@skynugget: you might have a highly-imbalanced propeller, maybe from a prior crash. If this is the case you can probably see a chip off of the leading edge of a propeller.
Lexan (polycarbonate) is pretty stiff material in the same thickness as Delrin (acetal copolymer).
thanks for the info ken!
i think i have a bent motor shaft or one of those lil x-mounts are out of whack on one particular boom, because i can replicate the problem with the props off. i haven't had time to go over it with a fine tooth comb yet, but ill report my findings
That is very true. The closest that I ever came to having the very first of anything was the 68th Amiga Computer...LOL Just wait until you see it with my FPV gear at the Expo.
I am building a quad using the QuickStart board, coupled to a malfunctioning ProtoBoard on which I mounted a 9DOF sensor stick from Sparkfun. I also mounted a BMP085 pressure sensor. Using Jason Dories code from his QuadX project, I was able to run Jason's code by changing the Config Read line in the ITG3200-pasm file to #%11010000 vice #%11010010,,, Then, in Jason's Ground Station Visual C# Main.cs page I changed the mainform load line to read
" private void MainForm_Load( object sender, EventArgs e )
{
// Open the serial port COM7 at 115200 baud, no parity, 8 bits, one stop bit
comm = new SerialPort("COM7", 115200, Parity.None, 8, StopBits.One);
comm.Open();
Active = true;
tickTimer.Enabled = true;
statsTimer.Enabled = true;"
}" . which finds my QuickStart on Com7.
This is way cool :0.......... Thank You so much Jason, I am having so much fun building my quad on a low budget, using Parallax products. I am learning so much here in the forums.... Life is Good
Thank You Ken Gracey for starting this project. I can't afford the HoverFly right now so that is why I went with Jason's version which is coming along nicely.
Got mine flying today - finally. Job and other stuff got in the way. Pretty squirrely until I turn on the autolevel (I need flying practice!!!) but flick that switch and it steadies right out. It seems to want to always roll left on takeoff (without A/L) but it's controllable. I'm going to go back to the manual and read up on the gains, etc. Haven't tried the altitude hold yet, let alone any of the GPS functions - I'll leave that until I get a little camera mounted on it.
I'm gonna LOVE this thing!!!
Dial down the gain setting a bit and the squirliness should go away. Set the gain too low and it'll behave in a mushy, less-responsive manner.
Take this one step at a time, too, without rush, just the way you are doing it right now. Quadcopters are so entirely different than other flying contraptions and ultimately more addictive - they've kept my attention consistently for the past six months and I can foresee a full year's worth of improvements and additions ahead of me. Each additional field represents months of experimentation: GPS navigation; first-person view; telemetry downlink; luanching off of a MadeUSA platform and deploying an S2 with Sharpie to send the earthlings a message; etc.
Hmmm, glad I read this first. I probably would have dialed the gain UP. But then I haven't gone through that part of the manual again lately so I hopefully would have caught it.
Yes, Isn't this a wonderful path of learning we are embarking on? I am glad i've gained (a little bit) of patience in my old age, 'cause I am really eager to get to the next step. But I'll take it slow.
Ok, had my first (and no doubt not my last) crash. Broke two props and I have two motors that are not turning very well. I ordered a crash kit, but I see that the red motors are no longer available on the web site, so I'm going to have to try to find them elsewhere or get four new motors - that might be the best way to go since the motors with the broken props seem fine, but the other two are the ones that don't turn.
I dialed back the main gain, but I think I screwed something up with the altitude hold gain because at first I didn't have any elevator or aileron. I had set up the gain on channel six to be the same as the main gain (channel 5). When I went back to 100% on channel six, I got aileron and elevator back. I took off and tried autolevle and it seemed to be fine, then decided to try altitude hold. That's when I went crazy and hit a tree and landed on it's back. Getting out of the throttle didn't stop the props from trying to turn. I think that may have burned out the two motors. Anyway I think the Hoverfly manual really sucks becaus it is not very clear to a novice like me about how to set those gains. It really freaked me out when I didn't have any elevator or aileron, but it was obviously something to do with the gain.
When I get everything put back together, I'm going to get with Ken or somebody who has a DX8 and get everything set right. Sure was neat the little bit of flying I got to do, though. I'm pumped!
