Changing from Window to Linux permantly
whiteoxe
Posts: 794
Scine my windows boot was taken over over by a scammer yetersday i will be booting linux first up austo mattically. I only need movie editors and gimp and IDE for parallax and picaxe products.
There is less and less reasons now to even use windows for me know.
abitlity to use my kobo and kindle on linux
Thats about it.
(but i do enjoy downlings softaware from the Ubuntu software centre to try out)
There is less and less reasons now to even use windows for me know.
abitlity to use my kobo and kindle on linux
Thats about it.
(but i do enjoy downlings softaware from the Ubuntu software centre to try out)
Comments
I have to say, my Mint 14 system is significantly faster than any Windows system I have available. The initial adjustment was a little rough for awhile until I got my impatience under control and found solutions for all the issues.
edit: I nesrly opted for rasberrian instead of ubuntu... but i already know Ubuntu and thats all that mattered in the end.
Ubuntu is very well known but it is not the one I or many others would use. My preference and recommendation is to install Linux Mint (based on Ubuntu) with Cinnamon desktop.Then install Wine and VirtualBox (non-free, but free) and BST. I have also tried out the Debian edition of Linux Mint but for compatibility the standard edition works with any Ubuntu package. In fact, please do not install Ubuntu, it's Unity desktop (to the exclusion of all others) and lack of codecs etc is a right royal pain.
BTW, I went through this period of trying Linux but using Windows until I dumped Windows, had some growing pains and never looked back again.
Welcome to the club. My PC's have been Windows free since 1997 or so. At the time a friend said "But..but..you need Windows" to which I replied "I'm preparing for the future". I didn't imagine that the future would be such a long time coming...
I of course tried the dual boot thing back in those Windows 95 days. It's a pain to have to shut down your OS just to run some stupid Windows only program for a while. Using vmware or VirtualBox is a much better idea if you really need to do that.
Please dont use ubunto . Its a walled garden and the GUI is so sad . I was gonna do mint ( deb with ciniamon ) but I might as well Run pure Deb and then use XFCE as I dont need THAT much eye candy . and Really XFCE is more GNOME 2 Like then the other stuff .
Peter
Tentatively, I went to dual boot and figured I could always go back to Windows if I need to.
I now have Windows 7 on two notebooks, Vista on one computer, and XP on another -- and all are duel boot. But I never seem to use the Windows side of any of them.
Old records sit in an NTFS partition and I can search and read them from the Linux side of the dual boot.... so I haven't had too much difficulty with the migration.
I use Libra Office (previously called Open Office) and am happy with it. No reason to buy another copy of MS Office for anything.
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When you mentioned the MS Support Team scam and that you actally allowed a user to remotely take over your computer, I was stunned. I have all my income tax records for about a decande back on my main desktop. These include 1099-interest from by banks and other info that I would feel too attractive to a hacker interested in identity theft.
But that is all in Linux, not in the NTFS side.
The simple story is that there are so many naive and sloppy Windows users that they don't really want to bother with hacking Linux. The criminal element is a bit lazy and goes where they can do the least amount of work for the most amount of gain.
Still, I do take measures to protect my Linux machines in general and my main archive machine with focused attention. I don't experience slowdowns that Windows seemed to create with the aging of all their OS releases. And I don't have to purchase dubious virus software and registry cleaners on an annual basis. I just need to keep learning about good Linux security.
Since the Linux community is open to reading the code for errors and flaws, I trust the updates.. especially the security updates more that I ever did with Microsoft. Paid employees will often keep their mouths shut and ignore a flaw just to keep their jobs. So MS seems to cycle between good and bad code.. including good and bad security.
I went with Ubuntu early on and loved it up to 12.04. Then they got into something that started to feel too special, maybe proprietary. I tried Mint --- but Mint is based on Ubuntu. So I am wary. Now I use Debian.. plain and simple and am very satisfied. The Linux world really has its foundation splite between the Red Hat/Fedora way of doing things and the Debian way of doing things.
Fedora annoys me, but supposedly Linux Torvalds prefers to personally use Red Hat or Fedora (not sure which, but you and I have to pay for Red Hat).
BTW, I still keep the dual boots on all the machines. Why? Well the Windows OSes are tied by registration to the hardware. Since the machines came with Windows, it would be silly not to keep it. If someone ever does attach my Linux, I can reboot in Windows and still use the same machine to get new info and downloads to correct the problem.
