At least on my Android (8.0.0) phone, this time was different than the other occasions; the registration link tried to throw me, right into the yet not started meeting, and also invited me to initiate it, provided I was the host.
In a second try, now under Windows (8.1) it worked as expected, confirmation email received, with all the bells and whistles appended to it.
It's a pity that this is now at 11-12 PM for most Europeans, was fun to participate live last week. Would it be possible to have at least one webinar per month a bit earlier?
It's a pity that this is now at 11-12 PM for most Europeans, was fun to participate live last week. Would it be possible to have at least one webinar per month a bit earlier?
I'm happy to move them all earlier if desired. We'll get a poll today of possible alternate times.
Just noticed tomorrow’s zoom has wrong date 2nd. Not sure if it matters.
The date listed in the post is incorrect and has been changed to the 4th (today) but the Zoom link/calendar invite were always correct -- in case anybody got confused with this.
It's a pity that this is now at 11-12 PM for most Europeans, was fun to participate live last week. Would it be possible to have at least one webinar per month a bit earlier?
I'm happy to move them all earlier if desired. We'll get a poll today of possible alternate times.
Ken Gracey
Great! I won't be able to join and participate in the poll, but for me personally 2-3 hours earlier would be perfect. Even just 1 hour earlier would suffice, although I would then probably not stick to the end of the marath... sorry, webinar
I know there's no perfect time that suits everyone, that's why I suggested alternating times as one option.
I personally think it is better for the recorded videos to be selected from those that have well-themed and cohesive content.
The weekly open forum doesn't make for good youtube watching unless you are part of or familiar with the community here.
([edit] in contrast to the themed sessions with agendas and more prepared material)
I like that we can have more free-form discussions, but wouldn't ask any newcomer to slog through the longer form meetings we've had lately.
There is a ton of editing that would be needed to even pick out highlights.
Given that Ken and Chip and crew are already neck deep in things to do, I think it's more appropriate to pick and choose here.
(Just my unvarnished opinion)
I personally think it is better for the recorded videos to be selected from those that have well-themed and cohesive content.
The weekly open forum doesn't make for good youtube watching unless you are part of or familiar with the community here.
([edit] in contrast to the themed sessions with agendas and more prepared material)
I like that we can have more free-form discussions, but wouldn't ask any newcomer to slog through the longer form meetings we've had lately.
There is a ton of editing that would be needed to even pick out highlights.
Given that Ken and Chip and crew are already neck deep in things to do, I think it's more appropriate to pick and choose here.
(Just my unvarnished opinion)
I've struggled with this as well. I receive lots of feedback on the P2 Live Forums. Everybody really likes the concept and here's a summary of the feedback:
- people want topics, presenters, getting started material with an agenda
- everybody likes conversational content around the P2, even the improv contributions/questions/answers
- it's best to have a scheduled topic, even if it's for 15 minutes, then the free-for-all
I think the best way forward is to keep the main topic (if there is one) early in the P2 Live Forum. This way, people who show up to learn can do exactly that. This provides a useful draw for anybody interested, rather than a loosely-organized hangout. Those who want to watch the most important parts of the YouTube video may find their answers upfront. People can tune out of YouTube when their interest level decays.
As for the video, I tend to stop recording after an hour or more. When I pass the presenter to Chip (and leave the meeting, to get back to work) he has to restart his own recording. I don't often splice these together because it takes a bunch of time -- and as you pointed out, the content can be marginal.
I'll continue to capture most of these events and post to YouTube. As you notice, I'm late. Like Twyyx said, editing these videos down is totally out of the question. There's no way. It's been absolute chaos inside Parallax. Between the COVID-19 rules, staff absences, the new website (which reverted us to manual order entry) and the new P2 boards we've fallen far behind in manufacturing. The cost of running a business in California only goes up, just like health care. The last week I've spent three days in our manufacturing, doing assembly myself and closely managing the team. I've had to send home hardware for testing, kitting, labeling, etc. The JonnyMac boards were initially targeted at $49, but we've got to be realistic. . .they cost us that much to make with manufacturing labor. So today I quietly increased them to $79 and truly hope that our customers find the same value in them that we do. When you have limited engineering time and you want proper support and service, fifty bucks simply can't provide this level of support when made in the USA.
