I understand what is beginning the procedure, (us turning the sensors on and all of that), but what are we ending with? Are we going all the way to the point of where we multiply the mV to get ppm? Or are we just covering to the point where you have all of the data needed to find the constant, but not actually what to do after that?
I understand what is beginning the procedure, (us turning the sensors on and all of that), but what are we ending with? Are we going all the way to the point of where we multiply the mV to get ppm? Or are we just covering to the point where you have all of the data needed to find the constant, but not actually what to do after that?
Ideally we would program the BOE/ASP to convert CO2 mV to ppm during descent. From a practical standpoint though, we're running out of time and we have a pre-flight checklist and procedure to write. We want to be sure that we bring everything we might need and that we have everything up and running properly when the ASP is loaded into the rocket. One slip-up could = no data (no parachute, etc.) :freaked:
Do you have the correct program loaded into the BOE/ASP? Have you tightly fastened everything down? Got the instruction manuals for any devices that might have them?
==============
I only flew two rockets over the last weekend. One was my GPS transmitter, which worked fine again. Then on Sunday I tried for my altitude record with a 3" dual deployment rocket - and landed in the lake. I got myself into real trouble trying to recover it before I gave up - and realized I didn't know which way was back to shore, through the cattails that were far taller than me. Fortunately the sun was out, and I could get my bearing that way.
Someone else went back yesterday and fished it out - I'm trying to make arrangements to pick it up. We'll see how much of the electronics still work. When I was looking for it, I was getting a weak signal, which told me it was already underwater. Then the signal disappeared altogether, not a good sign at all. Good tracking practice, though. I had to use all of the little tricks - tilting the antenna to attenuate the signal, then removing the antenna before going into the cattails, and shielding the radio with my body. It turns out I knew exactly where my rocket was, but just couldn't safely reach it without a boat (which is how it was recovered).
Count yourselves lucky that you guys won't land in any lakes. My club is going to buy a kayak for recovery - there were a lot of rockets in the lake this weekend.
But what are we covering in the procedure? As in terms of how far? Only to the point of when you obtain the data to convert? Or through the entire thing, as in all the way to the point where you have the constant?
I dont know if you all know but, you have to go to the office and ask for an "extrodanary absence" form (I think that is what they are called). You have to have every one of your teachers sign it and one of the assistant principals. It takes about a week to do, if youre like me who kept forgetting to ask my teachers at the end of class. They need to be filled out either one or two weeks in advance. Last year I asked for the work I would miss around the week before we left and most of them told me "remind me the last day I see you before you leave". Some of the teachers will tell you to have fun and enjoy the trip and won't give you the homework.
I only flew two rockets over the last weekend ...and landed in the lake.
Egads Sylvie! :shakehead: I'm glad I didn't write earlier like I intended to. I was going to ask, "So how did last weekend's launch go? How did your electronics work?" Now we know...
It sounds like your electronics worked just fine, even underwater. It was the landing-- or rather, the location of the landing-- that seemed problematic. So how did you manage to land in a lake? I'm glad there weren't any alligators hunkered there in the cattails or it could have been "Bye, bye Sylvie~!" :smhair:
Do you think you'll get your rocket and the electronics back? Did you have a reloadable ca$ing in it? Dual deployment electronics? Ouch. It sounds like it was an expensive (CATO? Lawn dart?) LAKE DART!
I hope you won't let it discourage you. I've CATO'ed more than a few rockets (casings, electronics) while characterizing homemade APCP and there were times when I simply left everything on the shelf for weeks afterward because I couldn't take another unsuccessful launch/flight. But then reality set in and I realized that it's all part of the journey, part of the learning curve. Thomas Alva didn't give up. It's that 1% inspiration that keeps us going, right?
So why don't you bring your biggest rocket and your biggest casing (I'll let you use one of mine) and join us at Black Rock to set your altitude record? There are no lakes to land in (although there are a few small geysers...!)
I'm eager to hear Chapter Two of "Landing in the Lake". Don't keep us in suspenders!
I don’t know if you all know but, you have to go to the office and ask for an "extrodanary absence" form (I think that is what they are called). You have to have every one of your teachers sign it and one of the assistant principals. It takes about a week to do, if you’re like me who kept forgetting to ask my teachers at the end of class. They need to be filled out either one or two weeks in advance. Last year I asked for the work I would miss around the week before we left and most of them told me "remind me the last day I see you before you leave". Some of the teachers will tell you to have fun and enjoy the trip and won't give you the homework.
Sean
Sean,
Thanks for giving your JSRHS teammates a heads-up about getting an "extraordinary absence" form in the office. YES! It does need to be filled out well in advance and now is the time to be doing that. Be sure that your parents see, and sign, the form.