WINE can be hacked by those nasty criminals that seek out Windows users.. so I won't load it.
AVR Studio has a Linux version, and Parallax SimpleIDE is Parallax's move to provide an in-house Linux friendly solution. But I also use Brad's Spin Tool as it has more features.
I've used several flavors of Linux, but I like Fedora over the others. Of course YMMV.
Amanda
(BTW... my Fedora box dual boots Win 7 Ultimate. Of all the Winderz flavors, I rather like that one. Tho' it only boots 7 about .5% of the time. :-> )
Now that I have been working with Raspbian Wheezy on the Raspberry Pi I have been using the Debian drive on my main system more often.
The 'dd' comand and 'rsynch' command in Linux allow me to do pretty much the same things as Norton Ghost, but for free. And I do these over the local network for my other computers (4 in all are mirrored and rsynched on the 2Tbyte disk).
Cron in Linux can either send you messages to remind you to backup or can start automated backups. In my case, I use messaging as automated backups interfer with my unpredictable use hours.
Now that I have a good backup system in place, it seems nothing is failing.
I may move all my income tax directories to an SDcard and not keep any financial info on any active computers. I do have printed backups in case of an IRS audit. Private is best completely off the grid.
Not true at all ..You DONT have to pay for Red hat enterprise Liunx ( RHEL ) . Its Free on there site. I ran it for Years Till I went to Debian( paied for a * subscription * .RHEL is free as a rain in oregon . however you cant get tech support OR Redhat Updates ! .
Franky If you want a consumer OS then Fedora IS redhat. they both share code back and forth .
Fed is darn near the incubator for RHEL .
CentOS is also based directly ON RHEL but the artwork is changed as the Code is GNU GPL but the * cough artist artwork ) is property of Redhat . the community does the support for " cent"..
I used fedora for Years from fedora "core "4 to 10 but the new GUI in 12 ish or was it 14 . was a Joke , I am a Die hard GNOME 2.5 fan . this new fnagled unity and other stuff is like a Ipad .... So I jumped ship to RHEL then Debian .
Ya know that mint has 4 main versions.
Ubunto > cinnamon
ubunto MATE
Debian Cinnamon
Debian MATE
Until Windows committed suicide, as it does, and you had to reinstall it.
At that point the Windows reinstall assumes it owns the whole machine and craps all over the boot loader.
Oops, you can't boot your Linux partition any more!
First line of defence here is to put Linux and Windows on different disks. Physically disconnect the Linux + boot loader disk when reinstalling Windows so that MS cannot mess with it.
Second line of defence is to install Windows to a Virtual Machine running under Linux.
The inevitable conclusion is why bother with that old legacy stuff anyway?
If you are into fancy looking desktops try elementary os. Ubuntu's gui is like eye cancer, but probably the best supported distro out there.
Then I bought the latest i7 Windows 7 machine, installed a bunch of Linux based VMs for development on VirtualBox. I haven't looked back.
Debian and Suse are my favorite Linux based OS environments. I don't despise Microsoft, but I don't like them either. I don't despise Apple, I just don't like them. Any OS is fine on VirtualBox as long as the underlying OS is stable.
Now what software do I really need?
I am not too sure that anything is more complicated in Linux.
Once you learn what you are looking at, you will realize that these features are availalble in Windows or Apple.. but at least in Windows they are more hidden from the user.
In fact, Windows with its registry and proprietary boot loading will always come out more complicated than Linux... and more mysterious in ways that are negative.
Linux does provide more information to the average user, so it 'appears to be' more complicated. But it is simply more empowering and more informative. I suspect that any programmer worth their chops has spent some of their career using Linux to learn concepts that others dislike teaching or presenting to the public.
Ubuntu was pretty go up until 12.04, then things got weird. They seemed to think to try to get started with a split between an 'open-source' version and a 'for pay' cloud computing support. I suspect that they have ambitions to follow where Red Hat/Fedora and SUSE/Open SUSE have gone.
I prefer a strictly open-source distribution if it can do everything I need to do. Why should I pay a premium for more headaches?
@Heater
If you really understood what was going on, you wouldn't have to have a separate hard disk.
If your Windows fails, you certainly have to reload Windows. But the Linux partitions are not affected in anyway IF you clearly understand what is going on with MS. When Windows fails and is corrupted, you have not lost anything in Linux -- the partitions are there to protect from such an event. In fact, you can use Puppy Linux from a CD and access all your Linux data on such a hard disk. You can even use 'dd' and make binary images for backup and later reinstall... if you are wise (Do any reinstall with partition management without backups is a sudden death risk).
But the procedure is to selectively reinstall Windows to the same partitions that it used; then go into Grub2 and revive the boot to Linux.
ONLY IF the Windows installation tries to hog the whole hard disk and force repartitioning are you at risk of loosing your Linux data. And that is ONLY IF you haven't taken the precautions of using a Live CD such as Puppy Linux to off load your critical data.
Does Windows really 'commit suicide'? I am sure it feels like it does at times, but it is more likely that it has been overtaken by hostile outside forces and brought it its knees.
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Admittedly, the choice between separate hard disks for Linux and Windows or the same partitioned hard disk is personal.
Also, the choice of using Virtual Machines to have Linux working within Windows (to me, this is rather stupid) or Windows working within (Linux) are personal. I just don't see why anyone bothers with Virtual Machines when a dual boot gives you the real thing.
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Though I have the Windows XP, Vista, and 7 on dual boots, these days I rarely use any of them for anything. It takes a great deal of effort and some $$$ to adequately defend Windows from hostile dark forces in the world at larger... and I seemed to never have been able to keep ahead of them.
So I just have the dual boots for 'just in case'. And I have multiple Windows installs if one goes down.
But I am sick of Windows. Microsoft never adequately protected its customers or itself from these situations. It remains the biggest target for fraud and identity theft. I just choose to go elsewhere, while keeping my options open.
I do keep up with the dual boot installation strategies. And Windows7 and Windows8 do make the whole process a bit more convoluted.
Microsoft shift from the NTLDR in NT series OSes to 'calling Windows Boot Loader" in Windows7 and 8. When you do install Linux wrong, these boot loaders take over and you get a file corrupted message that actually points to the wrong file in Windows, so trusting the OS will get you nowhere with a DIY fix.
What is going on? MS simply makes a copy of the hard disk partition configuration and allocation of installed MS OSes that is compared every time it is called upon to boot a MS OS. If the list is not the same, if the number of total partitions or the sizes, or the positions of the partitions have changed.. MS will NOT boot. The data in this file is buried deeply in obscurity, so you have to manage all partition changes from within Windows, and then later only use Linux Gparted to configure the Linux partition recognition (no size or location changes allowed).
It seems that MS does have a policy to leave other partitions untouched, and accepts them as unknown. And that is why Grub2 can continue to make a successful dual boot. But along the way, if you get it wrong, MS will make it seem AS IF you have lost all your data. This is just part of their game of loyal customers via ignorance and fear.
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Both my netbooks - A Toshiba NT250 and an Asus EEEpc seashell series what Windows that came installed with a BIOS setup that has a hidden partition that reverts to an original image of the licensed Windows installation. Using that installation option will likely wipe out you Linux installation. It may even reapportion the partitioning scheme. I have never tried either. It just sits there in case I desire to resell these computers with a clean Windows OS install.
Since no CD is provide with such devices and you have to make a USB reinstall to avoid this as your only choice; it seems that MS again is trying to make the desperate and uninformed user opt to dump Linux. Neither of these machines has space for a second hard disk... so it is a dual boot or all Windows. And Microsoft manages to force the user to have only less than 50% of the 300Gbytes available for Linux users by having files that can never be moved in their scheme. They purposely are hostile toward any non-MS OS being installed on the same hard disk.
Easy enough to fix, been there many times. But it's annoying and time wasting and eventually you fix the problem by not giving Windows the time of day unless it's safely caged in a virtual machine.
Even that is a pain so eventually you don't want to bother with that either.
Separate hard disks does not help with the problem of having to repair the bootloader but it does mean there is no possible way MS can trash your non-windows partitions, you can disconnect it prior to the Windows install. No idea. I, like everyone else on the planet have been to those points where after trying to install some software or driver everything is screwed and there is no way out apart from a fresh reinstall. Sometimes the hostile forces are perfectly innocuous programs you'd like to use. The main motivations here are:
1) I don't want kill off my primary OS while I have to use some Windows only program.
2) All that rebooting is a time consuming annoyance. Not so bad now with modern fast PC's and SSD's but still an issue.
3) With a virtual machine you can snapshot a Windows installation plus all the drivers and programs you have carefully installed. When things go bad it's very quick and easy to revert to the last known good configuration.