I think there are people who have enough time and patience to absorb what they can from the longer unedited sessions, and then there's everybody else.
Cutting down the sessions into something with a table of contents, time indexes to interesting and specific parts, and removing the idle elements of the discussion is what would be required to make these even approachable by the casual (or mildly interested) passer-by. However what one person finds interesting and joyful another will find as filler, and everyone has their own reasons for why.
In any case, it seems that these videos should be helpful to others who are not already here. I think if we agree on this part, the other concerns are easier to figure out.
Personally I'm not opposed to the longer uncut versions being available, only the notion that they should all be pushed to the front as the premier jumping in point for new users. It's too much video!
If we were able to see them organized in a way that bubbled the most interesting and useful clips and segments to the top, based on community input, with the longer unedited versions somewhere else, that would serve both audiences. But if we have only one primary showcase for these (which is the case right now), then I would always choose the abridged version. I say this because those who need to see them most are also not generally inclined to sort through even a 2 hour version, or even a 30 minute version to find the gems.
The main problem with this approach is that it takes time and resources to manage, and asking for more is quite mechanically the same as asking for the Gracey crew and friends to stop doing other things.
Alternatives could be:
1) Make a judgement call on a video-by-video basis whether it is focused well enough around a theme to be included in the showcase view. Put the other ones (if Parallax desires) into another place, or under another link for the truly interested.
2) Parallax takes this on with a dedicated editor/contract. Someone has a license to leave things on the cutting room floor. It's a judgement call. Someone needs to do it.
3) Entrust editing to a volunteer. (This is iffy as many of us are highly passionate about things, a good thing in general, but it has high potential energy that can backfire when someone doesn't like the editing.)
4) Community voting for the "best gems of the live sessions" to be included, so every one feels invested in bubbling the best content to the top. This could be accommodated if someone had the time to segment the main sessions into shorter pieces and curate them for title and subject matter. (Something that isn't as subjective as full-on editing). This would allow us to "vote" for them as a community simply by using the thumbs-up, and it would (probably more importantly) allow others outside this amazing community to jump in with their own votes.
I'm just trying to put more ideas into the test chamber here.
I think there are people who have enough time and patience to absorb what they can from the longer unedited sessions, and then there's everybody else.
Cutting down the sessions into something with a table of contents, time indexes to interesting and specific parts, and removing the idle elements of the discussion is what would be required to make these even approachable by the casual (or mildly interested) passer-by. However what one person finds interesting and joyful another will find as filler, and everyone has their own reasons for why.
In any case, it seems that these videos should be helpful to others who are not already here. I think if we agree on this part, the other concerns are easier to figure out.
Personally I'm not opposed to the longer uncut versions being available, only the notion that they should all be pushed to the front as the premier jumping in point for new users. It's too much video!
If we were able to see them organized in a way that bubbled the most interesting and useful clips and segments to the top, based on community input, with the longer unedited versions somewhere else, that would serve both audiences. But if we have only one primary showcase for these (which is the case right now), then I would always choose the abridged version. I say this because those who need to see them most are also not generally inclined to sort through even a 2 hour version, or even a 30 minute version to find the gems.
The main problem with this approach is that it takes time and resources to manage, and asking for more is quite mechanically the same as asking for the Gracey crew and friends to stop doing other things.
Alternatives could be:
1) Make a judgement call on a video-by-video basis whether it is focused well enough around a theme to be included in the showcase view. Put the other ones (if Parallax desires) into another place, or under another link for the truly interested.
2) Parallax takes this on with a dedicated editor/contract. Someone has a license to leave things on the cutting room floor. It's a judgement call. Someone needs to do it.