You better check your Ultrasonic sensor before you try the Altitude hold again.
Don has the Hoverfly PRO board with a barometric pressure sensor. John, your SPORT board accepts the ultrasonic sensor. I think it's the Maxbotix version - not certain but if somebody knows maybe they could tell me too.
Well, I had my first semi-successful flight. It was quite squirrelly. I bounced and crashed a bit. Eventually I skidded off some grass and into a driveway, flipping over and breaking one landing gear and a prop. Easily replaced. I think I've since figured out I had the gain set to 100%. Which brings me to some questions about the HoverFly Sport board that shipped with my kit:
First, what features does the Sport have? I've found the documentation, support, and product descriptions on the HoverFly website to be lacking and contradictory. I'm starting to think the user manual for the Sport board is actually the pro manual with a quick search and replace. It talks about accelerometers, autoleveling, and other features that do not exist on the Sport board as far as I can tell. The setup utility diags find and test the gyros, but everything else is blanked out. Only altitude hold shows on the general tab.
Setting the gain. I have a spectrum DX6i. I think I set the gain by adjusting the travel on the gear switch (channel 5), correct? I can set two gains. One with gear=0 (switch off), and one with gear=1 (switch on), which also seems to turn on altitude hold. Why are there two gain settings? Is it just so that you can have different gains when alt hold is on? I don't have a ultrasonic sensor yet, so what is the effect of altitude hold right now?
The craft did have a wee bit of a wobble, which makes me think something is out of balance. I balanced the props as best I could by placing them on an extra motor shaft in a vice and turning them horizontal and vertical to see if they would fall one way or the other. They seem pretty balanced. Any tips here?
I think I set the gain by adjusting the travel on the gear switch (channel 5), correct? I can set two gains. One with gear=0 (switch off), and one with gear=1 (switch on), which also seems to turn on altitude hold. Why are there two gain settings? Is it just so that you can have different gains when alt hold is on? I....The craft did have a wee bit of a wobble, which makes me think something is out of balance.
Try Flashing the it with the AP firmware. That and 50% gain made all the difference for me. I broke several fans and 2 landing gear learning that lesson. Also one of the best things to try, is to do a flight in a very large tall room with no wind while you are looking for the best gain level. The last lesson I learned is that, since I have never flown an RC plane, a flight simulator makes all of the difference.
Hello Ken,
I received my package of landing gear today. Thank You, I cannot try out my new legs today because I sent my quad home.
Again Thank You very much,
Jim
Not sure if this is the proper place to ask this but it does have to do with my ELEV-8.
I now have two motors that turn very hard. I believe they are the original Turnigy 2217(?)s that came with the kit. I notice those motors are no longer available and I'm not eager to order them from Hobby King because it will be a month before I get them. I see that now we have the brushless 1000kv outrunner motors. Of course, I would have to get 4 of them, but that might not be a bad idea since the two motors that seem to turn ok are the ones where the props broke, so they took pretty good hits, too.
Questions: Can the 2217's be rebuilt? Is it worth it?
I have my new Prop BOE, which has a bunch of servo ports on it. Could I hook a ESC to a servo port and test motors with it? I don't see why not, but I am a little bit in the dark about what pulses to send to the ESC to control the motor without overspeeding it or burning it out or something. I guess I would want to simulate a throttle input. I'm going to look on the prop object page and see if there is something like that out there, but I'm just wondering if someone has already done this.
dmanus make sure you remove the voltage jumper for the pair of servo ports you are using on the Propboe to plug in your ESC's too, otherwise you will be connecting the BEC supply from the ESC to the supplies from the Propboe.
Edit: I tried it with the Propboe first servo port P14, removed the voltage input jumper for that servo port using this program which slightly spins the motor for 2 seconds then shuts it off.
