I've found extundelete. It's probably too late now, due to the amount of writes that occurred after I made the mistake, but I've turned that PC off for the moment and am about to download latest LTS and start a fresh install of Kubuntu on another partition so then I can remount the damaged volume for repair ...
... Oh, Smile, I just force deleted all my important files. ****! That's gonna hurt. Not much in the way of backups here. Anyone now how to undelete files on an ext4 volume?
I've found extundelete. It's probably too late now, due to the amount of writes that occurred after I made the mistake, but I've turned that PC off for the moment and am about to download latest LTS and start a fresh install of Kubuntu on another partition so then I can remount the damaged volume for repair ...
Yet another testament of the user friendliness of Linux...
Yet another testament of the user friendliness of Linux...
I'm not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or not but it makes no sense which ever way one takes it.
On my Linux machine I can remove files using the KDE GUI file manager, in which case they get moved to "trash" from where they can be recovered.
Or I can delete them using the command line. In which case recovery is unlikely.
Much the same as what happens on Windows and Mac I believe.
Anyway,flying without backups is going to lead to tears eventually on any OS.
My own experience with switching from Windows to Linux is that there is a learning period where some big disasters are likely.
I have tried to emphasize that the migration is best experiences by staying with your old Windows system for critical stuff while learning how Linux works on a different computer. This was made easy for my by having a tin EeePC for my first Linux system.
And since LInux really lets the user get into more of the nuts and bolts of the OS, there is a greater hazard to break the OS... in the beginner. Sooner or later one learns how to handle all that additional power in a reasonable way.
Windows may seem friendlier, but in the end I found it wasn't a loyal friend. Just look at the support advice.
A. Ask someone you know or search our web support
B. Hire a Windows expert
C. Try our for fee services if A and B don't work out.
Sadly, no luck at all. What was restored, 500 odd unnamed files via the journal, were 100% nulls! I was way too lax in many ways and Murphy got me a good one.
I had to jump through some hoops to get an up to date undeleter that could handle my filesystem but in the end I don't think anything was going to help. Not even an immediate shutdown the moment I deleted would have helped.
The reason: I'm using a SSD with immediate TRIM enabled.
LOL, If you want a fast secure data destruction method then this might be a good way to go.
Well, EXT2, EXT3, and EXT4 are journalizing file systems and do retain several copies in duplicate of all the recent changes.
Windows NTFS is also a journalizing file system, and that is needed to support such recovery software.
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Personally, I prefer using EXT3 as it has a very good track record. In some ways, EXT4 is too new and has yet to prove its worth.
This may be a situation where EXT3 might have recovered, but EXT4 could not. We will never know for sure. You can't easily roll back an EXT4 hard disk to EXT3. I believe it requires a complete re-formatting of the partitions involved.
Attention Reward offered to anyone that can get my com ports working for the basic stamp and Simple IDE.
NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT THE REWARD WILL BE.... ask and u may receive
A reward?
What I can tell you is that I frequently have one COM port situation where calling up one piece of software to use it will not release the COM port for another application.... even if I fully close the first application.
The solution --- I seem to have to power down the computer and restart it to get the COM port to open up. I am sure there are better ways to get the COM port to release, I just haven't looked into it. If someone has a good procedure, we can simply create a Shell Script to do this instead of having to reboot the computer.
But to get started, see if a reboot consistently resolves the COM being unavailable. They we can explore how to fix it.
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The BasicStamp software is a Windows applicaiton, so I guess you are using WINE. Not to sure what is going on. But the SimpleIDE in Linux will handle the COM port nicely if you just assign yourself to it's user group.
Try starting and running the SimpleIDE as the SuperUser (administrator) to verify that this is a group rights issue. It should work fine in SuperUser.
I went from never using a printer to printing everything out in full colour ... I've got stacks of paper in folders, boxes, on the wall, in the car, rubbish bins and untold amounts go through the shredder. I'm always stashing datasheets and invoices and like. It really helps keep the projects in order.
It all changed when I finally got my hands on cheap bottled ink and a printer that doesn't care about how much ink it uses from the cartridge nor what cartridges it has. The ink costs are prolly a twentieth of regular cartridge prices. Maybe even lower. Refilling is as simple as opening the lid and pouring more ink in.
I went from hating inkjets to feeling like a free man! All because of the cost of ink.
Since I got into Linux, I just print all and everything into a PDF format file ... unless it is really necessary to have a paper copy. I buy hardly any ink or paper any more and have gotten rid of a cubic yard or so of paper print outs that were old and in the way.
