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Another prop industrial App — Parallax Forums

Another prop industrial App

QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
edited 2010-06-18 16:27 in Propeller 1
A prop controlling a custom rotary platen and custom hydraulic ejector on an injection moulding machine ..
low res..sorry .



vid .. www.igniteautomation.com/video/im.avi



JT

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 12/29/2008 3:03:22 PM GMT
prop.jpg 264.6K
«13

Comments

  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,040
    edited 2008-02-24 11:07
    Nice work John,

    How reliable do you find the Propeller to be in an industrial environment?
    I was considering it for use in some projects but I am reluctant for using it in critical applications.
    I guess it's more a case of me gaining some comfort in knowing that is has already been used like this successfully.

    I would be interested in how other forum memebers have used the Prop in an industrial environments.

    So, come on fellow Propeller users is your Propeller used for business or pleasure (or both) ????

    Regards,

    Coley

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 2/2/2009 11:44:52 PM GMT
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-02-24 11:17
    Coley,
    It is A1 - I have used it in quite a few Industrial apps ... reaction to my first one started -
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=630275... I have had no issues and find it very robust .. Every thing gets a 'Prop' these days ! I simply couldn't recommend it highly enough ..so go ahead by all means .. you will not be sorry..

    Regards,
    John

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,040
    edited 2008-02-24 11:27
    Thanks John, I must have missed that thread, it was an interesting read.

    I know from our tests with PropGFX Lite, with all the cogs running flat out a 96MHz, the Prop got a little warm but certainly nothing to worry about and that gives me a little comfort, but, out there in the real world is another matter and you can never be really sure what other extraneous influences there will be and how they will affect the Prop.

    In what sort of environments have you used the Prop?

    Regards,

    Coley

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 2/2/2009 11:44:59 PM GMT
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-02-24 11:35
    Coley,
    Props buried in various 3phase panels with inductive load switching .. I use LC suppression on outputs .. all I/O's have optoisolalators .. various bespoke machines and PLC replacement apps .. no failures ..

    Regards,
    John

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2008-02-24 13:14
    Wow John, almost looks like 80's technology with all the through-hole and 40-pin dip! smile.gif Wish we had the prop back then though.

    I second your statement that the prop is A1 in industrial applications. I have done so many designs I have almost lost count already but they have proven themselves in all these applications. Like you everything gets a prop now, even those projects where a common microcontroller would work I find it easier and not much more expensive to use a prop. In fact there are even cost savings because the prop can eliminate those special interfaces. Also, I haven't had one failure yet though I am known to be brutal with prototypes, they just keep running.

    Thinking back on previous designs I did before the prop I can see where it would have simplified the design. In fact, there are some older designs that need revamping and guess what will be under the bonnet this time?

    There are many times though where I could do with more memory, more cogs, more pins, and more speed. What caught me recently was the slow speed of some of my main loops which were coded in Spin. Measuring the timings of these loops on the scope surprised me a little as I found some fairly simple statements taking 100's of microseconds. In conventional processors I could always code some section into assembler but this is not possible with the prop. I know, I know, just dedicate a cog, but there's none left sometimes. A compiler listing would sure be helpful although the Spin environment does allow me to make changes and test these quickly.

    One particularly good reason for using props in critical applications is the segregated and deterministic operation of the device (assuming you have enough cogs). In conventional micros you would run interrupts and tasks to accomplish the job on a single core but that made editing and debugging and thus quality assurance that much more difficult. I love it when you can leave a cog to run code that you know will always run regardless of the demands placed on other concurrent processes.

    *Peter*
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-02-24 14:07
    Peter Jakacki said...
    One particularly good reason for using props in critical applications is the segregated and deterministic operation of the device (assuming you have enough cogs). In conventional micros you would run interrupts and tasks to accomplish the job on a single core but that made editing and debugging and thus quality assurance that much more difficult. I love it when you can leave a cog to run code that you know will always run regardless of the demands placed on other concurrent processes.

    Peter,
    Nicely said - covers it in a nutshell .. I second that ..it just seems easier now to use a Prop !

    Regards,
    John

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,507
    edited 2008-02-24 15:08
    Awesome!

