If this thing really works as promoted, at least Dr Jim will get a measure of respect for technological achievement and perhaps historical credit.
However, someone will buy it, reverse engineer it, repackage it, and sell it on a PC without paying one cent of royalty to anyone. Code can be obfuscated in the PC environment, so no one will ever be able to prove the algorithm was copied.
If it was released on the PC, there would be greater margin, early proof of the work, and it could remain a trade secret long enough to "pay for the research" instead of being quickly replicated by anyone beyond the reach of Patent or Copyright law (the rest of the world).
Added: With the magazine article, maybe he would get a cameo spot with Jay Leno.
Perhaps not. Did you read the Wiki article you mentioned?
Dr. Gouge has a couple of patents to his name, at least one in the area of object recognition (I don't have the links handy). He's picked a difficult problem to tackle that many others with similar or more extensive credentials have tackled and eventually failed at (as a commercial venture at least). Taking an idea from the development phase to market is fraught with all sorts of difficulties that have little to do with the underlying ideas.
^ Apparently my sarcasm markup code did not display correctly.
Having a patent is really not an indication of much.·Michael Zanakis holds a patent for a flatulance powered toy missile, but I wouldn't consider him a genius (or maybe I would lol).
United States Patent 6055910 said...
To operate the assembly, the operator places the inlet tube with its valve open adjacent his anal region from which a colonic gas is discharged. The piston is then withdrawn to a degree producing a negative pressure to inhale the gas into the combustion chamber to intermix with the air therein to create a combustible mixture. The ignitor is then activated to explode the mixture in the chamber and fire the missile into space.
Actually, your comment regarding the failure of others (potentially more knowledgable) to succeed at that task combined with·the marketing difficulties involved are pretty much what my post was all about ;-)· The Phantom is one of the great Vaporware debuts in recent history, just shy of Duke Nukem Forever.· I guess we'll see if KISS makes the list as well.
Post Edited (Agent420) : 8/13/2009 11:12:37 PM GMT
Agent420 said...
And what makes you think the Propeller audience would remain small if their goals became reality? -Phil
I don't - it would surely increase sales. -Agent420
I hope that they would give Parallax some time to make more chips and boards. If they do succeed, then Parallax would probably run out of stock in a week.
I noticed last week that the QFN chip quantity was at ~35,000, today it is at 30,630. So, somebody is making some big purchases, coincidence? The QFP chip seems to be stuck at the same quantity, I would think that the QFP chip would be the one that would moving. Parallax has also increased the quantities on the proto boards, coincidence?
Nope still on vacation but even that has not stoped me from starting plans for memmory and more. I will take over eventually [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
I may have missed it, but I didn't note anyone here fessing up to purchasing their memory expansion modules.· I thought they claimed they were posting here because they did have customers in the forum.· I would certainly expect at least a few bleeding edge Prop users of that type to visit here.
After all the grief that's been heaped on Mark and Jim in this forum, anyone who bought from them might be afraid to admit it here. I'm just saying ...
No pleeeease!
If one amongst us does have such a module, he is now constantly reading his eMail and waiting for the OS.
So he wouldn't answer now anyhow.
And if they actually shipped today, they must have included some manual. And if mallred isn't a $censored, he'll post a link to that manual here. Or start a new thread to get even more attention.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
When I checked the MIT web site yesterday there didn't seem to be any updates about KISS OS, it isn't even mentioned on the home page with their other products. I had a look at the blog, and they haven't answered this query:
Comment from: Rsadeika [noparse][[/noparse]Visitor]
When you sell the memory boards, does it come with Propeller drivers, or can you only use it with the KISS OS installed?
08/10/09 @ 06:37
Perhaps Mark or Dr Jim will respond here.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
This was a program generator that produced BASIC code, and was launched with a great deal of hype in 1981. It made a lot of money for the people behind it, until users realised that it was only suitable for simple things like mailing lists. It crashed in a few minutes when I tried it.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
> they are not going to answer anything technical because it's vaporware !
They could create a better vacuum by announcing details, answering questions and raising the price for the memory-modules.
I even do have a brilliant idea how to make more money: Sell pre-trained modules for different tasks. Subscription prices will keep the vacuum for at least 3 more months and it will sound much better when it implodes.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
This forum is so good because there is such a huge throughput, for a niche device. Even utter Smile holds a certain thought that will fire off those that lateraly think. This can then lead to concrete projects.
Thats my excuse ...
And anyway.. they have already ported the AI to PICs, MicroControlled's avatar proves it.
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Style and grace : Nil point
Post Edited (Toby Seckshund) : 8/15/2009 10:03:11 PM GMT
KISS OS has been released as an alpha version to our current customers. The beginnings of documentation are on the website. Also of note, for those of you who just need to be connected, we have a Wiffiti screen live on our homepage. The question to answer is "What is machine intelligence?" We look forward to your answers on our Wiffiti screen. Directions to text your answers is given on the website. See you soon.
I've never seen a Wiffiti app before. It's pretty neat.
Kiss OS Documentation said...
Those who participate in this testing will be provided with the final release version of the KISS-OS free of charge as well for the life of this project.
Sounds reasonable.
Further on, it appears that the OS takes up 4 cogs. This seems rather inefficient? If you're going to talk about OS bloat, my Windows takes up a few percent of the computer with no main applications running. KISS OS takes up 50%?
Kiss OS Documentation said...
3. Open the Parallax SPIN compiler in a window on your PC.
A technicallity, but it's called the "Propeller Tool".
Kiss OS Documentation said...
The COG RES routine occupies the first 64 long (32-bit) locations and provides functions to access ERAM and main Hub RAM to issue requests to the operating system kernel. Each of these functions will be described later.
It's not in the documentation, so can I presume that 'later' means 'later in time' rather than 'later in the document'?
Kiss OS Documentation said...
An example program is provided to show the user how to interface with the operating system.
Do you have a link to this program? It's not in the documentation.
Your manual uses the terms "MRAM", "ERAM", and "CRAM". Can you define these?
At the begining of the manaual, it specifies how it's been specially designed for MI applications, but the rest of the document seems to be concerned with things like text file access and running a program. So, it can take some user code to run a program. How does it prevent IO pin conflicts with OS pins? What about memory conflicts? I think you need to make a duplicate of the Prop-Tool, but that is specifically designed for programming in your OS (ie, it takes care of this automatically).
Can we get some videos from Dr. Jim about using the OS and more technical details?
Finally, I think you need a copy editor. Quite frankly, the publication of the document is terrible. There are misplaced or missing capitalizations, terms are not defined before they're used, and it could use some more formatting (aka, it looks like an overeager yet inept publish job). In addition, it needs more photographs (or graphics at least) to break up the monotony.
Comments
However, someone will buy it, reverse engineer it, repackage it, and sell it on a PC without paying one cent of royalty to anyone. Code can be obfuscated in the PC environment, so no one will ever be able to prove the algorithm was copied.
If it was released on the PC, there would be greater margin, early proof of the work, and it could remain a trade secret long enough to "pay for the research" instead of being quickly replicated by anyone beyond the reach of Patent or Copyright law (the rest of the world).
Added: With the magazine article, maybe he would get a cameo spot with Jay Leno.
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
Post Edited (jazzed) : 8/13/2009 6:33:01 PM GMT
I believe a fitting phrase is put up or shut up....
Dr. Gouge has a couple of patents to his name, at least one in the area of object recognition (I don't have the links handy). He's picked a difficult problem to tackle that many others with similar or more extensive credentials have tackled and eventually failed at (as a commercial venture at least). Taking an idea from the development phase to market is fraught with all sorts of difficulties that have little to do with the underlying ideas.
Having a patent is really not an indication of much.· Michael Zanakis holds a patent for a flatulance powered toy missile, but I wouldn't consider him a genius (or maybe I would lol).
Actually, your comment regarding the failure of others (potentially more knowledgable) to succeed at that task combined with·the marketing difficulties involved are pretty much what my post was all about ;-)· The Phantom is one of the great Vaporware debuts in recent history, just shy of Duke Nukem Forever.· I guess we'll see if KISS makes the list as well.
Post Edited (Agent420) : 8/13/2009 11:12:37 PM GMT
I hope that they would give Parallax some time to make more chips and boards. If they do succeed, then Parallax would probably run out of stock in a week.
Ray
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
-Phil
Do you think that I should?
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Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled.
I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
No pleeeease!
If one amongst us does have such a module, he is now constantly reading his eMail and waiting for the OS.
So he wouldn't answer now anyhow.
And if they actually shipped today, they must have included some manual. And if mallred isn't a $censored, he'll post a link to that manual here. Or start a new thread to get even more attention.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
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Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse
The U-boat, the U-boat!
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Comment from: Rsadeika [noparse][[/noparse]Visitor]
When you sell the memory boards, does it come with Propeller drivers, or can you only use it with the KISS OS installed?
08/10/09 @ 06:37
Perhaps Mark or Dr Jim will respond here.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
books.google.com/books?id=75dRYTqixzYC&pg=PA133#v=onepage&q=&f=false
This was a program generator that produced BASIC code, and was launched with a great deal of hype in 1981. It made a lot of money for the people behind it, until users realised that it was only suitable for simple things like mailing lists. It crashed in a few minutes when I tried it.
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
They could create a better vacuum by announcing details, answering questions and raising the price for the memory-modules.
I even do have a brilliant idea how to make more money: Sell pre-trained modules for different tasks. Subscription prices will keep the vacuum for at least 3 more months and it will sound much better when it implodes.
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
You know, that was about the time when quite a few programs were named "The last $whatever". Remember "TLA"? "The last assembler"?
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Good point but I think we can dine out on this a bit more.
Cheers
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Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Is there an other forum where they "promote" their products?
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
Thats my excuse ...
And anyway.. they have already ported the AI to PICs, MicroControlled's avatar proves it.
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Style and grace : Nil point
Post Edited (Toby Seckshund) : 8/15/2009 10:03:11 PM GMT
Mark Allred
Machine Intelligence Technologies
I've never seen a Wiffiti app before. It's pretty neat.
Sounds reasonable.
Further on, it appears that the OS takes up 4 cogs. This seems rather inefficient? If you're going to talk about OS bloat, my Windows takes up a few percent of the computer with no main applications running. KISS OS takes up 50%?
A technicallity, but it's called the "Propeller Tool".
It's not in the documentation, so can I presume that 'later' means 'later in time' rather than 'later in the document'?
Do you have a link to this program? It's not in the documentation.
Your manual uses the terms "MRAM", "ERAM", and "CRAM". Can you define these?
At the begining of the manaual, it specifies how it's been specially designed for MI applications, but the rest of the document seems to be concerned with things like text file access and running a program. So, it can take some user code to run a program. How does it prevent IO pin conflicts with OS pins? What about memory conflicts? I think you need to make a duplicate of the Prop-Tool, but that is specifically designed for programming in your OS (ie, it takes care of this automatically).
Can we get some videos from Dr. Jim about using the OS and more technical details?
Finally, I think you need a copy editor. Quite frankly, the publication of the document is terrible. There are misplaced or missing capitalizations, terms are not defined before they're used, and it could use some more formatting (aka, it looks like an overeager yet inept publish job). In addition, it needs more photographs (or graphics at least) to break up the monotony.
Post Edited (SRLM) : 8/16/2009 6:51:01 AM GMT