose of the funds, or you can submit a travel expense voucher (available from us) for travel expenses you incur. Any detailed questions about funding should be referred to Linda Tibbetts (cc'd on this message).
We would like to know more about your activities - perhaps you can visit us at UNH some time. We could also arrange a tour, etc. of space/satellite facilities here for you and your students if that would be of interest. We definitely will want a short report on your project for inclusion in our reporting to NASA.
Best Wishes for another successful project.
Best Regards,
David
David S. Bartlett, PhD
Director, NH Space Grant Consortium
University of New Hampshire
Your comments voice my concerns about 1) having enough memory space and 2) having enough power. I agree that if we go with the GPS-powered robot we are indeed, stepping into a new realm. I don't want to dissuade the Rocketeers from going in this direction by I am hesitant. It almost seems too challenging, especially since we only have two team members returning this year (Andrew and Dylan.) You and Tracy know our collective skill set. Do you think it's do-able? As a starting I would simply like to see us get the robot moving once it lands. Then maybe we can consider the GPS-power robot?
What about simply stacking one BOE circuit board atop the other as two independent devices? One would operate the ASP-2-- it would essentially be the same as last year-- and the other could be used to move and steer the robot's driving base. Some of the Rocketeers could work on one BOE and while others worked on the GPS driving base. At the very least we wouldn't be losing any ground since the ASP-2 would still be gathering and storing data. I worry about physical space inside the payload bay if we do this, and I worry about having sufficient power for the board with the GPS on it. What other considerations and complications do you foresee?
Did Santa find his way to you? Did you get new toys for Christmas? Santa got me an iPod, which I'm really enjoying, It's so small and it does so much! If only we could get to the same level of technological proficiency and prowess with the ASP-bot...!
Thanks for the kudos about the NH Space Grant Consortium. And thanks for the tax dollars, certainly hard at work!
This is my Email to the team members on what to bring to Sunday's practice...
Dear Project Members,
This is the email pertaining to what to bring to our first team meeting.
At the moment, Andrew and I are discussing what we shall accomplish on our first day together on January the 16th, 1 - 4 P.M. at Mr. Kibler's house.
The only supplies that will be required by each of you, is a notebook, possibly in cased in a binder, (since all of you will eventually need a team binder), and a few writing utensils. You could also bring a sheet of questions you or your parents had, pertaining to the team, ARLISS or anything in relation to our team.
Look forward to meeting all of you,
Dylan Landry
I will post again soon with the agenda on what we wish to complete in our first team practice.
We currently have four members attending the practice, Andrew, Emily, Stephanie and I, along with a possible two more, Jacob Goldsberry and Ashley Becker. Ashley Becker is actually Tyler Becker's sister. Tyler was team captain two years ago, the year before Andrew. After the opening presentation, (the power point, video etc.), we will brake up into two teams consisting of two members each, (with spaces from Ashley and Jacob if they attend). With Andrew will be one team member accompanying him while he restores the movement portion of the program back into the ASP. The other member will be with me, as we discuss the advantages and disadvantages with adding GPS navigation to the rover, and construct a list.
*** Stephanie & Emily***
I am going to let both of you choose which group you feel most comfortable in. But remember, trying new things can feel uncomfortable, but almost always yields a positive outcome.
Your comments voice my concerns about 1) having enough memory space and 2) having enough power. I agree that if we go with the GPS-powered robot we are indeed, stepping into a new realm. I don't want to dissuade the Rocketeers from going in this direction by I am hesitant. It almost seems too challenging, especially since we only have two team members returning this year (Andrew and Dylan.) You and Tracy know our collective skill set. Do you think it's do-able? As a starting I would simply like to see us get the robot moving once it lands. Then maybe we can consider the GPS-power robot?
What about simply stacking one BOE circuit board atop the other as two independent devices? One would operate the ASP-2-- it would essentially be the same as last year-- and the other could be used to move and steer the robot's driving base. Some of the Rocketeers could work on one BOE and while others worked on the GPS driving base. At the very least we wouldn't be losing any ground since the ASP-2 would still be gathering and storing data. I worry about physical space inside the payload bay if we do this, and I worry about having sufficient power for the board with the GPS on it. What other considerations and complications do you foresee?