4) No problems with hardware detection and reactivations. The virtual hardware never changes. Heck spin up as many copies of your installation on as many machines as you have!
I suppose a VM under a separate partition would be an adequate way to install Window within Linux. But my darned licensed copies that come with the machine seem to not be transferable to such an arrangement.
Anything running in a virtual environment will run slower but will never be better than the host O/S, and if that host O/S happens to be windows then don't expect miracles, but at least you get the taste for Linux.
I've never bothered doing it this way though, I always just leave windows as is and create an extended partition and then create multiple partitions within that for at least a couple of different Linux flavours, plus one for the /home directory so that it's not mixed in with the actual Linux O/S (much easier to change/upgrade), and one for the swap partition. Various flavors I've tried are LMDE, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, Puppy, etc, etc (at least 20). Desktop preference was Gnome, now it's Cinnamon but XFCE is excellent if somewhat minimalistic so I load it as an alternative. KDE is good but walking the menus is awkward.
As for disk format I always use EXT4. As mentioned earlier I use Linux Mint 64 Ubuntu base with Cinnamon desktop as I find this configuration will run most software including BST. There are the ia32-libs required for any 32-bit packages and of course use Virtual Box to run Windows but I really only use this for software that can only run under Windows, not Wine, and most of the time it's my Protel EDA client. One day I will migrate all my designs and libraries to a Linux based package but until then this is the main use for my Virtual Windows.
As for software/applets shall I just quickly mention medit, BST, minicom, dropbox, wine, virtualbox (non-free), screenshot, libreoffice, firefox and chrome, zenmap, wireshark, filezilla, transmission, avidemux, winff, audacity, and the list goes on and on.
Thanks for the reply! I will play until I get comfortable with Linux then probably do the dual boot thing, might even try your Forth. Used a version of that way back on the TRS 80. Got some issues on making the font larger for my old eyes <G?
It seams my distro came with Libre Office which I also use on windows. What is good foe email?
Always used to tell people not to use webmail, avoid outlook express and just use thunderbird, but no more. My preference is to just use gmail through a browser on the pc or an app on the phone. I get it to collect from different accounts and it filters out spam, sorts into folders etc. As for libreoffice I like using draw to create precise labels which I print out onto heavy duty laser label which is actually a polyester base, it delivers a very professional looking finish. I use writer to do up datasheets but in landscape mode so you can view them easily on the screen too.
Now, what did you mean by making the font larger? Isn't that just a setting?
Yes I figure the screen resolution and character size is a text file like on the Raspberry Pi but I havent stumbled over it yet! Any tips?
I might just do all that , Id rather boot into a linux and use a virtal machine for win 7. At the moment i am having to choose what to boot at staart up, either linux or win 7 and then i find i want the other os so have to restart.
I have a spare drive sitting in the pc so ill install mint and Virtual box there.
A. You may initally break your Linux installation and have to reinstall several times before you fully understand what you are doing. So at first, it is best to NOT move all your important data to Linux. Have a complete image backup of your Windows to revert too in case you have a complete disaster. It takes time to build knowledge and confidence about partitioning, reformating, and linking partitions in a dual boot situation.
B. You may become very curious about all the different distributions available and want to switch from one to another to investigate which you prefer. Again, it is best to retain your Windows while do this.
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Regarding the dual boot installation,
The first time I did this, I had to do it repeatedly to get it right. The primary issue is to preserve all the Windows and all the Linux partitions at all costs. Windows recover proceedures will ONLY recover Windows and other MS partitions... never any other OSes.
You may initially have Grub only recognize Linux, and have to start over to get Windows recognized.
You may ask Windows to recover, and it will configure a boot that ignores the Linux partitions, but they remain in place. These situations seem like you have lost the data in one or the other OS, but the reality is that the boot loader is just not configured correctly to recognize everything (Windows boot loader will never recognize a dual boot of a non-MS product).
After you have all the right partitions in place and properly linked to Linux root and whatever else you desire (I use a / and /home two-partiton setup),
You can automatically have GRUB2 configure your boot loader successfully; BUT you CANNOT have Gparted automatically configure your partitions successfully when doing a dual boot.
DO NOT trust the Linux LiveCD menus to do the correct automatic configuration of partitions --- do all this manually. The Grub configuration is the last thing that the LiveCD installation does, it comes later. But if you got the assignment of Linux partitions wrong in Gparted, you are not going to get a successful Grub2 configuration.