Jimmy said...
I am planning on riding my bike to the expo
I hope that you're talking about a motorcycle, rather than a bicycle? It's a 600 mile ride otherwise. On a fully loaded touring bicycle you can expect to make about 50 miles a day average if you are in good shape, so 24 days of traveling... I hope you have the vacation time!
Anybody on the east coast or thereabouts up for a drive straight through? We used to do this going back and forth from Pennsylvania to New Mexico when I was in school (40 years ago). We could do the trip in 40 hours, only stopping for gas and food.
Ohhhhh - come on Wizard. It takes learning and trying and failing and learning in order to be successful, stick with it.
Sailman, nice idea about driving straight through. Prehaps if you got a car full of Propeller Geeks you could also do a project while travelings. Taking turns coding or wiring or soldering while driving (the passengers, not the driver). Then if someone has cell wifi access they can blog about it while making the big journey.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I. www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope www.tdswieter.com
Something always comes up at the last minute, but this is about a 10(ish) hour drive from Portland on the dead run, so I will try my absolute best to make it.· Sounds like great fun.
That's a plan... If I can get a woman to go along, I'm planning on stopping to see my ex-mother-in-law. Otherwise I'll be hitting up PalaceStation for a couple of hours. Maybe we can get some others to join us in a Prop parade through Southern California...
PropFest 2009!!!!
By the way... if any of you would like to go, but can't afford two tickets and also can't stand the idea of leaving your loved one at home... you can send her with me and you can fly. It is worth it to me just to see the look on my ex-mother-in-law's face[noparse]:)[/noparse]
I want to thank you for putting these expos together! I know it's quite a bit of hard work!
I never heard the official answer... is it ok to ship things out to Parallax ahead of the show? It really wouldn't be practical for get all my things on a plane.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
The answer to all of your questions is yes, yes and yes. Send anything to my attention. Our staff is already assembling piles of Parallax "junk" for the scavengers. You wouldn't believe some of the goodies we need to cast off from returns, failed production runs, betas, etc. There are some real treasures waiting for you guys. I'll be busy metering the disbursement of aforementioned treasures.
What I really like about this event is that OBC will organize it, and we're here to make it work for him and the guests, and any vendors. Anybody can bring their stuff and sell it at our office. OBC should probably post photos of the meeting room - it's a big Suite that we keep open for these events.
Since OBC posted dates I've already had two interesting telephone calls today from some of the key brain-customers. We've had them at our office before, and they get a bit nutty in the presence of like minds. All kinds of interesting projects happened during and after their last visit.
I hope OBC will be keeping some kind of registration because this event stands the chance of exceeding our capacity (100-200 people, max). If needed we can put up some project tents in the parking lot, too, making the attendance have no limit. Parking isn't an issue, BTW.
I'll be announcing a reservation address and a official website next week.
I did indeed take pictures of the location, they are the ones that people couldn't
figure out why I took pictures of an empty room and kitchen when I took my trip
to Parallax. (I was planning ahead..) [noparse]:)[/noparse]
A while ago I registered propellerexpo.com and propellerexpo.net (for the first expo, but never got a page up to help OBC). Ken if you recall you and I worked out a deal to , transfer it to Parallax for future use. The domain names are still in my account, but we can transfer them and you can use those domains to setup a site for the upcoming expos. PM or e-mail me and we can work make sure the transfer happens.
I am excited. Maybe I can work it out to attend - we will see. I would love to be there and show off some new products and to get inspired by seeing what others are doing.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I. www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope www.tdswieter.com
Name
Mailing Address
Phone number
Email address
Number of people planning to attend (Please include names)
If you are planning to be a vendor
If you need table space for a project
If you are planning to demonstrate a project
NOTE: you will receive email notification that your registration has been received.
Unofficial Propeller Expo West on June 27 and 28th @ at Parallax!
oooh! Its a long way to come from Oz. But the wife just said that we should be going to meet our daughter who recently relocated to Singapore in July.
So, I said how about we go to SF with side trip to LV. While in SF, I can go to the Prop Expo
Greeted with "OK" so I will firm up soon Glad the date is fixed - have Frequent Flyers to use.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
In time maybe we can have an Asia/Pacific type of conference. Let see, I am in Hong Kong. I know there are a couple people in China using the device. Isn't Praxis in Singapore and I know there are several in Australia. Oh and don't forget Hanno and friends in New Zealand. Boy - maybe we should organize our own Prop Expo, we could have it in Hong Kong and visit the electronics market in Shenzhen, nothing beats that place for components and devices.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I. www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope www.tdswieter.com
If someone becomes serious about this, feel free to email me! I have pretty much developed
a working formula for doing this and would be happy to share planning information and advice.
