I am very happy to see some documentation start to appear, it actually helps me to understand what direction Dr. Jim is going in.
ERAM = thumb drive Flash memory
MRAM = hub memory
CRAM = cog memory
Correct?
The listing of kernel functions helps a bit, however it does not show how the virtual memory works. It implies that the kernel provides the means to copy data to/from the three different types of memory, but that managing it is left up to the code running in the cogs. Is this correct?
Will there be additional kernel calls that implement virtual memory and hide the differences between ERAM and MRAM (to use your terminology)?
64 longs for the kernel seems too little to implement all the kernel functions. Are you using the LMM technique to execute code from the hub?
Is there some locking mechanism to prevent user programs from trying to access "ERAM" at the same time?
Thanks,
Bill
mallred said...
KISS OS has been released as an alpha version to our current customers. The beginnings of documentation are on the website. Also of note, for those of you who just need to be connected, we have a Wiffiti screen live on our homepage. The question to answer is "What is machine intelligence?" We look forward to your answers on our Wiffiti screen. Directions to text your answers is given on the website. See you soon.
Mark Allred
Machine Intelligence Technologies
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Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full Morpheus & Mem+dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, 2MB memory IO board kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Mark,
Bill was referring to the multiprogramming nature of the Propeller where you can have multiple processors all accessing the same I/O at the same time. There is built-in locking capability to make one processor wait until it's "safe" for it to access either a hub ram location (MRAM) or an extended RAM chip (ERAM), but you have to make use of it. It doesn't work by itself. Even if you have a single cog accessing the extended RAM at all times, multiple cogs could be making a request of some sort for access to the extended RAM and someone somewhere has to do the negotiating somehow.
seems that DR. Jim don't want to share technical details with mark
I can't help myself: there are so many things mysterious about this project
My doubts about seriosity stay and won't go away with what mark is posting here
and you can show it IN PUBLIC You will get a lot of attention
If you need money in the meantime - work as a millionaire or a dishwasher or whatever suits to you inbetween. (Except as a KISS AI-purchaser)
I guess the earning will be bigger then selling 1 or 2 ExtRAM-boards to people who have fun on testing all kind of equipement
and post critical reviews about it.
Post as a blog, not a store. Show the current development status and update your site daily with what you accomplished on your debugger and OS. You can even post pictures to show what you are doing. If you didn't get anything major done just post "Standard Programming". This way your fans could keep track of your project on a day to day basis. You could even still sell your boards but keeping a log would encourage more people to buy them becouse they could see your current progress.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled. I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
Guys, machine intelligence is wide open. I invite any of you to invent your own version of machine intelligence and compete directly with us.
As far as I know, we are the only ones claiming anything of substance that is workable. We will continue our work until we are done. When we are done, you will see videos on our blog of our machine learning. Even then I know we will be recieved skeptically. That's ok, because we are doing something worthwhile.
Mabe we roll things out too early. That's probably true. So what. That only gives our followers a heads up and the ability to work with our products early. What's the harm in that, (other than you did not create it)?
We will continue what we are doing at our own pace and eventually we will get there. In the end, our "vaporware" will be very real indeed.
I hope you will notice that much of Ben's plan sounds exactly like yours.· He favors a learning approach, has had early and commercially viable succeses, has focused early on natural language, and believes that AI will arise by training itself by interacting with an appropriate environment.· He differs in having driven the focus artifically toward natural language for his early work and favoring artificial environments like Second Life instead of real robots to accommodate the learning process.
He also has a real company (http://www.novamente.net/)·funded by non-trivial investors and is using real computers.· In fact his early efforts were focused on using the entire internet, showing that he does have a feel for the scale of the problem he is attacking.· And oh yes one other thing -- despite ten years of extremely well funded work, his creations have yet to use natural language to ask him a sensible spontaneous question.
mallred said...
Mabe we roll things out too early. .... What's the harm in that...?
It's how people perceive your company. Right now, Kiss OS looks like the hobby of some college kid who doesn't want to share his secrets, but wants everybody to know how smart he is. It lacks professionalism.
When the thing is working, we will have lots of offers. I'm not worried about that. They will have tons of money and polish it for us. Who cares about polish right now? We are eight months into our company and put out products on average once every two months. We are in the creative zone right now. Polish can come later. Same for professionalism. Let them do the TV commercials and packaging. We are concentrating on building the platform which will house our technology.
At least no one is paying for the KISS OS right now.· It's free.· Our customers can play with it and get free updates for life.· Nothing wrong with that.
Howard, I think "water run car" was a reference to Brown's Gas, the water carburetor, or the H2O hydrogen fuel MPG booster [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Ross? Ross? are you Ok Ross? I thought they got rid of you [noparse]:)[/noparse] Entertaining isn't it?
If Dr. Jim looked at the OBEX, the run command would have worked last year! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
mallred said...
Polish can come later. Same for professionalism.
I can't believe that anyone who's serious about making a mark in their field would ever utter such tripe! It's never too soon to demonstrate — nay, exude — professionalism if you want anyone to take you seriously! Otherwise, you come off as two-bit hacks. No one forgets a first impression! I certainly won't forget this one!
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 8/18/2009 2:50:37 AM GMT
Comments
I couldn't find anything that sounded like "teach", "learn", "recognition", "intelligence" etc.
But I'm **verrrrrry** impressed!
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Good to see some written clues, now we wait for those existing customers to put their head over the parrapet, and give a report.
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Style and grace : Nil point
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Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled.
I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
CRAM = COG-RAM
ERAM = External RAM
DRAM = HUB-RAM
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
I am very happy to see some documentation start to appear, it actually helps me to understand what direction Dr. Jim is going in.
ERAM = thumb drive Flash memory
MRAM = hub memory
CRAM = cog memory
Correct?
The listing of kernel functions helps a bit, however it does not show how the virtual memory works. It implies that the kernel provides the means to copy data to/from the three different types of memory, but that managing it is left up to the code running in the cogs. Is this correct?
Will there be additional kernel calls that implement virtual memory and hide the differences between ERAM and MRAM (to use your terminology)?
64 longs for the kernel seems too little to implement all the kernel functions. Are you using the LMM technique to execute code from the hub?
Is there some locking mechanism to prevent user programs from trying to access "ERAM" at the same time?
Thanks,
Bill
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full
Morpheus & Mem+dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, 2MB memory IO board kit $89.95, both kits $189.95
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Not sure about virtual memory, would have to ask Dr. Jim.
The four types of memory.
VRAM - thumb drive
ERAM - extended RAM (our 2MB boards)
MRAM - main RAM (32K Propeller Hub RAM)
CRAM - 2K COG RAM
Not sure what DRAM is.· Mabe a typo, or I would have to ask.
About the access issue, Dr. Jim has said that only one ERAM chip will be active at any given time, so that probably takes care of any overlap issues.
Thanks,
Mark
Bill was referring to the multiprogramming nature of the Propeller where you can have multiple processors all accessing the same I/O at the same time. There is built-in locking capability to make one processor wait until it's "safe" for it to access either a hub ram location (MRAM) or an extended RAM chip (ERAM), but you have to make use of it. It doesn't work by itself. Even if you have a single cog accessing the extended RAM at all times, multiple cogs could be making a request of some sort for access to the extended RAM and someone somewhere has to do the negotiating somehow.
Gotcha, probably handled in programming then. I'm sure Dr. Jim could elaborate.
Mark
I can't help myself: there are so many things mysterious about this project
My doubts about seriosity stay and won't go away with what mark is posting here
It doesn't even run a program?· What was the point of releasing this?
Post Edited (Agent420) : 8/17/2009 10:58:43 AM GMT
None that I have been able to discern.
Houston we have a problem.................
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Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse
Naa, that's OK! As long as there is no documentation how such a program should look like, where the hooks are to access the shades of xRAM, etc.
mallred is the VP and COO. I've never seen a president making such a dis-service to his own company.
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Post Edited (Leon) : 8/17/2009 2:12:59 PM GMT
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
think about this:
to avoid further damage to the image of your company you should consider a radical step
take the whole KISS and AI thing out of your website, concentrate on developing it until it works properly
and then come back and put it online again.
If your AI modul is able to do just a bit more than
nderwater Robots Work Together Without Human Input
and you can show it IN PUBLIC You will get a lot of attention
If you need money in the meantime - work as a millionaire or a dishwasher or whatever suits to you inbetween. (Except as a KISS AI-purchaser)
I guess the earning will be bigger then selling 1 or 2 ExtRAM-boards to people who have fun on testing all kind of equipement
and post critical reviews about it.
best regards
Stefan
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Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled.
I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
As far as I know, we are the only ones claiming anything of substance that is workable. We will continue our work until we are done. When we are done, you will see videos on our blog of our machine learning. Even then I know we will be recieved skeptically. That's ok, because we are doing something worthwhile.
Mabe we roll things out too early. That's probably true. So what. That only gives our followers a heads up and the ability to work with our products early. What's the harm in that, (other than you did not create it)?
We will continue what we are doing at our own pace and eventually we will get there. In the end, our "vaporware" will be very real indeed.
Mark
I hope you will notice that much of Ben's plan sounds exactly like yours.· He favors a learning approach, has had early and commercially viable succeses, has focused early on natural language, and believes that AI will arise by training itself by interacting with an appropriate environment.· He differs in having driven the focus artifically toward natural language for his early work and favoring artificial environments like Second Life instead of real robots to accommodate the learning process.
He also has a real company (http://www.novamente.net/)·funded by non-trivial investors and is using real computers.· In fact his early efforts were focused on using the entire internet, showing that he does have a feel for the scale of the problem he is attacking.· And oh yes one other thing -- despite ten years of extremely well funded work, his creations have yet to use natural language to ask him a sensible spontaneous question.
It's how people perceive your company. Right now, Kiss OS looks like the hobby of some college kid who doesn't want to share his secrets, but wants everybody to know how smart he is. It lacks professionalism.
Post Edited (SRLM) : 8/18/2009 4:51:51 AM GMT
At least no one is paying for the KISS OS right now.· It's free.· Our customers can play with it and get free updates for life.· Nothing wrong with that.
Post Edited (mallred) : 8/18/2009 1:17:57 AM GMT
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina
> Our customers can play with it and get free updates for life.· Nothing wrong with that.
But No, Worky?
Where be Run Command ?
Why No Worky?
Dis looky QUIRKY!
> I have a new water run car for sale. Get in early and buy now, only $1,000,000. Engine, batteries, wheels, tyres etc will be free later.
YES, I buy now! ... but wait...·you say boat have BIG HOLE in it?!
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Ross? Ross? are you Ok Ross? I thought they got rid of you [noparse]:)[/noparse] Entertaining isn't it?
If Dr. Jim looked at the OBEX, the run command would have worked last year! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 8/18/2009 2:50:37 AM GMT