3) Entrust editing to a volunteer. (This is iffy as many of us are highly passionate about things, a good thing in general, but it has high potential energy that can backfire when someone doesn't like the editing.)
4) Community voting for the "best gems of the live sessions" to be included, so every one feels invested in bubbling the best content to the top. This could be accommodated if someone had the time to segment the main sessions into shorter pieces and curate them for title and subject matter. (Something that isn't as subjective as full-on editing). This would allow us to "vote" for them as a community simply by using the thumbs-up, and it would (probably more importantly) allow others outside this amazing community to jump in with their own votes.
I'm just trying to put more ideas into the test chamber here.
I like your thinking. My thoughts back:
1) Takes time to go back and find the quality content for the showcase. But this is a great idea.
2) Good possibility, but not at the moment. We're still righting the ship after P2 and wouldn't easily hand this over to a contractor.
3) Closer to our reality! I have all the native source for each video.
4) My top pick. At a minimum, we'd like to know which videos the community really likes the best, and showcase them. I'd think the YouTube rating system does this for us through likes/dislikes, but this seems rather shallow compared to your vision.
We've got the same interests here and need to find the way to get from A to B. We'd need some assistance from somebody with a lot of time, judgement, and consistency to achieve much more than we're doing.
I think I've tried to focus the effort on simply having good source material (putting the presenter first, stopping recording early, etc) but it seems that omits some of the hidden gems you've mentioned. Maybe there's no way around simply editing these files.
my 2c
I think the non-topic meetups and the general discussion after the main meetup are better left off. This way the youtube videos have the meat without the distractions. Otherwise they will become noise and disenfranchise the people we want to encourage.
You might be able to post these other video files somewhere other than youtube where people can get them if they want.
disenfranchise ??? I am not sure, if I can translate this correct.
I can think for my self! I do not need censorship.
If the title of the video is 'Open Discussion', I know that's not a special topic.
Ken starts with his news and plans, says where it's a delay, problem, ...... as he does usally.
Then I can keep watching, fast forward, switch off. Usually I stick to it, because there is always some information or a new point of view.
I have to say I enjoy the casual conversation after. The problem for me in the UK is it starts at 10pm and by midnight I am falling asleep and miss most of the meeting- that means five ours missed in some cases. I am quite capable of skipping bits when reviewing later if I feel the need. Listening to what people are doing with their lives at a time when I hardly see anyone from one week to another during lockdown is very uplifting. I hope the whole meeting gets posted so I can dip in as and when I like.
I agree that sometimes the discussions can get a little deeper than my understanding. Once upon a time the thought of 8 cores on a chip set my hair on fire.
I too know how to fast forward a video! Todays conversation, that goes over my head, might not even begin to engage me a year from now.
If the latest and greatest news and commentary are handled at the begin, or in the beginning we are told they will be answered after whoevers slideshow, then the rest of the meet is what it is. We either watch it or we don't.
But what if it isn't there?
Besides that, I would much rather have Chip put me to sleep for free, than watch the Smile I pay streaming services for.
Comments
Link to video from last week, which was a productive P2 Live Forum.
Added registration for this week, special guest presenter Eric Smith talks FlexBASIC for P2!
Ken Gracey
I note in the latest video you had a timeline that included the Prop2 "Hot". A couple of comments on that: One, the design was abandoned without any silicon cast, afaik. Second, the year was 2014, not 2016, that Chip started over. Here's the post - https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/155132/the-new-16-cog-512kb-64-analog-i-o-propeller-chip/p1
At least on my Android (8.0.0) phone, this time was different than the other occasions; the registration link tried to throw me, right into the yet not started meeting, and also invited me to initiate it, provided I was the host.
In a second try, now under Windows (8.1) it worked as expected, confirmation email received, with all the bells and whistles appended to it.
I'm happy to move them all earlier if desired. We'll get a poll today of possible alternate times.
