Heater. wrote: »
Do what? What am I looking at there? Is that the biggest resistor I have ever seen?
T Chap wrote: »
Lack of report probably means there is no idea when it is coming. This is the ground hogs day movie. I would pull the subsection for the P2 if it were me and get rid of this stigma that is not a good thing for Parallax. People stumbling over here seeing this discussion as their first impression of the company is not good.
evanh wrote: »
The individual SDRAM chips, from SDR through DDR3, used in PCs over the years are 8 bits wide typically. So, no problem having a smaller data bus size just by using a single RAM chip.
David Betz wrote: »
I'm not sure Parallax ever promised a report at the end of spring. That was just a date generated by a forum member based on various other statements that probably also weren't firm commitments. They may not feel that they owe us an update right now.
evanh wrote: »
I was addressing that smaller pin counts are commonly available, since that seemed to have been in question and you hadn't made it clear in your earlier post.
koehler wrote: »
Sadlly, it seems like no one at Parallax could find 30 minutes a month to get a basic status update and post it to the web for the Prop-heads.
evanh wrote: »
That seems like a Prop to RAM chip concern to me.
koehler wrote: »
... Go back last year or earlier this year, and look at all the 'Challenges' Parallax have put up, and all the man hours of work people have put in trying to make the Prop do all sorts of things. ... Parallax is an unusual company, and in many ways just comes across as the underdog you want to root for. ... Sadlly, it seems like no one at Parallax could find 30 minutes a month to get a basic status update....
koehler wrote: »
What I find rahter funny/absurd is the response that Parallax doesn't 'owe' anyone here anything.
To my mind, thats a cop-out and even, a slap at quite a number of people who are/have given Parallax quite a lot of sweat equity.
koehler wrote: »
Sadly, it seems like no one at Parallax could find 30 minutes a month to get a basic status update and post it to the web for the Prop-heads.
Or, the community here just doesn't rate that amount of effort.
JRetSapDoog wrote: »
@koehler, I find your post perfectly reasonable and respectful, with a well laid out argument. You've put into words what at least some of us are thinking. And your post is right on topic in a thread entitled "Prop-2 Release Date and Price." Far from whining, you seem to be providing an impassioned plea for Parallax to do what most of us tend to believe that they already want to do: keep us in the loop to the extent possible. Obviously, you count yourself among those who are rooting for this "underdog," as you put it. Though people will understandably make various defenses for Parallax, I feel that Parallax would only add to its standing by continuing the trend it established of keeping us informed. At any rate, I'm sure that Parallax will continue to be a company that prioritizes integrity first, maybe innovation second, and perhaps profit third (or something like that).
I think it's quite possible that a monthly or even bi-weekly report could create a kind of positive pressure to help move things along. It seems so important to stay on schedule, such that the window of opportunity is not lost. To be clear, this would entail just providing updates, without sticking around to address responses to or questions about the updates. In both Chip and Ken's last updates, I don't recall them being dragged into the forum afterwards to field a ton of questions about the updates. Why not schedule such updates so folks would know when to look? Even if there were no significant progress to report on, at least members would know the status. That seems like a reasonable request to me, just like it's reasonable to ask forum members for advice or voluntary assistance on occasion. These are just requests, not demands.
I haven't done the math, but forum activity centered around the Prop 1 seems to be on the downward side of the peak. It's still a great chip and likely will be for some time to come. But it's only natural for us to be interested in its successor, particularly when we were given the privilege of listing desirable features. But I've seen at least two posts on the forum suggesting that Parallax abandon the plans to produce new silicon, relying on FPGA versions only. That's potentially scary. But based on what Chip and Ken have shared and the progress and investment to date, I believe that there will be a P2 chip (in addition to an FPGA version). From a business standpoint, though, I do realize that things could happen to put it out of reach. If that were to happen--which I'm cautiously optimistic that it won't--one could only hope that the price of FPGA chips would fall dramatically.