What did you mean when you said that you "tilted the antenna to attenuate the signal?" What does attenuating the signal (antenna?) mean? Were you using a Yaggi antenna?
What did you mean when you said that you "tilted the antenna to attenuate the signal?" What does attenuating the signal (antenna?) mean? Were you using a Yaggi antenna?
I was using an Arrow Antennas 7-element 440 Yagi, which works great. However, when you get too close to the transmitter, you get full scale signal whichever way you point the antenna. The signal is too strong for radio direction finding. You can buy an attenuator, which weakens the signal enough that you can tell which direction it is. But you can instead twist the antenna in your hand 90 degrees, so the arrow shafts are pointing up and down instead of left and right, and weaken the signal somewhat that way. It works surprisingly well. When you get even closer, you can take the antenna off altogether, and hold the radio up against your chest, and turn in a circle - when the signal fades, the transmitter is directly behind you (and, of course, either in the lake or in a tree).
The winds aloft on Sunday were bad - far higher than on the ground, as quite a few of us discovered the hard way. I did get my rocket back, because one of the guys went back the next day with an inflatible boat and fished several rockets out of the lake. Another guy had taken out three of them the day before. The lake attracts rockets, obviously, as do trees (another guy has his hung in a tree - next to a hornet's nest). Black Rock sounds great. It's almost silly to fly GPS at Bong, because you'll find your rocket, but won't be able to retrieve it. I'm going back to flying in the lower 3500 feet of sky.
Almost all of the rocket is salvagable. The MAWD seems to work, but I have a lot more testing to do before flying it again. The motor casing is fine, as is the entire fin can and motor mount, and the payload bay, and the piston. The upper body tube is trash, and as far as I can tell so far, so is the Big Red Bee transmitter. I've got quite a few more tests I can run on that though. Maybe I can bring it back to life.
What are we covering in the procedure? As in terms of how far? Only to the point of when you obtain the data to convert? Or through the entire thing, as in all the way to the point where you have the constant?
What are we covering in the procedure? As in terms of how far? Only to the point of when you obtain the data to convert? Or through the entire thing, as in all the way to the point where you have the constant?
ROCKETEERS,
Please see my answer to this question in a previous post (below):
"Ideally we would program the BOE/ASP to convert CO2 mV to ppm during descent.... [but] we're running out of time and [this probably won't get done before we leave.] We have [to write] a pre-flight and post-flight checklist and procedure for:
1) When and how to turn on, warm up, and load the ASP into the rocket (pre-flight)
2) When and how to power the ASP down so we don't lose any data (post flight)
3) When and how to arm the PerfectFlite altimeter
4) The Big Red Bee shortwave transmitter,
5) The Garmin shortwave transmitter,
6) How to turn on and adjust the different radio frequencies (we have three shortwave radios), etc,
I'm counting on Sean and Andrew to make a list of things that we need procedures for. They will also be guiding you through the procedures, the launch, the landing (*hopefully not in a lake) and then making a presentation for the morning after the launch.
Attached is the first of several procedures I will be sending you by e-mail (I just sent it out.) This procedure is for how to use the shortwave transceiver (the VX-8R) to receive information from the ASP'-2's on-board transmitter so you can find the ASP after it lands. I'll write each procedure as simply as possible to minimize the chance that we'll do something incorrectly.
*I ask, and I expect, that each Rocketeer will print out every procedure as I write them and send them out. Put them in your team binder under 'Procedures" and be sure you can find them easily. Each Rocketeer will need ALL the procedures on launch day so you can do your assigned task. I will not be bringing extra copies. If you don't have your 'Procedures' binder you could well end up sitting on the sidelines. It's important that you print and keep these procedures. Enough said about that.
We just received an official invitation to make a presentation at Gerlach High School the morning of September 15th, the day after we arrive...! After the presentation we'll head directly to the launch site, accompanied by students from Gerlach High School...! :scool:
Gerlach students will be partnered with each of our subsystem teams, so know your tasks well and be prepared to explain it to your new friend(s) from Gerlach. :smilewinkgrin:
When we arrive at the launch site we'll "set up camp" (put up our sun tent and work table), check in with the RSO (Range Safety Officer), then prepare the ASP-2 and the rocket for our first launch attempt (weather permitting.) Andrew and Sean, I looking for some real leadership here. Step in, partner with me, and be decisive at the launch site. YOU are the experts this year. Please reply back to Andrew after you print out each procedure to confirm that you have it. Andrew, please keep me updated and please keep a checklist. Be thinking about who will be on each of the subsystem teams.