Doing these expos is extremely rewarding, (and tiring, but completely worth it!)
What's the threshold on whether or not we should request table space? I have a couple of hobby-level projects I'd like to bring but I don't know if they warrant requesting a table. I wouldn't want to take up the space if it's meant for people showing off finished products and/or commercial stuff...
I will make sure there is plenty of table space for anyone who want to setup their projects.
If you need space to display or work on projects, don't hesitate to ask!
Unfortunately I think it will be the other way around. My daughter is a teacher in Singapore, so we have to work that in and her birthday 6 July as well. Want to see the changes in LV - used to go to Comdex each year till about 96.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
If you are interested in being a vendor or guest speaker at UPEW please contact me!
Being a guest speaker does not imply professional speaking. (Although I'm sure it will help if you are comfortable standing in front of a group of people. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
If you would like to demonstrate your Propeller ideas or project for the group,
please contact me! That project might just be geek-fun to you, but sharing it
will inspire other attendees!
Being a vendor does not imply that you have a store.
If you have Propeller based or related products that you have made and would like to
share them, please contact me. Those "extra" boards that you had to order for your
last PCB run will be of value to attendees! Sell'em!
Clean your SHOP
The snow is melting and you KNOW it's time to sweep and clean out that shop!
Don't throw away those parts you won't use! Pack a small box in your suitcase and
bring them for the FREEBIE TABLE! One mans trash is another mans treasure.
Bring your SHOP (or part of it)
We will have plenty of time to work on projects, share ideas while in the company of like minds!
Keep an eye on this thread and the official website for more on UPEW as we get closer!
Details for Hotel Reservation:
===================
The Rocklin Hotel is a very nice new hotel just one mile away from Parallax.
Please make sure you specify "special June conference group rate." when reserving your room.
They have given us the following great rates.
Studio Suite: $84
1 Bedroom Suite: $94
Both rooms have full kitchens with dishes and utensils, and living room. The 1 bedroom suite has a separate bedroom from the living and kitchen area. They also have free internet service and a very nice hot breakfast buffet.
We need to reserve the rooms to make sure there is room for everyone. Although Parallax is not paying for the hotel it would be nice if everyone was able to stay at the same place.
I will be hosting a little "unofficial" reception the night before either in my Suite, or in the courtyard.
(watch for it)
The Hotel would like us to have everyone register by June 5, which is 3 weeks before the conference.
Each person will need to call the hotel directly to make their reservations. They will need to say that they are with the Parallax Group Conference on June 26 and 27, and they will get the special rates. At that time they will need a credit card to reserve their room. If an individual cancels within 48 hours of arrival they will forfeit one nights fee plus tax. ($90.72)
I was thinking a competition of some sort would be fun to have, and fairly easy to implement (register people, have a short schedule, write rules, give prizes). You could probably have the prize be supported by entry fees. Something like $5 or $10 would be perfectly reasonable, and help get you committed contestants. Anyway, a competition would be fun to show off various robots. I was thinking of two different contests, explained below. I particularly like the lighthouse one. If you want me to, I can go ahead and formalize some rules into a document.
1. Navigate autonomously as quickly as possible a series of waypoints in a parking lot. The waypoints would be given by GPS coordinates and distances/angles (for odometry based robots) before the contest. An hour would be given to the teams to load the information into their robot and make any changes. Then, the robots would zip and zoom from one coordinate (given by a large painted box). The course would be an open parking lot somewhere.
2. Perform the "shoring up the lighthouse" mission. This mission would consist of a playing field with obstacles, and a 'lighthouse' area at the end of the field. The backstory is that a storm is coming, and the lighthouse needs to be shored up with rocks to protect it against the waves. The robot would have to navigate from one end of the field to another, push rocks (crumpled pieces of paper or the like) against the lighthouse, and navigate back to the starting area. Since the rock pushing would be rather difficult, I was thinking that section could be remotely controlled. The rest would be autonomous though. A couple of notes about this one:
---Victory is the fastest robot
---The playing field would be litered with randomly placed obstacles (concrete cinder blocks)
---The lighthouse could output a modulated IR signal to aid in navigation.