Lastly, I hope that forum members can tolerate a variety of comments here. I think it's good to try to look for things in the posts of others with which one can agree before giving another viewpoint. And I hope that we can keep in mind the following instructions culled from the forum rules, "Be polite: Polite lively debate is welcome. Flaming, rude behavior, and personal insults are not productive and will not be tolerated.... Copying and quoting posts: ... Do not quote someone as a form of harassment, or to otherwise belittle the poster. ... Negative discussion of other members: Do not ridicule other members of the Parallax Discussion Forums or otherwise make them feel uncomfortable."
Unfortunately, logical thought here is only sometimes appreciated.
potatohead wrote: »
I'm sorry my posts took a bad path..
Parallax is great! It is particularly frustrating to have run P2 images... I've resolved to just let it all breathe for a while. Chip works the way he works, and that's not always a linear, structured thing. I'm quite sure this is why we aren't seeing progress. And I also see that difference as part of what made the P1 what it is. He does what he does how he does it.
If I go and judge that, I end up in a bad place. So I'm not. And I'm not because I really like Chip, and I'm confident we will once again have really fun times in the future. Times I don't want tainted by an ugly haul to get there.
I do believe Ken has some frustrations, and I also believe he's done what he can to get ready and help. We know Chip is working with some others to get this thing done and when it's done be viable for manufacturing too. I very strongly suspect that has impacted some design plans and that's taking some thought. Comes down to the process and power.
Maybe that process / power equation got changed?
Above all, I believe Chip and maybe Ken have moved to, "get to an image" mode, before anything else is said. Chip popped up a while back on USB instruction matters. So he's working. It's not like it's all just collecting dust.
As far as the community goes, I've very strong and mixed feelings about it all. Right now, we are smaller and less active --at least Parallax related active. During the P2 image time, I was both amazed and extremely frustrated over how that open process went. We all want stuff, and that played out in some beautiful ways as well as some crappy ways. That exercise generated a lot of great ideas.
While we wait on this, I personally believe some encouraging type pressure is good. But I don't believe disparaging type pressure is good, and that's where the tone of my posts came from. For all I have seen during these fun Parallax times, I know the people are great and that they really do care and they want the same things we want. And I've seen Parallax isn't just an ordinary company. It's small. Family. They all want to continue to do what they do and they want to share it with us, but only if it's meaningful to share and not doing more harm than good, because there isn't a person in the building that wants harm.
So what to do?
I really have no problem with the "say nothing right now" approach given how Chip works and all the dynamics around the task at hand. Just look at the one little bit of detail we got, and the dialog around it. So many voices clamoring for this path and that one, minimums needed, wants, needs, etc... Sometimes people go off and do a lot of work based on one of those little details. And it's all done with good intent, don't get me wrong. But, that also makes it hard to have a dialog too. A single word might trigger all sorts of stuff and as things progress, that stuff could be rendered moot, leaving bad vibes playing about too.
We are smaller and less active for bad vibes as much as we are for the needing to advance it all. And that is worth thinking about, isn't it?
Given all of that, I'm in "make sure to have fun" mode. I get less time for this stuff right now, and for me that has been a godsend. The time I do get is either for something real and I sometimes can use a P1 for that, or it's fun time, and since there is less of it, I'm wanting it to be fun time more than I would have in the past.
My one worry is time overall. Some of us have a lot of it, some of us might not. Above all, I don't care what or how Parallax does this, only that they do put their best effort and intent on minimizing required time. It's hard not knowing the amount of time. But it would be harder to know that time was extended out of hand at this stage too.
...which should explain the rest of my post connotations. I want it to happen, and positive is the very best contribution I can provide at this time.
It's been said, "Parallax owes us..." True! But we also owe one another too. Now is the time to be good humans all around. When we can do something, you can bet your arse Parallax will put it out there, and you can also bet a lot of us are there, ready to contribute too. The better we can make this time, the more potent all of that will be.
An incredible amount of time could have been saved, and/or more productively put to use by all, if they would just give regular updates