It's hard to believe that we'll be meeting a week from Sunday (September 12th) at 1:00 PM to pack for the launch. I hope you're as excited as I am...! Please e-mail me if you have any questions.
Aim high,
Mr. Kibler
--
"All human beings, by nature, desire to know." - Aristotle
Attached is the first of several procedures I will be sending you by e-mail (I just sent it out.) This procedure is for how to use the shortwave transceiver (the VX-8R) to receive information from the ASP'-2's on-board transmitter so you can find the ASP after it lands. I'll write each procedure as simply as possible to minimize the chance that we'll do something incorrectly.
Aha. Okay, this doesn't really matter at all to anything, but I was wondering earlier what "shortwave transceiver" you would be using. It sounds like you're using a Big Red Bee "Beeline" transmitter - the same one I use. Technically it's not "shortwave". It's a UHF transmitter, operating in the 440 MHz amateur band. I assume you have a licensed amateur radio operator with the ARLISS launch team. "Shortwave" is an entirely different part of the radio frequency spectrum.
Aha. Okay, this doesn't really matter at all to anything, but I was wondering earlier what "shortwave transceiver" you would be using. It sounds like you're using a Big Red Bee "Beeline" transmitter - the same one I use. Technically it's not "shortwave". It's a UHF transmitter, operating in the 440 MHz amateur band. I assume you have a licensed amateur radio operator with the ARLISS launch team. "Shortwave" is an entirely different part of the radio frequency spectrum.
Hi Sylvie,
We're using a Yaesu VX-8R transceiver to track the Beeline receiver. It is APRS-capable and so it reads out the transmitter's longitude and latitude, altitude, speed, etc... very handy but pricey. It's similar to the Kenwood TH hand-held model. I also have a Yaesu VR-500 receiver with a Yaggi antenna. It allows us to determine relative direction but that's all (unless we put a TNC modem in the loop somewhere.)
I'm having a problem getting one of the Beeline transmitters to transmit. Glad we have a back-up. Have you ever had problems like that with your Beeline? I've tried everything I know how to: re-set the tx frequency, switched out antennas, adjusted the receiver off-frequency in case the transmitter is calibrated incorrectly, etc. Bigger fish to fry right now since we leave soon and since we have a back-up transmitter.
We're using a Yaesu VX-8R transceiver to track the Beeline receiver. It is APRS-capable and so it reads out the transmitter's longitude and latitude, altitude, speed, etc... very handy but pricey. It's similar to the Kenwood TH hand-held model. I also have a Yaesu VR-500 receiver with a Yaggi antenna. It allows us to determine relative direction but that's all (unless we put a TNC modem in the loop somewhere.)
I'm having a problem getting one of the Beeline transmitters to transmit. Glad we have a back-up. Have you ever had problems like that with your Beeline? I've tried everything I know how to: re-set the tx frequency, switched out antennas, adjusted the receiver off-frequency in case the transmitter is calibrated incorrectly, etc. Bigger fish to fry right now since we leave soon and since we have a back-up transmitter.
Ah, I see. You're using one of the Big Red Bee GPS units, not just the Beeline transmitter (which is merely a beacon, though it does send out Morse code for your call sign, or whatever other string you tell it to transmit, so that you can be certain it is your rocket that you're tracking).
When you say it's not transmitting, do you mean no transmissions at all, or that it's not giving good GPS data? There is a processor on the BRB unit, and I imagine that it doesn't just immediately send all of the data from the GPS receiver, but instead transmits every X seconds, right? Can you tell if the GPS receiver is getting a good satellite lock? Is there a blinking red light, or something like that?
You might want to describe your issue on the Big Red Bee Yahoo group - Greg (the BRB guy) is active there, and may have some good tips for you.
I printed out your procedure, and it printed out one page of the procedure and 40 other pages of "computer logic" with a variety of symbols. There is only one symbol on a lot of the pages and I don't know what happened. Is it suppose to do that? Because I didn't think that it was suppose to be 40 pages long...
I printed out your procedure, and it printed out one page of the procedure and 40 other pages of "computer logic" with a variety of symbols. There is only one symbol on a lot of the pages and I don't know what happened. Is it suppose to do that? Because I didn't think that it was suppose to be 40 pages long...
Justin
Justin,
Thanks for downloading the VX-8R procedure... more procedures to come. The VX-8R procedure is a simple 1-page document. The extra symbols were either static that came through with the file or communcations from aliens or from a parallel universe. :shocked: You decide which (discard the 40 pages of symbols.)
Any data that a scientist collects is just numbers until it is interpreted and presented in a meaningful way. That's why scientists write scientific papers: to interpret what the data means. On the one hand you could argue, "So who cares what the temperature, humidity, CO2 concentration (etc.) is above the Black Rock Desert? Data is just numbers."
