Made some progress on assembling an ELEV-8 HEX this weekend. Although not nearly as agile to fly acrobatically as a ELEV-8 QUAD, the payload capacity and stability are nice additions. This one has the Hoverfly PRO board and auto-level enabled most of the time. Front orientation can also be a problem when it's round.
I'm starting to think that the Y-6 is actually the best design for aerial photography, next to an ELEV-8 QUAD. There's some redundancy among the motors that could provide some failsafe protection in a way the HEX cannot. If a HEX loses a motor it'll go over sideways, but a Y-6 will at least be able to descend even though it'd be rotating.
I haven't "lost" a motor anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm that concerned. The flight problems we had early on were really wiring-related.
I finally got my ELEV-8 assembled and wired up today. I still have to do all of the checkouts. But I ran it a little bit to see if the motors were turning the right direction, props on the right way, etc. I think one of my motors is bad, I ran them at just below where it wanted to take off for about 5 or 6 minutes and one of the motors was really hot when I shut everything down. Also, I'm a little confused on the orientation of the props on the prop adapters. Which side of the prop hub is to the motor. It appears there is a recessed area on one side of the prop hub and it would seem that the conical side of the prop washer would fit into that to center the prop. Is this right?
I'm going to pull the "hot" motor and take it apart and see if I can figure out what is wrong with it. Is there a schematic available for these motors? I'm going to do some serching on the web.
I finally got my ELEV-8 assembled and wired up today. I still have to do all of the checkouts. But I ran it a little bit to see if the motors were turning the right direction, props on the right way, etc. I think one of my motors is bad, I ran them at just below where it wanted to take off for about 5 or 6 minutes and one of the motors was really hot when I shut everything down. Also, I'm a little confused on the orientation of the props on the prop adapters. Which side of the prop hub is to the motor. It appears there is a recessed area on one side of the prop hub and it would seem that the conical side of the prop washer would fit into that to center the prop. Is this right?
I'm going to pull the "hot" motor and take it apart and see if I can figure out what is wrong with it. Is there a schematic available for these motors? I'm going to do some serching on the web.
dmagnus -
These motors generally don't get hot in my experience, but I'm sure it's possible. I can't help but wonder if it's actually the ESC somehow, but we can replace both of them. Send me your shipping address kgracey@parallax.com and I can get these parts off to you on Monday.
The propellers have a curvature to them - the curvature bulge is upwards. Or more easily, the raised lettering "APC" or "10x4.7" is facing up.
The bottom of the propeller has a larger inner diameter - this is where you put the wider hub locating ring by pressing it in. Each propeller should have two in one bag and you'll use the larger one.
Forum member Tiger (above) has taken these motors apart. After a bad crash he noticed that one of the magnets get moved around. You can put it back where it belongs and glue it in if that's the problem. Maybe there was some friction in the system or a bearing is transferring heat to the case.
Personally I know of none that large. What capacity battery are you using to power that monster?
Edit: There probably is some that large I just haven't run into a wire that large!
Hey Dave - I'm using a 4400 MAh 3S, which gives about 10 minutes flight time. While you're reading, can you tell me if you are coming to PEXPO in April?
@Dave - 30-40C is what it says, so it must be somewhere in between. Gotcha on UPEW - we'll be sure it's on-line for you. Tomorrow is the "video" portion of the planning meetings.
@dmagnus - thanks - ordered a few feet and will report back. The cost was okay but their shipping charges are a killer.
Ken and group,
I have several more flights on my wooden elev-8 variant. But yesterday did it in. I have been finding that from flight to flight i am having to give the craft some constant left during one and then some constant right on another. I land trim and fly and all is well. I disarm/ rearm and it is out again. Any ideas on this?
I am in the process of rebuilding. The Lite ply does not tolerate hard landing as i did yesterday. I am looking to build some replacement parts from Carbon fiber sheets.
I will keep you all posted....