Anyway, these contests aren't meant to steal attention from any of the other activities. Rather, it's to stimulate participant involvement and it doesn't need to be enormous or distracting to be effective. And like I said, if you decide to have these (or other) contests, I'm willing to write up documentation and forums and whatnot to help out.
Comments
I hope that you're talking about a motorcycle, rather than a bicycle? It's a 600 mile ride otherwise. On a fully loaded touring bicycle you can expect to make about 50 miles a day average if you are in good shape, so 24 days of traveling... I hope you have the vacation time!
Ron
Sailman, nice idea about driving straight through. Prehaps if you got a car full of Propeller Geeks you could also do a project while travelings. Taking turns coding or wiring or soldering while driving (the passengers, not the driver). Then if someone has cell wifi access they can blog about it while making the big journey.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope
www.tdswieter.com
- Earl
That's a plan... If I can get a woman to go along, I'm planning on stopping to see my ex-mother-in-law. Otherwise I'll be hitting up PalaceStation for a couple of hours. Maybe we can get some others to join us in a Prop parade through Southern California...
PropFest 2009!!!!
By the way... if any of you would like to go, but can't afford two tickets and also can't stand the idea of leaving your loved one at home... you can send her with me and you can fly. It is worth it to me just to see the look on my ex-mother-in-law's face[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Rich
Post Edited (rjo_) : 2/10/2009 6:18:43 PM GMT
Propeller West Expo on June 27 and 28th @ at Parallax!
This is an all-nighter collection of tech-heads, presenters, and even other vendors who share common interests in the Propeller.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
I want to thank you for putting these expos together! I know it's quite a bit of hard work!
I never heard the official answer... is it ok to ship things out to Parallax ahead of the show? It really wouldn't be practical for get all my things on a plane.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board
The answer to all of your questions is yes, yes and yes. Send anything to my attention. Our staff is already assembling piles of Parallax "junk" for the scavengers. You wouldn't believe some of the goodies we need to cast off from returns, failed production runs, betas, etc. There are some real treasures waiting for you guys. I'll be busy metering the disbursement of aforementioned treasures.
What I really like about this event is that OBC will organize it, and we're here to make it work for him and the guests, and any vendors. Anybody can bring their stuff and sell it at our office. OBC should probably post photos of the meeting room - it's a big Suite that we keep open for these events.
Since OBC posted dates I've already had two interesting telephone calls today from some of the key brain-customers. We've had them at our office before, and they get a bit nutty in the presence of like minds. All kinds of interesting projects happened during and after their last visit.
I hope OBC will be keeping some kind of registration because this event stands the chance of exceeding our capacity (100-200 people, max). If needed we can put up some project tents in the parking lot, too, making the attendance have no limit. Parking isn't an issue, BTW.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
I'll be announcing a reservation address and a official website next week.
I did indeed take pictures of the location, they are the ones that people couldn't
figure out why I took pictures of an empty room and kitchen when I took my trip
to Parallax. (I was planning ahead..) [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
A while ago I registered propellerexpo.com and propellerexpo.net (for the first expo, but never got a page up to help OBC). Ken if you recall you and I worked out a deal to , transfer it to Parallax for future use. The domain names are still in my account, but we can transfer them and you can use those domains to setup a site for the upcoming expos. PM or e-mail me and we can work make sure the transfer happens.
I am excited. Maybe I can work it out to attend - we will see. I would love to be there and show off some new products and to get inspired by seeing what others are doing.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope
www.tdswieter.com
Would you mind pointing them toward my Warrantyvoid pages this year?
I'll be establishing pages for both Expo's (UPENE & UPEW) this week.
Thanks!
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
I am not in that kind of shape.. I program for a living so.... yah. I am probably going to be riding my BMW or GSXR down.
Email the following to: upew@warrantyvoid.us
Name
Mailing Address
Phone number
Email address
Number of people planning to attend (Please include names)
If you are planning to be a vendor
If you need table space for a project
If you are planning to demonstrate a project
NOTE: you will receive email notification that your registration has been received.
Unofficial Propeller Expo West on June 27 and 28th @ at Parallax!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
Just come and bring your Propeller stuff!
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
PG
So, I said how about we go to SF with side trip to LV. While in SF, I can go to the Prop Expo
Greeted with "OK" so I will firm up soon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
In time maybe we can have an Asia/Pacific type of conference. Let see, I am in Hong Kong. I know there are a couple people in China using the device. Isn't Praxis in Singapore and I know there are several in Australia. Oh and don't forget Hanno and friends in New Zealand. Boy - maybe we should organize our own Prop Expo, we could have it in Hong Kong and visit the electronics market in Shenzhen, nothing beats that place for components and devices.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope
www.tdswieter.com
If someone becomes serious about this, feel free to email me! I have pretty much developed
a working formula for doing this and would be happy to share planning information and advice.