On the other hand you could examine your data carefully, then write a paper and explain what you think it means. That's why we're making a presentation at the breakfast banquet the Friday after you launch. That's the start but it's certainly not the end. You could also attend a student science conference at UNH, Harvard, or NASA and present your findings to other scientists. You could even submit a science fair project for the Siemens-Westinghouse Science Fair-- that's where the scholarships are; check it out, and check out how big the scholarships really are...!
I'm curious to see what you and your Rocketeer teammates will do with the data you collect in Nevada. Will you return home to New Hampshire and forget about it? Or will you continue your work, figure out the elusive constant, and present your findings? That's your decision to make Dylan.
I'm glad to guide you along if that's a direction you choose to go in. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Allen and Sylvie will guide you along, too. They've become great scientific partners and friends and they've invested a big part of themselves in your project. They want to see you succeed because they believe you have potential. They believe in your future Dylan. Never forget that. Kind and selfless people you've never even met chose to invest countless hours because they believe in you and your future, and so do I. "Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself."
So what will you do with the data? Where will you choose to go with the opportunity you've been given...?
I guess it's just about zero hour, and time to wish the Rocketeers a successful flight. I'm excited to hear about how it goes. I do wish I could have come out there - maybe next year.
I guess it's just about zero hour, and time to wish the Rocketeers a successful flight. I'm excited to hear about how it goes. I do wish I could have come out there - maybe next year.
Paul
Sylvie,
Yeah, I wish you could come to the launch too. It's not too late. We'll feed you well and even put a roof over your head. We have our last team meeting on Sunday and then we leave Tuesday morning. We'e making a presentation at Gerlach High School (the last dot on the map before Black Rock) and then 18 students and 3 teachers are joining us at the launch...! "Wish you were here."
On Monday we tested the ASP transmitter with the handheld receiver we'll be using and we had an excellent GPS lock at 3.5 miles line-of-sight. So I'm sure we'll get longitude and latitude readings at 5 or even 10 miles in the desert, maybe more.
We made one last minute modification. The transmitter antenna was coiled across the top of the ASP but the ham radio guy said that's a "no-no". So we made a gizmo we call "the Wilkens antenna" (named after Ken Wilkens, the guy who loaned us the handheld unit.) It's essentially a very small, spring-loaded thingy similar to a mouse-trap mechanism. It allows us to fold the antenna flat across the top of the ASP and it pops straight up when the ASP is ejected.
We STILL have to figure out a constant to use for converting CO2 mV to ppm. Looks like well do that when we return...
===================================
So did you revive your water-logged transmitter? What all were you able to salvage? What got trashed? Did you save any cattails for the scrap book? What's your next big launch? I'm keen on getting back into Ex-HPR motors and high altitude again when we return. I haven't launched any substantial rockets since last year at ARLISS... bummer! We've also talked abour maybe doing a high altitude balloon payload. It would be cool to see the curve of the Earth, and it would be a very different environment in which to launch. Real cold up there in 'rare air'!
Are watching college football now that the World Cup is over? Who are we rooting for? I wonder what Tracy is up to... (Hi Tracy!) :smilewinkgrin:
We made one last minute modification. The transmitter antenna was coiled across the top of the ASP but the ham radio guy said that's a "no-no". So we made a gizmo we call "the Wilkens antenna" (named after Ken Wilkens, the guy who loaned us the handheld unit.) It's essentially a very small, spring-loaded thingy similar to a mouse-trap mechanism. It allows us to fold the antenna flat across the top of the ASP and it pops straight up when the ASP is ejected.
We STILL have to figure out a constant to use for converting CO2 mV to ppm. Looks like well do that when we return...
I really don't think that'll be a problem, assuming, of course, that you get the equipment back in good condition. I wouldn't fret too much about this.
So did you revive your water-logged transmitter? What all were you able to salvage? What got trashed? Did you save any cattails for the scrap book? What's your next big launch?
We've got another launch here at the end of the month that I'll fly at, putting up either the GPS or the MAWD telemetry transmitter. Then I've got a month to prepare for Midwest Power, the big fall launch in northern Illinois. I'll put up something bigger and higher there - maybe a repeat flight of the one I dumped in the lake up here. It's mostly back together, though I will probably need a new parachute bay ($12 tube, no big deal).
I don't ever want to see a cattail again.
I've also convinced another flyer to put an XM telemetry transmitter into a BIG project he's finishing up to fly at Midwest Power: a 10" diameter version of a Jayhawk missile. The flyer is a former F-15 test pilot and current 757/767 airline pilot, so he knows how to make winged things fly fast. I'm excited about being part of one of the major projects, and I'm hoping to convince some other folks to carry these things in their rockets. I'll be there with my Propeller-based receiver, hopefully calling off the altitudes as it flies.
I'm keen on getting back into Ex-HPR motors and high altitude again when we return. I haven't launched any substantial rockets since last year at ARLISS... bummer! We've also talked abour maybe doing a high altitude balloon payload. It would be cool to see the curve of the Earth, and it would be a very different environment in which to launch. Real cold up there in 'rare air'!
I did mention that I did one of these last year, right?
Are watching college football now that the World Cup is over? Who are we rooting for?
On Wisconsin, on Wisconsin, Grand old Badger State!
(currently 11th ranked in the nation)
But of course I'm still really paying attention to the Brewers baseball games. Nothing else matters until after the World Series (but don't forget to watch Aaron Rogers and the Packers).
Good luck with your trip and your launch! I'm had to bail out here for a while due to work and family obligations, but I'll be with you in spirit and will follow your progress. I see I have some catching up to do with what has happened in the past couple of weeks.
Don't worry about "the constant" for mV to ppm conversion. Just collect the data and then look at it after the fact. You will have the raw numbers to work with. True, there are two columns that will both have the same number (they should have the same number!?). It is not a good idea to make any program changes at this point in time.
Thanks Tracy! We did our last ground test of the ASP's shortwave transmitters last evening and our signal is "5 by 5" at nearly 4 miles. We checked all the batteries and then ran the ASP one last time this evening before we packed it and...
ALL SYSTEMS ARE GO FOR LAUNCH! :jumpin:
We fly out tomorrow morning and I really wish you could join us at the launch pad. But I understand how busy your are. That's why I sincerely appreciate all the time, effort, and expertise you've given us. You and Sylvie know more than anyone else that getting the ASP us and running really wouldn't have been possible without you. A big part of you will soar in the skies above Black Rock desert in a mere few days. Thanks again for all your help, and for the good luck wishes (*hopefully we've factored out the luck at this point in the project!) We'll report back in after the launch.
You are a very kind and generous person Tracy. Thank you,
Comments
I understand what is beginning the procedure, (us turning the sensors on and all of that), but what are we ending with? Are we going all the way to the point of where we multiply the mV to get ppm? Or are we just covering to the point where you have all of the data needed to find the constant, but not actually what to do after that?
Ideally we would program the BOE/ASP to convert CO2 mV to ppm during descent. From a practical standpoint though, we're running out of time and we have a pre-flight checklist and procedure to write. We want to be sure that we bring everything we might need and that we have everything up and running properly when the ASP is loaded into the rocket. One slip-up could = no data (no parachute, etc.) :freaked:
So what will you and your teammates do now...?
Mr. Kibler
Spare batteries for everything? Voltmeter? Sandpaper? Masking tape? Electrical tape? Screwdrivers? Needlenose pliers? Wire cutters?
Do you have the correct program loaded into the BOE/ASP? Have you tightly fastened everything down? Got the instruction manuals for any devices that might have them?
==============
I only flew two rockets over the last weekend. One was my GPS transmitter, which worked fine again. Then on Sunday I tried for my altitude record with a 3" dual deployment rocket - and landed in the lake. I got myself into real trouble trying to recover it before I gave up - and realized I didn't know which way was back to shore, through the cattails that were far taller than me. Fortunately the sun was out, and I could get my bearing that way.
Someone else went back yesterday and fished it out - I'm trying to make arrangements to pick it up. We'll see how much of the electronics still work. When I was looking for it, I was getting a weak signal, which told me it was already underwater. Then the signal disappeared altogether, not a good sign at all. Good tracking practice, though. I had to use all of the little tricks - tilting the antenna to attenuate the signal, then removing the antenna before going into the cattails, and shielding the radio with my body. It turns out I knew exactly where my rocket was, but just couldn't safely reach it without a boat (which is how it was recovered).
Count yourselves lucky that you guys won't land in any lakes. My club is going to buy a kayak for recovery - there were a lot of rockets in the lake this weekend.
I dont know if you all know but, you have to go to the office and ask for an "extrodanary absence" form (I think that is what they are called). You have to have every one of your teachers sign it and one of the assistant principals. It takes about a week to do, if youre like me who kept forgetting to ask my teachers at the end of class. They need to be filled out either one or two weeks in advance. Last year I asked for the work I would miss around the week before we left and most of them told me "remind me the last day I see you before you leave". Some of the teachers will tell you to have fun and enjoy the trip and won't give you the homework.
Sean
Egads Sylvie! :shakehead: I'm glad I didn't write earlier like I intended to. I was going to ask, "So how did last weekend's launch go? How did your electronics work?" Now we know...
It sounds like your electronics worked just fine, even underwater. It was the landing-- or rather, the location of the landing-- that seemed problematic. So how did you manage to land in a lake? I'm glad there weren't any alligators hunkered there in the cattails or it could have been "Bye, bye Sylvie~!" :smhair:
Do you think you'll get your rocket and the electronics back? Did you have a reloadable ca$ing in it? Dual deployment electronics? Ouch. It sounds like it was an expensive (CATO? Lawn dart?) LAKE DART!
I hope you won't let it discourage you. I've CATO'ed more than a few rockets (casings, electronics) while characterizing homemade APCP and there were times when I simply left everything on the shelf for weeks afterward because I couldn't take another unsuccessful launch/flight. But then reality set in and I realized that it's all part of the journey, part of the learning curve. Thomas Alva didn't give up. It's that 1% inspiration that keeps us going, right?
So why don't you bring your biggest rocket and your biggest casing (I'll let you use one of mine) and join us at Black Rock to set your altitude record? There are no lakes to land in (although there are a few small geysers...!)
I'm eager to hear Chapter Two of "Landing in the Lake". Don't keep us in suspenders!
Mark
Sean,
Thanks for giving your JSRHS teammates a heads-up about getting an "extraordinary absence" form in the office. YES! It does need to be filled out well in advance and now is the time to be doing that. Be sure that your parents see, and sign, the form.
Thanks again Sean!
Mr. Kibler
What did you mean when you said that you "tilted the antenna to attenuate the signal?" What does attenuating the signal (antenna?) mean? Were you using a Yaggi antenna?
Mark
I was using an Arrow Antennas 7-element 440 Yagi, which works great. However, when you get too close to the transmitter, you get full scale signal whichever way you point the antenna. The signal is too strong for radio direction finding. You can buy an attenuator, which weakens the signal enough that you can tell which direction it is. But you can instead twist the antenna in your hand 90 degrees, so the arrow shafts are pointing up and down instead of left and right, and weaken the signal somewhat that way. It works surprisingly well. When you get even closer, you can take the antenna off altogether, and hold the radio up against your chest, and turn in a circle - when the signal fades, the transmitter is directly behind you (and, of course, either in the lake or in a tree).
The winds aloft on Sunday were bad - far higher than on the ground, as quite a few of us discovered the hard way. I did get my rocket back, because one of the guys went back the next day with an inflatible boat and fished several rockets out of the lake. Another guy had taken out three of them the day before. The lake attracts rockets, obviously, as do trees (another guy has his hung in a tree - next to a hornet's nest). Black Rock sounds great. It's almost silly to fly GPS at Bong, because you'll find your rocket, but won't be able to retrieve it. I'm going back to flying in the lower 3500 feet of sky.
Almost all of the rocket is salvagable. The MAWD seems to work, but I have a lot more testing to do before flying it again. The motor casing is fine, as is the entire fin can and motor mount, and the payload bay, and the piston. The upper body tube is trash, and as far as I can tell so far, so is the Big Red Bee transmitter. I've got quite a few more tests I can run on that though. Maybe I can bring it back to life.
ROCKETEERS,
Please see my answer to this question in a previous post (below):
"Ideally we would program the BOE/ASP to convert CO2 mV to ppm during descent.... [but] we're running out of time and [this probably won't get done before we leave.] We have [to write] a pre-flight and post-flight checklist and procedure for:
1) When and how to turn on, warm up, and load the ASP into the rocket (pre-flight)
2) When and how to power the ASP down so we don't lose any data (post flight)
3) When and how to arm the PerfectFlite altimeter
4) The Big Red Bee shortwave transmitter,
5) The Garmin shortwave transmitter,
6) How to turn on and adjust the different radio frequencies (we have three shortwave radios), etc,
I'm counting on Sean and Andrew to make a list of things that we need procedures for. They will also be guiding you through the procedures, the launch, the landing (*hopefully not in a lake) and then making a presentation for the morning after the launch.
Sean and Andrew, please reply....
Mr. Kibler
Attached is the first of several procedures I will be sending you by e-mail (I just sent it out.) This procedure is for how to use the shortwave transceiver (the VX-8R) to receive information from the ASP'-2's on-board transmitter so you can find the ASP after it lands. I'll write each procedure as simply as possible to minimize the chance that we'll do something incorrectly.
*I ask, and I expect, that each Rocketeer will print out every procedure as I write them and send them out. Put them in your team binder under 'Procedures" and be sure you can find them easily. Each Rocketeer will need ALL the procedures on launch day so you can do your assigned task. I will not be bringing extra copies. If you don't have your 'Procedures' binder you could well end up sitting on the sidelines. It's important that you print and keep these procedures. Enough said about that.
We just received an official invitation to make a presentation at Gerlach High School the morning of September 15th, the day after we arrive...! After the presentation we'll head directly to the launch site, accompanied by students from Gerlach High School...! :scool:
Gerlach students will be partnered with each of our subsystem teams, so know your tasks well and be prepared to explain it to your new friend(s) from Gerlach. :smilewinkgrin:
When we arrive at the launch site we'll "set up camp" (put up our sun tent and work table), check in with the RSO (Range Safety Officer), then prepare the ASP-2 and the rocket for our first launch attempt (weather permitting.) Andrew and Sean, I looking for some real leadership here. Step in, partner with me, and be decisive at the launch site. YOU are the experts this year. Please reply back to Andrew after you print out each procedure to confirm that you have it. Andrew, please keep me updated and please keep a checklist. Be thinking about who will be on each of the subsystem teams.
It's hard to believe that we'll be meeting a week from Sunday (September 12th) at 1:00 PM to pack for the launch. I hope you're as excited as I am...! Please e-mail me if you have any questions.
Aim high,
Mr. Kibler
--
"All human beings, by nature, desire to know." - Aristotle
Aha. Okay, this doesn't really matter at all to anything, but I was wondering earlier what "shortwave transceiver" you would be using. It sounds like you're using a Big Red Bee "Beeline" transmitter - the same one I use. Technically it's not "shortwave". It's a UHF transmitter, operating in the 440 MHz amateur band. I assume you have a licensed amateur radio operator with the ARLISS launch team. "Shortwave" is an entirely different part of the radio frequency spectrum.
Hi Sylvie,
We're using a Yaesu VX-8R transceiver to track the Beeline receiver. It is APRS-capable and so it reads out the transmitter's longitude and latitude, altitude, speed, etc... very handy but pricey. It's similar to the Kenwood TH hand-held model. I also have a Yaesu VR-500 receiver with a Yaggi antenna. It allows us to determine relative direction but that's all (unless we put a TNC modem in the loop somewhere.)
I'm having a problem getting one of the Beeline transmitters to transmit. Glad we have a back-up. Have you ever had problems like that with your Beeline? I've tried everything I know how to: re-set the tx frequency, switched out antennas, adjusted the receiver off-frequency in case the transmitter is calibrated incorrectly, etc. Bigger fish to fry right now since we leave soon and since we have a back-up transmitter.
Good morning (yawn!)
Mark - KB1GNE
Ah, I see. You're using one of the Big Red Bee GPS units, not just the Beeline transmitter (which is merely a beacon, though it does send out Morse code for your call sign, or whatever other string you tell it to transmit, so that you can be certain it is your rocket that you're tracking).
When you say it's not transmitting, do you mean no transmissions at all, or that it's not giving good GPS data? There is a processor on the BRB unit, and I imagine that it doesn't just immediately send all of the data from the GPS receiver, but instead transmits every X seconds, right? Can you tell if the GPS receiver is getting a good satellite lock? Is there a blinking red light, or something like that?
You might want to describe your issue on the Big Red Bee Yahoo group - Greg (the BRB guy) is active there, and may have some good tips for you.
Paul
I printed out your procedure, and it printed out one page of the procedure and 40 other pages of "computer logic" with a variety of symbols. There is only one symbol on a lot of the pages and I don't know what happened. Is it suppose to do that? Because I didn't think that it was suppose to be 40 pages long...
Justin
Justin,
Thanks for downloading the VX-8R procedure... more procedures to come. The VX-8R procedure is a simple 1-page document. The extra symbols were either static that came through with the file or communcations from aliens or from a parallel universe. :shocked: You decide which (discard the 40 pages of symbols.)
Thanks,
Mr. Kibler
Mr. Kibler :scool:
Without the constant. Unfortuantely.
Any data that a scientist collects is just numbers until it is interpreted and presented in a meaningful way. That's why scientists write scientific papers: to interpret what the data means. On the one hand you could argue, "So who cares what the temperature, humidity, CO2 concentration (etc.) is above the Black Rock Desert? Data is just numbers."
On the other hand you could examine your data carefully, then write a paper and explain what you think it means. That's why we're making a presentation at the breakfast banquet the Friday after you launch. That's the start but it's certainly not the end. You could also attend a student science conference at UNH, Harvard, or NASA and present your findings to other scientists. You could even submit a science fair project for the Siemens-Westinghouse Science Fair-- that's where the scholarships are; check it out, and check out how big the scholarships really are...!
http://www.siemens-foundation.org/en/competition.htm
I'm curious to see what you and your Rocketeer teammates will do with the data you collect in Nevada. Will you return home to New Hampshire and forget about it? Or will you continue your work, figure out the elusive constant, and present your findings? That's your decision to make Dylan.
I'm glad to guide you along if that's a direction you choose to go in. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Allen and Sylvie will guide you along, too. They've become great scientific partners and friends and they've invested a big part of themselves in your project. They want to see you succeed because they believe you have potential. They believe in your future Dylan. Never forget that. Kind and selfless people you've never even met chose to invest countless hours because they believe in you and your future, and so do I. "Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself."
So what will you do with the data? Where will you choose to go with the opportunity you've been given...?
Mr. Kibler
Paul
Sylvie,
Yeah, I wish you could come to the launch too. It's not too late. We'll feed you well and even put a roof over your head. We have our last team meeting on Sunday and then we leave Tuesday morning. We'e making a presentation at Gerlach High School (the last dot on the map before Black Rock) and then 18 students and 3 teachers are joining us at the launch...! "Wish you were here."
On Monday we tested the ASP transmitter with the handheld receiver we'll be using and we had an excellent GPS lock at 3.5 miles line-of-sight. So I'm sure we'll get longitude and latitude readings at 5 or even 10 miles in the desert, maybe more.
We made one last minute modification. The transmitter antenna was coiled across the top of the ASP but the ham radio guy said that's a "no-no". So we made a gizmo we call "the Wilkens antenna" (named after Ken Wilkens, the guy who loaned us the handheld unit.) It's essentially a very small, spring-loaded thingy similar to a mouse-trap mechanism. It allows us to fold the antenna flat across the top of the ASP and it pops straight up when the ASP is ejected.
We STILL have to figure out a constant to use for converting CO2 mV to ppm. Looks like well do that when we return...
===================================
So did you revive your water-logged transmitter? What all were you able to salvage? What got trashed? Did you save any cattails for the scrap book? What's your next big launch? I'm keen on getting back into Ex-HPR motors and high altitude again when we return. I haven't launched any substantial rockets since last year at ARLISS... bummer! We've also talked abour maybe doing a high altitude balloon payload. It would be cool to see the curve of the Earth, and it would be a very different environment in which to launch. Real cold up there in 'rare air'!
Are watching college football now that the World Cup is over? Who are we rooting for? I wonder what Tracy is up to... (Hi Tracy!) :smilewinkgrin:
Sounds very cool.
I really don't think that'll be a problem, assuming, of course, that you get the equipment back in good condition. I wouldn't fret too much about this.
We've got another launch here at the end of the month that I'll fly at, putting up either the GPS or the MAWD telemetry transmitter. Then I've got a month to prepare for Midwest Power, the big fall launch in northern Illinois. I'll put up something bigger and higher there - maybe a repeat flight of the one I dumped in the lake up here. It's mostly back together, though I will probably need a new parachute bay ($12 tube, no big deal).
I don't ever want to see a cattail again.
I've also convinced another flyer to put an XM telemetry transmitter into a BIG project he's finishing up to fly at Midwest Power: a 10" diameter version of a Jayhawk missile. The flyer is a former F-15 test pilot and current 757/767 airline pilot, so he knows how to make winged things fly fast. I'm excited about being part of one of the major projects, and I'm hoping to convince some other folks to carry these things in their rockets. I'll be there with my Propeller-based receiver, hopefully calling off the altitudes as it flies.
I did mention that I did one of these last year, right?
On Wisconsin, on Wisconsin, Grand old Badger State!
(currently 11th ranked in the nation)
But of course I'm still really paying attention to the Brewers baseball games. Nothing else matters until after the World Series (but don't forget to watch Aaron Rogers and the Packers).
"Fight, fight for O- HI- O, men of scarlet and grey...
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end
For O- HI- O."
Go Buckeyes!
Thanks Tracy! We did our last ground test of the ASP's shortwave transmitters last evening and our signal is "5 by 5" at nearly 4 miles. We checked all the batteries and then ran the ASP one last time this evening before we packed it and...
ALL SYSTEMS ARE GO FOR LAUNCH! :jumpin:
We fly out tomorrow morning and I really wish you could join us at the launch pad. But I understand how busy your are. That's why I sincerely appreciate all the time, effort, and expertise you've given us. You and Sylvie know more than anyone else that getting the ASP us and running really wouldn't have been possible without you. A big part of you will soar in the skies above Black Rock desert in a mere few days. Thanks again for all your help, and for the good luck wishes (*hopefully we've factored out the luck at this point in the project!) We'll report back in after the launch.
You are a very kind and generous person Tracy. Thank you,
Mark