Con
_CLKMODE = XTAL1 + PLL16X
_XINFREQ = 5_000_000
SERVO_PIN = 14 'Propboe first servo port
Var
Obj
sr : "Servo32V7"
Pub main
sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1100) 'set output to throttle down
sr.start 'start servo driver
waitcnt(clkfreq/2+cnt)
sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1200) 'set throttle to barely up from the down position
waitcnt(clkfreq*2+cnt) 'wait 2 seconds
sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1100) 'set throttle down
'from here you place "sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1100 to 1900)", Throttle down to Throttle up in your program to control the ESC-
'-on the first servo plug (P14) on the Propboe - make sure to remove voltage input jumper for that set of servo pins
Thanks, Dave. I was on the right track, I had already downloaded Servo32V7. I've got to get some wiring built so I can hook up the ESC and motor. This will be a handy little tool. Meanwhile, I'm going to order 4 more motors cause I'm pretty sure at least 3 of mine are toast. Then I'm going to get ALL of the gain settings for the DX8 before I try to fly again...
Just to let you know the servo drivers in the Hoverfly Sport and Jason Dories program output at a faster rate than Servo32V7 but it is fine to use for operating the ESC's.
I haven't been very active posting lately, but not because I haven't been flying...having a lot of fun practicing in my back yard. There are plenty of obstacles (trees, shrubs, house fence, etc.) and i've hit these several times. The elev8 pretty much takes the hits and keeps on flying. That includes hitting a tree just tonight. I stocked up on props when I bought it in expectation that I'd go through a lot of them...but so far, I've still got the original props. Aside from having to replace two landing gears, it has "just worked".
I mentioned in previous posts that I am a novice when it comes to RC helis or quads. I've been flying with sport firmware and gains at about 50% and have been able to start from scratch, gradually building up skill. I have a kids hoopla-hoop on the ground and I use that for a landing target. I can stick the landing on a regular basis now. The thing really is fairly easy to fly and no problem to learn to fly if you take it slow.
In short this thing rocks! Anybody out there that's thinking about it but on the fence...take the plunge, it is a lot of fun.
Hi, I am novice when it comes to assembling or flying the Elev 8. I see that you mention that you are using the sport firmware and setting the gain at 50%. You are able to fly your Elev-8. I am using the same setting. However, I am not able to fly the Elev-8. As soon as I raised the Throttle, the Elev8 Flips over. Can you provide some insight as what other setting I need to adjust. Thank you.
Jet-W: different radios treat their travel ranges differently. Some of them call one half of the range "0 to 50" and the other half "50 to 100", while others treat them as "-100 to 0" and "0 to +100". If you're new to R/C this can be really confusing. In short, if he has the latter type radio, and you have the former, his gain of "50" would be a gain of 75 on your radio. If you plugged in the number "50" on yours, it would be equivalent to "0" on his, which would mean no gyro feedback at all, and could explain why it just flips over on you.
Tell us what kind of radio you're using and someone familiar with it can hopefully help. There really is only the one setting, but I would also recommend reducing your control throws to about 60% of normal as a starting point. I found their suggestion of 100% *way* too high for a beginner.
Jet-W: different radios treat their travel ranges differently. Some of them call one half of the range "0 to 50" and the other half "50 to 100", while others treat them as "-100 to 0" and "0 to +100". If you're new to R/C this can be really confusing. In short, if he has the latter type radio, and you have the former, his gain of "50" would be a gain of 75 on your radio. If you plugged in the number "50" on yours, it would be equivalent to "0" on his, which would mean no gyro feedback at all, and could explain why it just flips over on you.
Tell us what kind of radio you're using and someone familiar with it can hopefully help. There really is only the one setting, but I would also recommend reducing your control throws to about 60% of normal as a starting point. I found their suggestion of 100% *way* too high for a beginner.
Wow you are right, I am totally confused. I use a Specktrum DX7s with a AR8000 receiver. The only setting that I adjusted is the "Travel ,Throttle, Gear from the default 100% down to 50%. Are there any sites where I can get more info on what you mentioned "Travel range setting"? Thanks.