Doing these expos is extremely rewarding, (and tiring, but completely worth it!)
"If you built it, they will come."
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
What's the threshold on whether or not we should request table space? I have a couple of hobby-level projects I'd like to bring but I don't know if they warrant requesting a table. I wouldn't want to take up the space if it's meant for people showing off finished products and/or commercial stuff...
Mike
If you need space to display or work on projects, don't hesitate to ask!
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 2/16/2009 6:24:10 PM GMT
You could go to LV first, rent a car and then join our parade to PropFest!!!!
Rich
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
www.warrantyvoid.us/upew/
If you are interested in being a vendor or guest speaker at UPEW please contact me!
Being a guest speaker does not imply professional speaking.
(Although I'm sure it will help if you are comfortable standing in front of a group of people. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
If you would like to demonstrate your Propeller ideas or project for the group,
please contact me! That project might just be geek-fun to you, but sharing it
will inspire other attendees!
Being a vendor does not imply that you have a store.
If you have Propeller based or related products that you have made and would like to
share them, please contact me. Those "extra" boards that you had to order for your
last PCB run will be of value to attendees! Sell'em!
Clean your SHOP
The snow is melting and you KNOW it's time to sweep and clean out that shop!
Don't throw away those parts you won't use! Pack a small box in your suitcase and
bring them for the FREEBIE TABLE! One mans trash is another mans treasure.
Bring your SHOP (or part of it)
We will have plenty of time to work on projects, share ideas while in the company of like minds!
Keep an eye on this thread and the official website for more on UPEW as we get closer!
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Signature space for rent, only $1.
Send cash and signature to CannibalRobotics.
More information regarding hotel discounts to be posted soon!
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
===================
The Rocklin Hotel is a very nice new hotel just one mile away from Parallax.
Please make sure you specify "special June conference group rate." when reserving your room.
They have given us the following great rates.
Studio Suite: $84
1 Bedroom Suite: $94
Both rooms have full kitchens with dishes and utensils, and living room. The 1 bedroom suite has a separate bedroom from the living and kitchen area. They also have free internet service and a very nice hot breakfast buffet.
We need to reserve the rooms to make sure there is room for everyone. Although Parallax is not paying for the hotel it would be nice if everyone was able to stay at the same place.
I will be hosting a little "unofficial" reception the night before either in my Suite, or in the courtyard.
(watch for it)
The Hotel would like us to have everyone register by June 5, which is 3 weeks before the conference.
Each person will need to call the hotel directly to make their reservations. They will need to say that they are with the Parallax Group Conference on June 26 and 27, and they will get the special rates. At that time they will need a credit card to reserve their room. If an individual cancels within 48 hours of arrival they will forfeit one nights fee plus tax. ($90.72)
Hotel phone number is: 916-781-7500
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 3/20/2009 4:37:33 PM GMT
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board
1. Navigate autonomously as quickly as possible a series of waypoints in a parking lot. The waypoints would be given by GPS coordinates and distances/angles (for odometry based robots) before the contest. An hour would be given to the teams to load the information into their robot and make any changes. Then, the robots would zip and zoom from one coordinate (given by a large painted box). The course would be an open parking lot somewhere.
2. Perform the "shoring up the lighthouse" mission. This mission would consist of a playing field with obstacles, and a 'lighthouse' area at the end of the field. The backstory is that a storm is coming, and the lighthouse needs to be shored up with rocks to protect it against the waves. The robot would have to navigate from one end of the field to another, push rocks (crumpled pieces of paper or the like) against the lighthouse, and navigate back to the starting area. Since the rock pushing would be rather difficult, I was thinking that section could be remotely controlled. The rest would be autonomous though. A couple of notes about this one:
---Victory is the fastest robot
---The playing field would be litered with randomly placed obstacles (concrete cinder blocks)
---The lighthouse could output a modulated IR signal to aid in navigation.
Anyway, these contests aren't meant to steal attention from any of the other activities. Rather, it's to stimulate participant involvement and it doesn't need to be enormous or distracting to be effective. And like I said, if you decide to have these (or other) contests, I'm willing to write up documentation and forums and whatnot to help out.