Well, EXT2, EXT3, and EXT4 are journalizing file systems and do retain several copies in duplicate of all the recent changes.
Really? How would it do this on a disc that is more than say 50% full? I think that's probably incorrect. If not, it sure sounds like a privacy/security issue to me.
It's true that on Windows a deleted file still remains for a while. The space it used is just marked as available for reuse, but there aren't normally a bunch of extra copies. When I delete a file I want it gone, so I use a utility that actually overwrites the data with random bits.
... and do retain several copies in duplicate of all the recent changes.
Problem is, only the filesystem metadata structures were changed, so only that would be in the journal. The file contents were erased by the drive itself as part of enabled TRIM function.
Really? How would it do this on a disc that is more than say 50% full? I think that's probably incorrect. If not, it sure sounds like a privacy/security issue to me.
It's true that on Windows a deleted file still remains for a while. The space it used is just marked as available for reuse, but there aren't normally a bunch of extra copies. When I delete a file I want it gone, so I use a utility that actually overwrites the data with random bits.
Well, the code for EXT2, 3, and 4 are open source.. unlike NTFS. So I guess you could read it to find out exactly how it journalizes. For me, I just use it and accept that it works. I am not too concerned about last ditch recovery of what I delete.
The concept is pretty much the same in all hard disks. You have a directory records in a directory tree that keep the data about the entry points for all your files. And then the sectors of the files individually point to the next sector until the end of a file marker is found. So the journalizing file systems keep duplicates of changes to the file directory tree --- not copies of all the odl stuff.
But if you are really desperate to recover data from a hard disk, hard disk manufacturers such as Seagate and Western Digital have software that will scan the entire hard disk and attempt to reconstruct as many files as it can from the data that points from one sector to the next. It does take a long long time, is rather tedious, and not 100% reliable. And of course, if you chose to encrypt your data; you only get the encrypted version.
As far as privacy and deleted data on your hard disk...
If you just request to delete, the directory marks the sectors available. But it may be a long time before anything is written to them. The data is still there. You have to use special secure delete software to overwrite the data with NULLs or nonsense... and that really slows the computer down.
I believe that the US State Department and the military do a secure and immediate delete in dire situations in a few minutes with thermite. Once the process is started, it is impossible to stop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite
The journal of journaling filesystems isn't designed for helping with recovering accidentally deleted files, it's meant to assist in recovery of a filesystem if the computer crashed while the filesystem was active. In fact it's much harder to 'undelete' files of a journaling filesystem like ext4 compared with ext2, where it's relatively straightforward. But not if it's an SSD with auto-fstrim, nothing helps with that. It's possible that filesystems like zfs or brtfs could handle that, I haven't tried but I think you can have version support right in the filesystem, or at least automatic snapshots.
Or buy Crashplan support, with automatic continuous backup with unlimited time travel.
Yeah, there was a lot of if's. Like if I had only just pressed the delete key instead of shift-delete then the directory would have only gone to the trashcan and all would have been fine. It is a bad habit I have only recently started, funnily.
The journal of journaling filesystems isn't designed for helping with recovering accidentally deleted files, it's meant to assist in recovery of a filesystem if the computer crashed while the filesystem was active. In fact it's much harder to 'undelete' files of a journaling filesystem like ext4 compared with ext2, where it's relatively straightforward. But not if it's an SSD with auto-fstrim, nothing helps with that. It's possible that filesystems like zfs or brtfs could handle that, I haven't tried but I think you can have version support right in the filesystem, or at least automatic snapshots.
Or buy Crashplan support, with automatic continuous backup with unlimited time travel.
-Tor
I don't think that NTFS was ever intended to recover the completely delete files -- unless the NSA demanded this for national security reasons. Of course,in the commercial world, there are vendors that will sell software that never works quite as well as it is supposed to and people are desperate enough to buy it.
Police shows on TV seem to perpetuate the idea that this is an easy thing to do.
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All my computers are still dual boot as I don't need the hard disk space consumed by the Winows OS. I still use a Palm Zire72 that requires Windows for the Palm Desktop to support it for installations and repair. And then there is the BasicStamp IDE. But that is about all.
I don't think that NTFS was ever intended to recover the completely delete files -- unless the NSA demanded this for national security reasons. Of course,in the commercial world, there are vendors that will sell software that never works quite as well as it is supposed to and people are desperate enough to buy it.
....
Why you are bashing NTSF? As far as I can follow the files deleted and not able to be restored where on a Linux Computer. EX2/3/4 not NTFS.
Whiteox started migration from Windows to Linux on 5-7-14. About 50+ Days later, after even having Peter J. coming over to help with the install - he finally has this running. Great. How many man hours he spend to install this free and 'cheap' OS? At what hourly rate?
No Windows user here on this forum is telling Linux users to trash there Box and install Windows. Just the other way around. Nagging and nagging about the EVIL Microsoft and the EXPENSIVE Windows Software. Well I just pay $whatever to MS as part of buying a laptop for $340 and be done with it. It just works.
In over 20 years of using Windows I never had any virusinfection or systemcrash I was not able to fix in under 2 hours. Alas I do use mostly Windows Server for Production Stuff so my Workstations//Laptops do not contain much important files. And another thing I do is that - being a Programmer for a living - I PAY for Software I want to use and do NOT install any 'hacked' Versions at all. If I can not pay for VS 2012 I do not use it. This leads to very stable Workstations without any clutter.
If you - on the other hand - install Photoshop from this download and AutoCAD from there and MS Office from your neighbor and ... then things might be different. Does anyone here REALLY believes that ADOBE does NOT know if they sold that copy of Photoshop to you or not? Or the evil MS with Visual Studio and Office? REALLY?
I never hated IBM because I wasn't able to buy a IBM/370 and run MVS. Why should I hate Microsoft? Do I also need to hate Oracle and SUN? Linus Thorwald?
Don't get me wrong here. I do NOT promote Windows in any way. Do whatever you like. I also run Linux on some FriendlyArms and try to keep two Sun Solaris Server alive in Northern Germany. And yes I just finished some job where I came in contact with MVS/390 and JCL again..
But I honestly do not get that Window/Linux bashing. Especially here in this Parallax Forums. There are more derailed Threads here moving ANY discussion to WIndows/Linux as even @Leon is able to distract to a discussion of other microcontrollers.
IMHO any Linux/Windows discussion in any Thread should be looked at by the Moderators as being POLITICAL and RELIGOUS. Thus should be locked instantly and later on ritually burned or something like that.
I stated clearly I will stop poking fun at MS Windows for fun. Hopefully that will satisfy you.
But I do have my doubts that MS products have ever been as secure as Linux.
In over 20 years of using Windows, I did have complete and catastropic data losses even though I paid for Antivirus software and did complete backups. Backups to CDs and magnetic tape often did not restore. Antivirus software from Norton would force out antivirus software from other vendors. Windows would automatically force out Apple software such a RealPlayer that I installed to listen to BBC Chinese lessons. The whole experience was messy, expensive, and petty. I suppose that if you and your clients have deep enough pockets for top of the line Windows system, the stability might be quite good, but I have never been in such a position.
On the other hand, your comments about why Whiteox is taking so long on a Linux installation is that there is simply a new way to learn. You don't rely on an automated installation for everything, downloads and installations are in different places, and there are a lot of new and useful features that take a bit of time to get understood. Have you ever learned UNIX. If so, I suspect you would understand.
Mr.Snowden has put in doubt the security of whole world wide web and more recent discovery of flaws in the encryption algorithms used by all computers leave me very wary. The encryption algorithm issues seems to have been created by a US government recommendation. OpenSSL has since resolved the problem and moved on. US corporations that are the size of MS do cooperate with the US government and the NSA or risk sanctions. Even RedHat Linux may do so as it is a US corporation.
NTFS has some features to alternatively organize and search for files that I have NEVER felt comfortable with or fully understood... possibly allowing for a backdoor. I may be confusing NTFS.sys with NTFS in general about this, but it is a concern. It is very difficult to get a clear understanding of what goes on in a proprietary OS or proprietary FS.
In the world of hacking, the first dilemma is to identify a target. Since Windows computers are most of the OSes out there, they seem to be the target of choice -- particularly XP machines as there are so many.
Secondly, Linux's open community and peer review seem to close security problems faster. Corporate culture can bumble until management gets a clear mandate from the top down to do something.
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While I will stop poking fun at MS and Windows because it is just boring and no longer fun. I do reserve the right to having an opinion about which operating system is best (which can be interpreted as the best for myself).
Locking out all and any Windows/Linux discussion as religious and political is absurd. People desire to learn about OSes and learning by comparison is fundamental.
Computers are inherently political. In the beginning, the big companies and big government did not want the average person to have personal computers. Later, I purchased a Sony CLIE PDA that has export restrictions to countries other than the USA as the USA government considered it too powerful to not have export restrictions. And some of the best Hewlett-Packard computers are never put on sale in Taiwan (even though they are made here), because of US government export restrictions.
See if you can figure out if NTFS is secure or not from the below article.
Hehe, someone's getting over sensitive. Msrobots, you gotta take Loopy's comments as a bit random. They often barely seem to follow topic.
That said, I struggle to see how the highlighted passage could be seen as an anti-M$ dig. Filesystems in general aren't designed for recovering of deleted files. The ability of tools to rescue the deleted files is more about luck than design. There is the trashcan on the desktop but that's not a function of the filesystem at all.
And as Loopy has made quite clear he was taking a shot at the NSA rather than any OS wars. Windoze is far from the only compromised system out there. And like what happened with Sony's irresponsible rookit, the compromise often leaves the target system more vulnerable to unintended hacks.
A little context may help. I live in Taiwan and have done so for about 20 years. It is a cesspool of internet security. It has been alleged that 99% if the Windows XP installed in Asia has been pirated and just about every Taiwanese that I talk to will only use an AnitVirus application that is provide free with the system purchase or via a download. They won't pay fees to renew. They will just switch to another one if they do anything.
While Windows OS may come free with the purchase of a computer, in Asia it appears Microsoft expects to recapture the losses of XP by higher than USA prices and regional licensing. A $300 notebook with Windows7 Starter can easily require another $300 or more of a copy of Windows Office in English (there may be promotional bargains in Chinese that I am not aware of). And then there is AV software and other stuff that goes on and on. Windows7 Starter is designed to strongly encourage upgrade by limiting network features like backup, file sharing, and printing.
In the case of Windows Vista, to get both English and Chinese on my free Chinese only Windows Vista, the upgrade was over $900 USD. At least Windows7 Starter does provide a language choice at the installation menus.
My experience with specifically buying fully licensed XP Profession - English and Windows Office - English for the same in Taiwan is that MS in all its wisdom presumed that I should desire any and all web based support in Chinese. This is at a time when their profit margin for sales was roughly 30%.
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BTW. the greatest irony in Taiwan is that my Taiwanese friends will NOT use Linux and prefer to limp along on a pirated version of XP or buy Windows7.
And my security concerns are not just with the US government. I presume that the Taiwan national security apparatus might show an interest in the content of my computers at any time.
But the reality is that I just try not to accumulate anything on a computer that might be used against me. There are a lot of hazards in this world with the accumulation of records that are just best avoided. I also refuse to have a cellular phone with global positioning, rarely use a credit card, and don't an ATM card for banking. All are subject to abuses in Asia and just not worth the bother.
Between LInux and Libre Office, I can get an OS that supports both English and Chinese language, a full network functionality, and ample support in English. It also seems that the Linux Samba software provides a better performing NTFS file server that what MS provides for a fee. Go figure.
Finally got my bios set to use virtual os. Put Mint 16 on. It runs but it is slower then windows. I will get familiar with it then change for real also?
Now what software do I really need?
What software do you really need? I guess SimpleIDE for Linux or Brad's Spin Tool. It all depends on what you want to do.
I don't use either LInux or Windows as a virtual OS. It may just degrade the OS system's performance (you mentioned Mint is slower than Windows and I am surprised). A virtual OS is good for a demonstration. In the case of LiveCDs you can get a better demonstartion of performance than that of a virtual OS, it just bypasses the normal boot from a hard disk.
I simply use a dual boot set up, but you have to learn how to let Windows security think it has control of the hard disk.
DO NOT add or change partition size outside of Windows in a dual boot setup. Windows tracks the number of partitions and their size (even if the partitions are not for Windows) and if the numbers are different it will no longer boot.
I have had to re install my mint 16 twice now mostly because I shoot my self in the foot learning the in and outs of the OS. It is slower but to be expected. I will re install later this fall when I have more free time.
I did find what I needed in software but was not a fan of BST but it does work. Anyhow I can program my props from either my virtual system or my Raspberry Pi. On the down side I cant see any of the Linux systems on my wireless net here (windows based) Any suggestions from anyone?
Linux is more diffucult then windows but some benefits. But I have to ask my self is it worth all the hassels? Dont want to start a holly war on this but I see benefits to both OS's. Also as far as Linux is concerned it does require much more typing then windows which is difficult for me with one good hand:nerd::nerd:
SimpleIDE in Linux will program SPIN and PASM files and load your Propeller. You don't have to use BST. It just has more features for PASM.