dmagnus - Your motors probably don't turn because some magnets came loose. It's really not a big deal. Take the motors apart and you'll see what the problem is right away. You can simply CA the magnets back into place and you're up and running again. There really isn't much to go wrong with a brushless motor unless you burn out a winding. That's really rare unless you leave the throttle on after a crash or keep trying to run it with the magnets falling out. (Rule #1 is cut the throttle if you're crashing!) Other than magnets, bending the motor shaft is the other common problem and that's easy to fix to. I wouldn't rush out and buy new motors until I knew what was wrong with the old ones. Hey... Fixing stuff is part of this hobby! :-)
Servo tester - I sure wouldn't try to get a propeller running as a servo tester. It's not that you can't do it, but it's a lot like making your own screwdriver out of an old bolt. There are better ways to solve the problem. You can buy those things from HK, HobbyPartz, or a lot of other places really cheap (like $10). This is something you will use over and over and over in this hobby so I'd just pop the ten bucks and move on. :-) Here is one I like pretty well: http://www.batteryheatedclothing.com/g-t-power-servo-tester-ccpm-servo-consistency-master/ I think this is the same one (clone) from HK for $5.99, but if it's the only thing you order, the freight might kill you. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8296
dmagnus - Your motors probably don't turn because some magnets came loose. It's really not a big deal. Take the motors apart and you'll see what the problem is right away. You can simply CA the magnets back into place and you're up and running again. There really isn't much to go wrong with a brushless motor unless you burn out a winding. That's really rare unless you leave the throttle on after a crash or keep trying to run it with the magnets falling out. (Rule #1 is cut the throttle if you're crashing!) Other than magnets, bending the motor shaft is the other common problem and that's easy to fix to. I wouldn't rush out and buy new motors until I knew what was wrong with the old ones. Hey... Fixing stuff is part of this hobby! :-)
...Tiger
On that note... I burned up a brushless motor today, and I don't know how. I had it connected to the ESC and a Lipo battery, and the motor was free to spin with no load. I connect it (either to the Propeller with PWM, or RC reciever, I don't remember) and a big puff of white smoke comes out. I immediately disconnect it, and move it to an open area. I try again with a previously good setup (battery, radio, esc, motor) and it just twitches and sends out puffs of smoke. I took the motor apart and there was no apparent damage. I took the ESC apart and no apparent damage there either. I have no idea what happened.
I am also a beginner and when my quad flips instead of taking off it is often that :
* the motors at not runing in the right direction: 2 motors CW and 2 motors CCW (read carefully the Hoverfly doc)
* the propellers are not in the right place : 2 propellers normal (running CCW) and 2 propellers pusher (running CW)
* the Hoverfly card is not in the right orientation (look at the configuration ( X or + ) in the Hoverfly doc.
You have also to program (better with a Turnigy card : costs about 7 $) and calibrate the ESC (one by one connecting it to the throttle channel of the receiver)
Comments
Lexan (polycarbonate) is pretty stiff material in the same thickness as Delrin (acetal copolymer).
Ken Gracey
i think i have a bent motor shaft or one of those lil x-mounts are out of whack on one particular boom, because i can replicate the problem with the props off. i haven't had time to go over it with a fine tooth comb yet, but ill report my findings
Ken Gracey
But you can forever say that you got the very first kit right from my hand! I'll send you some if you would like. Let me know!
-Nick
Could you send me some please?
I am building a quad using the QuickStart board, coupled to a malfunctioning ProtoBoard on which I mounted a 9DOF sensor stick from Sparkfun. I also mounted a BMP085 pressure sensor. Using Jason Dories code from his QuadX project, I was able to run Jason's code by changing the Config Read line in the ITG3200-pasm file to #%11010000 vice #%11010010,,, Then, in Jason's Ground Station Visual C# Main.cs page I changed the mainform load line to read
" private void MainForm_Load( object sender, EventArgs e )
{
// Open the serial port COM7 at 115200 baud, no parity, 8 bits, one stop bit
comm = new SerialPort("COM7", 115200, Parity.None, 8, StopBits.One);
comm.Open();
Active = true;
tickTimer.Enabled = true;
statsTimer.Enabled = true;"
}" . which finds my QuickStart on Com7.
This is way cool :0.......... Thank You so much Jason, I am having so much fun building my quad on a low budget, using Parallax products. I am learning so much here in the forums.... Life is Good
Thank You Ken Gracey for starting this project. I can't afford the HoverFly right now so that is why I went with Jason's version which is coming along nicely.
...Tiger
I'm gonna LOVE this thing!!!
Dial down the gain setting a bit and the squirliness should go away. Set the gain too low and it'll behave in a mushy, less-responsive manner.
