Ken,
Been working 4-6 hours a night, my busy season is just around the corner. I won't get much done then. I have some of the forum guys working programming and misc other stuff so that I can just keep machining. Ken, my hat's off to you. A person does not see the work involved in building a bigger robot until you build one yourself :-· )
I have the Bobart if you don't already have it loaded. It does a decent job of converting an image to tool path. If the orginal art is large and has sharp edges, you might get away with it. Let me know and I'll take a swing at it.
All the beanies I see on the site are too small to consider.
Here is the best I can do in Illustrator. I uploaded the AI file that contains the Propeller logo, if anyone knows how to do a better job on the rotor feel free.
Sorry Biran, it looks like it was trying to store a bitmap of the prop artwork I was using underneath it for a template. As you have found, you may be able to just choose ignore when I starts looking for the bitmap. I can correct it or upload the image if you still need it.
Really nice work on the wagon! I wish I had the time to do a robot, but as you have found, it is 10 times more to it than meets the eye. Just working up the solid renderng object can be hours and hours. There is nothing like seeing a part in 3D, then seeing it's form come to life underneat a tool. Anyone that has never experimented with a CNC machine, I think Brian and TOm may confirm this, it is a whole lot of fun.
I used several lines/arcs stuck together on the rotor, check to make sure they are end to end, the accuracy was marginal in Illustrator, in the cadcam it would be more noticable.
I cleaned it up a little more , had some overlapping arcs. It should cut really nice now . Thanks for whipping that together . I made the hat a hair smaller so that it fits with the ping·))) better.
What are you planning on using for a speed control and what other peripherals will the dragon wagon use?
Ken,
Most of the cheap 40, 49 & 53cc pocket bikes use a direct drive generator/starter motor that is bolted to the crankshaft. Also there was a 73' Kawasaki 175cc (I am pretty sure it was the·F3,·if not it was the F7) and a Yamaha DT125 cc that had direct drive generators that doubled as a starter motor. Each manufacture only used that style starter for 1 maybe 2 years and then never used it again. ·
Heres a list of control's and sensor's . I'll be adding to it as I have specs.
To get moving:
- 1 HB 25 to control speed and direction ( really 2 but with a jumper)
- 1 HB 25 to control linear actuator for steering ( this has a 3 wire pot to read position also , I'll get the readings from this and post them)
- 3 ping sensors front , one facing forward , one facing 45 deg. left and one facing 45 deg. right
-3 ping sensors rear , same config as front
- IR sensor and receiver on both sides in pinch zone
- 1 servo to control gas engine speed ,also need a way to read voltage to adjust engine
More added features for the future:
-compass and/or gps
-xbee
-cmu camera
Something Sponsored? And an All Parallax / only Parallax, Annual event with a bit more time involved (then 2 weeks) and in the "off season" for clubs, schools (stamps in·class) students·not competing with in FIRST.
Keep the current theme of an "Outdoors" petrol powered bot (or at least make it the "Big Bang" for the end of the competition) (Gotta have a Main Event) and·have some other indoors competition. Classes for SX’ers, Stampers and Propeller heads. Nothing like racing to accelerate the learning curve and produce advancements.
People could converge on Tracy or Sacramento or maybe even Reno or Tahoe to race or compete on an annual basis. Parallax Dealers could get discounted display space that they might not have been able to afford previously within a regular convention·center event.
I had an idea that the FIRST clubs and everybody else could easily do:
A race or an endurance race around a predetermined course layout. So testing could be·completed before·teams get to the contest.
(1). The predetermined course would only be a qualifier to the main event. First they must be able to show that their bots can maneuver thru the course (maybe just an oval) autonomously. If there is enough entries that complete the first trial a lap timer may be necessary to determine who qualifies.
(2). The main event would challenge the teams programming skills and their vehicles design by changing the course layout (perhaps just a dog-leg or an "S" turn down the straight away) with no advanced warning. Other than it would be part of the rules of the competition. The fastest lap time would be the winner!.
(3). In order to keep costs down, the Bots could be a used RC car, converted to an autonomous bot. The least expensive class could require only the use of "Ping" sensors and maybe a G-Force sensor. Some sort of limitation of expenses, so that the emphasis is in problem solving and programming.
(4).·Classes could grow in size·of the bots, complexity and their power plants. Perhaps even track·size and layout.
The single worst part of racing is to travel to an event, participate in only one race·and not make the cut. So I would propose that when you enter the time trial race, you are automatically entered into the "Endurance"·Race also.
(1). There would be no track change, so the original track called out by the rules to qualify on, would be the track.
