@Baggers,
What throws me off there is trying to think of things done on the SX *and* AVR platforms that would have been somewhat substantial.
I am assuming that the SX-based game woud have been on the XGameStation or Rickard Gunee's http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/sx/gamesys.php
For the AVR, it could have either been Uzebox, XGS AVR, or ...any number of others [noparse];)[/noparse] Many more options there.
Other than raycasting (which it sounds like it is not)...
There are "mario clones" (sidescrollers) on several of these that end up being only a few screens. Something on the scale of Sonic-like GFX would be impressive there.
There have been "breakout/pong" games on several of these as well. Maybe one with "flair" like a smooth scrolling backdrop, etc.
potatohead, are you sure? maybe he posted a link to something, but iirc, it had yellow walls, ah, yes, it was a scan of something also, cos it wasn't a clean image.
trodoss, funny you should mention Rickard.gunee.com as his pic game system, was what got me started on my electronics, and pic programming, then onto the prop, as I wanted something with a little more of a kick, I did however get 8bit rgb out of the pic [noparse]:D[/noparse] and also the pics I had you couldn't write to program eeprom damn buggy pic chips lol, if only every ucontroller was as good as a parallax [noparse]:D[/noparse] I mean even the rs232 was buggy, it wouldn't do 8bit, only 9bit lmao. give me a prop anyday [noparse]:D[/noparse]
getting warmer, I'm liking you're guesses, with thinking scale and scrollers [noparse]:D[/noparse] and "flair"'d breakout/pong.
Well, if anything, it's time to go and review the best of the early 90's! Any excuse to do that is a good excuse!
Virtual Pinball?
R-TYPE shooter?
Let's see, why would an AVR or SX fail?
So much fun!
I'm pretty sure more color can be had on the Prop, with less overhead and difficulty. Not really a primary demo bit though. We know it's the fat pixel driver, so that's 16 colors, with color indirection. (which is cool BTW --expensive feature for Propeller)
The COG's means doing sound, video, video low level, input, logic and other things with more robust code.
Do we know if this is TV or VGA, or both.... ?
With VGA, overlay tricks are easily done. This could save some serious compute / sprite masking / layering, bumping up the number of moving objects.
Now, the one or two props is just blowing my mind! So then, the whole thing has to scale. Run it on one prop, and it's amazing. Run it on two, and it's more amazing! What kinds of things do that... Prop GFX does that in the two prop scenario.
Do we know whether or not the Prop is THE CPU, as in not using others for the demo? (probably, otherwise why do it right?)
So then maybe a two player deal? One player, one Prop? Two players, two props?
...ahh back to work for a time to mull over the great efforts of the 90's.
[noparse]:)[/noparse]
If I'm reading it right, this is a hasn't been done on a micro. So then, who has tried besides Baggers?
potatohead, I'm loving you're thinking, very good [noparse]:)[/noparse]
To shed a little light on it, it's TV not VGA, that might make the thought process a little more directed at the moment.
oh, btw, I made a mod to the fat pixel driver [noparse]:D[/noparse]
I'll also give you another clue, it can run on a single prop, or a prop with PropGFX, hence the 1 or two props.
and you're right about so much fun, I'm quite enjoying this [noparse]:D[/noparse]
We have pretty much all the Z80 ops except: Block compares, Block I/O, EX, EXX and anything requiring indexed addressing with an offset. These are easy to do, except maybe the I/O, it's just that we got lazy. None of the code we run uses that stuff and the EXZ80 instruction set exerciser passes all but one test I think now.
Having the ROMs is one thing, after that it gets complicated as we would have to emulate the hardware the ROMs expect.
Ah but, what I was thinking is that if you were willing to cough up the source code to 3d Monster Maze it could be adapted so as not to need the real ROMs and use whatever facilities we have instead.
I imagine the bigest hurdle here is creating a similar looking graphics mode. Ideally this would be on blade #1 of the TriBlade Prop, say. With graphics commands pumped over the high speed serial link from the emulation on Blade #2.
Alternatively 16K RAM we can do in HUB for a Demo Board version if that leaves room for the graphics.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Whatever it is, it will be impressive I just cannot grasp any concept of how games are written... sprites and all !
Baggers/Coley have a TriBlade pcb Blade #1 also has provision for 512KB external RAM directly accessible in 2KB or 4KB (I keep forgetting) chunks.
IIRC, the ZX81 didn't use I/O instructions as they were mapped into the memory space. Unfortunately if this is the case we would need to intercept the memory addresses which would slow things down a little.
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Well, he did say scaling, and breakout flair. I'm not sure breakout is a clue more than a distraction. Maybe it's play mechanics.
So, perhaps this demo involves more than a game pad?
LOL!!
A DDR type game would fit the criteria, but for the sound.... So would a Wii type of game where cool hardware is a part of the show.
Strengths of propeller:
Easy use of multiple input output devices, graphics (and I wonder just what the modification was --I'll bet it's tiles so that sprites can exist with the scrolling.), sound, dual display...
And I'm also thinking it's interactive, not static like the Linus demo is. There are people at the show, so they are gonna want to put their hands on it --or Baggers would want them too, while chatting everybody up on the tech. PropGFX is confusing me actually, when coupled with "scale". Oh well, more later when I re-read all the clues during a slow time today!
potatohead, very good train of thought, and yes, I would want people to be able to interact with it [noparse]:D[/noparse]
also, don't forget PropGFX also has the ability to use custom cog drivers, you're not just fixed with what comes with it, you can add your own [noparse]:D[/noparse]
I'll give you a big clue, Emulation isn't the answer, we don't have a 6502 yet, if it was I'd have said on here, as a few prople are working on emu, including your good self [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I was just trying to feel out scope. Trust me when I know it's native code. The big open area is the time frame for the kinds of things that are "impressive". So, I thought I would toss out a machine.
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What throws me off there is trying to think of things done on the SX *and* AVR platforms that would have been somewhat substantial.
I am assuming that the SX-based game woud have been on the XGameStation or Rickard Gunee's http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/sx/gamesys.php
For the AVR, it could have either been Uzebox, XGS AVR, or ...any number of others [noparse];)[/noparse] Many more options there.
Other than raycasting (which it sounds like it is not)...
There are "mario clones" (sidescrollers) on several of these that end up being only a few screens. Something on the scale of Sonic-like GFX would be impressive there.
There have been "breakout/pong" games on several of these as well. Maybe one with "flair" like a smooth scrolling backdrop, etc.
trodoss, funny you should mention Rickard.gunee.com as his pic game system, was what got me started on my electronics, and pic programming, then onto the prop, as I wanted something with a little more of a kick, I did however get 8bit rgb out of the pic [noparse]:D[/noparse] and also the pics I had you couldn't write to program eeprom damn buggy pic chips lol, if only every ucontroller was as good as a parallax [noparse]:D[/noparse] I mean even the rs232 was buggy, it wouldn't do 8bit, only 9bit lmao. give me a prop anyday [noparse]:D[/noparse]
getting warmer, I'm liking you're guesses, with thinking scale and scrollers [noparse]:D[/noparse] and "flair"'d breakout/pong.
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http://www.propgfx.co.uk/forum/·home of the PropGFX Lite
·
Virtual Pinball?
R-TYPE shooter?
Let's see, why would an AVR or SX fail?
So much fun!
I'm pretty sure more color can be had on the Prop, with less overhead and difficulty. Not really a primary demo bit though. We know it's the fat pixel driver, so that's 16 colors, with color indirection. (which is cool BTW --expensive feature for Propeller)
The COG's means doing sound, video, video low level, input, logic and other things with more robust code.
Do we know if this is TV or VGA, or both.... ?
With VGA, overlay tricks are easily done. This could save some serious compute / sprite masking / layering, bumping up the number of moving objects.
Now, the one or two props is just blowing my mind! So then, the whole thing has to scale. Run it on one prop, and it's amazing. Run it on two, and it's more amazing! What kinds of things do that... Prop GFX does that in the two prop scenario.
Do we know whether or not the Prop is THE CPU, as in not using others for the demo? (probably, otherwise why do it right?)
So then maybe a two player deal? One player, one Prop? Two players, two props?
...ahh back to work for a time to mull over the great efforts of the 90's.
[noparse]:)[/noparse]
If I'm reading it right, this is a hasn't been done on a micro. So then, who has tried besides Baggers?
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Post Edited (potatohead) : 10/8/2009 4:16:05 PM GMT
To shed a little light on it, it's TV not VGA, that might make the thought process a little more directed at the moment.
oh, btw, I made a mod to the fat pixel driver [noparse]:D[/noparse]
I'll also give you another clue, it can run on a single prop, or a prop with PropGFX, hence the 1 or two props.
and you're right about so much fun, I'm quite enjoying this [noparse]:D[/noparse]
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For me, the past is not over yet.
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We have pretty much all the Z80 ops except: Block compares, Block I/O, EX, EXX and anything requiring indexed addressing with an offset. These are easy to do, except maybe the I/O, it's just that we got lazy. None of the code we run uses that stuff and the EXZ80 instruction set exerciser passes all but one test I think now.
Having the ROMs is one thing, after that it gets complicated as we would have to emulate the hardware the ROMs expect.
Ah but, what I was thinking is that if you were willing to cough up the source code to 3d Monster Maze it could be adapted so as not to need the real ROMs and use whatever facilities we have instead.
I imagine the bigest hurdle here is creating a similar looking graphics mode. Ideally this would be on blade #1 of the TriBlade Prop, say. With graphics commands pumped over the high speed serial link from the emulation on Blade #2.
Alternatively 16K RAM we can do in HUB for a Demo Board version if that leaves room for the graphics.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Post Edited (heater) : 10/8/2009 7:46:43 PM GMT
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For me, the past is not over yet.
My 3D Monster Maze was on prop in spin, the original was in Z80 by Malcolm Evans, I don't have source.
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Baggers/Coley have a TriBlade pcb
IIRC, the ZX81 didn't use I/O instructions as they were mapped into the memory space. Unfortunately if this is the case we would need to intercept the memory addresses which would slow things down a little.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade, RetroBlade,·TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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Maybe we could put the posters avatar in the finished product........
What do you think Baaggers?
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Jazzed, I thought it wouldn't be too detrimental to the guessing game [noparse]:)[/noparse]
potatohead, yeah I am really enjoying this [noparse]:)[/noparse] it's interesting what ideas people are coming up with.
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Is there a tile/sprite size for the GFX? Maybe that would help narrow it down.
[noparse][[/noparse]Edit:] Also, is it in the "Arcade" genere?· Would knowing the genre of game be too telling?
Post Edited (trodoss) : 10/9/2009 2:03:10 PM GMT
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So, perhaps this demo involves more than a game pad?
LOL!!
A DDR type game would fit the criteria, but for the sound.... So would a Wii type of game where cool hardware is a part of the show.
Strengths of propeller:
Easy use of multiple input output devices, graphics (and I wonder just what the modification was --I'll bet it's tiles so that sprites can exist with the scrolling.), sound, dual display...
And I'm also thinking it's interactive, not static like the Linus demo is. There are people at the show, so they are gonna want to put their hands on it --or Baggers would want them too, while chatting everybody up on the tech. PropGFX is confusing me actually, when coupled with "scale". Oh well, more later when I re-read all the clues during a slow time today!
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also, don't forget PropGFX also has the ability to use custom cog drivers, you're not just fixed with what comes with it, you can add your own [noparse]:D[/noparse]
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Was thinking about that part of it.
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Well, does that mean the release of PropGFX? I sure hope so.
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Second that!
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maybe.......
And maybe there's something else that's even better, who knows
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(resets scope of guesses)
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VIC20 = cold, and too old. Cool! Thanks.
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