I presume your wireless net is Wifi. You might have to install driver software for your Wifi interface. And in some cases, wifi cards and devices are not supported in Linux. Having to reinstall at first is not that unusual. It really helps to read a good book on LInux in general.
Well, from what I understand MS owns a big chunk of 'The Cloud' and it just may be more important to their bottom line at this point.
Interesting development. One might see it as a sea change.
I have been wondering if the Japanese will jump in with an electric luxury car now that Tesla has opened up all its patents.
Panasonic sold off a big chunk of real estate that was its cathode ray tube factories to raise more liquidity recently. It must be thinking there are things to buy and lines of growth.
"Sea change"? Oh yeah this is mega. This is almost unimaginable.
Not long ago the MS boss Steve Bullmer referred to Linux as a "cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches".
Seems the cancer is going to kill MS.
I suspect MS has it's hopes in "The Cloud" realizing that no one needs a specific desktop OS any more. Problem is there are many players in the cloud already.
Interesting that business of Tesla and patents. Seems to me that the Japs or Chinese or even Detroit might flock around anything useful there and undermine Tesla. However, Elon Musk is probably speculating that having everyone jump in and set a standard actually has a great networking effect and actually grows the market for Tesla. Even if the other guys end up being much bigger.
Or it could be that Tesla is going nowhere and this is his last ditch to save the capital he sunk in to it.
Most people would rather drive around in a Benz and watch the world fall apart that ride a bicycle and save the planet.
Amazon and Netflix and the US Stock Exchange may need the cloud, but I could probably put my whole life on on 32 GByte SDcard and never us it.
Unlike the visionaries of Silicon Valley, I believe there is a point where data just becomes clutter. Sooner or later you just can't keep up with it all.
The library in Alexandria burned and civilization survived... even went forward.
Why do you say so? Where do you get these ideas from?
Tesla paid back the half billion dollar loan it go from the Department of Energy nine years early! If you check their financials they are looking very good.
Elon Musk made a pile of money out of creating stuff, like PayPal. Seems he sank most of it into projects like Tesla and SpaceX. Looks to me he is not about making money, he wants to do stuff. Good for him.
I don't know about "most people". In Holland for example you can buy a used car more cheaply than the average price of a new bicycle. But there are huge amounts of bikes on the road.
Comments
NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT THE REWARD WILL BE.... ask and u may receive
Yet another testament of the user friendliness of Linux...
I'm not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or not but it makes no sense which ever way one takes it.
On my Linux machine I can remove files using the KDE GUI file manager, in which case they get moved to "trash" from where they can be recovered.
Or I can delete them using the command line. In which case recovery is unlikely.
Much the same as what happens on Windows and Mac I believe.
Anyway,flying without backups is going to lead to tears eventually on any OS.
I have tried to emphasize that the migration is best experiences by staying with your old Windows system for critical stuff while learning how Linux works on a different computer. This was made easy for my by having a tin EeePC for my first Linux system.
And since LInux really lets the user get into more of the nuts and bolts of the OS, there is a greater hazard to break the OS... in the beginner. Sooner or later one learns how to handle all that additional power in a reasonable way.
Windows may seem friendlier, but in the end I found it wasn't a loyal friend. Just look at the support advice.
A. Ask someone you know or search our web support
B. Hire a Windows expert
C. Try our for fee services if A and B don't work out.
I had to jump through some hoops to get an up to date undeleter that could handle my filesystem but in the end I don't think anything was going to help. Not even an immediate shutdown the moment I deleted would have helped.
The reason: I'm using a SSD with immediate TRIM enabled.
LOL, If you want a fast secure data destruction method then this might be a good way to go.
Windows NTFS is also a journalizing file system, and that is needed to support such recovery software.
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Personally, I prefer using EXT3 as it has a very good track record. In some ways, EXT4 is too new and has yet to prove its worth.
This may be a situation where EXT3 might have recovered, but EXT4 could not. We will never know for sure. You can't easily roll back an EXT4 hard disk to EXT3. I believe it requires a complete re-formatting of the partitions involved.
A reward?
What I can tell you is that I frequently have one COM port situation where calling up one piece of software to use it will not release the COM port for another application.... even if I fully close the first application.
The solution --- I seem to have to power down the computer and restart it to get the COM port to open up. I am sure there are better ways to get the COM port to release, I just haven't looked into it. If someone has a good procedure, we can simply create a Shell Script to do this instead of having to reboot the computer.
But to get started, see if a reboot consistently resolves the COM being unavailable. They we can explore how to fix it.
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The BasicStamp software is a Windows applicaiton, so I guess you are using WINE. Not to sure what is going on. But the SimpleIDE in Linux will handle the COM port nicely if you just assign yourself to it's user group.
Try starting and running the SimpleIDE as the SuperUser (administrator) to verify that this is a group rights issue. It should work fine in SuperUser.
Since I got into Linux, I just print all and everything into a PDF format file ... unless it is really necessary to have a paper copy. I buy hardly any ink or paper any more and have gotten rid of a cubic yard or so of paper print outs that were old and in the way.
And I don't even own a shredder.
Really? How would it do this on a disc that is more than say 50% full? I think that's probably incorrect. If not, it sure sounds like a privacy/security issue to me.
It's true that on Windows a deleted file still remains for a while. The space it used is just marked as available for reuse, but there aren't normally a bunch of extra copies. When I delete a file I want it gone, so I use a utility that actually overwrites the data with random bits.
Problem is, only the filesystem metadata structures were changed, so only that would be in the journal. The file contents were erased by the drive itself as part of enabled TRIM function.
Well, the code for EXT2, 3, and 4 are open source.. unlike NTFS. So I guess you could read it to find out exactly how it journalizes. For me, I just use it and accept that it works. I am not too concerned about last ditch recovery of what I delete.
The concept is pretty much the same in all hard disks. You have a directory records in a directory tree that keep the data about the entry points for all your files. And then the sectors of the files individually point to the next sector until the end of a file marker is found. So the journalizing file systems keep duplicates of changes to the file directory tree --- not copies of all the odl stuff.
But if you are really desperate to recover data from a hard disk, hard disk manufacturers such as Seagate and Western Digital have software that will scan the entire hard disk and attempt to reconstruct as many files as it can from the data that points from one sector to the next. It does take a long long time, is rather tedious, and not 100% reliable. And of course, if you chose to encrypt your data; you only get the encrypted version.
As far as privacy and deleted data on your hard disk...
If you just request to delete, the directory marks the sectors available. But it may be a long time before anything is written to them. The data is still there. You have to use special secure delete software to overwrite the data with NULLs or nonsense... and that really slows the computer down.
I believe that the US State Department and the military do a secure and immediate delete in dire situations in a few minutes with thermite. Once the process is started, it is impossible to stop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite
Or buy Crashplan support, with automatic continuous backup with unlimited time travel.
-Tor
I don't think that NTFS was ever intended to recover the completely delete files -- unless the NSA demanded this for national security reasons. Of course,in the commercial world, there are vendors that will sell software that never works quite as well as it is supposed to and people are desperate enough to buy it.
Police shows on TV seem to perpetuate the idea that this is an easy thing to do.
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All my computers are still dual boot as I don't need the hard disk space consumed by the Winows OS. I still use a Palm Zire72 that requires Windows for the Palm Desktop to support it for installations and repair. And then there is the BasicStamp IDE. But that is about all.
Why you are bashing NTSF? As far as I can follow the files deleted and not able to be restored where on a Linux Computer. EX2/3/4 not NTFS.
Whiteox started migration from Windows to Linux on 5-7-14. About 50+ Days later, after even having Peter J. coming over to help with the install - he finally has this running. Great. How many man hours he spend to install this free and 'cheap' OS? At what hourly rate?
No Windows user here on this forum is telling Linux users to trash there Box and install Windows. Just the other way around. Nagging and nagging about the EVIL Microsoft and the EXPENSIVE Windows Software. Well I just pay $whatever to MS as part of buying a laptop for $340 and be done with it. It just works.
In over 20 years of using Windows I never had any virusinfection or systemcrash I was not able to fix in under 2 hours. Alas I do use mostly Windows Server for Production Stuff so my Workstations//Laptops do not contain much important files. And another thing I do is that - being a Programmer for a living - I PAY for Software I want to use and do NOT install any 'hacked' Versions at all. If I can not pay for VS 2012 I do not use it. This leads to very stable Workstations without any clutter.
If you - on the other hand - install Photoshop from this download and AutoCAD from there and MS Office from your neighbor and ... then things might be different. Does anyone here REALLY believes that ADOBE does NOT know if they sold that copy of Photoshop to you or not? Or the evil MS with Visual Studio and Office? REALLY?
I never hated IBM because I wasn't able to buy a IBM/370 and run MVS. Why should I hate Microsoft? Do I also need to hate Oracle and SUN? Linus Thorwald?