(2). There needs to be a twist and some action. So the endurance race would involve·multiple entrants on the track at the same time (groups of 5 to 10 bots at a time)
(3). R/C of the throttle and maybe the brakes would be allowed.
(4). Collision avoidance, steering and staying within the boundaries of the track must be autonomous.
(5). In the case of an accident,·all the bots would be allowed to stop or proceed at a predetermined
meters/sec speed and maintain their "Collision avoidance", In order to allow clean-up. The bot that caused the accident could incur a time or lap penalty. If it happens twice obviously it's "Collision avoidance" is inadequate and it would be disqualified (poss)
As a general rule, All units used would be in SI units (to keep a global standard)
**Additional Note** There is going to be a time that the current style of bot activities are going to be "old hat" and industy and military are going to want those tasks done quicker
Post Edited (Capt. Quirk) : 4/10/2007 3:20:19 AM GMT
Brand New 12v dc motors 15 A 5000 R. P. M. 5 3/8" from face plate to face plate 3 1/16" Dia. 3/8" Shaft Shaft 1 9/16"·. Longlead wire 14 awg. Each heavy duty motor weigh just over 5lbs.··0.16 HP··· Ball bear each end.· High torque.·Kick up to 24 volts and get 7500 rpm. ·RC, Motor scooters, wind generator, kart, small winch, go-kart, golf cart, pump,·or use for your own idea. motors are 15 amp
STEERING: Check attachment
·Also I have a compass and a accelerometer . I had to build a·enclosure around·the mill , my wife didn't see the humor in metal chips on all the carpets . Go figure :-)
- 1 HB 25 to control linear actuator for steering ( this has a 3 wire pot to read position also , I'll get the readings from this and post them)
Yea, I am going to need to know how many K ohms that potentiometer is. Also we need an·MAX1270 ADC·for·4 + ·chanels that I am aware of,· steering , throtle position, DC output and possibly the for the IR's. It would be handy if we both had the same LCD's too. Which BS-2 IC's do you have and how many? I am estimating aprox. 19 I/O·pins, to do this it may require a p-40 or 2 BS2-xx's.
On the HB-25's, The way I read the spec sheets, refresh of the pulse-width isn't really·necessary unless you are increasing or decreasing speed?
With at least 7 peripherials requiring 20 m/s to refresh, is there any reference material on Pbasic command execution times vrs the BS2-xx line of processors?
Post Edited (Capt. Quirk) : 4/10/2007 5:41:06 AM GMT
Bill,
steering readings are 9970 ohm's extended and 3570 ohm's retracted . I have a couple of stamp OEM chips and a BS2pe . If you want to go to a 40 pin that will be fine, and·that will·keep it compatable with a sx48 and the propeller. Also I have a #27977 parallax display.·
Does the SPAL Linear Actuator automatically stop when it reaches the end of its travel (extended/retracted)? I'm thinking about ordering this one from www.surpluscenter.com:
I was working on the steering on my Hybrid Power Wheels R/C Car this weekend, and I had a OOPS with the steering mechanism I built. Was operating it without the limit switched installed, had it at is right limit and went to reverse it, but went the wrong way (user error). Needless to say the drill motor turning a 5/16" 18 TPI rod destroyed the entire steering mechanism! Surprising how I should not ignore that little voice in my head, it told me to not mess with it until I had the limit switches installed, DOH........
Yes it has limit switches on both ends , really a nice setup.Look at·the mounting brackets too,·they are·a clean and cheap way to mount it.·The surplus center is my second favorite website :-)
I owe you a case of beer, hope you like Keystones! ·
Thanks for jogging my memory on the SPAL Linear Actuators. Did the 10 minute mockup with some MDF and some dry wall screws and it works like a charm!
I was brave enough to remove the end cap on the SPAL Linear Actuator and it looks to have a normal pot installed. From what you posted about the resistance extended/retracted it appears to have a 10k pot installed, not sure if the pot is a single turn or a 10 turn, will need to disassemble it this weekend and determine that. If I can replace the existing pot with a 5K then I can use Beau's 'big servo' mod found here:
Cool !
Keystone , they still make that stuff ? Looks like your bot·is·going to pretty nice . didn't get much done on mine this week , I'm installing new motors and controller on my mill.
Hey lostcauz did you receive that super_bot frame I sent you yet ?
Hey Brian, yeah I received the frame on Tuesday. I've been in court this week and I apologize for not letting you know it arrived sooner. It's a very nice frame and I appreciate it very much. Now I guess I have no reason to procrastinate actually learning how to make some of this stuff work... [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Just in case anybody is·wondering if I'm still around. I have been adding new motors, controller and a 4th axis to my mill; also I am building a tumbler to get that professional look on my parts. I am shooting for September as a maiden voyage for the dragon wagon. As soon as I finish my upgrades to the shop I'll start posting pictures of parts again :-)
· The actuator you plan to use for steering only moves at .5 inches a second is that going to be fast enough for you? If not I might have a simple hydralic idea for you that will fit the same place as the actuator.
Comments
Been working 4-6 hours a night, my busy season is just around the corner. I won't get much done then. I have some of the forum guys working programming and misc other stuff so that I can just keep machining. Ken, my hat's off to you. A person does not see the work involved in building a bigger robot until you build one yourself :-· )
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/7/2007 4:59:04 PM GMT
All the beanies I see on the site are too small to consider.
Post Edited (TChapman) : 4/7/2007 4:55:18 AM GMT
I'm trying to make this a forum project . If you could make up a propeller dxf file ,give it a shot and let me know how it goes
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (TChapman) : 4/7/2007 5:03:21 AM GMT
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (TChapman) : 4/7/2007 6:17:56 AM GMT
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Here's some test fitting pictures.
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/7/2007 4:51:29 PM GMT
Really nice work on the wagon! I wish I had the time to do a robot, but as you have found, it is 10 times more to it than meets the eye. Just working up the solid renderng object can be hours and hours. There is nothing like seeing a part in 3D, then seeing it's form come to life underneat a tool. Anyone that has never experimented with a CNC machine, I think Brian and TOm may confirm this, it is a whole lot of fun.
Hey you really hooked up that DXF!
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/10/2007 12:37:20 PM GMT
I used several lines/arcs stuck together on the rotor, check to make sure they are end to end, the accuracy was marginal in Illustrator, in the cadcam it would be more noticable.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/7/2007 10:50:30 PM GMT
What are you planning on using for a speed control and what other peripherals will the dragon wagon use?
Ken,
Most of the cheap 40, 49 & 53cc pocket bikes use a direct drive generator/starter motor that is bolted to the crankshaft. Also there was a 73' Kawasaki 175cc (I am pretty sure it was the·F3,·if not it was the F7) and a Yamaha DT125 cc that had direct drive generators that doubled as a starter motor. Each manufacture only used that style starter for 1 maybe 2 years and then never used it again.
·
To get moving:
- 1 HB 25 to control speed and direction ( really 2 but with a jumper)
- 1 HB 25 to control linear actuator for steering ( this has a 3 wire pot to read position also , I'll get the readings from this and post them)
- 3 ping sensors front , one facing forward , one facing 45 deg. left and one facing 45 deg. right
-3 ping sensors rear , same config as front
- IR sensor and receiver on both sides in pinch zone
- 1 servo to control gas engine speed ,also need a way to read voltage to adjust engine
More added features for the future:
-compass and/or gps
-xbee
-cmu camera
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/8/2007 1:47:56 PM GMT
Also information on your steering control motor.
If I am going to do this I want to predict the results or try to simulate them.
Bill
I had an idea that the FIRST clubs and everybody else could easily do:
A race or an endurance race around a predetermined course layout. So testing could be·completed before·teams get to the contest.
(1). The predetermined course would only be a qualifier to the main event. First they must be able to show that their bots can maneuver thru the course (maybe just an oval) autonomously. If there is enough entries that complete the first trial a lap timer may be necessary to determine who qualifies.
(2). The main event would challenge the teams programming skills and their vehicles design by changing the course layout (perhaps just a dog-leg or an "S" turn down the straight away) with no advanced warning. Other than it would be part of the rules of the competition. The fastest lap time would be the winner!.
(3). In order to keep costs down, the Bots could be a used RC car, converted to an autonomous bot. The least expensive class could require only the use of "Ping" sensors and maybe a G-Force sensor. Some sort of limitation of expenses, so that the emphasis is in problem solving and programming.
(4).·Classes could grow in size·of the bots, complexity and their power plants. Perhaps even track·size and layout.
The single worst part of racing is to travel to an event, participate in only one race·and not make the cut. So I would propose that when you enter the time trial race, you are automatically entered into the "Endurance"·Race also.
(1). There would be no track change, so the original track called out by the rules to qualify on, would be the track.
(2). There needs to be a twist and some action. So the endurance race would involve·multiple entrants on the track at the same time (groups of 5 to 10 bots at a time)
(3). R/C of the throttle and maybe the brakes would be allowed.
(4). Collision avoidance, steering and staying within the boundaries of the track must be autonomous.