Did Santa find his way to you? Did you get new toys for Christmas? Santa got me an iPod, which I'm really enjoying, It's so small and it does so much! If only we could get to the same level of technological proficiency and prowess with the ASP-bot...!
Thanks for the kudos about the NH Space Grant Consortium. And thanks for the tax dollars, certainly hard at work!
Dinner's on,
Mark
:cool:
Mr. Kibler,
I hadn't previously thought of using two stacked boards with independent purposes. It sounds like a fantastic idea, should we choose to add navigation by GPS. Among other advantages, it would also allow the atmospheric research portion of the program to sample data more often. This is due to the likeliness of the movement subroutine consuming much of the stamp's time, since it can only complete one task at a time. In addition, it would allow us to work with far more I/O slots. As I remember, there are only one or two slots remaining on the ASP-II.
On another note, I believe I did pretty good on the SSAT last Saturday. I should be receiving the score report soon.
I'm glad to hear that you felt confident on Saturday's SSAT exam. That's usually a good indicator. Please keep me posted as soon as you get your scores. I mailed out the recommendations and I'm certain that you can get into Tabor and Haw'aii Academy, and maybe the others. Are you visiting Deerfield and Tabor this weekend...? I'd love to ride along. Have your Mom call me if she needs a chauffeur. Mrs. K might even come along (we'll leave Bandit at home.)
If we stack the circuit board we may be tight on space inside the payload bay. The BOE-bot with treads barely fits right now. From that standpoint it would certainly be an engineer challenge. We would also have to figure out where to put the battery for the GPS unit but I'm up for a challenge if you can navigate the programming. We could maybe downsize the battery on the ASP-2 to buy ourselves some physical space...? This would be a good way to start with the new team members: have them work on one 'layer' circuit board while you and someone else (who?) work on the GPS unit. I'm seeing the need to make another ASP-2 right away. Maybe we should make that a priority...?
Thoughts, anyone, on how to best approach this challenge? (Hey! Where's Dr. Allen?! )
How about all that SNOW we got today? 19 inches in our back yard, and that's with no drifting whatsover. Sylvie would feel right at home. It almost feels like WISCONSIN here on New Hampshire, Sylvie! (we should be so lucky, right?)
Comments
Mr. Kibler,
You are very observant! That picture was taken quite a while ago. Just a few days ago I had the opportunity to fly a new Piper Sport aircraft on my birthday in Florida (see the picture below). It was much different than any other plane I've had the opportunity to fly before, namely because of it's small size and weight. I'm still studying to get my private pilots license, and I'll most likely be getting my student pilot certificate soon. Although, I still have much to learn.
~ Andrew
You could simply carry the ASP-3 robot up to 12,000 in your airplane and drop it out the window...! It would save us a trip to Nevada (but wait! That was the fun part of last year's project, wasn't it?)
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
I was wanting to ask you about your thoughts on our upcoming project.
What do you think about creating a rover, with the same functionality as last year's ASP II? Do you have any other project Ideas? We are at the stage where we acquire what project we wish to participate in, so any comment on this matter whatsoever is welcome.
Can't wait for your thoughts,
Dylan Landry
Does the bot have to both navigate by GPS AND do all the other stuff that it has done in previous flights? You're asking questions about whether or not you have room, both physical and in EEPROM for what is needed to add navigation. But of course if you remove some of the earlier stuff, you can make room, unless your plans require GPS to simply be added. You said "with the same functionality as last year's ASP II". What if you went back to the version from a year earlier (if necessary)?
Side comment: besides physical room and memory space, you also need to keep in mind that adding devices adds power drain. You will have to pay attention to both the lifetime of the batteries you're flying (that milliamp-Hour stuff we talked about last year) and also the moment-to-moment current draw (how many milliamps are required by your devices at any one time?). In particular, you need to be aware that motors of any sort (including those that move the bot) draw a LOT more power than sensors and LEDs and things like that.
