I think bss was a miss type of bs2 basic stamp 2 not sure though
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
the switches are optional and for those that want to test recoverable systems. thought about loading like that but this gives more flexibility. space wise I can only provide about 16 io or so anyways
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
BSS is a reference to the Basic Stamp Supercomputer SLRM talks about on page 1 of this thread. And he does state "Basic Stamp Super Computer"(sic) at the top of his post.
@localroger - Please tolerate my ignorance here... aren't you doing a disservice by taking all the EEPROM's away? I like memory... lots and lots of it! And the more each Prop can operate as a complete unit unto itself, the better, IMHO. As to the power management issue, I definitely prefer your dynamic control method over a hardwired method; no additional hardware / cost / space, and it's more real-time adaptable.
Ned
Added: mctrivia - if you're only bringing 16 lines out to the headers, could you put through holes near the remainders... for example, if you brought out just even numbered pins, then there might be room between full traces for a short trace to a through hole where the user could still connect "straight to" the odd pins.
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
most people would use the 0 Ohm bypass(don't worry about cost I will provide 100 free with each pcb order they are $20 for 5000) the reason for switch option is to test failure condition see page 1. software shut down is preferable.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Where do you get $1280? By my math, I've got $256 for the props, and maybe another $50 for everything else (as it stands).
@James Michael Huselton, mctrivia, others...
I suppose I could have made it slightly more clear. I guess I should have included the actual abbreviation in the parenthesis, but honestly I assumed that nearly all the forum members have seen the post. It has had 30,000+ visits...
Me earlier said...
I was thinking along the lines of what I posted on Humanoido's Basic Stamp Super Computer (BSS) thread in the completed projects forum.
Me said...
I like the idea. Your BSS could 'morph' to do whatever needs to be done...
Anyway, the switch on each prop is not to save power, but to play around with reliability of the system as a whole when one or more components drop out.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
@SLRM - like mctrivia said, that's for populating a carrier board with 32 1" X 1" PropMods. That's $1280 Canadian... it would only be $960 US, so it's practically free by comparison.
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
@WNed -- as I understand it the original proposal is that all the props on a board will share the same EEPROM, so they receive the same program. As for more storage, if I was doing it I'd probably give the master a SD card too...
the 1x1 propmod see link in first post is $30 assembled. includes eeprom crystal and prop. I said it would be to expensive to put 32 of those on 1 board.
you are right on the price of the prop
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
well for me to build it would be estimated $30+$20n
I still don't know how much the power supply will be and things get a bit more going over the boarder. once the design is done and parts list confirm we can see if someone can give a better price then me.
I will write up tutorials on how to do yourself if anyone wants to do it themselves.
as for the 1x1 boards it did add confusion but I think it ok. after this is done I will design the modular board for you. best place for comements about the 1x1 though is in its thread.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
or maybe we could make 32 boards would make $70 cheaper
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
So, there will be a single EEPROM that all the Props will get their initial code from?
Whatever you use as a master unit will need to be a separate unit, like a PropPlug or PropMod, so it can run a separate executive program... it could then route dynamic code to the sub-units. As Jazzed mentioned earlier, an interesting challenge for software development...
Added: Steve, how about HMM... Hive Memory Management?
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
no every prop has its own eeprom. every prop will be identical in every way except the id number.
programer can make one a master or keep them all equal.
if I have room I will make the id pins optional and repurposeable.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Sorry I am already getting married to a wonderful woman in 10.414Ms
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
I have moved the id pins to P21-25. Because the props are only 12mil separation in each row there is no access to pins P21-P25 and P5-P9(Think I may squeak 9 out) so these will be the pins I use for inter prop and id.
As for power unless someone can find something better I will use this:
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
For power, I think you should also provide hookup points for a computer power supply line. I have several just waiting to be used.
Also, I think you should use every pin on every prop in some way. Quite a few should be for I/O, but you can also put lot's of onboard peripherals like ram, tv, VGA, etc. For 32 props, I'd probably want duplicates for all systems. You may want to consider going 3D: two boards, separated by standoffs, with simple wire connections between them.
By the way, what unit of time is your countdown clock in?
so it is currently in mega seconds. It automatically changes the prefix to keep in engineering notation.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
I do plan to include headers so these boards can be stacked to get more then 32 props all working together.
All pins will be used in one way or another(header, bus, id).
I will not be including any dedicated hardware* for several reasons.
1) no space
2) want every prop to be identical(except id)
3) allows for users to place hardware where they want how they want by connecting to header pins.
*Only exception to this is I may include a uSD card reader pads with header if space is available or serial ram pads to each prop if space is available.
I am trying to keep the board cost to $15 so the PCB will be small and very compact.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
WNed said...
...
Whatever you use as a master unit will need to be a separate unit, like a PropPlug or PropMod, so it can run a separate executive program... it could then route dynamic code to the sub-units. As Jazzed mentioned earlier, an interesting challenge for software development...
Added: Steve, how about HMM... Hive Memory Management?
I don't have enough system experience to provide a complete answer [noparse]:)[/noparse]
It seems that a remote services solution might be a start for using the resources. Having big hash keys would not be very feasible. A name-server endpoint look up implemented as a red-black binary tree would be more effective I think. Then given a reasonable service point lookup, you could off-load the lookup function from the "primary" propeller to a "well-known" processor. The hardware "PID" that mac defined could be host identifier and cog number might suffix it so that a PID endpoint can be a simple hex byte like 0x51 for example. Then the main cog 0xn0 for any of the other n propellers can be a message dispatch manager. In some ways this is like forking applications with a fixed number of possible PIDs. A·"pipe" could be used once connections are established for RPC. Good thing you don't have to worry about marshalling data.
Really the beauty of the thing is, you buy one, decide what you want to do with it, then you load that pizza up with all the toppings you want, and none you don't want. Anyone interested in a prepackaged, fully loaded board already has Cluso's multiblade boards available. I think it's definitely the right idea keeping it simple, versatile, and cost limited. I've got a uController SD card module I can put on it if I want. I've got the accessory pack for a Prop Proto board I can use with it if I want keyboard, mouse, etc. but I'm not stuck with any of it if I don't want it on there.
@McT - I was really pretty surprised you are going for full EEPROM support because of the added cost, but very pleased because it adds to the basic versatility of the product. Thank you so much for making something not so much to sell a million of them (I sure hope you do), but more for the "because we want to see what we can do with it" crowd.
@Steve - I cursed myself seeing I'd written "management" when the proper word was model... ah well. You've given me a lot to think about (and a thing or two to look up), but I suspect you have a talent for that. Fortunately, with each Prop having the capability to act as a fully functional unit on its own, some of the development / implementation complexity is removed. You aren't constrained to writing a one size fits all boot loader, then sending each Prop's specific code down some pipeline - each Prop can boot up into whatever end functionality it's supposed to have. Dynamic, adaptive programming becomes an option rather than a requirement. I like very much, though, the idea of a concierge cog on each Prop (cog 0xn0) to advertise / manage services:
"Right here, ladies and gentlemen, right here! We've got GPS, that's right the best GPS on this entire cluster! Did I mention our Digital Compass?"
"Oh, don't listen to that windbag. What you want is servo control... this little Prop right here can control 8 servos without raisin' a sweat. Just tell me which one and how much to move it."
but I digress...
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
James - The neat thing about having individual EEPROMs is that with them the Props don't have to be the same, code-wise. By making them hardware identical, you allow them to be code flexible. If you wanted to, you could run them like 32 completely separate Props that just happen to be sitting on one board, or you could have them all sitting there doing the exact same thing. You have the choice.
Would you be able to assemble individual boards or do you need to batch them?
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Comments
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
@localroger - Please tolerate my ignorance here... aren't you doing a disservice by taking all the EEPROM's away? I like memory... lots and lots of it! And the more each Prop can operate as a complete unit unto itself, the better, IMHO. As to the power management issue, I definitely prefer your dynamic control method over a hardwired method; no additional hardware / cost / space, and it's more real-time adaptable.
Ned
Added: mctrivia - if you're only bringing 16 lines out to the headers, could you put through holes near the remainders... for example, if you brought out just even numbered pins, then there might be room between full traces for a short trace to a through hole where the user could still connect "straight to" the odd pins.
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Post Edited (WNed) : 4/16/2009 7:51:18 PM GMT
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Where do you get $1280? By my math, I've got $256 for the props, and maybe another $50 for everything else (as it stands).
@James Michael Huselton, mctrivia, others...
I suppose I could have made it slightly more clear. I guess I should have included the actual abbreviation in the parenthesis, but honestly I assumed that nearly all the forum members have seen the post. It has had 30,000+ visits...
Anyway, the switch on each prop is not to save power, but to play around with reliability of the system as a whole when one or more components drop out.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
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JMH
you are right on the price of the prop
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
What do you guess you'll be able to sell the fully populated 32 Prop monster board for?
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
I still don't know how much the power supply will be and things get a bit more going over the boarder. once the design is done and parts list confirm we can see if someone can give a better price then me.
I will write up tutorials on how to do yourself if anyone wants to do it themselves.
as for the 1x1 boards it did add confusion but I think it ok. after this is done I will design the modular board for you. best place for comements about the 1x1 though is in its thread.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Interesting design.
From:.parallax.com
Price = $7.99 : $7.99 * 32 = $US 255.68
Starting from: 20 pieces $7.59 : $7.59 * 32 = $US 242.88
Starting from: 100 pieces $7.19
Starting from: 250 pieces $6.79
Starting from: 500 pieces $6.39
Starting from: 1000 pieces $5.99
The price is getting there.
Maybe we can get a daily special to buy 32 in a package deal.
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Aka: CosmicBob
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Whatever you use as a master unit will need to be a separate unit, like a PropPlug or PropMod, so it can run a separate executive program... it could then route dynamic code to the sub-units. As Jazzed mentioned earlier, an interesting challenge for software development...
Added: Steve, how about HMM... Hive Memory Management?
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Post Edited (WNed) : 4/17/2009 2:32:18 AM GMT
programer can make one a master or keep them all equal.
if I have room I will make the id pins optional and repurposeable.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Will you marry me?
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Post Edited (WNed) : 4/17/2009 3:55:44 AM GMT
Sorry I am already getting married to a wonderful woman in 10.414Ms
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Once you get the power and timing locked in, this monster board is going to be fantastic!
Oh, Congrats on the engagement too!
Ned
Actually, I wish I could help more with the hardware issues, but the years I spent working on hardware were mostly as a swaptronics technician.
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
As for power unless someone can find something better I will use this:
LM2679-3.3 (3.3V, 5A)
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
Also, I think you should use every pin on every prop in some way. Quite a few should be for I/O, but you can also put lot's of onboard peripherals like ram, tv, VGA, etc. For 32 props, I'd probably want duplicates for all systems. You may want to consider going 3D: two boards, separated by standoffs, with simple wire connections between them.
By the way, what unit of time is your countdown clock in?
the SI unit for time is the second so the proper way to tell time is in seconds not hours, minutes, days, or years.
In metric:
G=10^9
M=10^6
k=10^3
c=10^-2
m=10^-3
u=10^-6
n=10^-9
p=10^-12
so it is currently in mega seconds. It automatically changes the prefix to keep in engineering notation.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
All pins will be used in one way or another(header, bus, id).
I will not be including any dedicated hardware* for several reasons.
1) no space
2) want every prop to be identical(except id)
3) allows for users to place hardware where they want how they want by connecting to header pins.
*Only exception to this is I may include a uSD card reader pads with header if space is available or serial ram pads to each prop if space is available.
I am trying to keep the board cost to $15 so the PCB will be small and very compact.
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
It seems that a remote services solution might be a start for using the resources. Having big hash keys would not be very feasible. A name-server endpoint look up implemented as a red-black binary tree would be more effective I think. Then given a reasonable service point lookup, you could off-load the lookup function from the "primary" propeller to a "well-known" processor. The hardware "PID" that mac defined could be host identifier and cog number might suffix it so that a PID endpoint can be a simple hex byte like 0x51 for example. Then the main cog 0xn0 for any of the other n propellers can be a message dispatch manager. In some ways this is like forking applications with a fixed number of possible PIDs. A·"pipe" could be used once connections are established for RPC. Good thing you don't have to worry about marshalling data.
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
Post Edited (jazzed) : 4/17/2009 6:46:04 AM GMT
@McT - I was really pretty surprised you are going for full EEPROM support because of the added cost, but very pleased because it adds to the basic versatility of the product. Thank you so much for making something not so much to sell a million of them (I sure hope you do), but more for the "because we want to see what we can do with it" crowd.
@Steve - I cursed myself seeing I'd written "management" when the proper word was model... ah well. You've given me a lot to think about (and a thing or two to look up), but I suspect you have a talent for that. Fortunately, with each Prop having the capability to act as a fully functional unit on its own, some of the development / implementation complexity is removed. You aren't constrained to writing a one size fits all boot loader, then sending each Prop's specific code down some pipeline - each Prop can boot up into whatever end functionality it's supposed to have. Dynamic, adaptive programming becomes an option rather than a requirement. I like very much, though, the idea of a concierge cog on each Prop (cog 0xn0) to advertise / manage services:
"Right here, ladies and gentlemen, right here! We've got GPS, that's right the best GPS on this entire cluster! Did I mention our Digital Compass?"
"Oh, don't listen to that windbag. What you want is servo control... this little Prop right here can control 8 servos without raisin' a sweat. Just tell me which one and how much to move it."
but I digress...
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
I don't see the need for each prop to have an eeprom.
If they are all exactly the same code wise, why couldn't the code the cascading?
Just asking here, I definitely do not have the funds to build such a project. Although if tightly packed, I may be able to assemble it.
James L
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James L
Partner/Designer
Lil Brother SMT Assembly Services
Would you be able to assemble individual boards or do you need to batch them?
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
·
with this.
Here you have some info on this type of driver
Post Edited (dMajo) : 4/17/2009 2:14:00 PM GMT