(5). In the case of an accident,·all the bots would be allowed to stop or proceed at a predetermined
meters/sec speed and maintain their "Collision avoidance", In order to allow clean-up. The bot that caused the accident could incur a time or lap penalty. If it happens twice obviously it's "Collision avoidance" is inadequate and it would be disqualified (poss)
As a general rule, All units used would be in SI units (to keep a global standard)
**Additional Note** There is going to be a time that the current style of bot activities are going to be "old hat" and industy and military are going to want those tasks done quicker
Post Edited (Capt. Quirk) : 4/10/2007 3:20:19 AM GMT
This bot is looking really good. Keep up the great work.
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Whit+
Bill
Bill,
·Heres what I have for info.
MOTORS:
Brand New 12v dc motors 15 A 5000 R. P. M. 5 3/8" from face plate to face plate 3 1/16" Dia. 3/8" Shaft Shaft 1 9/16"·. Longlead wire 14 awg. Each heavy duty motor weigh just over 5lbs.· ·0.16 HP··· Ball bear each end.· High torque.·Kick up to 24 volts and get 7500 rpm. ·RC, Motor scooters, wind generator, kart, small winch, go-kart, golf cart, pump,·or use for your own idea. motors are 15 amp
STEERING: Check attachment
·Also I have a compass and a accelerometer . I had to build a·enclosure around·the mill , my wife didn't see the humor in metal chips on all the carpets . Go figure :-)
·
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/10/2007 11:46:45 AM GMT
On the HB-25's, The way I read the spec sheets, refresh of the pulse-width isn't really·necessary unless you are increasing or decreasing speed?
With at least 7 peripherials requiring 20 m/s to refresh, is there any reference material on Pbasic command execution times vrs the BS2-xx line of processors?
Post Edited (Capt. Quirk) : 4/10/2007 5:41:06 AM GMT
steering readings are 9970 ohm's extended and 3570 ohm's retracted . I have a couple of stamp OEM chips and a BS2pe . If you want to go to a 40 pin that will be fine, and·that will·keep it compatable with a sx48 and the propeller. Also I have a #27977 parallax display.·
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/10/2007 4:37:02 PM GMT
Does the SPAL Linear Actuator automatically stop when it reaches the end of its travel (extended/retracted)? I'm thinking about ordering this one from www.surpluscenter.com:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007041007263666&item=5-1577-2&catname=electric
I was working on the steering on my Hybrid Power Wheels R/C Car this weekend, and I had a OOPS with the steering mechanism I built. Was operating it without the limit switched installed, had it at is right limit and went to reverse it, but went the wrong way (user error). Needless to say the drill motor turning a 5/16" 18 TPI rod destroyed the entire steering mechanism! Surprising how I should not ignore that little voice in my head, it told me to not mess with it until I had the limit switches installed, DOH........
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Mike
Yes it has limit switches on both ends , really a nice setup.Look at·the mounting brackets too,·they are·a clean and cheap way to mount it.·The surplus center is my second favorite website :-)
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/10/2007 12:45:33 PM GMT
I probably should have ordered it weeks ago, would have been a lot quicker/easier then the steering mechanism I built and then destroyed!
Just ordered it, and got two of the mounting brackets also.
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Mike
Post Edited (Mike Cook) : 4/10/2007 12:47:32 PM GMT
I owe you a case of beer, hope you like Keystones!
Thanks for jogging my memory on the SPAL Linear Actuators. Did the 10 minute mockup with some MDF and some dry wall screws and it works like a charm!
I was brave enough to remove the end cap on the SPAL Linear Actuator and it looks to have a normal pot installed. From what you posted about the resistance extended/retracted it appears to have a 10k pot installed, not sure if the pot is a single turn or a 10 turn, will need to disassemble it this weekend and determine that. If I can replace the existing pot with a 5K then I can use Beau's 'big servo' mod found here:
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=525689
to interface this to standard R/C gear.
Thanks Again,
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Mike
Post Edited (Mike Cook) : 4/15/2007 11:25:02 AM GMT
Keystone , they still make that stuff ? Looks like your bot·is·going to pretty nice . didn't get much done on mine this week , I'm installing new motors and controller on my mill.
Hey lostcauz did you receive that super_bot frame I sent you yet ?
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/14/2007 1:05:17 AM GMT
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/17/2007 4:33:14 PM GMT
· The actuator you plan to use for steering only moves at .5 inches a second is that going to be fast enough for you? If not I might have a simple hydralic idea for you that will fit the same place as the actuator.
I'm allway's open to new idea's , whats your plan for steering with hydralic's ?
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Thank's Brian
www.truckwiz.com
·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein
http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)