Don't get me wrong here. I do NOT promote Windows in any way. Do whatever you like. I also run Linux on some FriendlyArms and try to keep two Sun Solaris Server alive in Northern Germany. And yes I just finished some job where I came in contact with MVS/390 and JCL again..
But I honestly do not get that Window/Linux bashing. Especially here in this Parallax Forums. There are more derailed Threads here moving ANY discussion to WIndows/Linux as even @Leon is able to distract to a discussion of other microcontrollers.
IMHO any Linux/Windows discussion in any Thread should be looked at by the Moderators as being POLITICAL and RELIGOUS. Thus should be locked instantly and later on ritually burned or something like that.
Sad.
Mike
But I do have my doubts that MS products have ever been as secure as Linux.
In over 20 years of using Windows, I did have complete and catastropic data losses even though I paid for Antivirus software and did complete backups. Backups to CDs and magnetic tape often did not restore. Antivirus software from Norton would force out antivirus software from other vendors. Windows would automatically force out Apple software such a RealPlayer that I installed to listen to BBC Chinese lessons. The whole experience was messy, expensive, and petty. I suppose that if you and your clients have deep enough pockets for top of the line Windows system, the stability might be quite good, but I have never been in such a position.
On the other hand, your comments about why Whiteox is taking so long on a Linux installation is that there is simply a new way to learn. You don't rely on an automated installation for everything, downloads and installations are in different places, and there are a lot of new and useful features that take a bit of time to get understood. Have you ever learned UNIX. If so, I suspect you would understand.
Mr.Snowden has put in doubt the security of whole world wide web and more recent discovery of flaws in the encryption algorithms used by all computers leave me very wary. The encryption algorithm issues seems to have been created by a US government recommendation. OpenSSL has since resolved the problem and moved on. US corporations that are the size of MS do cooperate with the US government and the NSA or risk sanctions. Even RedHat Linux may do so as it is a US corporation.
NTFS has some features to alternatively organize and search for files that I have NEVER felt comfortable with or fully understood... possibly allowing for a backdoor. I may be confusing NTFS.sys with NTFS in general about this, but it is a concern. It is very difficult to get a clear understanding of what goes on in a proprietary OS or proprietary FS.
In the world of hacking, the first dilemma is to identify a target. Since Windows computers are most of the OSes out there, they seem to be the target of choice -- particularly XP machines as there are so many.
Secondly, Linux's open community and peer review seem to close security problems faster. Corporate culture can bumble until management gets a clear mandate from the top down to do something.
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While I will stop poking fun at MS and Windows because it is just boring and no longer fun. I do reserve the right to having an opinion about which operating system is best (which can be interpreted as the best for myself).
Locking out all and any Windows/Linux discussion as religious and political is absurd. People desire to learn about OSes and learning by comparison is fundamental.
Computers are inherently political. In the beginning, the big companies and big government did not want the average person to have personal computers. Later, I purchased a Sony CLIE PDA that has export restrictions to countries other than the USA as the USA government considered it too powerful to not have export restrictions. And some of the best Hewlett-Packard computers are never put on sale in Taiwan (even though they are made here), because of US government export restrictions.
See if you can figure out if NTFS is secure or not from the below article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS
Hey guys. Wow. I though I was rabid.
I'm all for the ritual burning part. Sadly we just missed the mid-summer session for that.
That said, I struggle to see how the highlighted passage could be seen as an anti-M$ dig. Filesystems in general aren't designed for recovering of deleted files. The ability of tools to rescue the deleted files is more about luck than design. There is the trashcan on the desktop but that's not a function of the filesystem at all.
And as Loopy has made quite clear he was taking a shot at the NSA rather than any OS wars. Windoze is far from the only compromised system out there. And like what happened with Sony's irresponsible rookit, the compromise often leaves the target system more vulnerable to unintended hacks.
While Windows OS may come free with the purchase of a computer, in Asia it appears Microsoft expects to recapture the losses of XP by higher than USA prices and regional licensing. A $300 notebook with Windows7 Starter can easily require another $300 or more of a copy of Windows Office in English (there may be promotional bargains in Chinese that I am not aware of). And then there is AV software and other stuff that goes on and on. Windows7 Starter is designed to strongly encourage upgrade by limiting network features like backup, file sharing, and printing.
In the case of Windows Vista, to get both English and Chinese on my free Chinese only Windows Vista, the upgrade was over $900 USD. At least Windows7 Starter does provide a language choice at the installation menus.
My experience with specifically buying fully licensed XP Profession - English and Windows Office - English for the same in Taiwan is that MS in all its wisdom presumed that I should desire any and all web based support in Chinese. This is at a time when their profit margin for sales was roughly 30%.
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BTW. the greatest irony in Taiwan is that my Taiwanese friends will NOT use Linux and prefer to limp along on a pirated version of XP or buy Windows7.
And my security concerns are not just with the US government. I presume that the Taiwan national security apparatus might show an interest in the content of my computers at any time.
But the reality is that I just try not to accumulate anything on a computer that might be used against me. There are a lot of hazards in this world with the accumulation of records that are just best avoided. I also refuse to have a cellular phone with global positioning, rarely use a credit card, and don't an ATM card for banking. All are subject to abuses in Asia and just not worth the bother.
Between LInux and Libre Office, I can get an OS that supports both English and Chinese language, a full network functionality, and ample support in English. It also seems that the Linux Samba software provides a better performing NTFS file server that what MS provides for a fee. Go figure.
What software do you really need? I guess SimpleIDE for Linux or Brad's Spin Tool. It all depends on what you want to do.
I don't use either LInux or Windows as a virtual OS. It may just degrade the OS system's performance (you mentioned Mint is slower than Windows and I am surprised). A virtual OS is good for a demonstration. In the case of LiveCDs you can get a better demonstartion of performance than that of a virtual OS, it just bypasses the normal boot from a hard disk.
I simply use a dual boot set up, but you have to learn how to let Windows security think it has control of the hard disk.
DO NOT add or change partition size outside of Windows in a dual boot setup. Windows tracks the number of partitions and their size (even if the partitions are not for Windows) and if the numbers are different it will no longer boot.
I have had to re install my mint 16 twice now mostly because I shoot my self in the foot learning the in and outs of the OS. It is slower but to be expected. I will re install later this fall when I have more free time.
I did find what I needed in software but was not a fan of BST but it does work. Anyhow I can program my props from either my virtual system or my Raspberry Pi. On the down side I cant see any of the Linux systems on my wireless net here (windows based) Any suggestions from anyone?
Linux is more diffucult then windows but some benefits. But I have to ask my self is it worth all the hassels? Dont want to start a holly war on this but I see benefits to both OS's. Also as far as Linux is concerned it does require much more typing then windows which is difficult for me with one good hand:nerd::nerd:
I presume your wireless net is Wifi. You might have to install driver software for your Wifi interface. And in some cases, wifi cards and devices are not supported in Linux. Having to reinstall at first is not that unusual. It really helps to read a good book on LInux in general.
How LInux Works from No Starch Press is a good one -- http://www.nostarch.com/howlinuxworks2
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27992439
Interesting development. One might see it as a sea change.
I have been wondering if the Japanese will jump in with an electric luxury car now that Tesla has opened up all its patents.
Panasonic sold off a big chunk of real estate that was its cathode ray tube factories to raise more liquidity recently. It must be thinking there are things to buy and lines of growth.
Not long ago the MS boss Steve Bullmer referred to Linux as a "cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches".
Seems the cancer is going to kill MS.
I suspect MS has it's hopes in "The Cloud" realizing that no one needs a specific desktop OS any more. Problem is there are many players in the cloud already.
Interesting that business of Tesla and patents. Seems to me that the Japs or Chinese or even Detroit might flock around anything useful there and undermine Tesla. However, Elon Musk is probably speculating that having everyone jump in and set a standard actually has a great networking effect and actually grows the market for Tesla. Even if the other guys end up being much bigger.
Most people would rather drive around in a Benz and watch the world fall apart that ride a bicycle and save the planet.
Amazon and Netflix and the US Stock Exchange may need the cloud, but I could probably put my whole life on on 32 GByte SDcard and never us it.
Unlike the visionaries of Silicon Valley, I believe there is a point where data just becomes clutter. Sooner or later you just can't keep up with it all.
The library in Alexandria burned and civilization survived... even went forward.
Tesla paid back the half billion dollar loan it go from the Department of Energy nine years early! If you check their financials they are looking very good.
Elon Musk made a pile of money out of creating stuff, like PayPal. Seems he sank most of it into projects like Tesla and SpaceX. Looks to me he is not about making money, he wants to do stuff. Good for him.
I don't know about "most people". In Holland for example you can buy a used car more cheaply than the average price of a new bicycle. But there are huge amounts of bikes on the road.