Take this one step at a time, too, without rush, just the way you are doing it right now. Quadcopters are so entirely different than other flying contraptions and ultimately more addictive - they've kept my attention consistently for the past six months and I can foresee a full year's worth of improvements and additions ahead of me. Each additional field represents months of experimentation: GPS navigation; first-person view; telemetry downlink; luanching off of a MadeUSA platform and deploying an S2 with Sharpie to send the earthlings a message; etc.
Congrats on being airborne!
Ken Gracey
Yes, Isn't this a wonderful path of learning we are embarking on? I am glad i've gained (a little bit) of patience in my old age, 'cause I am really eager to get to the next step. But I'll take it slow.
I dialed back the main gain, but I think I screwed something up with the altitude hold gain because at first I didn't have any elevator or aileron. I had set up the gain on channel six to be the same as the main gain (channel 5). When I went back to 100% on channel six, I got aileron and elevator back. I took off and tried autolevle and it seemed to be fine, then decided to try altitude hold. That's when I went crazy and hit a tree and landed on it's back. Getting out of the throttle didn't stop the props from trying to turn. I think that may have burned out the two motors. Anyway I think the Hoverfly manual really sucks becaus it is not very clear to a novice like me about how to set those gains. It really freaked me out when I didn't have any elevator or aileron, but it was obviously something to do with the gain.
When I get everything put back together, I'm going to get with Ken or somebody who has a DX8 and get everything set right. Sure was neat the little bit of flying I got to do, though. I'm pumped!
You better check your Ultrasonic sensor before you try the Altitude hold again.
Don has the Hoverfly PRO board with a barometric pressure sensor. John, your SPORT board accepts the ultrasonic sensor. I think it's the Maxbotix version - not certain but if somebody knows maybe they could tell me too.
Ken Gracey
Well, I had my first semi-successful flight. It was quite squirrelly. I bounced and crashed a bit. Eventually I skidded off some grass and into a driveway, flipping over and breaking one landing gear and a prop. Easily replaced. I think I've since figured out I had the gain set to 100%. Which brings me to some questions about the HoverFly Sport board that shipped with my kit:
First, what features does the Sport have? I've found the documentation, support, and product descriptions on the HoverFly website to be lacking and contradictory. I'm starting to think the user manual for the Sport board is actually the pro manual with a quick search and replace. It talks about accelerometers, autoleveling, and other features that do not exist on the Sport board as far as I can tell. The setup utility diags find and test the gyros, but everything else is blanked out. Only altitude hold shows on the general tab.
Setting the gain. I have a spectrum DX6i. I think I set the gain by adjusting the travel on the gear switch (channel 5), correct? I can set two gains. One with gear=0 (switch off), and one with gear=1 (switch on), which also seems to turn on altitude hold. Why are there two gain settings? Is it just so that you can have different gains when alt hold is on? I don't have a ultrasonic sensor yet, so what is the effect of altitude hold right now?
The craft did have a wee bit of a wobble, which makes me think something is out of balance. I balanced the props as best I could by placing them on an extra motor shaft in a vice and turning them horizontal and vertical to see if they would fall one way or the other. They seem pretty balanced. Any tips here?
Here's a video of the wobble and crash:
[video=youtube_share;LD0AT3X4N4g]
Try Flashing the it with the AP firmware. That and 50% gain made all the difference for me. I broke several fans and 2 landing gear learning that lesson. Also one of the best things to try, is to do a flight in a very large tall room with no wind while you are looking for the best gain level. The last lesson I learned is that, since I have never flown an RC plane, a flight simulator makes all of the difference.
these esc have external crystal/resonator which I read will do away with the throttle calibration and they have the flashable Atmel chip.
Thank you,
Biz
I received my package of landing gear today. Thank You, I cannot try out my new legs today because I sent my quad home.
Again Thank You very much,
Jim
I now have two motors that turn very hard. I believe they are the original Turnigy 2217(?)s that came with the kit. I notice those motors are no longer available and I'm not eager to order them from Hobby King because it will be a month before I get them. I see that now we have the brushless 1000kv outrunner motors. Of course, I would have to get 4 of them, but that might not be a bad idea since the two motors that seem to turn ok are the ones where the props broke, so they took pretty good hits, too.
Questions: Can the 2217's be rebuilt? Is it worth it?
I have my new Prop BOE, which has a bunch of servo ports on it. Could I hook a ESC to a servo port and test motors with it? I don't see why not, but I am a little bit in the dark about what pulses to send to the ESC to control the motor without overspeeding it or burning it out or something. I guess I would want to simulate a throttle input. I'm going to look on the prop object page and see if there is something like that out there, but I'm just wondering if someone has already done this.
Edit: I tried it with the Propboe first servo port P14, removed the voltage input jumper for that servo port using this program which slightly spins the motor for 2 seconds then shuts it off.
Con _CLKMODE = XTAL1 + PLL16X _XINFREQ = 5_000_000 SERVO_PIN = 14 'Propboe first servo port Var Obj sr : "Servo32V7" Pub main sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1100) 'set output to throttle down sr.start 'start servo driver waitcnt(clkfreq/2+cnt) sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1200) 'set throttle to barely up from the down position waitcnt(clkfreq*2+cnt) 'wait 2 seconds sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1100) 'set throttle down 'from here you place "sr.set(SERVO_PIN, 1100 to 1900)", Throttle down to Throttle up in your program to control the ESC- '-on the first servo plug (P14) on the Propboe - make sure to remove voltage input jumper for that set of servo pinsI haven't been very active posting lately, but not because I haven't been flying...having a lot of fun practicing in my back yard. There are plenty of obstacles (trees, shrubs, house fence, etc.) and i've hit these several times. The elev8 pretty much takes the hits and keeps on flying. That includes hitting a tree just tonight. I stocked up on props when I bought it in expectation that I'd go through a lot of them...but so far, I've still got the original props. Aside from having to replace two landing gears, it has "just worked".
I mentioned in previous posts that I am a novice when it comes to RC helis or quads. I've been flying with sport firmware and gains at about 50% and have been able to start from scratch, gradually building up skill. I have a kids hoopla-hoop on the ground and I use that for a landing target. I can stick the landing on a regular basis now. The thing really is fairly easy to fly and no problem to learn to fly if you take it slow.
In short this thing rocks! Anybody out there that's thinking about it but on the fence...take the plunge, it is a lot of fun.
Tell us what kind of radio you're using and someone familiar with it can hopefully help. There really is only the one setting, but I would also recommend reducing your control throws to about 60% of normal as a starting point. I found their suggestion of 100% *way* too high for a beginner.
Wow you are right, I am totally confused. I use a Specktrum DX7s with a AR8000 receiver. The only setting that I adjusted is the "Travel ,Throttle, Gear from the default 100% down to 50%. Are there any sites where I can get more info on what you mentioned "Travel range setting"? Thanks.
Servo tester - I sure wouldn't try to get a propeller running as a servo tester. It's not that you can't do it, but it's a lot like making your own screwdriver out of an old bolt. There are better ways to solve the problem. You can buy those things from HK, HobbyPartz, or a lot of other places really cheap (like $10). This is something you will use over and over and over in this hobby so I'd just pop the ten bucks and move on. :-) Here is one I like pretty well: http://www.batteryheatedclothing.com/g-t-power-servo-tester-ccpm-servo-consistency-master/ I think this is the same one (clone) from HK for $5.99, but if it's the only thing you order, the freight might kill you. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8296
...Tiger
On that note... I burned up a brushless motor today, and I don't know how. I had it connected to the ESC and a Lipo battery, and the motor was free to spin with no load. I connect it (either to the Propeller with PWM, or RC reciever, I don't remember) and a big puff of white smoke comes out. I immediately disconnect it, and move it to an open area. I try again with a previously good setup (battery, radio, esc, motor) and it just twitches and sends out puffs of smoke. I took the motor apart and there was no apparent damage. I took the ESC apart and no apparent damage there either. I have no idea what happened.
I am also a beginner and when my quad flips instead of taking off it is often that :
* the motors at not runing in the right direction: 2 motors CW and 2 motors CCW (read carefully the Hoverfly doc)
* the propellers are not in the right place : 2 propellers normal (running CCW) and 2 propellers pusher (running CW)
* the Hoverfly card is not in the right orientation (look at the configuration ( X or + ) in the Hoverfly doc.
You have also to program (better with a Turnigy card : costs about 7 $) and calibrate the ESC (one by one connecting it to the throttle channel of the receiver)
Cats92