Brian, I haven't had this kind of problem either. Is there much flex in the whole system, or it is rigid? I'm wondering if you've experimented with the gain settings very much - usually when it's too high the craft is "twitchy" and too low and it becomes "sluggish" or might even flip over. Have you flown Jason's code yet? That would tell us something too.
One other possibility could be that the board is not level upon power up. This will make the board get a false sense of level, and you will automatically think your trim settings are off, and go about trimming out you settings. However, after a few minutes of flight the board corrects itself and finds true level, and now you have drift issues again and you re-trim your controller again. You can go about this painful process all day. One thing that I have found is that if you take off without adjusting any settings, no matter if the craft is level or maybe off a little, and give a few full left, right, forward and backward throws of each stick, the craft is level and fine, and your trim settings are actually good. Just something that I have seen, as I used to constantly adjust my trims back and forth when I first started flying.
One other possibility could be that the board is not level upon power up.
Nick, I think he's got the SPORT board (no accelerometer) - could it be drift? I was wondering about the percentage throws on his elevator/aileron channels, too.
Ken - The heat shrink on batteries isn't the same stuff we use on wires and I've never seen it for sale except on huge rolls. Your best solution is to drop into a place like Batteries Plus or any of those places that make battery packs and see if you can buy what you need from them. I've always found them willing to help. When you shrink it, go easy on the heat. It shrinks much faster than what you're use to and a little to much heat will cause it to split. The stuff is really thin.
I'm guessing you are not finding this stuff because you are searching wrong. Try to Google it as "battery heat shrink". You can even narrow it down a little more by adding "PVC". Like I said above, the battery stuff is different than wire and doesn't come up in a regular heat shrink search. Well... Actually it does, but you'll never find it mixed in with ten million other responses.
Nick, I think he's got the SPORT board (no accelerometer) - could it be drift? I was wondering about the percentage throws on his elevator/aileron channels, too.
Ken Gracey
I wondered that myself. If I don't have the drift compensation set in my own code, taking the quad outside and flying it requires constant adjustment as it cools off. I don't recall the Sport having any kind of drift compensation, so that's certainly a possibility.
Biz, The propellers dictate CW and CCW not the motors. It does matter how you have them if you're using a HoveryFly board. Page 44 of the Sport board document should give you the information you're after.
Nick, I think he's got the SPORT board (no accelerometer) - could it be drift? I was wondering about the percentage throws on his elevator/aileron channels, too.
Ken Gracey
The next thing I was going to suggest was exactly that. It could very possibly be that the EPA"s of his channels are set to an un-equal value all around. Also, I saw that you mentioned it before, and that was that it could be a case of the Gain set to an odd value. Only by knowing the current configuration of the controller could we know what is going on, and if this is in fact what is causing the flight issues.
Brian, one other thing, have you tried re-flashing the board with a newer more up-to-date version? This may help your flight experience, and I have noticed different characteristics in the craft when running different verisons of the firmware. Try the AP version, as that one tends to be a little more forgiving and flys more like a Pro Board in my opinion.
Quick question on mounting the propellers. Does the pusher propeller go on the CW motor or the CCW motor or does it not matter?
Thank You,
Biz
Hey Biz, welcome as a newcomer to our forums. In the Hoverfly SPORT packaging you should have received a double-sided, color printed 8.5x11 piece of paper entitled HoverflySPORT Connection Diagram. If you didn't receive it you can download it here: http://www.hoverflytech.com/uploads/HoverflySPORTQuickStartGuideV1_2.pdf. On that document, you'll see a graphic that includes the picture below. This is looking down at the ELEV-8, from the top. The pusher props (APC 10x4.7P) are CW and the standard props (APC 10x4.7) are CCW.
I'm learning a lot here. Please excuse my density everybody, I didn't mean to spend so much of everybody's time and bandwidth on this prop stuff, but I am pretty confused. Somebody remind me to tell the story of the (pusher) prop on a kitplane I built many years ago...
Ok, in the box with the motors was what is shown in the picture Prop1.
In Prop2 I show the small, blue "adapter" fit into the recessed part of the prop hub. This would appear to center the prop on the shaft, but it is not shown on the picture on Page 1 of the instructions.
In Prop3 I show it as it appears on Page 1.
Prop 4 shows a closeup of the prop and the three parts.
After trial fitting everything, it seems as if nothing really fits and the props are somewhat loose on the motor shafts.
You don't use the little blue piece at all. There are two little plastic rings that come with the prop that have different inner diameters. You take the one with the larger opening and press it into the back of the propeller, then mount the prop on the threaded motor shaft. That little ring is what actually sets the prop to the correct size for the shaft, and if it's missing the prop will be loose.
Then you put the "washer" and the nut (shown in your 4th image above) on, exactly like you've shown in your 3rd image. You tighten the nut to press the prop the rest of the way down, ultimately sandwiching it tightly between the base of the prop mount and the prop washer.
Don, not a problem. If you want to see a ding-dong in the video show it just watch this. I'm sure it's probably best to slightly ream out the prop plastic rings just a bit since they fit tightly (I can almost hear our machinist friend Tiger from here saying "no!, Ken you're thrashing about!").
Don't feel bad asking any of these questions, there are builders on your heels that will benefit from the questions and examples. I'm sure I'll come up with more questions to express my density!
One thing Ken left out of the video was that you REALLY want to put some blue loctite on those four adapter screws.
...Tiger
And it's included in the kit, too. You're guaranteed (certain) to vibrate to pieces if you don't Loctite all metal/metal connections. I'd give one of these 30 mins of flight without Loctite.
I am going to post this in here because it is Elev-8 related. I am in the process of creating new pieces for my quad after a crash this weekend... SO, i decided to try it in solidworks. I have been working through the tutorials for about three weeks now and am loving it. I tried to download the solidworks model from the parallax website and it was not packed up correctly and was missing all of the files. I have redrawn them the way that i am currently using them. I like that i can make changes to one piece and see how it affects the others without having to cut it out first. My next step is to create a dome to fit over the top to cover the electronics. I still need to place the motors and other electronics but i am just getting started. I learned about the explode feature today and created a little video.
ordered some new motors tonight. i noticed that my problem was that i lost a bearing on a not so soft landing. i do not have landing gear on my craft yet and i hit the extended shaft of the motor and must have popped the keeper off and the bearing came out.
After months of reading, drooling, saving, and hand wringing, I just ordered my ELEV-8 kit! I'd say I'm at an intermediate level as far as soldering, assembling and coding, but am I total newbie as far as RC goes.
Comments
I'm starting to think that the Y-6 is actually the best design for aerial photography, next to an ELEV-8 QUAD. There's some redundancy among the motors that could provide some failsafe protection in a way the HEX cannot. If a HEX loses a motor it'll go over sideways, but a Y-6 will at least be able to descend even though it'd be rotating.
I haven't "lost" a motor anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm that concerned. The flight problems we had early on were really wiring-related.
Edit: There probably is some that large I just haven't run into a wire that large!
I'm going to pull the "hot" motor and take it apart and see if I can figure out what is wrong with it. Is there a schematic available for these motors? I'm going to do some serching on the web.
dmagnus -
These motors generally don't get hot in my experience, but I'm sure it's possible. I can't help but wonder if it's actually the ESC somehow, but we can replace both of them. Send me your shipping address kgracey@parallax.com and I can get these parts off to you on Monday.
The propellers have a curvature to them - the curvature bulge is upwards. Or more easily, the raised lettering "APC" or "10x4.7" is facing up.
The bottom of the propeller has a larger inner diameter - this is where you put the wider hub locating ring by pressing it in. Each propeller should have two in one bag and you'll use the larger one.
Forum member Tiger (above) has taken these motors apart. After a bad crash he noticed that one of the magnets get moved around. You can put it back where it belongs and glue it in if that's the problem. Maybe there was some friction in the system or a bearing is transferring heat to the case.
Ken Gracey
Hey Dave - I'm using a 4400 MAh 3S, which gives about 10 minutes flight time. While you're reading, can you tell me if you are coming to PEXPO in April?
@dmagnus - thanks - ordered a few feet and will report back. The cost was okay but their shipping charges are a killer.
I have several more flights on my wooden elev-8 variant. But yesterday did it in. I have been finding that from flight to flight i am having to give the craft some constant left during one and then some constant right on another. I land trim and fly and all is well. I disarm/ rearm and it is out again. Any ideas on this?
I am in the process of rebuilding. The Lite ply does not tolerate hard landing as i did yesterday. I am looking to build some replacement parts from Carbon fiber sheets.
I will keep you all posted....
Nick, I think he's got the SPORT board (no accelerometer) - could it be drift? I was wondering about the percentage throws on his elevator/aileron channels, too.
Ken Gracey
...Tiger
I'm guessing you are not finding this stuff because you are searching wrong. Try to Google it as "battery heat shrink". You can even narrow it down a little more by adding "PVC". Like I said above, the battery stuff is different than wire and doesn't come up in a regular heat shrink search. Well... Actually it does, but you'll never find it mixed in with ten million other responses.
Look at this search: http://www.google.com/search?q=battery+heat+shrink&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
...Tiger
I wondered that myself. If I don't have the drift compensation set in my own code, taking the quad outside and flying it requires constant adjustment as it cools off. I don't recall the Sport having any kind of drift compensation, so that's certainly a possibility.
Thank You,
Biz
The next thing I was going to suggest was exactly that. It could very possibly be that the EPA"s of his channels are set to an un-equal value all around. Also, I saw that you mentioned it before, and that was that it could be a case of the Gain set to an odd value. Only by knowing the current configuration of the controller could we know what is going on, and if this is in fact what is causing the flight issues.
Brian, one other thing, have you tried re-flashing the board with a newer more up-to-date version? This may help your flight experience, and I have noticed different characteristics in the craft when running different verisons of the firmware. Try the AP version, as that one tends to be a little more forgiving and flys more like a Pro Board in my opinion.
Hey Biz, welcome as a newcomer to our forums. In the Hoverfly SPORT packaging you should have received a double-sided, color printed 8.5x11 piece of paper entitled HoverflySPORT Connection Diagram. If you didn't receive it you can download it here: http://www.hoverflytech.com/uploads/HoverflySPORTQuickStartGuideV1_2.pdf. On that document, you'll see a graphic that includes the picture below. This is looking down at the ELEV-8, from the top. The pusher props (APC 10x4.7P) are CW and the standard props (APC 10x4.7) are CCW.
Ok, in the box with the motors was what is shown in the picture Prop1.
In Prop2 I show the small, blue "adapter" fit into the recessed part of the prop hub. This would appear to center the prop on the shaft, but it is not shown on the picture on Page 1 of the instructions.
In Prop3 I show it as it appears on Page 1.
Prop 4 shows a closeup of the prop and the three parts.
After trial fitting everything, it seems as if nothing really fits and the props are somewhat loose on the motor shafts.
Then you put the "washer" and the nut (shown in your 4th image above) on, exactly like you've shown in your 3rd image. You tighten the nut to press the prop the rest of the way down, ultimately sandwiching it tightly between the base of the prop mount and the prop washer.
Don't feel bad asking any of these questions, there are builders on your heels that will benefit from the questions and examples. I'm sure I'll come up with more questions to express my density!
...Tiger
And it's included in the kit, too. You're guaranteed (certain) to vibrate to pieces if you don't Loctite all metal/metal connections. I'd give one of these 30 mins of flight without Loctite.
http://youtu.be/02vSXBFe9QE ( i just started the upload so it should be there soon)
After months of reading, drooling, saving, and hand wringing, I just ordered my ELEV-8 kit! I'd say I'm at an intermediate level as far as soldering, assembling and coding, but am I total newbie as far as RC goes.
Wish me luck!