    The propeller is just great for this sort of stuff. I built my own automated microtome using the propeller, so easy compared to a PC or other controllers, can show details but only after some publications.

    Graham
  • crgwbrcrgwbr Posts: 614
    edited 2008-02-25 00:31
    QuattroRS4 said...
    Peter Jakacki said...
    One particularly good reason for using props in critical applications is the segregated and deterministic operation of the device (assuming you have enough cogs). In conventional micros you would run interrupts and tasks to accomplish the job on a single core but that made editing and debugging and thus quality assurance that much more difficult. I love it when you can leave a cog to run code that you know will always run regardless of the demands placed on other concurrent processes.

    Peter,
    Nicely said - covers it in a nutshell .. I second that ..it just seems easier now to use a Prop !

    Regards,
    John

    I'd third that. I've designed a couple industrial apps using the propeller, several as one-of-a-kind machines, and several as production units (including the upcoming ProPLC). Admittedly, some of the prototypes were badly prone to feedback and EM interference, but the Prop hasn't failed yet. Though, the 40-pin DIP does make it look rather dated.

    Regards,
    Craig

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    My system: 1.6 GHz AMD Turion64 X2, 4GB DDR2, 256MB ATI Radeon Graphics card, 15.4" Widescreen HD Screen

    I have a duel boot of Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista. Vista, because it came with the PC, Ubuntu because I like software that works.

    "Failure is not an option -- it comes bundled with Windows."

    Use The Best...
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  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-03-08 14:57
    didn't deserve a new thread ...but yet another ....

    Rgds,
    JT

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  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-04-10 14:21
    and another one..this one is an·IBC Tank Wash machine ..

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'

    Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 4/10/2008 6:25:18 PM GMT
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  • BTXBTX Posts: 674
    edited 2008-04-10 14:58
    Hey John.

    Excellent Job !!!!!!!!!! very nice machines !!!
    CONGRATULATIONS !

    The VGA screen is controlled by proppeller too, or you have a PC, with a dedicated software into the machine ?
    Looks great.

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    Regards.

    Alberto.
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-04-10 15:03
    Alberto,

    Thanks ..

    No PC ... all Propeller .. Some using the 1024x768 tile driver others 1280x1024 tile driver .. Parameter and compensation info stored on aux. eeproms and/or SD Card .. connection to Shop floor data collection systems etc ..

    Rgds,
    John

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2008-04-11 12:19
    How many Propellers do you have in these machines? One of the pictures above look like a stack of cards with Props, true? If you are using multiple Props, how are you handeling communication among them?

    I am looking for a good industrial application to use the Propeller on. Hmmm....

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    Timothy D. Swieter

    www.brilldea.com·- check out the uOLED-IOC, an I/O expansion for the uOLED-96-PROP
    www.tdswieter.com
    One little spark of imagination is all it takes for an idea to explode
  • Fred HawkinsFred Hawkins Posts: 997
    edited 2008-04-11 12:31
    This is the sort of thing that ought to be featured at the Embedded show.
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-04-11 13:14
    @Timothy,
    I have various propeller based custom machines ..and·numerous·prop based control upgrades - ·most use only one propeller .. However the one you mentioned has 3 propellers - mainly due to the fact that that machine is actually 3 machines rolled into one .. Setup as one master 2 slaves with custom serial based protocol .. which works quite well .. all receive however if the first identifying character does not match the specific controller - it is ignored. This method was chosen to match other aspects of the process .. it did not require clk sync etc .. However I am currently working on a multi -prop controller where that will be key .. I will update on progress.

    Rgds,
    John Twomey

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2008-04-14 03:16
    John - for your applications, did you design a generic PCB that you apply to each project or do design a PCB per project? Are you open to sharing schematic or information about your design and what you did to make it robust for the industrial environment?

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    Timothy D. Swieter

    www.brilldea.com·- check out the uOLED-IOC, an I/O expansion for the uOLED-96-PROP
    www.tdswieter.com
    One little spark of imagination is all it takes for an idea to explode
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-04-14 08:30
    Timothy,
    I started with a design specifically for one machine - but quickly had applications which this board suited - Since then I have made 4 other propeller based designs - these were machine specific. In terms of Robustness I use LC (inductor/Cap) suppression on all I/O lines - optoisolators, photovoltaic ssr's on outputs .. good ground planing and quality components ... no real innovation there .. the prop just works and is extremely well suited to industrial applications. Initial customer request was for socketed DIP components - this is no longer a requirement so latest versions are Q44 based.

    I have since made a dedicated 'Processor Board' with Xport module (reduces the overhead for prop based IPstack) RS232,SDCard,Realtime clock VGA,KB and mouse - with IDC headers to dedicated multiple I/O boards various variants of I2C based I/O boards .. some all Output ...some all input ... some 50/50. Analog module still in dev.

    So the 'Processor' is common - depending on the application the I/O p.c.b's are chosen. If you want specs for individual components used by all means ..

    As previously mentioned I am looking at multiple sync'd props ... I must talk to Alberto (aka BTX) to reduce the trials (not lazy just busy!) - as he used multiple props in his application ... I know it came up for discussion initially but I can't seem to remember what route he chose.



    Regards,
    John Twomey

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-07-01 16:25
    Yet another during build ...

    Rgds,
    ······ John


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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
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  • simonlsimonl Posts: 866
    edited 2008-07-01 18:32
    Hehe Quatro! One in the eye to those who say the beanie will stop the Prop' from getting into industry - way to go smile.gif (Geez I wish I had your job!).

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    Cheers,

    Simon
    www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
    You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
    BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style smile.gif
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 17,711
    edited 2008-07-02 02:17
    Great stuff !!! Agreed, the beanie won't stop progress !!!
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-07-03 02:22
    @Simonl ... Your comments are much appreciated as the prop is (by those that know) and will be (by those that don't know yet)


    Kind Regards,
    John Twomey

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-07-03 02:23
    @Cluso99 - Try stop it !!

    Rgds,
    JT

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-07-08 12:58
    and another one ...

    Can't give anymore details other than it controlls 3ph motors,hydraulics and pneumatics ..

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
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  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2008-10-14 19:44
    again another - Control of coal Hoppers and multiple conveyor systems .... during test (hence visible loops tidied now !) Also uses Parallax Serial LCD 4x20 ..

    EDIT: Ran out of Beanie Cap Stickers !



    Regards,
    John

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'

    Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

    Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 10/14/2008 7:54:05 PM GMT
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  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2008-10-14 23:44
    Excellent. You have some serios real world installations happening with your Prop PLC.

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    Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.

    www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto fo SunSPOT, BitScope
    www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
    www.tdswieter.com
  • evanhevanh Posts: 10,918
    edited 2008-10-15 11:48
    John: What package do you use for wiring diagrams? And does it have the IEC symbol set?
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 17,711
    edited 2008-10-15 12:07
    Great news. Just love to see the Prop in real life use. smile.gif

    I built a lot of controllers in years gone by. Would have loved a prop back then. Now it is just a hobby.
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2009-02-02 13:52
    .... and another

    Upgrade of a machine - Replacing previous bloated control with propeller, new .NET'08 application and Custom Propeller Board.

    During.jpg - shows an almost empty control Panel during build- with custom Prop Board.
    Replaces.jpg -·shows an Image of what the PropBoard replaces.
    Frontend - shows .NET GUI which has coms to Propeller control board

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'

    Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

    Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/2/2009 1:57:20 PM GMT
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  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2009-02-02 14:12
    Again, sweet. I have used plenty of AB SLC and seen plenty more in the field I am in. However I don't think I can convince a rollercoaster manufacturer to switch to a Propeller based PLC just yet for the safety system! I would certainly use it in some my other machine applications though because of cost. Keep up the great work John!

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    Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
    www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC, eProto for SunSPOT, BitScope
    www.tdswieter.com
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 908
    edited 2009-02-02 14:24
    Thanks Timothy - After a number of resounding successes with initial Projects my customers are more than convinced when it comes to P8x32A based solutions . While it is great to be working with the Prop on a daily basis - I rarely get a chance to 'play' with it - I have loads of personal projects that I want to do - but just don't seem to get the time ..

    Rgds,
    John Twomey

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    'Necessity is the mother of invention'

    Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

    Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/2/2009 2:33:59 PM GMT
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