I think that tackling both movement AND navigation will be quite a task. You have a BOE-Bot - have you worked through the exercises in the manual? You can make sure that you understand the issues around moving a robot with what you have already, and probably learn quite a bit about half of the programming you're going to need.
As for GPS navigation, reading current position from a GPS is not that difficult. A GPS simply sends out all of the GPS data as serial data on one wire. Your Stamp can read those data (SERIN...) into variables. With some clever programming, you could determine how far north, south, east, and west of your target base the Bot currently is. At that point, you either:
1 - need to figure out which direction is which (that is, if you're east of the base, which direction is west?), which of course would require a calibrated compass module, or
2 - come up with a routine for driving the Bot in a way that reduced the distance to the base (sort of an ongoing "drive a little, and then check if we're closer or further away, and adjust accordingly").
I think it would be educational for you to think about the pluses and minuses of these approaches.
I also think that whatever you can glean from other teams' work would help you a lot.
I don't know if Casey would like to join, but I was talking to Miranda Arris and she seems interested. Miranda might not be availabe during the entire summer as she usually goes to Georgia for atleast one week to visit family.I will try to meet with you and her if necessary. I am busy in Flex tomorrow, but is Thursday okay to meet with you?
~Steph
I am available Jan. 16th. I plan on bringing a notebook and binder, is there anything else I should bring? Other than the cookies that is! Also, Where would the meeting be held? I am looking forward to meeting everyone.
-Emily
If everyone is OK with it then, let's meet on the 16th from 1-4 PM at my house (8 Ray Road Dunbarton, as always.) Parents should plan on attending, especially if you are trying out for this year's team. I'd like to meet them and give them an overview of the ARLISS project, let them meet each other, and ask questions.
Dylan and Andrew, consider this our first team practice and prepare an agenda and a list of things we want to accomplish. Let's make this a working session. What do you want to accomplish (get the robot moving? start a back-up ASP-2 module?) E-mail your agenda to me and then we'll post it to the forum. I propose that the two of you start by making a presentation to the new team members and their parents. Sowing the ARLISS PowerPoint and the TV video would be great. I'll dive in after that while you meet with the team and start practice.
Emily and Stephanie: Understand that this is a try-out for you. You are being screened and assessed for interest, aptitude, curiosity, problem solving, creativity, reasoning, collaboration, and more. The team needs interested, capable, outgoing young scientists, not 'kids' that sit back and wait for instructions. Dive in and get involved and you just might be asked to join the team...!
Everyone, please confirm whether you CAN or CAN'T meet on January 16th.
Aim high,
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
When a Parallax product description says "End of life", what does that mean? Does it mean that they're discontinuing the product AND discontinuing product support? I was looking at a close-out 3-axis accelerometer.
Thanks, and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Mark
The product will sell until all of the current units are gone, then will no longer be available. This page describes what happens to support:
http://www.parallax.com/tabid/695/Default.aspx
On the other hand, there is still documentation for at least some of the discontinued products:
http://www.parallax.com/Store/DiscontinuedProducts/tabid/795/CategoryID/69/List/0/Level/a/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
If you download the documentation and save it carefully, you'll have it for as long as you need it.
What are your thoughts on the direction we're headed in this year ---->
MISSION:
1) Deploy a BOE-bot (or similar) with the ASP-2 platform mounted to the driving base.
2) Land the ASP-bot and have it move across the desert floor until it's retrieved. The data it collects on the desert floor will be considered baseline data, to be compared against the atmospheric data it measured and collects.
STRETCH MISSION (with emphasis on stretch, sicne we would be stretching our abilities-- resources-- time into uncharted territory... again!):
1) Land the ASP-bot and have it navigate itself back to base using GPS. The stretch mission wouldn't be started until
a) the ASP-bot (above) is ground tested and fully operational
b) we build and test a back-up ASP-bot.
