I'm pleased to see everyone on the forum and to know that our project (next year's iteration) is alive and well. Some of the ideas are certainly intriguing but I have to wonder: are they beyond our reach? Please consider how often we met last year (not often enough) and how often you can commit to meeting this year. That will, in part determine how ambitious of a project we can, or should, pursue.
Keep in mind too, that some of the technical skills were beyond our ability level last year and that we had to recruit other team members-- Sylvie and Dr. Allen-- to "help' us complete the project. That's certainly good networking and, to some degree, good learning. But we have to caution ourselves not to rely on others to do our work, nor do we want them to feel like they are being used. That certainly is not my intent.
I want us to find a project that interests us, that we will learn from, and that we will see through to completion, with guidance and support from others. Let's think this through before we decide, but let's not take too long in deciding. The more time we have to build and program, the more we will get done, and sooner. I'd like to start meeting right after the start of the new year... if everyone else wants to.
I like Sylvie's idea of deploying a robot from the rocket; we're almost there right now because the ASP-2 program has robot software already there, waiting to be 'activated'. This seems like a natural starting point-- deploying an "ASP-2 robot", but it is, after all, your project. Let me know your thoughts and I'll try to get Stephanie logged on to the forum. I'll look for your replies. GOOD START to another project year, team!
I like Sylvie's idea of deploying a robot from the rocket; we're almost there right now because the ASP-2 program has robot software already there, waiting to be 'activated'. This seems like a natural starting point-- deploying an "ASP-2 robot", but it is, after all, your project. Let me know your thoughts and I'll try to get Stephanie logged on to the forum. I'll look for your replies. GOOD START to another project year, team!
Hmm. I think I was just responding to an idea that someone else had mentioned - I certainly can't take credit for the idea. At the very least, it was the brainchild of Bill Farrell at the Milwaukee School of Engineering, who comes up with the tasks for the Wisconsin Space Grant Consortium contest each year. But I had the impression from posts in this thread that there are others doing it in your circles as well.
Perhaps apropos of nothing, I got one of the new Parallax S2 (Scribbler 2) robots yesterday: the new Propeller chip-powered ones. It's a thing of beauty, and very educational.
Look back in the forum and locate some of our last ASP-2 programs. Open one up and look at the bottom of the program. You'll see some "movement" subroutines that are 'commented out' (shut off by using an apostrophe ' at the very start of the program command line.)
This program subroutine was written to make our NASA robot move when it landed. The NASA robot also was designed to measure and record CO2, etc. Since the ASP-2 doesn't have a robot (yet) we 'commented out' the movement commands but them there in case we want to use them by mounting the ASP-2 on a robot. Do we want to do this a a project...?
What do you mean by this? What is the program capable of?
Dylan,
As Mr. Kibler has explained, the ASP's program is actually derived from Phidippides', the robot we launched at the NASA Student Launch Initiative. If I recall correctly, the movement subroutine currently located in the program is pseudo-autonomous. It moves forward one "unit", back a third, turns clockwise, and stops to collect data, repeating this process until the robot is recovered and turned off. In theory, it should be simple to activate again if we were to launch an atmospheric data-recording rover. Of course, do you want it to simply rove around, or do you think integrating a remotely controlled system, or perhaps a GPS guided one would be more beneficial? I think we have many options (and previous experience) if we choose to launch a robot. Not to mention, we were strongly encouraged by AeroPAC to design and launch a rover, as well. What are your thoughts?
Mr. Kibler,
That does seem to be a likely candidate for our project of choice. One question though, where would the robot be mounted? I remember that we only had a limited amount of space left between the ASP II and the parachute, and not much room on the actual payload.
When are the new member(s) going to come online? It would be great to hear from them for the first time.
The ASP-2 circuit board is mounted on a metal Parallax BOE-Bot platform, which we have. It also has "tank" treads = which would make it move slowly (see attached picture.) The BOE-bot/ ASP-2 on treads "just" fits inside the rocket payload tube that we used last year, but it's tight, and there's limited room for a parachute.
We could hybrid-ize the robot-- take the treads off and add wheels, etc.-- but there's still little or no room for adding sensors (I'm thinking GPS navigation) to the circuit board... But we're thinking and talking in the right direction. What do you think Tracy, Sylvie?
Andrew and Dylan - I sent you Stephanie's e-mail address by e-mail. Please contact her and get her active on the forum if she wants to be on the project team. I'm also "considering" Becker's 8th grade sister, Ashley as a "possible" team member.
GPS navigation may not have the precision that you need. You should check that out before you go too far down that path. Some kind of beacon to home in on might be a better choice, though I couldn't say that I have any idea how you'd do that.
The desert is flat with a "crinkled" surface. It's dusty, with fine talcum powder dust... see photo.
The "come-back competition" part of ARLISS challenges teams to deploy a robot that navigates itself back to a "touch point", basically a 1 meter tall stake driven into the ground near the launch pad. Teams use the coordinates of the stake as their GPS go-to ("drive to") location. It's challenging for sure, especially if your 'bot lands 3-4 km. away as many robots do.
Hi Everyone,
My name is Emily. I go to Sant Bani school in Sanbornton and I love science. I first heard about this team from Andrew last year when he presented to our school. I found it amazing that kids our age were collecting data and launching rockets. I am so excited to have the chance to take part in such a unique opportunity. I've always loved science and I have always loved to learn new things.
-Emily
Hi Emily, and welcome to the ARLISS rocketry team forum!
I'm Mr. Kibler and I'm the team mentor. I'm a science teacher at Weare Middle School and Andrew was on the rocktery last year, and in previous years. I'm glad to hear that you're interested in possibly being selected for next year's team. Talk with Andrew and he will give you all kinds of information about the team and the project.
I encourage you to read through the ARLISS forum to get a sense of who we are, what we do, and the cool places we've gone. We are, by no means, a "club". Rather, the team is a small group of bright and highly motivated students and mentors. Hopefully you are a like-minded student scientist.
I hope that "Sylvie" and Dr. Allen will log on and welcome you to the team/forum. They too, are mentors, and both are much more skilled than I am. So our team is really spread across the country like a real NASA project team. "Sylvie" is in Wisconsim and Dr. Allen is in California.
Check in often, read, and ask questions. I am looking for students who demonstrate initiative, interest, aptitude, and a positive atttude. You've taken a first big step in logging on. Your continued interest will prove that you're truly interested. Please ask you parents to e-mail me if they have any questions.
Mr. Kibler-
Thank you for welcoming me. I've been reading up on ARLISS, and I know a little bit from Andrew's presentation. Has the team come up with a project yet? I have learned that ARLISS is a Stanford organization. Will any of our project make it into orbit? or are we working towards that? Is the team participating is the CanSat challenge or Open class? I feel like the Payload that Andrew showed in his presentation was Open class. I was wondering if there is anything I should look up? Also seeing as I'm trying out for the team I was wondering what my role would be.
-Emily
Has the team come up with a project yet?
That is the decision that we are coming up on shortly. Once we have
a pretty good idea of who is on the team, we will start on deciding what project to participate in.
Will any of our project make it into orbit?
This all depends on what project we chose. The ARLISS project we did last year was meant for a low-orbiting satellite, making it to around 10,000 feet. It didn't actually orbit the earth, the rocket just projected the project into the atmosphere enough so that it had a significant amount of time to complete its own objectives.
Is the team participating is the CanSat challenge or Open class?
I do believe that one year the team did participate in the CanSat challenge, not 100% sure though. Also I would think that we did do open class last year and the year before. I am unsure of this, but Andrew would know more then I.
Also seeing as I'm trying out for the team I was wondering what my role would be.
This is something that we decide close to the end of our project. When i was assigned to launch preparation and launch, it was only about 2-3, possibly 4 weeks before we went out to Nevada.
On things you should look up,
Possibly challenges that seem like good opportunities for us to act upon. By this I mean any projects that we could participate in. Besides that, I think we just have to wait for a basic idea of who is on the team before we do anything major.
As I have recently discussed with Dylan, the project is leaning in the direction of designing and building a rover. Whether the mission is designed by us, or participating in the comeback competition at ARLISS, or even perhaps something entirely different (NASA Centennial Challenge Night Rover?).
Will any of our project make it into orbit?
This is certainly a possibility in the near future. The ARLISS program that we participated in is specifically for designing, building and launching satellite prototypes. Although it is certainly possible to launch a project into orbit, as a team, we simply don't have that capability yet. Doing so requires much knowledge and funding, that we do not yet possess.
Is the team participating is the CanSat challenge or Open class?
"Open class" is the size/format of the CanSat payload, if I'm not mistaken, although it would be best to refer to the ARLISS website for more information on the various projects launched each year.
Also seeing as I'm trying out for the team I was wondering what my role would be.
Typically, team members don't have assigned roles until the launch of the project. It is also important to understand that the team completes much work outside of practice, via e-mail and the forum and that meeting time together is limited.
On things you should look up
Dylan answered this one perfectly -- keep researching what ARLISS is all about, as well as looking into possible projects for the team.
Andrew, Dylan-
Thank you for answering my questions. I was looking at the NASA night rover challenge, and I think its extremely fascinating. I really like the idea of working with reusable energy. I also Really like the idea of launching with ARLISS because you are familiar with it, and we can make a rover of our own purpose.
-Emily
While recently watching NASA television, I came across a project option that I believe we looked at and considered quite a while ago. The project, nicknamed Balloon Sat, involves launching a lightweight payload via a balloon into the thermosphere, at altitudes of 90,000 to 120,000 feet. Other than the obvious difference of using a balloon instead of a rocket, there are many similarities between a balloon satellite project and ARLISS. I'm just putting this out here as a possible option. The project is hosted by Arizona Near Space Research and The University of Arizona. What are your thoughts?
Not to be snotty, or a downer, but making it into orbit would take quite a bit more money, time, and expertise than I think anyone here has. "Orbit" is not simply a matter of altitude. You could go straight up for thousands of miles, run out of fuel, and come crashing right back down without ever having been in orbit. Entering orbit requires a LOT of horizontal velocity - over 17,000 miles per hour, in fact. Take a look at the section titled "Understanding Orbits" on this page:
Rockets entering orbit rise more-or-less vertically for a while largely in order to rise above most of the atmosphere, to reduce drag from air friction. They do tilt over at some point, and expend a LOT of energy on horizontal velocity, like the "Newton's Cannonball" described in the Wikipedia page. Once they gain enough horizontal velocity they will travel sideways at a high enough rate that as they fall towards the Earth (due to gravity), the Earth's surface below them "falls" away fast enough that they don't ever hit it. Of course you have to be high enough, again, that air friction is negligible. If you were shooting for orbit around a body that had no atmosphere, that part wouldn't be necessary, and you could orbit only a few feet from the surface (as long as you didn't hit any obstacles).
Getting a high power rocket up to 1000 miles per hour is quite a feat, and one you're not likely to achieve with any interesting payload. Getting it going much faster than that would almost certainly require the kind of total impulse and burn time that move it out of the realm of high power rocketry and into the realm of amateur rocketry, which is a whole 'nother level of regulation and of course expense and expertise.
Now if you DO have that kind of funding, please let me know. I'll suddenly be a LOT more interested in your project, and I'll come visit next month.
I think that using a balloon is a very attractive option. W should look into it more carefully. From what I understand we would be able to reach new heights with slower decent rates. That means more data points. The question would be if we need our payload to go to such heights, am I correct?
Hi everyone,
This is Stephanie. I have spoken to some of you through email.Mr. Kibler had recommended the site to me, but there were multiple complications... Anyways I have been trying to get on often to read through about the project, since I couldn't find how to post anything, until today (Thanks by the way Mr. Kibler). I'm still trying to get the hang of this website. Would you guys mind giving me a few updates about the project?
It's good to see you both on the forum and I'm glad that you're interested in being on the project team. Please keep reading the forum to get a better idea of what we've done in previous years and what we might do this coming year. This is the place where we "meet" to discuss the project with our teammates and mentors, Sylvie and Dr. Allen.
Right now we're in the brainstoriming phase of the project. We're simply kicking ideas around for next year's project and no idea is a bad idea. Some ideas not be attainable (because of funding limitations, size, weight, the limits of our expertise or meeting time, etc.) but no idea is a bad idea. So pleae contribute your ideas.
Personally I like the idea of deploying a robot from the rocket and then having it move across the desert floor measuring temperature, carbon dioxide conentration, etc. This is where we started three years ago with our NASA-SLI project but we lacked the know-how to do bring our project to fruition. The ARLISS project has essentially been an extension of the NASA project. Since then we have learned some of the necessary skills and we've been fortunate to network with two excellent mentors who know more about programming than I do. As a result we've designed, built, and launched a small satellite prototype (the ASP-2) that measures and records temperature, carbon dioxide conentration, time, altitude, etc.
There are a few reasons why I like the idea of deploying the robot:
1) We already have a Parallax (BOE-BOT) robot
2) We also have parts and other materials with which to modify the robot
3) We already have a circuit board that measures and records temperature, CO2, etc. - The circuit board is last year's ASP-2 'satellite.'
4) The core of the program to make the robot move is already written (see my post above.) All we have to do is activate and modify the program.
5) We have a reasonable amount of knowledge on how Parallax circuit boards work.
6) We have some excellent mentors who are familiar with the project because they helped design, build and program it.
I like the idea of GPS navigation once the robot lands, but keep in mind Andrew and Dylan, that the circuit board is nearly full already. There is little physical space left to add any new components (but I could be wrong.)
I like the direction that things are going and I like how you are all thinking and talking. Let's keep the discussion alive, and keep the ideas coming. Sylvie and Tracy, what are your thoughts?
What does everyone think about having a preliminary team meeting sometime after the holidays? It would include Dylan (this year's Student Project Lead), Andrew, Emily Rose, Stephanie, me, and your parents? Tracy and Sylvie, you're welcome to join us!
Personally I like the idea of deploying a robot from the rocket and then having it move across the desert floor measuring temperature, carbon dioxide conentration, etc. This is where we started three years ago with our NASA-SLI project but we lacked the know-how to do bring our project to fruition. The ARLISS project has essentially been an extension of the NASA project. Since then we have learned some of the necessary skills and we've been fortunate to network with two excellent mentors who know more about programming than I do. As a result we've designed, built, and launched a small satellite prototype (the ASP-2) that measures and records temperature, carbon dioxide conentration, time, altitude, etc.
There are a few reasons why I like the idea of deploying the robot:
1) We already have a Parallax (BOE-BOT) robot
2) We also have parts and other materials with which to modify the robot
3) We already have a circuit board that measures and records temperature, CO2, etc. - The circuit board is last year's ASP-2 'satellite.'
4) The core of the program to make the robot move is already written (see my post above.) All we have to do is activate and modify the program.
5) We have a reasonable amount of knowledge on how Parallax circuit boards work.
6) We have some excellent mentors who are familiar with the project because they helped design, build and program it.
I like the idea of GPS navigation once the robot lands, but keep in mind Andrew and Dylan, that the circuit board is nearly full already. There is little physical space left to add any new components (but I could be wrong.)
I like the direction that things are going and I like how you are all thinking and talking. Let's keep the discussion alive, and keep the ideas coming. Sylvie and Tracy, what are your thoughts?
Mr. Kibler,
I too agree with moving in the direction of deploying a robot, similar to the one we launched at the NASA Student Launch Initiative, but with the addition of recording atmospheric data, as in the ASP-II. From previous experience, I dislike attributing the words easy or simple. However, I would say that since we are essentially combining the NASA SLI robot with the ASP-II, and that the programming and hardware aspect of it is very much complete, that the entire process should be straightforward. If we were to go this route for a project, I would make the essentials such as simple movement and data recording our primary goal, but if time, knowledge, and budget allows, I believe a GPS-guided robot would be a challenging yet rewarding goal within our reach. I believe the "physical space" constraint will involve the number of I/O slots available on the BASIC Stamp 2E / BOE circuit board. However, additional research will be most likely need to be completed before we even consider this. How much time is going to be required to implement it (hardware, programming, etc.)? I suppose a better question to ask and perhaps answer at our next meeting would be, is a GPS-guided robot going to be beneficial to the mission goal? What is the mission goal?
What does everyone think about having a preliminary team meeting sometime after the holidays? It would include Dylan (this year's Student Project Lead), Andrew, Emily Rose, Stephanie, me, and your parents? Tracy and Sylvie, you're welcome to join us!
That sounds like a fantastic idea to me! It would give us an opportunity to discuss possible projects, and meet the possible new team members for the first time.
Mr. Kibler, Andrew -
I agree that this would be a logical next step for the project because we already have the robot, a lot of the programming, and minor modifications to make. Also I would love to meet after the holidays, I know my mom would love to come and meet everyone as well as I would.
Happy Holidays
-Emily
Mr. Kibler,
Sorry for my long absence, I have been busy over the Christmas holiday. I think that deploying a rover this project year would be the next logical step. And like how Andrew mentioned about the physical space constraints, it would be challenging to be able to allow for the extra components we would need, like the driving chassis etc... But that is a problem we should put aside for the moment. I do not see anyone disagreeing with the idea of participating in ARLISS with a rover, but I think we should allow for the time before our first meeting to be somewhat alloted to exploring our possibilities a little bit further. We could research more in depth the challenge at ARLISS to use GPS navigation to have your rover travel to the designated location. To see if that should be our mission goal or not.
Mr. Kibler,
Sorry for my long absence, I have been busy over the Christmas holiday. I think that deploying a rover this project year would be the next logical step. And like how Andrew mentioned about the physical space constraints, it would be challenging to be able to allow for the extra components we would need, like the driving chassis etc... But that is a problem we should put aside for the moment. I do not see anyone disagreeing with the idea of participating in ARLISS with a rover, but I think we should allow for the time before our first meeting to be somewhat alloted to exploring our possibilities a little bit further. We could research more in depth the challenge at ARLISS to use GPS navigation to have your rover travel to the designated location. To see if that should be our mission goal or not.
I apologize for my absence,
Dylan Landry
It seems that I haven't posted in a while either. I've also been busy with the holidays, and today is my birthday! When you mentioned researching GPS navigation to send the rover to a predetermined location, are you referring to AeroPAC's comeback competition? If so, I suppose some additional constraints to research would be battery life. When we launched the ASP-II last September you may recall that our project landed several miles away for both flights. Although I don't know the exact distance, it's possible that the rover could land much closer, or much farther. In either case, that would be something we would have to prepare for. Any other thoughts on this subject?
Happy birthday, Andrew! :thumb: And Happy New Year, Rocketeers!
I'm glad to see that some project team members are conscientious about posting to the forum.
Let's think the idea of launching a 'roving robot' through, research the ARLISS requirements, and apply what we know and what we we've learned.
If we're thinking about doing the 'ARLISS Comeback Competetion' battery life, while a concern, is the low on the list (in my humble opinion.) What we need to look at more critically is, I think,:
1) Whether we have the technical skills to program the robot to navigate by GPS. Do we? Keep in mind that more than half of your team members will be 'newbies' again this year!
2) Whether there is enough physical room on the BOE circuit board to install the GPS unit--- and any other hardware we might need to make it work. Is there space? Do we need to install other hardware?
Think back to last year when we learned that we had to install-- and build-- the analog to digital converter circuit board. It was great learning for sure, but it did take lots of time and we had to acquire new knowledge and skills.
3) Finally, is there EEPROM space available?
Dylan, I suggest that lead your team in researching these questions. Consider looking at the Japanese team's websites to see what they've done. I think more than one international team used Parallax hardware and software. I would encourage both you and Andrew to e-mail these teams and pick their brains. Let me know what you find out.
Now, which 'newbie' will post first: Stephanie or Emily Rose? Who else do you guys propose for this year's project team? I'm open to ideas, but not for too long. We need to get up and going sooner rather than later.
Mr. Kibler,
I was thinking about what you asked me, about who should go on the team and I've been thinking about it. I was wondering if you were still looking for another girl, because if so I think that you might like to ask Casey P. but just get back to me on it, I mean if you do or not, because there are also other people that I have in mind if you want to hear my opinion.
Happy New Year! Thanks for your suggestion. Let's talk more about the possibility of having Casey P. on the project team, and others you seem to have in mind. Is Casey really interested in rockets and satellites and robots...? Is she interested enough to make a commitment to the team and to learn some fairly challenging skills and concepts? Are you? We could invite her to our organizational meeting if you think she might be a strong candidate. Let's talk at school sometime this week. Please come and see me at flex block or during advisory.
1) Whether we have the technical skills to program the robot to navigate by GPS. Do we? Keep in mind that more than half of your team members will be 'newbies' again this year!
Although our understanding of the PBASIC programming language is becoming more proficient, relative to where we are when we started, I do not believe we have enough experience to design this component of the program on our own. However, perhaps someone else can comment on what exactly would be required to complete such a program. I have some preconceived ideas, but I really do not have enough experience to judge where we are and where we should be.
2) Whether there is enough physical room on the BOE circuit board to install the GPS unit--- and any other hardware we might need to make it work. Is there space? Do we need to install other hardware?
I believe now would be an excellent time to research the various GPS units that Parallax has for sale, and take a look at their documentation, specification sheets and perhaps the sample programs to gain a better understanding of how everything works, and hopefully assess our capabilities. Questions regarding space and hardware should answer themselves if we do our research correctly, but I'm sure some other experienced members of the forum can give us some advice as well.
3) Finally, is there EEPROM space available?
From where we left off last year, our final program only took a small portion of the BS2e's EEPROM. It may or may not fit on the "standard" BS2, which contains a significantly smaller EEPROM. Although if I remember correctly, it just barely fit.
For our newer team members, do you know what the EEPROM is and what function it serves? If not, this may be something you want to familiarize yourself with.
Dylan, I suggest that lead your team in researching these questions. Consider looking at the Japanese team's websites to see what they've done. I think more than one international team used Parallax hardware and software. I would encourage both you and Andrew to e-mail these teams and pick their brains. Let me know what you find out.
This seems like a fantastic way to further explore our opportunities. I would be glad to contact some of these teams, but I'm wondering if either you, Mr. Kibler, or Dylan might know which teams would be best to contact and why? As you mentioned, I'm certain that at least one or two teams were also utilizing Parallax hardware. If feasible, it may be logical to contact those teams as soon as possible to learn about their projects and to see if they have any advice for us.
Thanks for the birthday wishes, and happy new year to everyone!
Comments
I'm pleased to see everyone on the forum and to know that our project (next year's iteration) is alive and well. Some of the ideas are certainly intriguing but I have to wonder: are they beyond our reach? Please consider how often we met last year (not often enough) and how often you can commit to meeting this year. That will, in part determine how ambitious of a project we can, or should, pursue.
Keep in mind too, that some of the technical skills were beyond our ability level last year and that we had to recruit other team members-- Sylvie and Dr. Allen-- to "help' us complete the project. That's certainly good networking and, to some degree, good learning. But we have to caution ourselves not to rely on others to do our work, nor do we want them to feel like they are being used. That certainly is not my intent.
I want us to find a project that interests us, that we will learn from, and that we will see through to completion, with guidance and support from others. Let's think this through before we decide, but let's not take too long in deciding. The more time we have to build and program, the more we will get done, and sooner. I'd like to start meeting right after the start of the new year... if everyone else wants to.
I like Sylvie's idea of deploying a robot from the rocket; we're almost there right now because the ASP-2 program has robot software already there, waiting to be 'activated'. This seems like a natural starting point-- deploying an "ASP-2 robot", but it is, after all, your project. Let me know your thoughts and I'll try to get Stephanie logged on to the forum. I'll look for your replies. GOOD START to another project year, team!
:nerd:
~ M. Kibler
Hmm. I think I was just responding to an idea that someone else had mentioned - I certainly can't take credit for the idea. At the very least, it was the brainchild of Bill Farrell at the Milwaukee School of Engineering, who comes up with the tasks for the Wisconsin Space Grant Consortium contest each year. But I had the impression from posts in this thread that there are others doing it in your circles as well.
Perhaps apropos of nothing, I got one of the new Parallax S2 (Scribbler 2) robots yesterday: the new Propeller chip-powered ones. It's a thing of beauty, and very educational.
Look back in the forum and locate some of our last ASP-2 programs. Open one up and look at the bottom of the program. You'll see some "movement" subroutines that are 'commented out' (shut off by using an apostrophe ' at the very start of the program command line.)
This program subroutine was written to make our NASA robot move when it landed. The NASA robot also was designed to measure and record CO2, etc. Since the ASP-2 doesn't have a robot (yet) we 'commented out' the movement commands but them there in case we want to use them by mounting the ASP-2 on a robot. Do we want to do this a a project...?
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
FROM PROGRAM:
'
[ servos ]
'movement
' PAUSE 100
' iobyte=mcf GOSUB morse
' GOSUB forward
' iobyte=mcb GOSUB morse
' GOSUB backward
' iobyte=mcc GOSUB morse
' GOSUB turnclockwise
' iobyte=mcf GOSUB morse
' GOSUB forward
' iobyte=mcb GOSUB morse
' GOSUB backward
' iobyte=mcw GOSUB morse
' GOSUB turnCOUNTERclockwise
' iobyte=mce GOSUB morse
' PAUSE 1000
' RETURN
'forward
' FOR motormovementtime = 0 TO 120
' PULSOUT servoL, 850 ' move forward 1
' PULSOUT servoR, 650
' PAUSE 20
' NEXT
' RETURN
'backward ' move backward 13
' FOR motormovementtime = 0 TO 60
' PULSOUT servoL, 650
' PULSOUT servoR, 850
' PAUSE 20
' NEXT
' RETURN
'turnclockwise ' rotate clockwise
' FOR motormovementtime = 0 TO 30
' PULSOUT servoL, 850
' PULSOUT servoR, 850
' PAUSE 20
' NEXT
' RETURN
'turnCOUNTERclockwise ' rotate clockwise
' FOR motormovementtime = 0 TO 30
' PULSOUT servoR, 650
' PULSOUT servoL, 650
' PAUSE 20
' NEXT
' RETURN
'
Dylan,
As Mr. Kibler has explained, the ASP's program is actually derived from Phidippides', the robot we launched at the NASA Student Launch Initiative. If I recall correctly, the movement subroutine currently located in the program is pseudo-autonomous. It moves forward one "unit", back a third, turns clockwise, and stops to collect data, repeating this process until the robot is recovered and turned off. In theory, it should be simple to activate again if we were to launch an atmospheric data-recording rover. Of course, do you want it to simply rove around, or do you think integrating a remotely controlled system, or perhaps a GPS guided one would be more beneficial? I think we have many options (and previous experience) if we choose to launch a robot. Not to mention, we were strongly encouraged by AeroPAC to design and launch a rover, as well. What are your thoughts?
Andrew
That does seem to be a likely candidate for our project of choice. One question though, where would the robot be mounted? I remember that we only had a limited amount of space left between the ASP II and the parachute, and not much room on the actual payload.
When are the new member(s) going to come online? It would be great to hear from them for the first time.
-Dylan landry
The ASP-2 circuit board is mounted on a metal Parallax BOE-Bot platform, which we have. It also has "tank" treads = which would make it move slowly (see attached picture.) The BOE-bot/ ASP-2 on treads "just" fits inside the rocket payload tube that we used last year, but it's tight, and there's limited room for a parachute.
We could hybrid-ize the robot-- take the treads off and add wheels, etc.-- but there's still little or no room for adding sensors (I'm thinking GPS navigation) to the circuit board... But we're thinking and talking in the right direction. What do you think Tracy, Sylvie?
Andrew and Dylan - I sent you Stephanie's e-mail address by e-mail. Please contact her and get her active on the forum if she wants to be on the project team. I'm also "considering" Becker's 8th grade sister, Ashley as a "possible" team member.
M. Kibler
:nerd:
What's the landing site terrain like?
The desert is flat with a "crinkled" surface. It's dusty, with fine talcum powder dust... see photo.
The "come-back competition" part of ARLISS challenges teams to deploy a robot that navigates itself back to a "touch point", basically a 1 meter tall stake driven into the ground near the launch pad. Teams use the coordinates of the stake as their GPS go-to ("drive to") location. It's challenging for sure, especially if your 'bot lands 3-4 km. away as many robots do.
Mark
:nerd:
My name is Emily. I go to Sant Bani school in Sanbornton and I love science. I first heard about this team from Andrew last year when he presented to our school. I found it amazing that kids our age were collecting data and launching rockets. I am so excited to have the chance to take part in such a unique opportunity. I've always loved science and I have always loved to learn new things.
-Emily
I'm Mr. Kibler and I'm the team mentor. I'm a science teacher at Weare Middle School and Andrew was on the rocktery last year, and in previous years. I'm glad to hear that you're interested in possibly being selected for next year's team. Talk with Andrew and he will give you all kinds of information about the team and the project.
I encourage you to read through the ARLISS forum to get a sense of who we are, what we do, and the cool places we've gone. We are, by no means, a "club". Rather, the team is a small group of bright and highly motivated students and mentors. Hopefully you are a like-minded student scientist.
I hope that "Sylvie" and Dr. Allen will log on and welcome you to the team/forum. They too, are mentors, and both are much more skilled than I am. So our team is really spread across the country like a real NASA project team. "Sylvie" is in Wisconsim and Dr. Allen is in California.
Check in often, read, and ask questions. I am looking for students who demonstrate initiative, interest, aptitude, and a positive atttude. You've taken a first big step in logging on. Your continued interest will prove that you're truly interested. Please ask you parents to e-mail me if they have any questions.
Welcome aboard!
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
mkibler@alumni.unity.edu
Thank you for welcoming me. I've been reading up on ARLISS, and I know a little bit from Andrew's presentation. Has the team come up with a project yet? I have learned that ARLISS is a Stanford organization. Will any of our project make it into orbit? or are we working towards that? Is the team participating is the CanSat challenge or Open class? I feel like the Payload that Andrew showed in his presentation was Open class. I was wondering if there is anything I should look up? Also seeing as I'm trying out for the team I was wondering what my role would be.
-Emily
That is the decision that we are coming up on shortly. Once we have
a pretty good idea of who is on the team, we will start on deciding what project to participate in.
Will any of our project make it into orbit?
This all depends on what project we chose. The ARLISS project we did last year was meant for a low-orbiting satellite, making it to around 10,000 feet. It didn't actually orbit the earth, the rocket just projected the project into the atmosphere enough so that it had a significant amount of time to complete its own objectives.
Is the team participating is the CanSat challenge or Open class?
I do believe that one year the team did participate in the CanSat challenge, not 100% sure though. Also I would think that we did do open class last year and the year before. I am unsure of this, but Andrew would know more then I.
Also seeing as I'm trying out for the team I was wondering what my role would be.
This is something that we decide close to the end of our project. When i was assigned to launch preparation and launch, it was only about 2-3, possibly 4 weeks before we went out to Nevada.
On things you should look up,
Possibly challenges that seem like good opportunities for us to act upon. By this I mean any projects that we could participate in. Besides that, I think we just have to wait for a basic idea of who is on the team before we do anything major.
-Dylan Landry
I believe Dylan has answered your questions, but I thought I'd add a few things...
As I have recently discussed with Dylan, the project is leaning in the direction of designing and building a rover. Whether the mission is designed by us, or participating in the comeback competition at ARLISS, or even perhaps something entirely different (NASA Centennial Challenge Night Rover?).
This is certainly a possibility in the near future. The ARLISS program that we participated in is specifically for designing, building and launching satellite prototypes. Although it is certainly possible to launch a project into orbit, as a team, we simply don't have that capability yet. Doing so requires much knowledge and funding, that we do not yet possess.
"Open class" is the size/format of the CanSat payload, if I'm not mistaken, although it would be best to refer to the ARLISS website for more information on the various projects launched each year.
http://www.arliss.org/p/rockets
Typically, team members don't have assigned roles until the launch of the project. It is also important to understand that the team completes much work outside of practice, via e-mail and the forum and that meeting time together is limited.
Dylan answered this one perfectly -- keep researching what ARLISS is all about, as well as looking into possible projects for the team.
Stay in touch.
-- Andrew
Thank you for answering my questions. I was looking at the NASA night rover challenge, and I think its extremely fascinating. I really like the idea of working with reusable energy. I also Really like the idea of launching with ARLISS because you are familiar with it, and we can make a rover of our own purpose.
-Emily
While recently watching NASA television, I came across a project option that I believe we looked at and considered quite a while ago. The project, nicknamed Balloon Sat, involves launching a lightweight payload via a balloon into the thermosphere, at altitudes of 90,000 to 120,000 feet. Other than the obvious difference of using a balloon instead of a rocket, there are many similarities between a balloon satellite project and ARLISS. I'm just putting this out here as a possible option. The project is hosted by Arizona Near Space Research and The University of Arizona. What are your thoughts?
http://www.ansr.org/
-- Andrew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit
Rockets entering orbit rise more-or-less vertically for a while largely in order to rise above most of the atmosphere, to reduce drag from air friction. They do tilt over at some point, and expend a LOT of energy on horizontal velocity, like the "Newton's Cannonball" described in the Wikipedia page. Once they gain enough horizontal velocity they will travel sideways at a high enough rate that as they fall towards the Earth (due to gravity), the Earth's surface below them "falls" away fast enough that they don't ever hit it. Of course you have to be high enough, again, that air friction is negligible. If you were shooting for orbit around a body that had no atmosphere, that part wouldn't be necessary, and you could orbit only a few feet from the surface (as long as you didn't hit any obstacles).
Getting a high power rocket up to 1000 miles per hour is quite a feat, and one you're not likely to achieve with any interesting payload. Getting it going much faster than that would almost certainly require the kind of total impulse and burn time that move it out of the realm of high power rocketry and into the realm of amateur rocketry, which is a whole 'nother level of regulation and of course expense and expertise.
Now if you DO have that kind of funding, please let me know. I'll suddenly be a LOT more interested in your project, and I'll come visit next month.
This is Stephanie. I have spoken to some of you through email.Mr. Kibler had recommended the site to me, but there were multiple complications... Anyways I have been trying to get on often to read through about the project, since I couldn't find how to post anything, until today (Thanks by the way Mr. Kibler). I'm still trying to get the hang of this website. Would you guys mind giving me a few updates about the project?
~Steph
It's good to see you both on the forum and I'm glad that you're interested in being on the project team. Please keep reading the forum to get a better idea of what we've done in previous years and what we might do this coming year. This is the place where we "meet" to discuss the project with our teammates and mentors, Sylvie and Dr. Allen.
Right now we're in the brainstoriming phase of the project. We're simply kicking ideas around for next year's project and no idea is a bad idea. Some ideas not be attainable (because of funding limitations, size, weight, the limits of our expertise or meeting time, etc.) but no idea is a bad idea. So pleae contribute your ideas.
Personally I like the idea of deploying a robot from the rocket and then having it move across the desert floor measuring temperature, carbon dioxide conentration, etc. This is where we started three years ago with our NASA-SLI project but we lacked the know-how to do bring our project to fruition. The ARLISS project has essentially been an extension of the NASA project. Since then we have learned some of the necessary skills and we've been fortunate to network with two excellent mentors who know more about programming than I do. As a result we've designed, built, and launched a small satellite prototype (the ASP-2) that measures and records temperature, carbon dioxide conentration, time, altitude, etc.
There are a few reasons why I like the idea of deploying the robot:
1) We already have a Parallax (BOE-BOT) robot
2) We also have parts and other materials with which to modify the robot
3) We already have a circuit board that measures and records temperature, CO2, etc. - The circuit board is last year's ASP-2 'satellite.'
4) The core of the program to make the robot move is already written (see my post above.) All we have to do is activate and modify the program.
5) We have a reasonable amount of knowledge on how Parallax circuit boards work.
6) We have some excellent mentors who are familiar with the project because they helped design, build and program it.
I like the idea of GPS navigation once the robot lands, but keep in mind Andrew and Dylan, that the circuit board is nearly full already. There is little physical space left to add any new components (but I could be wrong.)
I like the direction that things are going and I like how you are all thinking and talking. Let's keep the discussion alive, and keep the ideas coming. Sylvie and Tracy, what are your thoughts?
What does everyone think about having a preliminary team meeting sometime after the holidays? It would include Dylan (this year's Student Project Lead), Andrew, Emily Rose, Stephanie, me, and your parents? Tracy and Sylvie, you're welcome to join us!
Ho! Ho! Ho!
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Mr. Kibler,
I too agree with moving in the direction of deploying a robot, similar to the one we launched at the NASA Student Launch Initiative, but with the addition of recording atmospheric data, as in the ASP-II. From previous experience, I dislike attributing the words easy or simple. However, I would say that since we are essentially combining the NASA SLI robot with the ASP-II, and that the programming and hardware aspect of it is very much complete, that the entire process should be straightforward. If we were to go this route for a project, I would make the essentials such as simple movement and data recording our primary goal, but if time, knowledge, and budget allows, I believe a GPS-guided robot would be a challenging yet rewarding goal within our reach. I believe the "physical space" constraint will involve the number of I/O slots available on the BASIC Stamp 2E / BOE circuit board. However, additional research will be most likely need to be completed before we even consider this. How much time is going to be required to implement it (hardware, programming, etc.)? I suppose a better question to ask and perhaps answer at our next meeting would be, is a GPS-guided robot going to be beneficial to the mission goal? What is the mission goal?
That sounds like a fantastic idea to me! It would give us an opportunity to discuss possible projects, and meet the possible new team members for the first time.
Happy holidays!
Andrew
I agree that this would be a logical next step for the project because we already have the robot, a lot of the programming, and minor modifications to make. Also I would love to meet after the holidays, I know my mom would love to come and meet everyone as well as I would.
Happy Holidays
-Emily
I like the question you posed above. It's simple and it's elegant:
What IS our mission goal?
The answer to this question should drive the decisions we make.
I like the idea of meeting after the holidays too. Dylan, what are your thoughts?
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Sorry for my long absence, I have been busy over the Christmas holiday. I think that deploying a rover this project year would be the next logical step. And like how Andrew mentioned about the physical space constraints, it would be challenging to be able to allow for the extra components we would need, like the driving chassis etc... But that is a problem we should put aside for the moment. I do not see anyone disagreeing with the idea of participating in ARLISS with a rover, but I think we should allow for the time before our first meeting to be somewhat alloted to exploring our possibilities a little bit further. We could research more in depth the challenge at ARLISS to use GPS navigation to have your rover travel to the designated location. To see if that should be our mission goal or not.
I apologize for my absence,
Dylan Landry
It seems that I haven't posted in a while either. I've also been busy with the holidays, and today is my birthday! When you mentioned researching GPS navigation to send the rover to a predetermined location, are you referring to AeroPAC's comeback competition? If so, I suppose some additional constraints to research would be battery life. When we launched the ASP-II last September you may recall that our project landed several miles away for both flights. Although I don't know the exact distance, it's possible that the rover could land much closer, or much farther. In either case, that would be something we would have to prepare for. Any other thoughts on this subject?
Hope everyone's holidays are going well,
~ Andrew
I'm glad to see that some project team members are conscientious about posting to the forum.
Let's think the idea of launching a 'roving robot' through, research the ARLISS requirements, and apply what we know and what we we've learned.
If we're thinking about doing the 'ARLISS Comeback Competetion' battery life, while a concern, is the low on the list (in my humble opinion.) What we need to look at more critically is, I think,:
1) Whether we have the technical skills to program the robot to navigate by GPS. Do we? Keep in mind that more than half of your team members will be 'newbies' again this year!
2) Whether there is enough physical room on the BOE circuit board to install the GPS unit--- and any other hardware we might need to make it work. Is there space? Do we need to install other hardware?
Think back to last year when we learned that we had to install-- and build-- the analog to digital converter circuit board. It was great learning for sure, but it did take lots of time and we had to acquire new knowledge and skills.
3) Finally, is there EEPROM space available?
Dylan, I suggest that lead your team in researching these questions. Consider looking at the Japanese team's websites to see what they've done. I think more than one international team used Parallax hardware and software. I would encourage both you and Andrew to e-mail these teams and pick their brains. Let me know what you find out.
Now, which 'newbie' will post first: Stephanie or Emily Rose? Who else do you guys propose for this year's project team? I'm open to ideas, but not for too long. We need to get up and going sooner rather than later.
Happy New Year (and Happy Birthday, Andrew!),
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
I was thinking about what you asked me, about who should go on the team and I've been thinking about it. I was wondering if you were still looking for another girl, because if so I think that you might like to ask Casey P. but just get back to me on it, I mean if you do or not, because there are also other people that I have in mind if you want to hear my opinion.
~Steph
Happy New Year! Thanks for your suggestion. Let's talk more about the possibility of having Casey P. on the project team, and others you seem to have in mind. Is Casey really interested in rockets and satellites and robots...? Is she interested enough to make a commitment to the team and to learn some fairly challenging skills and concepts? Are you? We could invite her to our organizational meeting if you think she might be a strong candidate. Let's talk at school sometime this week. Please come and see me at flex block or during advisory.
Thanks!
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Cool picture Andrew. :cool: Is that you flying an airplane...?!
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
Although our understanding of the PBASIC programming language is becoming more proficient, relative to where we are when we started, I do not believe we have enough experience to design this component of the program on our own. However, perhaps someone else can comment on what exactly would be required to complete such a program. I have some preconceived ideas, but I really do not have enough experience to judge where we are and where we should be.
I believe now would be an excellent time to research the various GPS units that Parallax has for sale, and take a look at their documentation, specification sheets and perhaps the sample programs to gain a better understanding of how everything works, and hopefully assess our capabilities. Questions regarding space and hardware should answer themselves if we do our research correctly, but I'm sure some other experienced members of the forum can give us some advice as well.
From where we left off last year, our final program only took a small portion of the BS2e's EEPROM. It may or may not fit on the "standard" BS2, which contains a significantly smaller EEPROM. Although if I remember correctly, it just barely fit.
For our newer team members, do you know what the EEPROM is and what function it serves? If not, this may be something you want to familiarize yourself with.
This seems like a fantastic way to further explore our opportunities. I would be glad to contact some of these teams, but I'm wondering if either you, Mr. Kibler, or Dylan might know which teams would be best to contact and why? As you mentioned, I'm certain that at least one or two teams were also utilizing Parallax hardware. If feasible, it may be logical to contact those teams as soon as possible to learn about their projects and to see if they have any advice for us.
Thanks for the birthday wishes, and happy new year to everyone!
~ Andrew