Ken Gracey
The date listed in the post is incorrect and has been changed to the 4th (today) but the Zoom link/calendar invite were always correct -- in case anybody got confused with this.
Ken
Great! I won't be able to join and participate in the poll, but for me personally 2-3 hours earlier would be perfect. Even just 1 hour earlier would suffice, although I would then probably not stick to the end of the marath... sorry, webinar
I know there's no perfect time that suits everyone, that's why I suggested alternating times as one option.
Updates from Cluso99 on RetroBlade2 and Peter Jakacki's P2D2, both efforts which have been subject to much positive forum attention lately.
See the first post for registration!
Ken Gracey
43 minutes until upload is complete.
- Ken
Mike
Ken Gracey
Ken Gracey
No forum tonight???
Dave
Ken Gracey
Goodoh, was wondering what I was going to do with my wednesday night/morning.
Dave
Please...
No videos anymore or is something wrong with my youtube?
The weekly open forum doesn't make for good youtube watching unless you are part of or familiar with the community here.
([edit] in contrast to the themed sessions with agendas and more prepared material)
I like that we can have more free-form discussions, but wouldn't ask any newcomer to slog through the longer form meetings we've had lately.
There is a ton of editing that would be needed to even pick out highlights.
Given that Ken and Chip and crew are already neck deep in things to do, I think it's more appropriate to pick and choose here.
(Just my unvarnished opinion)
even the last 7 hour marathon I took part of (I missed some) should be available without any editing.
You would not like to have threads shortened, or would you?
Whoever decides to watch them can do so or - hmm - skip parts or not watch it at all.
But it should be available for those who need to review some of the questions answered by people familiar with the subject.
Or just interested in the details offered in those free form discussions.
Anyways,
Mike
I've struggled with this as well. I receive lots of feedback on the P2 Live Forums. Everybody really likes the concept and here's a summary of the feedback:
- people want topics, presenters, getting started material with an agenda
- everybody likes conversational content around the P2, even the improv contributions/questions/answers
- it's best to have a scheduled topic, even if it's for 15 minutes, then the free-for-all
I think the best way forward is to keep the main topic (if there is one) early in the P2 Live Forum. This way, people who show up to learn can do exactly that. This provides a useful draw for anybody interested, rather than a loosely-organized hangout. Those who want to watch the most important parts of the YouTube video may find their answers upfront. People can tune out of YouTube when their interest level decays.
As for the video, I tend to stop recording after an hour or more. When I pass the presenter to Chip (and leave the meeting, to get back to work) he has to restart his own recording. I don't often splice these together because it takes a bunch of time -- and as you pointed out, the content can be marginal.
I'll continue to capture most of these events and post to YouTube. As you notice, I'm late. Like Twyyx said, editing these videos down is totally out of the question. There's no way. It's been absolute chaos inside Parallax. Between the COVID-19 rules, staff absences, the new website (which reverted us to manual order entry) and the new P2 boards we've fallen far behind in manufacturing. The cost of running a business in California only goes up, just like health care. The last week I've spent three days in our manufacturing, doing assembly myself and closely managing the team. I've had to send home hardware for testing, kitting, labeling, etc. The JonnyMac boards were initially targeted at $49, but we've got to be realistic. . .they cost us that much to make with manufacturing labor. So today I quietly increased them to $79 and truly hope that our customers find the same value in them that we do. When you have limited engineering time and you want proper support and service, fifty bucks simply can't provide this level of support when made in the USA.
Keep the feedback flowing!
Ken Gracey
Cutting down the sessions into something with a table of contents, time indexes to interesting and specific parts, and removing the idle elements of the discussion is what would be required to make these even approachable by the casual (or mildly interested) passer-by. However what one person finds interesting and joyful another will find as filler, and everyone has their own reasons for why.
In any case, it seems that these videos should be helpful to others who are not already here. I think if we agree on this part, the other concerns are easier to figure out.
Personally I'm not opposed to the longer uncut versions being available, only the notion that they should all be pushed to the front as the premier jumping in point for new users. It's too much video!
If we were able to see them organized in a way that bubbled the most interesting and useful clips and segments to the top, based on community input, with the longer unedited versions somewhere else, that would serve both audiences. But if we have only one primary showcase for these (which is the case right now), then I would always choose the abridged version. I say this because those who need to see them most are also not generally inclined to sort through even a 2 hour version, or even a 30 minute version to find the gems.
The main problem with this approach is that it takes time and resources to manage, and asking for more is quite mechanically the same as asking for the Gracey crew and friends to stop doing other things.
Alternatives could be:
1) Make a judgement call on a video-by-video basis whether it is focused well enough around a theme to be included in the showcase view. Put the other ones (if Parallax desires) into another place, or under another link for the truly interested.
2) Parallax takes this on with a dedicated editor/contract. Someone has a license to leave things on the cutting room floor. It's a judgement call. Someone needs to do it.
3) Entrust editing to a volunteer. (This is iffy as many of us are highly passionate about things, a good thing in general, but it has high potential energy that can backfire when someone doesn't like the editing.)
4) Community voting for the "best gems of the live sessions" to be included, so every one feels invested in bubbling the best content to the top. This could be accommodated if someone had the time to segment the main sessions into shorter pieces and curate them for title and subject matter. (Something that isn't as subjective as full-on editing). This would allow us to "vote" for them as a community simply by using the thumbs-up, and it would (probably more importantly) allow others outside this amazing community to jump in with their own votes.
I'm just trying to put more ideas into the test chamber here.
I like your thinking. My thoughts back:
1) Takes time to go back and find the quality content for the showcase. But this is a great idea.
2) Good possibility, but not at the moment. We're still righting the ship after P2 and wouldn't easily hand this over to a contractor.
3) Closer to our reality! I have all the native source for each video.
4) My top pick. At a minimum, we'd like to know which videos the community really likes the best, and showcase them. I'd think the YouTube rating system does this for us through likes/dislikes, but this seems rather shallow compared to your vision.
We've got the same interests here and need to find the way to get from A to B. We'd need some assistance from somebody with a lot of time, judgement, and consistency to achieve much more than we're doing.
I think I've tried to focus the effort on simply having good source material (putting the presenter first, stopping recording early, etc) but it seems that omits some of the hidden gems you've mentioned. Maybe there's no way around simply editing these files.
Ken Gracey
I think the non-topic meetups and the general discussion after the main meetup are better left off. This way the youtube videos have the meat without the distractions. Otherwise they will become noise and disenfranchise the people we want to encourage.
You might be able to post these other video files somewhere other than youtube where people can get them if they want.
I can think for my self! I do not need censorship.
If the title of the video is 'Open Discussion', I know that's not a special topic.
Ken starts with his news and plans, says where it's a delay, problem, ...... as he does usally.
Then I can keep watching, fast forward, switch off. Usually I stick to it, because there is always some information or a new point of view.
But do what you think is right.
I have to say I enjoy the casual conversation after. The problem for me in the UK is it starts at 10pm and by midnight I am falling asleep and miss most of the meeting- that means five ours missed in some cases. I am quite capable of skipping bits when reviewing later if I feel the need. Listening to what people are doing with their lives at a time when I hardly see anyone from one week to another during lockdown is very uplifting. I hope the whole meeting gets posted so I can dip in as and when I like.
Dave
I too know how to fast forward a video! Todays conversation, that goes over my head, might not even begin to engage me a year from now.
If the latest and greatest news and commentary are handled at the begin, or in the beginning we are told they will be answered after whoevers slideshow, then the rest of the meet is what it is. We either watch it or we don't.
But what if it isn't there?
Besides that, I would much rather have Chip put me to sleep for free, than watch the Smile I pay streaming services for.