Last September we had a wire break on the ASP-2 during the first flight. We had to return to the hotel, completely dismantle and clean the ASP, then solder ONE BROKEN WIRE before we could launch it again. We stayed up until well after midnight doing working on it. Valuable time was lost and a lesson was learned about the importance of redundancy and having a back-up device. :thumb:
Mark
:nerd:
Install a small video camera that transmits an image back to 'mission control' as the robot descends, and as it moves across the desert floor.
Mark
Mr. Kibler & Dylan,
I believe I can meet up on the 16th, I just have to ask my dad who is on a business trip right now. I would ask my mom, but she doesn't know what we have planned for anything. Would you mind if i get back to you later (It might be on this Sunday, the 9th)?
~Steph
That's fine. Just let everyone know here on the forum by this weekend whether you can or can't meet on Sunday, January 16th (1-4 PM.) This is the first team practice for returning team members. We'll be scoping out potential members for this year's team and so you attendance is important. Check with me at school if you have any questions.
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
I can definitely meet on January 16th from 1 to 4 PM. I've already talked with Dylan and we plan on preparing some sort of presentation for the possible new team members and their parents. I think a good starting point if we are serious about creating a rover would be to enable the movement subroutines in the program, which should be simple enough and a step in the right direction. Perhaps I will try to download, tweak and try running the latest version of the program on my BASIC Stamp Homework Board this evening. What are your thoughts, Dylan?
Andrew
Just confirming again that I can make it, I was wondering what I should bring to the meeting other than a notebook?
-Emily
Thanks for confiriming that you'll be at our first team practice on January 16th (1-4 PM at 8 Ray Road in Dunbarton). A parent (or two) will be attending with you, yes?
Please contact Dylan about what to bring to practice. He is this year's 'Student Project Lead' (team captain) and I like to delegate responsibility. I also want team members to learn to collaborate, epecially new team members with returning team members. Please come with a list of any questions you have, and ask your parent(s) to do the same.
From new team members who are essentially trying out for a spot on the team I'm looking for interest, aptitude, leadership, self-motivation, curiosity, and the desire to learn and apply new skills. I'm excited that you're interested and I look forward to your continued posts here on the forum. Keep up the good work!
Regards,
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Ideally, I think we would like to have a rover with the same atmospheric sampling functions as the ASP along with GPS navigation. Although I understand that this scenario is going to be a difficult one to achieve. At the moment, it seems that our primary goal is going to simply be to "reactivate" the movement subroutine of the current ASP program. However, being able to have the rover autonomously navigate to a preset location would be a great advantage, especially if we want to participate in the comeback competition.
If the power drain is too large, what would you suggest to mitigate the issue? A battery with a larger capacity, or perhaps powering certain components with their own battery?
I have worked through most of the exercises in the What's A Microcontroller? and have a good basic understanding of the concepts discussed in it. Dylan, I believe you have read through the majority of the book too, is that correct? I can comfortably program a movement routine, but do not know where to even begin with integrating a GPS with it.
I recently acquired a Parallax GPS receiver module and have been trying to learn as much as I can about how it functions and possible ways to have it (simply) be integrated with the current version of the ASP's program. However, the first issue I've encountered in doing so is the lack of variable space when I tried to make a simple GPS movement program. The sample program, which simply displays current information such as date, time, and latitude and longitude takes up nearly the entire EEPROM of the BS2. However, I'm wondering what might be possible to remove from the sample program to free up memory -- that is, if the sample program's components are even needed at all. It's my understanding that the GPS module has two modes, a "smart" mode and a raw mode, that outputs just raw data in NMEA format. It's also my understanding that when in smart mode, the module only outputs data when it's requested (by querying it with SERIN/SEROUT). If that's the case, would it be possible to do something like this:
- Query current latitude/longitude
- Compare with destination latitude/longitude
- Calculate required heading
- Rotate rover to required heading
- Move forward for set amount of time.
- Repeat process to ensure accuracy.
- Halt process when within x degrees of destination coordinates.
Another thought that comes to mind is how exactly the current heading would be calculated. From what I understand, it is not possible to determine heading from the global positioning system, rather, it's only possible when you have two sets of coordinates, at which point the heading can be determined as a function of the software. Is this accurate? If this is the case, does that mean that something such as a compass sensor in addition to the GPS module would be required to accurately and efficiently navigate?I apologize for my absence, for the following several weekends I will be very busy, and unable to post at that time.
"Dylan, I believe you have read through the majority of the book too, is that correct?"
Yes, I have read through a decent amount throughout the entire book. I will have to go back and review some of the commands used to access certain pin I/O's and to coordinate motor movement and such.
I will be sending out an email to the project group on what shall be brought to the meeting the 16th, tomorrow in the afternoon.
I will also be ordering a GPS unit to accommodate the parallax board that I own, and other potential components to be able to replicate some of the wiring layouts and such that we will be testing.
I can meet up on Sunday. I was wondering if you needed me to bring anything. Just let me know if you do need me to.
~ Steph
I'm glad to hear that you're coming on Sunday. Dylan just sent an e-mail detailing what everyone should bring. Let me know if you didn't get the e-mail.
DYLAN,
Please post the list of things people should bring on Sunday here on the forum.
Thanks,
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
"...the first issue I've encountered in doing so is the lack of variable space when I tried to make a simple GPS movement program. The sample program, which simply displays current information such as date, time, and latitude and longitude takes up nearly the entire EEPROM of the BS2."
Andrew,
Would we have enough EEPROM space if we use a BS2e stamp? As a top prioritiy I suggest that we make a back-up ASP-2/ ASP-bot right away so you have one to take home and program.
Thoughts?
Mr.Kibler
**How did the SSAT test go? How did you feelcoming out of it?
I think it's probably best to power the servos (the robot's movement) from a separate battery (keeping in mind that the various systems need to share a common ground). Otherwise your 3000 mAH battery is probably plenty large enough for everything else.
The power requirements for things like motors or servos far outweigh the requirements for things like microprocessors, memory, sensors, and LEDs. When you introduce movement to your mission, you step into a new realm of power requirements.
Great. Then you know as much as I do. <grin>
That memory issue will be a difficult one, yes. Clever re-use of variables (as you've been doing already, right?) will help. Now, for all I know, there simply isn't enough EEPROM space to do all of the things you're trying to do at once. You might be able to add external EEPROM to hold the GPS data, or there might be some other solution. I think you have to try it and see. Tracy may have some good ideas as well (he always does...).
I think that the answer to that is "Yes", although again it may be possible to forget about knowing the heading, and just moving, rechecking the distance to "home", and if it's further, turning some number of degrees, and trying again, in order to get a grip on the right heading through good old fashioned trial-and-error.
A GPS CAN know the heading if it is moving. You could have a subroutine in which you simply moved in a straight line until you got a good reading on the heading from GPS, and then work with that. You might need to do it a few times, as it is very difficult to turn a precise number of degrees.
New Hampshire Space Grant Consortium pledges $1,000 to this years project !
Read on:
Dear Mark-
Thank you for your letter and description of your space activities - impressive indeed! We at New Hampshire Space Grant would like to help. We will pledge $1000 towards the costs of your next launch in Nevada.
You can access these funds either by having your school invoice us with a short description of the purpose of the funds, or you can submit a travel expense voucher (available from us) for travel expenses you incur. Any detailed questions about funding should be referred to Linda Tibbetts (cc'd on this message).
We would like to know more about your activities - perhaps you can visit us at UNH some time. We could also arrange a tour, etc. of space/satellite facilities here for you and your students if that would be of interest. We definitely will want a short report on your project for inclusion in our reporting to NASA.
Best Wishes for another successful project.
Best Regards,
David
David S. Bartlett, PhD
Director, NH Space Grant Consortium
University of New Hampshire
Way to go, Rocketeers! :thumb:
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Paul
Your comments voice my concerns about 1) having enough memory space and 2) having enough power. I agree that if we go with the GPS-powered robot we are indeed, stepping into a new realm. I don't want to dissuade the Rocketeers from going in this direction by I am hesitant. It almost seems too challenging, especially since we only have two team members returning this year (Andrew and Dylan.) You and Tracy know our collective skill set. Do you think it's do-able? As a starting I would simply like to see us get the robot moving once it lands. Then maybe we can consider the GPS-power robot?
What about simply stacking one BOE circuit board atop the other as two independent devices? One would operate the ASP-2-- it would essentially be the same as last year-- and the other could be used to move and steer the robot's driving base. Some of the Rocketeers could work on one BOE and while others worked on the GPS driving base. At the very least we wouldn't be losing any ground since the ASP-2 would still be gathering and storing data. I worry about physical space inside the payload bay if we do this, and I worry about having sufficient power for the board with the GPS on it. What other considerations and complications do you foresee?
Did Santa find his way to you? Did you get new toys for Christmas? Santa got me an iPod, which I'm really enjoying, It's so small and it does so much! If only we could get to the same level of technological proficiency and prowess with the ASP-bot...!
Thanks for the kudos about the NH Space Grant Consortium. And thanks for the tax dollars, certainly hard at work!
Dinner's on,
Mark
:cool:
Dear Project Members,
This is the email pertaining to what to bring to our first team meeting.
At the moment, Andrew and I are discussing what we shall accomplish on our first day together on January the 16th, 1 - 4 P.M. at Mr. Kibler's house.
The only supplies that will be required by each of you, is a notebook, possibly in cased in a binder, (since all of you will eventually need a team binder), and a few writing utensils. You could also bring a sheet of questions you or your parents had, pertaining to the team, ARLISS or anything in relation to our team.
Look forward to meeting all of you,
Dylan Landry
I will post again soon with the agenda on what we wish to complete in our first team practice.
*** Stephanie & Emily***
I am going to let both of you choose which group you feel most comfortable in. But remember, trying new things can feel uncomfortable, but almost always yields a positive outcome.
Mr. Kibler,
I hadn't previously thought of using two stacked boards with independent purposes. It sounds like a fantastic idea, should we choose to add navigation by GPS. Among other advantages, it would also allow the atmospheric research portion of the program to sample data more often. This is due to the likeliness of the movement subroutine consuming much of the stamp's time, since it can only complete one task at a time. In addition, it would allow us to work with far more I/O slots. As I remember, there are only one or two slots remaining on the ASP-II.
On another note, I believe I did pretty good on the SSAT last Saturday. I should be receiving the score report soon.
Andrew
I'm glad to hear that you felt confident on Saturday's SSAT exam. That's usually a good indicator. Please keep me posted as soon as you get your scores. I mailed out the recommendations and I'm certain that you can get into Tabor and Haw'aii Academy, and maybe the others. Are you visiting Deerfield and Tabor this weekend...? I'd love to ride along. Have your Mom call me if she needs a chauffeur. Mrs. K might even come along (we'll leave Bandit at home.)
If we stack the circuit board we may be tight on space inside the payload bay. The BOE-bot with treads barely fits right now. From that standpoint it would certainly be an engineer challenge. We would also have to figure out where to put the battery for the GPS unit but I'm up for a challenge if you can navigate the programming. We could maybe downsize the battery on the ASP-2 to buy ourselves some physical space...? This would be a good way to start with the new team members: have them work on one 'layer' circuit board while you and someone else (who?) work on the GPS unit. I'm seeing the need to make another ASP-2 right away. Maybe we should make that a priority...?
Thoughts, anyone, on how to best approach this challenge? (Hey! Where's Dr. Allen?!
How about all that SNOW we got today? 19 inches in our back yard, and that's with no drifting whatsover. Sylvie would feel right at home. It almost feels like WISCONSIN here on New Hampshire, Sylvie! (we should be so lucky, right?)
Mr. Kibler
:cool: