I was not as successful in my attempt at recreating my idea...
a very small plastic arm, and a triangular shaped piece of plastic.
Dylan,
Is this an idea for a soil sampling arm? If not, then what is it...?
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
Tomorrow, January 28th, is the 25th anniversary of the space shuttle 'Challenger' disaster. Recall that astronaut Christa McAuliffe was a teacher from Concord High School, the first teacher in space.
I did not have enough time to model my design today, ( it was a design for the release of the parachute). I still understand how it would function and what not, it is just that the few parts that it contains require multiple views to actually understand how it would function properly, ( it requires angles to be applied to the parts that are crucial to the correct functionality of the device).
Just want to confirm that I will be at the meeting tomorrow.... BEFORE 1 o'clock to make sure I'm not late.
I do have a few questions that I have not had the chance to ask:
1.) Mr. Kibler-- Would you be able to lend me one of the "What's a Microcontroller?" books? I believe it would help me learn the 'programming language' since I did start reading it during my flex block I had with you. So, if you have one with you, then would you mind me borowing it?
2.) What should I bring to the meeting tomorrow? (If anyone isn't already bringing them, I could whip up a fresh batch of cookies before I come? Who likes chocolate chip?!) A notebook? Binder? Pen, or pencil?
Since I wasn't at the last meeting, I may be a little behind everyone. But I will be sure to get there, ready to learn and do whatever I can to help out. I am trying out, so I have to give it my all for all the chances I get!
I just read on page 46 of the forum today (Andrew had posted this) that we already had a program that was pseudo-autonomous-- it moves forward one 'unit', back a third, turns clockwise, and stops to collect data. It repeats until the robot is retrieved and turned off.... so if we weren't able to get GPS working, then we still have this, am I correct?
Can't wait for tomorrow, especially to meet everyone that I don't already know that is trying out and already on the team! (should I bring cookies?)
~Ashley Becker~
Mr. Kibler-- Would you be able to lend me one of the "What's a Microcontroller?" books? I believe it would help me learn the 'programming language' since I did start reading it during my flex block I had with you. So, if you have one with you, then would you mind me borowing it?
Most if not all of the Parallax educational materials are available online, for free use (remarkable, isn't it?). Here's the WaM book:
Most... of the Parallax educational materials are available online, for free use (remarkable, isn't it?). Here's the WaM [What's A MicroController?"] book:
Yes, many of the Parallax publications ARE available at links on the Parallax website, as some of the Rocketeers have already discovered. As you mentioned the links include the WaM book, "MIni-Projects with the BASIC Stamp", etc. I marvel at Parallax and how user-friendly and customer oriented they are. They've helped us along over the years in so many ways. Thanks again, Parallax!
I can't figure out from the time of your post if you're up late or up early. ARe you heading out for another 10-mile hike? Do you snowshoe or ski or simply tromp through the snow? I must admit that I'm not much of a 'winter bunny'. I'm more like a chipmunk who stays inside, hibernating under the snow.
It's nice to see the amount of daylight getting longer each day. I'm a spring-through-fall fellow who loves gardening, hiking, and autumn leaves... and no snow! I have heirloom tomato plants already started in 5 gallon buckets in the dining room. With Gro-lamps 30 cm above each of them they're growing really well. They must be half a meter tall already, with great foliage (*I also make cheese...! Hail Wisconsin!)
I do have a few questions that I have not had the chance to ask:
2.)A notebook? Binder? Pen, or pencil?
I suggest bringing a binder with a notebook and something to write with. As Dylan mentioned in his last e-mail, please bring a laptop if you can and definitely bring a USB drive.
I just read on page 46 of the forum today (Andrew had posted this) that we already had a program that was pseudo-autonomous-- it moves forward one 'unit', back a third, turns clockwise, and stops to collect data. It repeats until the robot is retrieved and turned off.... so if we weren't able to get GPS working, then we still have this, am I correct?
Provided we do not utilize GPS navigation, we will simply be using the "pseudo-autonomous" movement routine, which as you said, moves forward one "unit", back a third, turns a little, and then stops to collect data -- continuing this process until the robot is located and turned off.
Looking forward to seeing everyone again,
-- Andrew
Andrew,
Thank you for responding, and I look forward to meeting everyone I don't already know!
I don't think I can bring a laptop, since my mom will probably be using it.
Thanks again,
~Ashley
Hi all,
Unfortanitly I have come down with a cold a few days ago, and I also have been really busy, so I haven't gotten a chance to post my idea for the parachute! I will be able to attend today. (sorry the reply was so late!) Anyhow, I was researching my idea for the magnetic parachute, and thanks to Mr. Kibler, I had an amazing thought. Work with me on this one, I've been thinking about for the past few days. Mr. Kibler posted on my magnetic parachute idea that there was a very good chance that the magnets would mess with the electronics on board. So i researched this, and i came up with the answer:
1) Yes it will interfere with the electronics.
But i also found something else interesting out:
2) Magnets can be used as an antenna.
Post your ideas on this. I'm pretty sure it will work. I'm going to try to draw a sketch of it before the next meeting.
"What would be more efficient:
A) sending our ASP's information through the timed magnet?
or Finding an alternative path with the parachute?
I think this just might work!
-Jake-
P.S Is there anything i can bring?
How about this warm weather (relatively speaking of course )
In my opinion, today's meeting was very efficacious. We each accomplished a lot in our individual teams, and it was great that we each accomplished our individual goals and that they seamlessly integrated with one another. It seems to me that all of you gained a better understanding of the parts and utilities we will be working with, such as the BOE and the HWB, the sensors, and how all of them work together. Also, it seemed to me that you all got the chance to experiment with the PBASIC programming language, which I know will benefit all of you greatly. Here are some questions and topics I think are worth discussing:
1) I know this has been thoroughly discussed, but we still need to agree on a primary mission goal. The rest of our work outside of practice is going to be based around this goal, so it's imperative that we firm up our mission goal(s) soon so no further time is wasted.
2) After today's meeting, how does everyone feel about their proficiency in programming in PBASIC? As each of you may have discovered, much of our time outside of practice will be spent programming and troubleshooting the software for our project. Are there any concepts regarding this programming language that you don't understand? Any other concerns or thoughts?
3) Before we lock in to any mission goals, does anyone have any ideas that haven't been discussed yet? Perhaps a (relatively) easy secondary mission goal, if time allows. Think and discuss projects analogous to soil sampling, etc.
Team,
I really enjoyed today's practice for a number of reason. I feel like we accomplished a lot, learned a lot, and learned more about each other. I know I learned about how motors work, and how to program Pbasic. To answer Andrew's question, no I don't have any questions about programing so far I stress the so far because I know I will have questions soon. As I said in practice I think splitting up into groups is efficient.
I think for our project goal we should try to make a rover. I think this because it seems like the next logical step and I think we can do it. Not just optimistically but realistically. I mean we have Andrew getting a head start on the GPS, Dylan and I made the beginnings of wheels today, and a bot was cloned as well a temp and humidity reader. I think if we can put all parts together at next practice that will be a good step forward. Questions: 1. I would like to learn more about what others did today, would anyone mind letting me know in detail what there mission was?
2. would our rover have treads or wheels?
3.Mr. K, can I have a homework board next practice so I can try out some of the things I will be reading about?
P.S. Stephanie the brownies were awesome!
Emily
Hello everyone,
I also feel like today we had a very productive meeting. When Stephanie and I had problems when we ran the software to record the temperature and humidity, we were able to figure out the problem, and fixed it. Teamwork is what that showed! That's what I think we did today: worked as a TEAM to make sure each mission was finished. Thanks to Jacob for helping us with our graph, I think your help with it will help me do it on my own in the future. Thanks to Obie for the RTC chip.
Jacob-- I think you should sketch your idea and bring it to the next meeting, it will give us the chance to discuss the idea and so everyone can see what you have on your mind.
Andrew-- 1.) I think that our primary mission goal should be the GPS navigation back to base, but others might say the soil collection? So at this point it still needs to be discussed.
2.) If I don't fully understand programming in PBASIC now, I will try to by the next meeting. Could you give me any tips on how to accomplish that?
3.) I will have to think about this one, and I hope others will post ideas so I can get ideas from them.
1.) About Jacob's idea, does anyone think that he should try giving us further explanation here on the forum? Just so we get deeper into it than the 'general idea'?
2.) As we were working in teams today, will we always do that? I feel that this helped us accomplish more than we could as a whole 'project team', so I liked that. It was also more productive!
3.) As Andrew said: does anyone else have any secondary mission goal ideas? What does everyone think our primary mission goal should be? Based on what I've learned, opinions and comments are very much welcomed, so they can be discussed.
I was glad to come to the meeting today, and I had a really great time! As Mr. Kibler said: Interest, Initiative, Aptitude, Attiude, and 100% Commitment!
I will definately be there on February 13th; I know this is a pretty early response to it, but it captivated me today, and I am glad to even be 'trying out' for the team!
P.S. I think everyone should explain what they did today to make sure I have a full understanding, as Emily said. I will tomorrow night, since I need to get to bed right now and get ready for a long day tomorrow.
~Ashley Becker~
I'll keep my comments short because I said everything I wanted to at the end of practice. Everyone demonstrated excellent teamwork today and I was pleasantly surprised when all three teams completed your mini-missions. I expected it would take two practices, not one. Then, all three teams combined the fruit of individual group labor to begin the larger "Team mission",which also showed good progress. Well done Rocketeers, very well done.
I'm pleased that nearly half the team posted to the forum this evening. I'll look for everyone else's posts tomorrow. Regular communication on the forum is crucial if we're going to do as well as we have so far, so please check in regularly and post questions, comments and concerns often.
Remember to ask our mentors-- Sylvie and Dr. Allen-- for their input, too. Their help will be needed further down the road when the programming gets, shall I say, "more interesting." Keep them up-to-date on the project so they unstand clearly what we're doing and where we're going.
Thanks for the brownies (Stephanie), the cookies (who brought them?!), and especially for the heat shield tile from a Soviet 'Buran' space shuttle (Andrew!) Where in the world did you ever come up with that?!
Well done team, well done,
ROCKETEERS,
Thanks for the brownies (Stephanie), the cookies (who brought them?!), and especially for the heat shield tile from a Soviet 'Buran' space shuttle (Andrew!) Where in the world did you ever come up with that?!
Mr. Kibler,
It's truly amazing what you can buy on the internet, isn't it? I just did some further research to compare the differences between the thermal protection system of NASA's shuttle and the Soviet Buran. The Buran contains an amazing amount of 38,600 tiles, 15% of which are uniquely shaped. Black-coated tiles are used where heat-absorption is most needed and white-coated tiles are used for minimizing radiation from the sun.
Questions: 1. I would like to learn more about what others did today, would anyone mind letting me know in detail what there mission was?
I can't speak for the other groups, but I had the chance to work with Jacob and Obie on assembling a BOE-Bot, then downloading the ASP-II "launch ready" program and graphing both indoor and outdoor humidity and temperature levels in Excel. It was a great chance to review some things I had forgotten since I last worked in the Parallax Stamp Editor and an opportunity for Jacob and Obie to learn even more.
2. Would our rover have treads or wheels?
I think treads would be our best option at this point. None of you, excluding Dylan and Mr. Kibler, have had the opportunity to visit the Black Rock Desert (yet!), but keep in mind that the desert floor is very soft and powder-like. Besides treads and wheels, are there any other options? Some teams that designed rovers last year used large foam wheels which seemed to function effectively. For the purposes of this question, perhaps it wouldn't hurt to reinvent the wheel!
Obie's Report, Jan 31, year 2011,
The meeting/practice was really well thought out and I learned a great deal, and patched a few wholes in my knowledge. I love the fact in that the way we were broken up, different teams working on different parts. For one it inspired communication between the teams because if we didn't we would have had a hard time figuring out in the end how everything works together. The teams in ways simulates what might happen in an actual lab in which the different teams work on seperate parts. I thought of subsystem integration which is kind of what our different parts were, Red team on robot, White on ASAP, and Blue on locomotion all come together to form one working machine. I liked welding, too, That was an interesting experience, creating useful parts for others, while using fire and metal. Kind of reminds me of smithing which I've wanted to try but haven't been able to. Also, its good to be able to make parts for electronics without hurting myself or anyone around me. Finally learning more about the PBASIC program helped and I now know what CR stands for.
Andrew, you stole my question from my lips. Anyways, I've given some thought to it and it is possible that we could give it legs to allow movement but that seems more complicated than its worth. And I agree with Andrew in that treads would be best because the sand is soft and shifty so a normal wheel would not have as much traction as treads and therefore be much less effecient.
Now some questions:
1. Do you need some sort of BOE board or another electronic board to run PBASIC or what are other ways could you run the program?
2. How did we protect the ASAP wiring last year, or did we protect it? Any ideas on how to better protect it this year?
3. Mr. Kibler, I know you showed me Shrink Wire (thats what it's called right) in order to protect linked wires. What other cool wiring tools are there?
Great practice everyone, see you all in T-minus 2 weeks.
Obie
Obie's Report, Jan 31, year 2011,
Andrew, you stole my question from my lips. Anyways, I've given some thought to it and it is possible that we could give it legs to allow movement but that seems more complicated than its worth. And I agree with Andrew in that treads would be best because the sand is soft and shifty so a normal wheel would not have as much traction as treads and therefore be much less effecient.
I will try not to get too caught up in small(er) details such as how the robot is going to move, whether it be wheels, treads, etc, but as far as your idea for "legs", Parallax does sell a crawler kit for the BOE-Bot. Is this what you had in mind? If so, it's not a bad option -- but will it be fast enough? Remember, if we do succeed in GPS navigation, the rover may have a several-mile long drive back "home." Take this all into consideration now so it isn't overlooked later.
1. Do you need some sort of BOE board or another electronic board to run PBASIC or what are other ways could you run the program?
If I'm not mistaken, PBASIC is a variation of the BASIC programming language intended for programming Parallax's BASIC Stamp. You don't necessarily need a Homework Board or Board of Education, but it's the easiest platform for inexperienced or new users.
2. How did we protect the ASAP wiring last year, or did we protect it? Any ideas on how to better protect it this year?
What are you referring to by wiring? If you are talking about the wiring on the breadboard, little was done other than securing the wires tightly (a silicon adhesive might have been used?). Since breadboards are intended for prototyping and testing purposes, it might be nice to invest in having a printed circuit board designed upon the completion of our project. However, this is something we would need to look into well in advance.
3. Mr. Kibler, I know you showed me Shrink Wire (thats what it's called right) in order to protect linked wires. What other cool wiring tools are there?
I'm not sure what you worked with at the last meeting, but I have a feeling you are referring to shrink tubing, which shrinks when exposed to heat. Simple and inexpensive tools such as that are great ways to keep the wires neat and can also reduce headaches later, from previous experience.
It seems like our project is gravitating toward having the ASP (ASP-BOT) land and then move. It seems like a mission is naturally evolving and defining itself. If this is our mission then we naturally must consider how to make the parachute detach at landing. I have a "simple" idea (*I've learned throughout the course of our projects to use the word "simply", cautiously):
1) Connect a servomotor to the parachute <---> robot attachment point. Program the BOE to read the MAWD so it moves the servo at "0" altitude, at landing (see my previous posts to Sylvie, and his response and ideas.)
2) Program the servomotors on the ASP-BOT similarly but use a 10 second (etc.) time delay before the robot starts to move.
What do you think?
Consider Sylvie and Dr. Allen's sage advice from last year: whether the robot hops, skips, jumps, or runs back to the launch point (if that is our mission) we MUST consider battery consumption and, converserly, the robot's weight (a heavier robot will drain the batteries quicker.) I contend that the faster the robot moves, and the lower the ground resistance (friction), the better. But I could be wrong? Thoughts, Dr. Allen? Sylvie? JP Allen? Treads are slower and have more traction = more friction = faster battery drain. I think...
We may have to downsize the BOE-BOT on treads to accomodate the battery (ADC chip, transmitters) so it fits inside the payload bay. We may HAVE to use something other than treads..
2) Find a link to the websites of various (Japanese, etc.) teams that built "come-back robots".
Some teams used Parallax platforms (BOE, Propeller, etc.) for their robots. I've also talked with some of the Japanese teams/mentors about using Parallax for their robots this year... a plug for Parallax!
3) If you find ARLISS teams that are using Parallax, post what you learn to this forum.
4) Locate these teams' e-mail addresses and post them to this forum. We'll contact them and maybe even collaborate (*they might even invite you to come to Japan... really!)
*The first Rocketeer to find an ARLISS team that used, or is using Parallax gets an extra "Stephanie brownie" at our next team practice!
Andrew,
Do you think you could post the graph so that I could take a look and figure it out?
Mr. Kibler
I think that your idea seems "simple" and efficant. I look at the post from Sylvie and I was wondering if the altitude of the black rock dessert s below sea level? I feel like that would most definitely matter.
Do you think you could post the graph so that I could take a look and figure it out?
Which graph...?
... is the altitude of the black rock desert below sea level?
Because of how it works (see Sylvie's previous post) the MAWD measures the launch pad's altitude as "0" feet AGL (above ground level) as opposed to ASL (above sea level). So if you're launching from atop a mountain, the starting altitude is still "0" and the MAWD (Mini Altimeter With Deployment feature) records how high the rocket actually goes
Cool link, Emily! Rocketeers, one of the Japanese teams is proposing a "robot come-back competition WITHOUT using GPS. Interesting indeed. Please read the link Emily attached above, then comment to the forum.
At first glance it seems more challenging that figuring out how to use the Parallax GPS navigation system. But that's simply at first glance. At the very least we could e-mail the Japanese team (e-mail address is in the link) and connect with them and make new friends.
Project Team,
I was unable to post last night due to time restraints, and this evening was the soonest time I had available to post.
There are a few major points I would like to bring up, based upon our last project. It seems like splitting the team up to complete different tasks is VERY efficient as well as productive. It allowed us to complete multiple tasks at once, but at the same time let us understand the purpose of what part each team was designing, as well as the importance. The second point is the fact that it went surprisingly smoothly. All problems that we encountered we were able to fix with almost no wasted time. In other words, everyone was able to address their problems and take hold of their resources immediately to solve the conflict that was at hand. Whether it be the Internet, books, common knowledge or even other teammates, a resource often over looked.
***** I COMPLETELY agree with Andrew on his first question. I think that priority is to establish a first and secondary mission goal. Once we have achieved that, we can pursue the mission goals with clear minds. Then we can start asking the tough questions that Dr. Allen and Sylvie can really assist us on. This may not seem top priority to everyone, but I believe that if we do not truly establish it, that we could just wander around in the dark and not truly achieve anything.
Emily,
The opportunity that the new competition has presented seems interesting, possibly a new mission goal? To change our mission goal that much seems tough, but if we really choose that it seems possible. Of course some emails between us and them would be required. To be honest, it seems even tougher then GPS navigation. Although that is just my opinion. I also believe that if that is really what we want to do that it could be possible for us to complete it.
In terms of finding other ARLISS project teams that we could benefit from, I found the entire list of teams from Japan during the 2009 season. I found teams that were specializing from controlling the speed of the fall by controlling the size of the hole in the parachute via string, (titech_Bteam_pre.pdf(file name)), to teams that chose to fly back via glider.
Here is the link to the list. http://arliss.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26&sid=06d7c0143ec82222349b265d37b31662
Anyone who has not yet had a chance to pick a team we could benefit from feel free to address the list for ideas.
Remember, I believe that addressing our first, second and maybe third project goals is top priority at the time for a successful head start on what we wish to accomplish.
Good work finding the weblink for the Japanese ARLISS teams. I looked at them and it seems, from the photos, that Tohoku University may be using a Parallax BOE as the "brains" of their 'come-back' robot. And...
...their robot navigated all the way back to the launch pad!Look at the photos on their weblink/download.
So we're on to something I think. Let's all look at the Japanese team pages at the link Dylan posted. Maybe we can learn something from them and collabrate with them...
The Tokyo Tech SDDL "Space Crawler" project seems to be using a Parallax BOE-bot with tank treads. Look at their information on the link Dylan posted. In their picture you can clearly see the orange "drive wheels" that move the tread. Can we assume they're also using a Parallax BOE? (This is one of the teams I talked to, two years ago. I suggested they consider using Parallax. ;-) They describe their project as a "hybrid mechanism"... just like ours!
I've had some time to think about sundays practice, (which I think was absolutely fantastic), and I think now is an appropriate time to post my response. First off, once again, thank you to Mr. Kibler for inviting a bunch of teenagers into his humble abode. Your home is so well designed! Secondly, I had an amazing time working with the BOE Bots and I personally learned alot. I was extremely proud of the fact that I could teach another group what I had learned from Andrew! It seems complicated at first, but it really is starting to fall into place now. And yes, I'm sure the scrumtious brownies helped .
Ashely-
I would be happy to graph and research more deeply on the magnet idea. Mr. Kibler said that it should be simple, and i think they are, becasue if anyone noticed my post at the bottom of page 53, I mentioned that magnets can be used as antennas. I'd call that hitting two birds with one stone.
I still really like the idea of getting a soil sample. Is that still in the air?
Andrew-
Thanks to you, I really got a feel for the BOE Bots and i would love to help in some way. Mr. Kibler told me that Parallax is sending him five more kits with everything (hopefully) included! if there's anything i could work on, involving bringing home a BOE, I would love to help! (And of course with anything else!).
Questions:
1) I know we have been talking about this, but what would be the most efficent way of traveling across the desert? wheels, treads, or spider?
2) Could we really focus on labeling our main focuses next meeting or here on the forums? I think everyone should post what they want the BOE this year to be!
3) besides deciding our main idea next meeting, what else would we like to accomplish?
Thanks so much
-JAKE-
Mr. Kibler,
Emily and I, or at least I, didn't save the program. After we finished the break we were just editing the values in a simple DO LOOP program. After that the entire team started editing the program. I cannot remember actually saving the program after, although we can recreate it within a few minutes. Emily might have saved it, I am not 100% sure though. If we didn't it is only a very minor setback. So far the soil sampling and the GPS seem to be the two candidates for a primary and a secondary mission goal. We will wait to see what everyone else has to say before making a decision.
If you would, go to your "What's a Microcontroller?" book (pages 71-72 ??) or go to the Parallax website, locate the program you were using on Sunday, then upload it to the forum. When we write programs, even small ones, BE SURE TO SAVE THEM on your flash drive. That's why we bring them to practice. Oft times we use them later in the project.
In my "What's a Micro controller" book, page 71 deals with LED's. We were also dealing with the BoE-Bot book, not the one for the micro controller. If you could tell me the book's title and the version I could look up the program, since I only have the, "Whats a Micro-controller?" book.
Comments
Dylan,
Is this an idea for a soil sampling arm? If not, then what is it...?
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
Tomorrow, January 28th, is the 25th anniversary of the space shuttle 'Challenger' disaster. Recall that astronaut Christa McAuliffe was a teacher from Concord High School, the first teacher in space.
I do have a few questions that I have not had the chance to ask:
1.) Mr. Kibler-- Would you be able to lend me one of the "What's a Microcontroller?" books? I believe it would help me learn the 'programming language' since I did start reading it during my flex block I had with you. So, if you have one with you, then would you mind me borowing it?
2.) What should I bring to the meeting tomorrow? (If anyone isn't already bringing them, I could whip up a fresh batch of cookies before I come? Who likes chocolate chip?!) A notebook? Binder? Pen, or pencil?
Since I wasn't at the last meeting, I may be a little behind everyone. But I will be sure to get there, ready to learn and do whatever I can to help out. I am trying out, so I have to give it my all for all the chances I get!
I just read on page 46 of the forum today (Andrew had posted this) that we already had a program that was pseudo-autonomous-- it moves forward one 'unit', back a third, turns clockwise, and stops to collect data. It repeats until the robot is retrieved and turned off.... so if we weren't able to get GPS working, then we still have this, am I correct?
Can't wait for tomorrow, especially to meet everyone that I don't already know that is trying out and already on the team! (should I bring cookies?)
~Ashley Becker~
P.S.: My email is becker316972@aol.com if anyone needs to contact me.
Most if not all of the Parallax educational materials are available online, for free use (remarkable, isn't it?). Here's the WaM book:
http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/prod/edu/28123-WAM-v3.0.pdf
~Ashley
Thanks Sylvie,
Yes, many of the Parallax publications ARE available at links on the Parallax website, as some of the Rocketeers have already discovered. As you mentioned the links include the WaM book, "MIni-Projects with the BASIC Stamp", etc. I marvel at Parallax and how user-friendly and customer oriented they are. They've helped us along over the years in so many ways. Thanks again, Parallax!
I can't figure out from the time of your post if you're up late or up early. ARe you heading out for another 10-mile hike? Do you snowshoe or ski or simply tromp through the snow? I must admit that I'm not much of a 'winter bunny'. I'm more like a chipmunk who stays inside, hibernating under the snow.
It's nice to see the amount of daylight getting longer each day. I'm a spring-through-fall fellow who loves gardening, hiking, and autumn leaves... and no snow!
Good morning,
(yawn)
Mark
I suggest bringing a binder with a notebook and something to write with. As Dylan mentioned in his last e-mail, please bring a laptop if you can and definitely bring a USB drive.
Provided we do not utilize GPS navigation, we will simply be using the "pseudo-autonomous" movement routine, which as you said, moves forward one "unit", back a third, turns a little, and then stops to collect data -- continuing this process until the robot is located and turned off.
Looking forward to seeing everyone again,
-- Andrew
Thank you for responding, and I look forward to meeting everyone I don't already know!
I don't think I can bring a laptop, since my mom will probably be using it.
Thanks again,
~Ashley
Unfortanitly I have come down with a cold a few days ago, and I also have been really busy, so I haven't gotten a chance to post my idea for the parachute! I will be able to attend today. (sorry the reply was so late!) Anyhow, I was researching my idea for the magnetic parachute, and thanks to Mr. Kibler, I had an amazing thought. Work with me on this one, I've been thinking about for the past few days. Mr. Kibler posted on my magnetic parachute idea that there was a very good chance that the magnets would mess with the electronics on board. So i researched this, and i came up with the answer:
1) Yes it will interfere with the electronics.
But i also found something else interesting out:
2) Magnets can be used as an antenna.
Post your ideas on this. I'm pretty sure it will work. I'm going to try to draw a sketch of it before the next meeting.
"What would be more efficient:
A) sending our ASP's information through the timed magnet?
or
I think this just might work!
-Jake-
P.S Is there anything i can bring?
How about this warm weather (relatively speaking of course
In my opinion, today's meeting was very efficacious. We each accomplished a lot in our individual teams, and it was great that we each accomplished our individual goals and that they seamlessly integrated with one another. It seems to me that all of you gained a better understanding of the parts and utilities we will be working with, such as the BOE and the HWB, the sensors, and how all of them work together. Also, it seemed to me that you all got the chance to experiment with the PBASIC programming language, which I know will benefit all of you greatly. Here are some questions and topics I think are worth discussing:
1) I know this has been thoroughly discussed, but we still need to agree on a primary mission goal. The rest of our work outside of practice is going to be based around this goal, so it's imperative that we firm up our mission goal(s) soon so no further time is wasted.
2) After today's meeting, how does everyone feel about their proficiency in programming in PBASIC? As each of you may have discovered, much of our time outside of practice will be spent programming and troubleshooting the software for our project. Are there any concepts regarding this programming language that you don't understand? Any other concerns or thoughts?
3) Before we lock in to any mission goals, does anyone have any ideas that haven't been discussed yet? Perhaps a (relatively) easy secondary mission goal, if time allows. Think and discuss projects analogous to soil sampling, etc.
-- Andrew
I really enjoyed today's practice for a number of reason. I feel like we accomplished a lot, learned a lot, and learned more about each other. I know I learned about how motors work, and how to program Pbasic. To answer Andrew's question, no I don't have any questions about programing so far I stress the so far because I know I will have questions soon. As I said in practice I think splitting up into groups is efficient.
I think for our project goal we should try to make a rover. I think this because it seems like the next logical step and I think we can do it. Not just optimistically but realistically. I mean we have Andrew getting a head start on the GPS, Dylan and I made the beginnings of wheels today, and a bot was cloned as well a temp and humidity reader. I think if we can put all parts together at next practice that will be a good step forward.
Questions:
1. I would like to learn more about what others did today, would anyone mind letting me know in detail what there mission was?
2. would our rover have treads or wheels?
3.Mr. K, can I have a homework board next practice so I can try out some of the things I will be reading about?
P.S. Stephanie the brownies were awesome!
Emily
I also feel like today we had a very productive meeting. When Stephanie and I had problems when we ran the software to record the temperature and humidity, we were able to figure out the problem, and fixed it. Teamwork is what that showed! That's what I think we did today: worked as a TEAM to make sure each mission was finished. Thanks to Jacob for helping us with our graph, I think your help with it will help me do it on my own in the future. Thanks to Obie for the RTC chip.
Jacob-- I think you should sketch your idea and bring it to the next meeting, it will give us the chance to discuss the idea and so everyone can see what you have on your mind.
Andrew-- 1.) I think that our primary mission goal should be the GPS navigation back to base, but others might say the soil collection? So at this point it still needs to be discussed.
2.) If I don't fully understand programming in PBASIC now, I will try to by the next meeting. Could you give me any tips on how to accomplish that?
3.) I will have to think about this one, and I hope others will post ideas so I can get ideas from them.
1.) About Jacob's idea, does anyone think that he should try giving us further explanation here on the forum? Just so we get deeper into it than the 'general idea'?
2.) As we were working in teams today, will we always do that? I feel that this helped us accomplish more than we could as a whole 'project team', so I liked that. It was also more productive!
3.) As Andrew said: does anyone else have any secondary mission goal ideas? What does everyone think our primary mission goal should be? Based on what I've learned, opinions and comments are very much welcomed, so they can be discussed.
I was glad to come to the meeting today, and I had a really great time! As Mr. Kibler said: Interest, Initiative, Aptitude, Attiude, and 100% Commitment!
I will definately be there on February 13th; I know this is a pretty early response to it, but it captivated me today, and I am glad to even be 'trying out' for the team!
P.S. I think everyone should explain what they did today to make sure I have a full understanding, as Emily said. I will tomorrow night, since I need to get to bed right now and get ready for a long day tomorrow.
~Ashley Becker~
I'll keep my comments short because I said everything I wanted to at the end of practice. Everyone demonstrated excellent teamwork today and I was pleasantly surprised when all three teams completed your mini-missions. I expected it would take two practices, not one. Then, all three teams combined the fruit of individual group labor to begin the larger "Team mission",which also showed good progress. Well done Rocketeers, very well done.
I'm pleased that nearly half the team posted to the forum this evening. I'll look for everyone else's posts tomorrow. Regular communication on the forum is crucial if we're going to do as well as we have so far, so please check in regularly and post questions, comments and concerns often.
Remember to ask our mentors-- Sylvie and Dr. Allen-- for their input, too. Their help will be needed further down the road when the programming gets, shall I say, "more interesting." Keep them up-to-date on the project so they unstand clearly what we're doing and where we're going.
Thanks for the brownies (Stephanie), the cookies (who brought them?!), and especially for the heat shield tile from a Soviet 'Buran' space shuttle (Andrew!) Where in the world did you ever come up with that?!
Well done team, well done,
Mr. Kibler
:nerd:
... and let's not forget Leadership and Service to Others.
Mr. Kibler
Mr. Kibler,
It's truly amazing what you can buy on the internet, isn't it? I just did some further research to compare the differences between the thermal protection system of NASA's shuttle and the Soviet Buran. The Buran contains an amazing amount of 38,600 tiles, 15% of which are uniquely shaped. Black-coated tiles are used where heat-absorption is most needed and white-coated tiles are used for minimizing radiation from the sun.
Andrew
I can't speak for the other groups, but I had the chance to work with Jacob and Obie on assembling a BOE-Bot, then downloading the ASP-II "launch ready" program and graphing both indoor and outdoor humidity and temperature levels in Excel. It was a great chance to review some things I had forgotten since I last worked in the Parallax Stamp Editor and an opportunity for Jacob and Obie to learn even more.
I think treads would be our best option at this point. None of you, excluding Dylan and Mr. Kibler, have had the opportunity to visit the Black Rock Desert (yet!), but keep in mind that the desert floor is very soft and powder-like. Besides treads and wheels, are there any other options? Some teams that designed rovers last year used large foam wheels which seemed to function effectively. For the purposes of this question, perhaps it wouldn't hurt to reinvent the wheel!
-- Andrew
The meeting/practice was really well thought out and I learned a great deal, and patched a few wholes in my knowledge. I love the fact in that the way we were broken up, different teams working on different parts. For one it inspired communication between the teams because if we didn't we would have had a hard time figuring out in the end how everything works together. The teams in ways simulates what might happen in an actual lab in which the different teams work on seperate parts. I thought of subsystem integration which is kind of what our different parts were, Red team on robot, White on ASAP, and Blue on locomotion all come together to form one working machine. I liked welding, too, That was an interesting experience, creating useful parts for others, while using fire and metal. Kind of reminds me of smithing which I've wanted to try but haven't been able to. Also, its good to be able to make parts for electronics without hurting myself or anyone around me. Finally learning more about the PBASIC program helped and I now know what CR stands for.
Andrew, you stole my question from my lips. Anyways, I've given some thought to it and it is possible that we could give it legs to allow movement but that seems more complicated than its worth. And I agree with Andrew in that treads would be best because the sand is soft and shifty so a normal wheel would not have as much traction as treads and therefore be much less effecient.
Now some questions:
1. Do you need some sort of BOE board or another electronic board to run PBASIC or what are other ways could you run the program?
2. How did we protect the ASAP wiring last year, or did we protect it? Any ideas on how to better protect it this year?
3. Mr. Kibler, I know you showed me Shrink Wire (thats what it's called right) in order to protect linked wires. What other cool wiring tools are there?
Great practice everyone, see you all in T-minus 2 weeks.
Obie
I will try not to get too caught up in small(er) details such as how the robot is going to move, whether it be wheels, treads, etc, but as far as your idea for "legs", Parallax does sell a crawler kit for the BOE-Bot. Is this what you had in mind? If so, it's not a bad option -- but will it be fast enough? Remember, if we do succeed in GPS navigation, the rover may have a several-mile long drive back "home." Take this all into consideration now so it isn't overlooked later.
If I'm not mistaken, PBASIC is a variation of the BASIC programming language intended for programming Parallax's BASIC Stamp. You don't necessarily need a Homework Board or Board of Education, but it's the easiest platform for inexperienced or new users.
What are you referring to by wiring? If you are talking about the wiring on the breadboard, little was done other than securing the wires tightly (a silicon adhesive might have been used?). Since breadboards are intended for prototyping and testing purposes, it might be nice to invest in having a printed circuit board designed upon the completion of our project. However, this is something we would need to look into well in advance.
I'm not sure what you worked with at the last meeting, but I have a feeling you are referring to shrink tubing, which shrinks when exposed to heat. Simple and inexpensive tools such as that are great ways to keep the wires neat and can also reduce headaches later, from previous experience.
-- Andrew
It seems like our project is gravitating toward having the ASP (ASP-BOT) land and then move. It seems like a mission is naturally evolving and defining itself. If this is our mission then we naturally must consider how to make the parachute detach at landing. I have a "simple" idea (*I've learned throughout the course of our projects to use the word "simply", cautiously):
1) Connect a servomotor to the parachute <---> robot attachment point. Program the BOE to read the MAWD so it moves the servo at "0" altitude, at landing (see my previous posts to Sylvie, and his response and ideas.)
2) Program the servomotors on the ASP-BOT similarly but use a 10 second (etc.) time delay before the robot starts to move.
What do you think?
Consider Sylvie and Dr. Allen's sage advice from last year: whether the robot hops, skips, jumps, or runs back to the launch point (if that is our mission) we MUST consider battery consumption and, converserly, the robot's weight (a heavier robot will drain the batteries quicker.) I contend that the faster the robot moves, and the lower the ground resistance (friction), the better. But I could be wrong? Thoughts, Dr. Allen? Sylvie? JP Allen? Treads are slower and have more traction = more friction = faster battery drain. I think...
We may have to downsize the BOE-BOT on treads to accomodate the battery (ADC chip, transmitters) so it fits inside the payload bay. We may HAVE to use something other than treads..
HOMEWORK FOR ALL:
1) Go to the ARLISS and/or Aeropac websites (www.arliss.org and www.aeropac.org)
2) Find a link to the websites of various (Japanese, etc.) teams that built "come-back robots".
Some teams used Parallax platforms (BOE, Propeller, etc.) for their robots. I've also talked with some of the Japanese teams/mentors about using Parallax for their robots this year... a plug for Parallax!
3) If you find ARLISS teams that are using Parallax, post what you learn to this forum.
4) Locate these teams' e-mail addresses and post them to this forum. We'll contact them and maybe even collaborate (*they might even invite you to come to Japan... really!)
*The first Rocketeer to find an ARLISS team that used, or is using Parallax gets an extra "Stephanie brownie" at our next team practice!
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
Do you think you could post the graph so that I could take a look and figure it out?
Mr. Kibler
I think that your idea seems "simple" and efficant. I look at the post from Sylvie and I was wondering if the altitude of the black rock dessert s below sea level? I feel like that would most definitely matter.
And I look on ARLISS2010 and found an interesting link.
https://8298848456582626643-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/arliss2010/files/RoverComebackCompetition.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cqOCzkRA--JQiNigUIVj0zKT3UCdbs9e5uTI_XzW0vNrTlJEBC6DzsNMnblJsFx9gwvl5tgliiSpfM95udRWy_fHZHHGELvOT1tBS6OGbxZFg6OtXe80n5YyPa57nJa7d6IpHTrEcC7wqiEJ24Or40uw0iAnjfzU64ZibR6IbT_7Pna0rIH8Xga7pht_m4cpxSzcq7jY5wzFOjH8M-QUNj7q2Hlsi11AhTYwA7go6UC9JfSMKU%3D&attredirects=0
Emily
Which graph...?
Because of how it works (see Sylvie's previous post) the MAWD measures the launch pad's altitude as "0" feet AGL (above ground level) as opposed to ASL (above sea level). So if you're launching from atop a mountain, the starting altitude is still "0" and the MAWD (Mini Altimeter With Deployment feature) records how high the rocket actually goes
Cool link, Emily! Rocketeers, one of the Japanese teams is proposing a "robot come-back competition WITHOUT using GPS. Interesting indeed. Please read the link Emily attached above, then comment to the forum.
At first glance it seems more challenging that figuring out how to use the Parallax GPS navigation system. But that's simply at first glance. At the very least we could e-mail the Japanese team (e-mail address is in the link) and connect with them and make new friends.
Good work Emily!
Mr.Kibler
;-)
I was unable to post last night due to time restraints, and this evening was the soonest time I had available to post.
There are a few major points I would like to bring up, based upon our last project. It seems like splitting the team up to complete different tasks is VERY efficient as well as productive. It allowed us to complete multiple tasks at once, but at the same time let us understand the purpose of what part each team was designing, as well as the importance. The second point is the fact that it went surprisingly smoothly. All problems that we encountered we were able to fix with almost no wasted time. In other words, everyone was able to address their problems and take hold of their resources immediately to solve the conflict that was at hand. Whether it be the Internet, books, common knowledge or even other teammates, a resource often over looked.
***** I COMPLETELY agree with Andrew on his first question. I think that priority is to establish a first and secondary mission goal. Once we have achieved that, we can pursue the mission goals with clear minds. Then we can start asking the tough questions that Dr. Allen and Sylvie can really assist us on. This may not seem top priority to everyone, but I believe that if we do not truly establish it, that we could just wander around in the dark and not truly achieve anything.
Emily,
The opportunity that the new competition has presented seems interesting, possibly a new mission goal? To change our mission goal that much seems tough, but if we really choose that it seems possible. Of course some emails between us and them would be required. To be honest, it seems even tougher then GPS navigation. Although that is just my opinion. I also believe that if that is really what we want to do that it could be possible for us to complete it.
In terms of finding other ARLISS project teams that we could benefit from, I found the entire list of teams from Japan during the 2009 season. I found teams that were specializing from controlling the speed of the fall by controlling the size of the hole in the parachute via string, (titech_Bteam_pre.pdf(file name)), to teams that chose to fly back via glider.
Here is the link to the list. http://arliss.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26&sid=06d7c0143ec82222349b265d37b31662
Anyone who has not yet had a chance to pick a team we could benefit from feel free to address the list for ideas.
Remember, I believe that addressing our first, second and maybe third project goals is top priority at the time for a successful head start on what we wish to accomplish.
Good work finding the weblink for the Japanese ARLISS teams. I looked at them and it seems, from the photos, that Tohoku University may be using a Parallax BOE as the "brains" of their 'come-back' robot. And...
...their robot navigated all the way back to the launch pad! Look at the photos on their weblink/download.
So we're on to something I think. Let's all look at the Japanese team pages at the link Dylan posted. Maybe we can learn something from them and collabrate with them...
Well done,
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
The Tokyo Tech SDDL "Space Crawler" project seems to be using a Parallax BOE-bot with tank treads. Look at their information on the link Dylan posted. In their picture you can clearly see the orange "drive wheels" that move the tread. Can we assume they're also using a Parallax BOE? (This is one of the teams I talked to, two years ago. I suggested they consider using Parallax. ;-) They describe their project as a "hybrid mechanism"... just like ours!
Mr. Kibler
Ashely-
I would be happy to graph and research more deeply on the magnet idea. Mr. Kibler said that it should be simple, and i think they are, becasue if anyone noticed my post at the bottom of page 53, I mentioned that magnets can be used as antennas. I'd call that hitting two birds with one stone.
I still really like the idea of getting a soil sample. Is that still in the air?
Andrew-
Thanks to you, I really got a feel for the BOE Bots and i would love to help in some way. Mr. Kibler told me that Parallax is sending him five more kits with everything (hopefully) included! if there's anything i could work on, involving bringing home a BOE, I would love to help! (And of course with anything else!).
Questions:
1) I know we have been talking about this, but what would be the most efficent way of traveling across the desert? wheels, treads, or spider?
2) Could we really focus on labeling our main focuses next meeting or here on the forums? I think everyone should post what they want the BOE this year to be!
3) besides deciding our main idea next meeting, what else would we like to accomplish?
Thanks so much
-JAKE-
Jake,
There is no soil in the air... It's on the ground.
Mr. Kibler
:cool:
Dylan and/or Emily,
Would you post the program code you were working with on Sunday to the forum please? I have a small assignment for everyone.
EVERYONE, Stay tuned to the forum for details on this assignment. And keep up the really, really good communication and teamwork.
Mr. Kibler
Emily and I, or at least I, didn't save the program. After we finished the break we were just editing the values in a simple DO LOOP program. After that the entire team started editing the program. I cannot remember actually saving the program after, although we can recreate it within a few minutes. Emily might have saved it, I am not 100% sure though. If we didn't it is only a very minor setback. So far the soil sampling and the GPS seem to be the two candidates for a primary and a secondary mission goal. We will wait to see what everyone else has to say before making a decision.
If you would, go to your "What's a Microcontroller?" book (pages 71-72 ??) or go to the Parallax website, locate the program you were using on Sunday, then upload it to the forum. When we write programs, even small ones, BE SURE TO SAVE THEM on your flash drive. That's why we bring them to practice. Oft times we use them later in the project.
Thanks,
Mr. Kibler
:nerd: