as i posted before are there any beta's that i can play with or something like that. I am in the middle of learning vb.net. Next step is assembler. I know borland pascal, quick basic, dos basic, and to show my age trsdos basic does anyone remember that one. Of course some c++ and such in there.
now watching you and what you are doing at this point should give all of us that dabble in programing a base line to shoot for. I envy you on your abilities in that area.
Congratulations there then for ground-up development. That VS Shell seems to have a ~400MB redistributable run-time package necessary for end-user use made me do a double-take.
@hippy: that's why I ran away from it not to mention developing the packages to go in it.
Whilst I do not (expletive) about Microsoft in general I do beleive that whenever they release a new software product I do believe that they should bundle a new hard drive (large capacity) with it[noparse]:)[/noparse]
count me in too.. I am very interested, I use a mac for bs2 development and would love to be able to do the same for propeller.. currently I have a really old laptop I use for propeller development.
I have one question.
Can You have one HEX Editor module in Yours IDE.
Many binary files have Clock/XTal tied to 5MHz crystal but if I run 10 else 14.318 I will edit binary to it and recalculate it to new checksum.
One binaries that I path manually that way was Fridof Forth and it is many other that pople can test if it is simply to edit.
Exemple HEX Listing.
FFFFYYXX > Clock setings = 5 000 000.
FFFFxxxx>·XTal setings. = XTal (x)
FFFFxxxx> other setings.
etc...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Is this a free utility ?
I'm assuming it's not, looks too professional to be free...
Any price range ?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Living on the planet Earth might be expensive but it includes a free trip around the sun every year...
Experience level:
[noparse][[/noparse] ] Let's connect the motor to pin 1, it's a 6V motor so it should be fine.
[noparse][[/noparse] ] OK, I got my resistors hooked up with the LEDs.
[noparse][[/noparse]X] I got the Motor hooked up with the H-bridge and the 555 is supplying the PWM.
[noparse][[/noparse] ] Now, if I can only program the BOE-BOT to interface with he Flux Capacitor.
[noparse][[/noparse] ] I dream in SX28 assembler...
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offence at my writing style
Alec,
It's somewhat of a dream. The ability to estimate stack size accurately depends on the compiler doing what's called a flow analysis of the program which is a complex optimization process that involves statically simulating the program to see what methods call what other methods. For simple programs (and methods) it's possible to do a much simpler process, but it's still the province of the compiler, not the IDE.
I'm really looking forward to trying this. One potential bug ... Looking at your first screenshot; the status bar says "Ln 3 Col 82"; that doesn't seem to match where the cursor appears to be in the source code.
It is almost complete just some testing with the compiler configuration control and some buffing of the GUI.
To all of you who have posted questions, comments and offers to test please forgive my lack of replies as I have been busy trying to wrap up this project.
When time allows in the next few days I will post back.
I have posted here a screen shot of the latest build.
Yeah, once it gets in the wild I am sure there will be plenty of feature and add-on requests Praxis!! You are certainly raising the bar on this one from the screenshot looks. Keep going at it and thank you!
It is posible for You to write that DLLs.
It is only one of my crazy ideas. But posible to do in Gear.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
I just noticed from the recent screen shot that "File" an "Plugins" are on the left and "Setup" and "About" are on the right. I like how that reduces clutter on the menu bar even though this is against the usual interfaces I have seen.
So can multiple library locations be specified? Or can library items be grouped into Parallax library and My Library, etc?
Will it be possible to dock a tab at the side? For instance a terminal window docked just below the Project/File pane? This way the data during debug could be displayed on the same screen as the code while searching and fixing.
My design philosophy for software goes along the lines of keeping it visual, and point and click.
With that being said there is actually no need for menus at all, but we can't break tradition completely.
To best explain library grouping etc let me explain the paradigm of a Developer Studio "project" as series of steps;
1. New Project, this brings up the project dialog.
2. The name & type of project is defined as well as optional project information.
3. The location of the project is also defined and a project folder will be created using the name of the project.
4. Xtal, PLL and XinFreq can also be entered with warnings about exceeding propeller specs for wrong values (for new users).
5. Click OK and the new project is created and a new "code Document" is opened named after the project name.
6. A compiler (derived from the compiler control) is also selected
7. This new code document is also the "top level" document and it cannot be removed from the project.
8. There is an option to insert the Clock/PLL settings as spin code into the top level document automatically.
So now we have a new project, from here we select the project manager dialog.
1. We can Add or Remove new documents that are defined with the Add Document dialog (has templates).
2. We can also add existing code documents (files).
3. Selecting a document (file) adds that to the project and creates a copy in the project folder.
4. Note: Any other document open from the "File Explorer" can be added to the project.
Now libraries, the project manager allows the "path" of the libraries to be defined on a project by project basis.
So each project can have it's own unique library objects or a common object pool.
Also library objects can be copied into the project folder and become project code documents while leaving the orginal libray objects intact.
Any library objects in the defined path are displayed in the project explorer.
Included are pictures of the various dialogs.
As for debugging etc the main window allows not only code documents to be displayed but also other documents i.e.
The PropViewer Terminal document, a GEAR document and other types of debuggers that allow a debug/code split window view.
@Sapieha, I already have written a parallel port driver and have it on my to do list for something similar to that.
@Cluso99, I allowed 2 weeks for this project and the end of that will be this Sunday so all going well early next week.
hippy said...
PS : Don't forget to test with a Windows colour scheme of white text, black background. That will save me a post later
Thank you Praxis for the explanation. I have worked a little in VB so what you explained makes sense. I love what you are doing and the way it will come out.
Additional thoughts/ideas:
-Can a user create code templates so that when new documents are first opened they have the basic headers and layout? can the PLL/Freq, etc be automatically implemented in those templates?
-Under the screen for adding code, maybe there would be a way to connect to the Object Exchange and browse those files for download. I imagine this would take some cooperation with Parallax to make it all work.
PS : Don't forget to test with a Windows colour scheme of white text, black background. That will save me a post later
Hi hippy can you please explain a little more.
Not everyone uses the colour scheme which is the windows default ( as your screenshots appear to use ) which is generally black-on-white. In my case I use an inverted scheme so the background for desktop and application forms is black with text in white. For people like myself it's desirable to have the preferred colour scheme in all applications - we wouldn't have chosen it if it wasn't wanted !
It's best to use Windows system colours for all applications but a common problem is developers cannot comprehend anyone might be using a colour scheme other than they do and don't fully test, so they end up forcing a white background but leaving text as colour scheme default or forcing text colour while leaving the background as default. In both cases it can end up with the same foreground and background colour which of course makes everything 'invisible'; black-on-black or white-on-white.
Colour syntax highlighting presents particular problems because the application initial defaults may clash with a user's system colour scheme, but as long as everything is configurable that's not a problem, users who want unusual colour schemes will live with a one-off configuration setup as long as they ultimately can get what they want to use.
There is nothing more annoying than a software supplier forcing an end-user to have to change their windows colour scheme to use their software because that affects every other application also being used. It is particularly irritating because it's a failure of the software supplier to have done their job properly and shows they haven't fully thought about end user's needs nor fully tested the software with other colour schemes.
Microsoft after starting badly became particularly good about honouring what the end-user wanted colour-wise but that has gone rapidly down hill in recent years. Many others don't seem to have ever given a toss. Where some parts of an application may honour a colour scheme, or fully override what the user wants, some parts remain as unusable without changing system colour schemes. The PropTool has problems in this respect, though it's not the worse offender by far.
Successful applications have functionality and usability. If usability isn't there then functionality is an irrelevancy.
It's really just a plea to consider "accessibility" and usability, and respect whatever colour schemes an end-user may choose to use rather than forcing something upon them or making them change their own global settings to make a particular application usable.
It's a bit like requiring women to wear skirts and men to put on suits to be allowed into a supermarket. It doesn't affect everyone ( if that's their default ) but you can guarantee you'll get complaints from those who are affected. Best not to impose any such unnecessary requirements in the first place.
Comments
this is a stupid question ware may i ask you uploaded the gui as to what location you put it.
Badger
i would like to take a look at it my self to see if it would make learning easier
as i posted before are there any beta's that i can play with or something like that. I am in the middle of learning vb.net. Next step is assembler. I know borland pascal, quick basic, dos basic, and to show my age trsdos basic does anyone remember that one. Of course some c++ and such in there.
now watching you and what you are doing at this point should give all of us that dabble in programing a base line to shoot for. I envy you on your abilities in that area.
Badger
Whilst I do not (expletive) about Microsoft in general I do beleive that whenever they release a new software product I do believe that they should bundle a new hard drive (large capacity) with it[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cheers
I have one question.
Can You have one HEX Editor module in Yours IDE.
Many binary files have Clock/XTal tied to 5MHz crystal but if I run 10 else 14.318 I will edit binary to it and recalculate it to new checksum.
One binaries that I path manually that way was Fridof Forth and it is many other that pople can test if it is simply to edit.
Exemple HEX Listing.
FFFFYYXX > Clock setings = 5 000 000.
FFFFxxxx>·XTal setings. = XTal (x)
FFFFxxxx> other setings.
etc...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
Post Edited (Sapieha) : 10/5/2008 2:59:08 PM GMT
It is posible to be Beta tester?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
I'm assuming it's not, looks too professional to be free...
Any price range ?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Living on the planet Earth might be expensive but it includes a free trip around the sun every year...
Experience level:
[noparse][[/noparse] ] Let's connect the motor to pin 1, it's a 6V motor so it should be fine.
[noparse][[/noparse] ] OK, I got my resistors hooked up with the LEDs.
[noparse][[/noparse]X] I got the Motor hooked up with the H-bridge and the 555 is supplying the PWM.
[noparse][[/noparse] ] Now, if I can only program the BOE-BOT to interface with he Flux Capacitor.
[noparse][[/noparse] ] I dream in SX28 assembler...
/Bamse
Honestly - this is way cool (as my son would say!). Can't wait for its release
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.com
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offence at my writing style
i would like to see this ide my self. to see if a noobie can use it. If i can anyone can. so if you would count me in as well
Badger
Post Edited (Praxis) : 10/15/2008 7:45:45 PM GMT
It's somewhat of a dream. The ability to estimate stack size accurately depends on the compiler doing what's called a flow analysis of the program which is a complex optimization process that involves statically simulating the program to see what methods call what other methods. For simple programs (and methods) it's possible to do a much simpler process, but it's still the province of the compiler, not the IDE.
Ill go on dreaming then [noparse]:)[/noparse]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
-Alec
My our page
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto fo SunSPOT, BitScope
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
http://www.propgfx.co.uk/forum/·home of the PropGFX Lite
·
I'm really looking forward to trying this. One potential bug ... Looking at your first screenshot; the status bar says "Ln 3 Col 82"; that doesn't seem to match where the cursor appears to be in the source code.
http://forums.parallax.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=0
That's a case of can't see the wood because of the trees[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Post Edited (Praxis) : 10/9/2008 2:26:18 AM GMT
To all of you who have posted questions, comments and offers to test please forgive my lack of replies as I have been busy trying to wrap up this project.
When time allows in the next few days I will post back.
I have posted here a screen shot of the latest build.
Post Edited (Praxis) : 10/15/2008 7:46:07 PM GMT
PS : Don't forget to test with a Windows colour scheme of white text, black background. That will save me a post later
Yeah, once it gets in the wild I am sure there will be plenty of feature and add-on requests Praxis!! You are certainly raising the bar on this one from the screenshot looks. Keep going at it and thank you!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto fo SunSPOT, BitScope
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
Post Edited (Praxis) : 10/15/2008 7:46:24 PM GMT
Look on this thread.
http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=294732&p=2
It is posible for You to write that DLLs.
It is only one of my crazy ideas. But posible to do in Gear.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
So can multiple library locations be specified? Or can library items be grouped into Parallax library and My Library, etc?
Will it be possible to dock a tab at the side? For instance a terminal window docked just below the Project/File pane? This way the data during debug could be displayed on the same screen as the code while searching and fixing.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto fo SunSPOT, BitScope
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
My design philosophy for software goes along the lines of keeping it visual, and point and click.
With that being said there is actually no need for menus at all, but we can't break tradition completely.
To best explain library grouping etc let me explain the paradigm of a Developer Studio "project" as series of steps;
1. New Project, this brings up the project dialog.
2. The name & type of project is defined as well as optional project information.
3. The location of the project is also defined and a project folder will be created using the name of the project.
4. Xtal, PLL and XinFreq can also be entered with warnings about exceeding propeller specs for wrong values (for new users).
5. Click OK and the new project is created and a new "code Document" is opened named after the project name.
6. A compiler (derived from the compiler control) is also selected
7. This new code document is also the "top level" document and it cannot be removed from the project.
8. There is an option to insert the Clock/PLL settings as spin code into the top level document automatically.
So now we have a new project, from here we select the project manager dialog.
1. We can Add or Remove new documents that are defined with the Add Document dialog (has templates).
2. We can also add existing code documents (files).
3. Selecting a document (file) adds that to the project and creates a copy in the project folder.
4. Note: Any other document open from the "File Explorer" can be added to the project.
Now libraries, the project manager allows the "path" of the libraries to be defined on a project by project basis.
So each project can have it's own unique library objects or a common object pool.
Also library objects can be copied into the project folder and become project code documents while leaving the orginal libray objects intact.
Any library objects in the defined path are displayed in the project explorer.
Included are pictures of the various dialogs.
As for debugging etc the main window allows not only code documents to be displayed but also other documents i.e.
The PropViewer Terminal document, a GEAR document and other types of debuggers that allow a debug/code split window view.
@Sapieha, I already have written a parallel port driver and have it on my to do list for something similar to that.
@Cluso99, I allowed 2 weeks for this project and the end of that will be this Sunday so all going well early next week.
Hi hippy can you please explain a little more.
Cheers
Post Edited (Praxis) : 10/15/2008 7:46:49 PM GMT
Additional thoughts/ideas:
-Can a user create code templates so that when new documents are first opened they have the basic headers and layout? can the PLL/Freq, etc be automatically implemented in those templates?
-Under the screen for adding code, maybe there would be a way to connect to the Object Exchange and browse those files for download. I imagine this would take some cooperation with Parallax to make it all work.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto fo SunSPOT, BitScope
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
Not everyone uses the colour scheme which is the windows default ( as your screenshots appear to use ) which is generally black-on-white. In my case I use an inverted scheme so the background for desktop and application forms is black with text in white. For people like myself it's desirable to have the preferred colour scheme in all applications - we wouldn't have chosen it if it wasn't wanted !
It's best to use Windows system colours for all applications but a common problem is developers cannot comprehend anyone might be using a colour scheme other than they do and don't fully test, so they end up forcing a white background but leaving text as colour scheme default or forcing text colour while leaving the background as default. In both cases it can end up with the same foreground and background colour which of course makes everything 'invisible'; black-on-black or white-on-white.
Colour syntax highlighting presents particular problems because the application initial defaults may clash with a user's system colour scheme, but as long as everything is configurable that's not a problem, users who want unusual colour schemes will live with a one-off configuration setup as long as they ultimately can get what they want to use.
There is nothing more annoying than a software supplier forcing an end-user to have to change their windows colour scheme to use their software because that affects every other application also being used. It is particularly irritating because it's a failure of the software supplier to have done their job properly and shows they haven't fully thought about end user's needs nor fully tested the software with other colour schemes.
Microsoft after starting badly became particularly good about honouring what the end-user wanted colour-wise but that has gone rapidly down hill in recent years. Many others don't seem to have ever given a toss. Where some parts of an application may honour a colour scheme, or fully override what the user wants, some parts remain as unusable without changing system colour schemes. The PropTool has problems in this respect, though it's not the worse offender by far.
Successful applications have functionality and usability. If usability isn't there then functionality is an irrelevancy.
It's really just a plea to consider "accessibility" and usability, and respect whatever colour schemes an end-user may choose to use rather than forcing something upon them or making them change their own global settings to make a particular application usable.
It's a bit like requiring women to wear skirts and men to put on suits to be allowed into a supermarket. It doesn't affect everyone ( if that's their default ) but you can guarantee you'll get complaints from those who are affected. Best not to impose any such unnecessary requirements in the first place.