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My New Demo to be unveiled at Eindhoven — Parallax Forums

My New Demo to be unveiled at Eindhoven

BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
edited 2009-12-11 08:59 in Propeller 1
Hi All,

· Just to build a bit of suspense, since taking some time off work after the TGS demo I had to do, I've been catching up with family things, and also working on a big surprise demo that will be shown at the parallax stall at the Eindhoven show [noparse]:D[/noparse]

Oh, and to say that I'm pleased with it, is somewhat of an understatement, I'm pretty certain this demo will definitely turn a few heads·to say the least!

I will also be releasing the demo on this forum after the show.

Baggers.
·



Edit: added source to this first post.

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Post Edited (Baggers) : 11/25/2009 3:28:18 PM GMT
zip
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JB_Wolf_Eindhoven_Release.zip
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Comments

  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 916
    edited 2009-10-06 13:49
    Baggers - that's just teasing !

    Rgds,
    John

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    ·
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 13:51
    Oh John, it's more than teasing, I just have to say something, I don't know how long I can keep a lid on this, it's just too good [noparse]:)[/noparse] ( even if I do say so myself ) as you can probably guess with my reply, I'm well pleased with it!!

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    ·
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-10-06 13:53
    @Baggers

    We won't let you suffer.. Post a video.. [noparse]:)[/noparse] [noparse]:)[/noparse] [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    OBC

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  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2009-10-06 13:56
    Well Baggers, I'm pleased you are pleased, I know how that feels and how hard it can be when you can't tell anyone about stuff you have put so much effort and "genius" into. At least you can shout about once it's unveiled at the show. No more teasing us then, hey Baggers!?

    (Your next reply better be a clue, not a tease)

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 13:57
    OBC, if I post a video, ( which I'd love to, it'll ruin the effect at Eindhoven ) but as this is something specifically written for Eindhoven, to show the propeller off, then I'm afraid it's a no-can-do mate [noparse]:([/noparse] not just yet! I want this to have maximum effect [noparse]:D[/noparse] but trust me on this OBC, you WILL ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!

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    ·
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 13:59
    Ok, a clue, it's an advancement on something I've done before!

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    ·
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 916
    edited 2009-10-06 14:12
    Baggers - you have done loads before ! I suppose we'll just have to wait !

    I am pretty sure it will be awesome though.

    Regards,
    John Twomey

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    ·
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 14:52
    Thanks John [noparse]:D[/noparse]

    And yeah, I suppose I have done lots, but I do promise it'll be well worth the wait!

    Baggers.

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    ·
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2009-10-06 15:06
    Oh man... I can't wait!

    Excellent!

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 15:29
    Oh by the way on a side note, I've also been thinking about doing a display driver for atari 2600, but you give it the data in a list, rather than at runtime, that way the 6502 emu, will only have to write to the part of the buffer for that time slot in the display.
    so, potatohead, is it worth doing, or was you wanting to take it another way with the emu?

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    ·
  • ericballericball Posts: 774
    edited 2009-10-06 15:39
    Baggers said...
    Oh by the way on a side note, I've also been thinking about doing a display driver for atari 2600, but you give it the data in a list, rather than at runtime, that way the 6502 emu, will only have to write to the part of the buffer for that time slot in the display.
    so, potatohead, is it worth doing, or was you wanting to take it another way with the emu?
    The problem is most 2600 games dynamically update the TIA registers during the scanline, often impacting the graphics displayed during the remainder of the scanline.· Or are you thinking of breaking your virtual TIA into two parts - an input driver which is sync'd to the 6502 and keeps track of the register updates and writes the resulting graphics into a line buffer, and an output driver which simply reads the line buffer into WAITVIDs?


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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 15:44
    I was thinking for instance, the TIA's sprites are only one byte long per scanline + 1 colour, so was going to have a buffer for the screen y size so you could just set the value in whichever Y position the scan is at, same with the 40 stretched pixels for the scanline, 5 bytes, layed out like the 2600's so that you don't need to mess around with it, you just set it's value at whatever scanline you're on, the display driver would then be a frame behind the 6502, but would mean that the 6502 wouldn't need to be locked to 50/60fps

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    ·
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 15:46
    Oh, btw [noparse]:)[/noparse] just to let you know, the demo for the show, was in SPIN, but is now in PASM, and is running in it's full glory at 60fps [noparse]:D[/noparse]

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    ·
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-10-06 15:53
    Fat pixel Street Fighter? Whatever it is I'm sure will be marvelous for the Propeller. You'll make us hack it open?
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,110
    edited 2009-10-06 16:01
    @Baggers - I knew you wouldn't be able to contain yourself........ turn.gif

    @Everyone - I can assure you all it will be worth the wait.....

    We both keep saying one thing in particular 'OBC will love it' (That isn't a clue btw, Baggers has said too much already lol)

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 16:02
    Jazzed, sorry, it's not Street Fighter [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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    ·
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2009-10-06 16:05
    IMHO, Baggars that approach makes a lot of sense. From what I've learned so far, I'm not convinced the Propeller can be frame locked to the TV display. Maybe in PAL, where there is more time, but then again maybe not.

    Also IMHO, the killer is to get back on 6502. I know more now, so maybe I can make progress on that again. Thinking of just expanding the SPIN version so that it actually does what is needed, then we've got more to PASM. I noticed that once Baggars and I ventured off into PASM land, it got kind of messy right quick. A big part of that was me jumping way too far into the deep end [noparse]:)[/noparse] The other thing that occured to me was to break down Heaters ZiCOG and bend it to do 6502 code. My guess is a ton of re-work is done there already. I've got giving that a good look on my TODO list, just to get a lay of the land.

    The quality text effort is nearly done [noparse]:)[/noparse] Not sure why, but I just wanted to get that out the door and into people's hands. Very soon, that one can be put in the OBEX, and then others can bolt it onto this and that like what happened before.

    I'm excited over the prospect of another Propeller demo. It's such a fun little chip, and I personally don't think it's come close to being fully exploited. Maybe Jim will change that perception --more than likely though, just raise the bar a few solid notches!!

    (damn, I HATE waiting... tap...tap...tap..*&^)*&^&*^ tappity, tap, tap tap!)

    [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 16:18
    Yeah, that's why I thought of doing it so you could just update a displaylist so to speak, which would then render it, realtime, so like you say, go in slow debug mode [noparse]:D[/noparse]
    Yeah, going into spin might also be a good idea, until we've got full functionality sorted, than we can PASM it up, at least we'll then know what needs to go into it.
    As for your great text driver, great app, there should be many many uses for it [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    The propeller is like you say such a fun little chip, I just love coding for it, it's just soooo versatile [noparse]:)[/noparse] and like you say, we're only just scraping the lid off it now.
    sorry for the waiting

    Baggers. [noparse]:D[/noparse]

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    ·
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-10-06 16:26
    Perhaps if we poke Baggers a little more we'll get a few more clues from him... [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    poke... poke.. poke... poke..

    OBC

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  • ericballericball Posts: 774
    edited 2009-10-06 16:50
    Baggers said...
    I was thinking for instance, the TIA's sprites are only one byte long per scanline + 1 colour, so was going to have a buffer for the screen y size so you could just set the value in whichever Y position the scan is at, same with the 40 stretched pixels for the scanline, 5 bytes, layed out like the 2600's so that you don't need to mess around with it, you just set it's value at whatever scanline you're on, the display driver would then be a frame behind the 6502, but would mean that the 6502 wouldn't need to be locked to 50/60fps
    A common 2600 trick is to put the two player (8 bit) sprites adjacent to each other in three copy close mode so the sprites are displayed as P0P1P0P1P0P1, then update the P0 and P1 registers while the copies are being displayed - creating a 48 pixel sprite!· Many of these tricks rely upon the 6502 being in sync with the video output so the programmer can change the TIA register at exactly the correct clock cycle.


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  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2009-10-06 17:18
    Don't be sorry Baggars. That just makes the showing that much greater. Bittersweet kind of thing. All good!

    Eric, I know what you mean. Tons of cycle exact tricks! It's basically true that EVERY VCS display is cycle locked. Still, assuming a CPU that runs properly, an emulation has got to be boot strapped to be debugged. Could use a scope for that, I suppose.. Ugly though. A buffer of sorts makes sense for that, but it's early still. CPU must come first.

    Maybe it's not doable at all. Don't know yet, but it's so tempting because of the size of the Propeller RAM, and how the video / COGs work. Maybe the < 8K efforts can be done.

    The speed result of the ZiCOG project is favorable, as is the early PASM CPU effort. The partial 6502 ran over VCS speed, and Heater has sorted out a lot of tricks since then. His initial Z80 ran below speed using multiple COGs. A later effort, on a single COG ended up running at, or slightly above speed. Another notch in favor of this is the proven 100Mhz stable operation. I was testing at 96, and it was close. That 4 percent might matter.

    Regardless of that, I think the display being abstracted for a time will help boot strap things. We are gonna find out eventually [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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  • TonyF (spinvent.co.uk)TonyF (spinvent.co.uk) Posts: 50
    edited 2009-10-06 17:40
    ouch... such teasing!

    see all you UK (and EU) propeller heads in Eindhoven, this WILL be interesting

    Tony F burger.gif
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2009-10-06 17:53
    Oh..good! It's something related to video! With baggers, it usually is, and it's ALWAYS great!

    (that means that it isn't what I am working on currently that will also be awesome when it is done) smile.gifsmile.gif

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 17:55
    OBC, a clue is what I've done has been tried to be reproduced on other uControllers, ( well as far as I know ) , but not ever been close, let alone as close as I've got it :P, this isn't to say what the others have done on other uControllers aren't impressive, just that the prop is much MORE impressive [noparse]:D[/noparse]

    TonyF, see you in Eindhoven [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    cheers microcontrolled [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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    ·
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2009-10-06 18:27
    Baggers said...
    OBC, a clue is what I've done has been tried to be reproduced on other uControllers, ( well as far as I know ) , but not ever been close, let alone as close as I've got it :P, this isn't to say what the others have done on other uControllers aren't impressive, just that the prop is much MORE impressive [noparse]:D[/noparse]

    TonyF, see you in Eindhoven [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    cheers microcontrolled [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Turbulence II on 150" Plasma? smilewinkgrin.gif

    When is the show?

    Jim
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 18:32
    ROFL, It's not Turbulence II, that would be for Linus to write [noparse];)[/noparse]

    Hopefully this will be as impressive for you guys ;D

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 18:40
    hover1 said...

    When is the show?

    On Saturday, November 21, 2009 from 9:30 to 17:00

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  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2009-10-06 18:48
    That's too long. Well I guess we have some time to extract (torture) for more information!

    Jim
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-10-06 18:49
    bring it on lol [noparse]:D[/noparse] don't worry, it's gonna be torture keeping a lid on this. it's too good not to be telling anyone. lol

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  • lonesocklonesock Posts: 917
    edited 2009-10-06 19:13
    As an unbiased outsider who can not attend the show, I volunteer to be the person with whom you share all the details. [noparse][[/noparse]8^)

    Jonathan

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