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why, the parallax products are too expensive? - Page 4 — Parallax Forums

why, the parallax products are too expensive?

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  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-02-19 02:56
    It has always been my opinion that you get what you pay for or should I say this is most often the case. I have been a customer of Parallax off and on for many years. With a clean conscience and no financial reimbursement I can honestly make the following statements:
    1. Any product that I have ever received from Parallax, has always been of the highest quality.
    2. The support for the product they offer is almost unparalleled, with the exception of Igus Inc., which is also a great company.
    3. Parallax makes every attempt to satisfy the needs of their customer base with respect to new products
    4. Parallax does the best job possible to educate the public about their product and encourage the youth of the world to learn robotics, electronics, and programming.
    5. And in my opinion, Parallax is a generous company, as far as freely giving away their products, and their unbelievable warranty policies.
    6. With regard to the public forum they offer as a service, they are almost always patient and kind to obvious idiot (which has been me on numerous occassions) :)
    I am very content with purchasing and using Parallax products, because of the unsurpassed quality and support that I receive for my hard earned dollars.

    Bruce Drummond
    Novel Solutions
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-02-19 03:32
    Heater. wrote: »
    Oh, yeah, that was also the guy who built a stereo amplifier. He then realized he could double up the power supply as a battery charger for his motorcycle batteries. A simple switch on he front panel would turn one pair of speaker terminals from audio output for a speaker into a battery charger connection.

    That was fine, ... until someone threw the switch at a party and the speaker exploded!

    Why do I never get invited to parties like that?
  • xanatosxanatos Posts: 1,120
    edited 2014-02-19 06:56
    idbruce wrote: »
    [*]The support for the product they offer is almost unparalleled, with the exception of Igus Inc., which is also a great company
    Bruce Drummond
    Novel Solutions

    So I looked them up... and I found the perfect set of end bearings for my project! Thanks.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-02-19 10:40
    So I looked them up... and I found the perfect set of end bearings for my project! Thanks.

    LOL Glad it helped. While you are poking around, take a good look at their cable chains and flex cable..... There is a lot to choose from for automation projects.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-02-19 10:44
    idbruce wrote: »
    LOL Glad it helped. While you are poking around, take a good look at their cable chains and flex cable..... There is a lot to choose from for automation projects.

    Bruce,

    Good to see you're still around.

    Jim
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-02-19 11:05
    Jim
    Good to see you're still around.

    I think you better have your eyes checked. I am almost always a square, and on rare occassions a rectangle, but under no circumstances have I ever been a round.

    :)
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2014-02-19 18:38
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    Yes, this is often the case. But people living in these countries (which most often include Brazil, China, India, Argentina and most of Latin America) are fully aware of the fact that their government will assess an import fee of 100-500% on the value of the product. And these situations become complex, and sometimes you may not even receive the product if it travels by the country's domestic postal service.

    I'd be happy to sell events a reduced-cost JTAGulator just to win him over to Parallax. . .as long as he sends Joe Grand a minor appreciation royalty via PayPal. Joe has to be paid for his work, no matter what we do.

    Ken Gracey

    He can buy the JTAGulator board from OSHPark and build it himself, for "far less" than the retail cost.

    I encourage anyone who thinks an FOSS product is "too expensive" to take this approach.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2014-02-19 19:39
    xanatos wrote: »
    So I looked them up... and I found the perfect set of end bearings for my project! Thanks.


    OT. I have plans to use IGIS round cable chains for a Doc Oct costume after one day a IGIS rep was at work during lunch. .


    Parallax has a Very good standing for ethics . There respect to the end user is un-paralleled by any other Micon manufacture
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2014-02-19 19:40
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    I still refuse to have our business practices dictated by abusers, and although we encounter them from time to time they shall never dictate our policies.

    At the rate im going, im more than making up for the abusers. I've killed over 50 props in a single week timeframe, didn't break a sweat. ... but i think I shed a tear possibly...

    Nor did I or would I attempt to RMA them. I killed them ... fair and square.

    For every 1 prop chip, someone kills and gets free, I kill 50 props and order 100 more. The 50 dead props land in my relic pile, some of them still twitch, ...mostly...

    Kens right, see, most of our time is more valuable than 8$ it takes to order and 3 days delivery time. By the time an RMA gets back, you are 2 weeks+ later round time.
    You burnt through any savings in wasted wait time.

    This policy is best because it supports the hobbyist, the poor student(who killed an 8$ chip, dosen't know how, and can't afford a new one till next semester)

    Really, the parallax policy covers people who were dumb with their new toys, most of us eventually learn to be more careful, and "disappear" from the RMA users list quite rapidly.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2014-02-19 22:48
    Clock Loop wrote: »
    At the rate im going, im more than making up for the abusers. I've killed over 50 props in a single week timeframe, didn't break a sweat. ... but i think I shed a tear possibly...

    Nor did I or would I attempt to RMA them. I killed them ... fair and square.

    We should figure out what you're doing to destroy so many Propeller chips, if you don't already know.

    Call our tech support and start with a question or two to David Carrier. If needed we can elevate to Jeff Martin, too, and even talk with Chip if needed.

    Let's reduce your mortality rate, Clock Loop!

    Ken Gracey
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-02-19 23:03
    In many ways, i'd love to see this thread just go away. The title is presumtive, negative and annoying.

    On the other hand, I am alwaysam happy to see Ken Gracy jump in with a clearly open-minded stance and ready to resolve any flaw in Parallax's operations.

    For someone new to Parallax, there are items that may seem excessive; and yet there are others that huge bargains. The Propeller chip at less than $10 USD is a great bargain. So is the Propeller ProtoBoard at roughly $25 USD. The Quickstart is another excellent value. Other stuff begins to offer more niche features and prices climb.

    The BS2 is a rather oddity in pricing at this point... nearly $50 USD for a device that has 32 bytes of RAM. But way back when Parallax got started with the BasicStamps, nobody else was providing software for free. And even a somewhat suspect version of PIC Basic might cost you $150 if you wanted find a cheap hardware alternative.

    I think that the bottom line is that Parallax has always tried to offer a greater value than their competitors. And the value has been a combined basket of hardware, software, and support.

    The core items that are currently revelevant (the core of the Propeller product line) are appropriately priced. Other stuff just depends on the trade off between building yourself or wanting an item that will resolve all that for you.

    Damaged Propellers? I have one with a lot of flakey i/o that I mangled. For the most part, the Propellers are difficult to kill if connect all the Vdd and Vss properly.
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2014-02-20 08:57
    Clock Loop wrote: »
    At the rate im going, im more than making up for the abusers. I've killed over 50 props in a single week timeframe, didn't break a sweat. ... but i think I shed a tear possibly...

    Nor did I or would I attempt to RMA them. I killed them ... fair and square.

    For every 1 prop chip, someone kills and gets free, I kill 50 props and order 100 more. The 50 dead props land in my relic pile, some of them still twitch, ...mostly...

    Kens right, see, most of our time is more valuable than 8$ it takes to order and 3 days delivery time. By the time an RMA gets back, you are 2 weeks+ later round time.
    You burnt through any savings in wasted wait time.

    This policy is best because it supports the hobbyist, the poor student(who killed an 8$ chip, dosen't know how, and can't afford a new one till next semester)

    Really, the parallax policy covers people who were dumb with their new toys, most of us eventually learn to be more careful, and "disappear" from the RMA users list quite rapidly.

    I am very curious what you did to kill 50 props in 1 week!
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-02-20 09:00
    Yes, very curious. That Propellercide on a mass scale. Perhaps he was building one of Humanoido's Big Brains and something went horribly wrong.
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-02-20 15:44
    I agree with Loopy on the BS2 product-line but I am guessing it must be a "cash cow" for Parallax. Parallax financials are not publically available but there must not be a lot of debt.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-02-21 03:36
    I don't think that the BS2 is so much of a 'cash cow' for Parallax as the reality is that there are customers that have made something with a BS2 inside and are selling their product at a profit. They re-order and keep the devices in production.

    Parallax wants to make sure that enterprises that depend on them, don't have the rug pulled out from under by removing their supplier. The device is expensive to produce in California, so it retains its high price.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2014-02-21 05:05
    OT - I still have a genuine 24pin DIP P8X16A working propeller chip. I believe it's the only one in captivity :)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-02-21 07:16
    Propellercide now torture what is this?:)
  • 4x5n4x5n Posts: 745
    edited 2014-02-21 09:51
    I've been doing my best to stay out of this thread since I got to it late and most of what I want to write has already been written it also appears that the OP has left the thread. However like others I have to ask how a person can "kill" 50 props in a single week! :smile: I've personally never damaged one and it certainly wasn't do to a lack of trying on my part!

    As to the price of Parallax I have to say that when I first started using Parallax "stuff" I was amazed at how cheap their prices were! I guess it's all a matter of perspective. :-)
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2014-02-21 10:43
    mindrobots wrote: »
    Wonderful!! From Wiki:



    Trolls can be fun for a while (like a cat enjoys playing with a mouse) but you are right, eventually, sending to Coventry is the best idea!

    !?! So my car was made by trolls?
  • xanatosxanatos Posts: 1,120
    edited 2014-02-21 10:51
    I don't think that the BS2 is so much of a 'cash cow' for Parallax as the reality is that there are customers that have made something with a BS2 inside and are selling their product at a profit. They re-order and keep the devices in production.

    Parallax wants to make sure that enterprises that depend on them, don't have the rug pulled out from under by removing their supplier. The device is expensive to produce in California, so it retains its high price.

    Yup... I have several products in the field that use BS2 chips. While $50 may seem like a lot if you're just doing a small hobby one-off, it's actually just a drop in the bucket for a large project for a paying client where total hardware winds up being less than 10% of the overall cost - and that hardware often includes several high $$ items, like 60A SSRs, etc. Development and coding is where most of the project cost comes from, and being able to design with such a friendly, reliable, robust product as the Basic Stamp makes it much more enjoyable. Plus a lot of the stuff I make - despite monitoring or controlling literally 100 or more other devices - very rarely requires more than a single processor, so an 8-core propeller would get bored! :)
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2014-02-21 11:08
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    OT - I still have a genuine 24pin DIP P8X16A working propeller chip. I believe it's the only one in captivity :)

    Are you talking about a 40pin DIP that had some surgery done to it?
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-02-21 11:20
    pedward wrote: »
    Are you talking about a 40pin DIP that had some surgery done to it?


    Yup

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/149255-P8X16A-DIP24-16xI-O-Propeller-now-working-)
  • eventsevents Posts: 27
    edited 2014-02-21 14:32
    It is with great shame, the company will buy freescale. To program in OOP and events, simply the best (P8X32). But the boss, does not want Parallax. Cuts in electronics. Developers are in the business, and have to be paid, so it cuts the rest. Aliatron sells very expensive. Congratulations, who designed the chip.
  • 4x5n4x5n Posts: 745
    edited 2014-02-21 14:54
    events wrote: »
    It is with great shame, the company will buy freescale. To program in OOP and events, simply the best (P8X32). But the boss, does not want Parallax. Cuts in electronics. Developers are in the business, and have to be paid, so it cuts the rest. Aliatron sells very expensive. Congratulations, who designed the chip.

    Can I ask which Freescale chip your company is going with?
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2014-02-21 15:08
    I once bought a dev board from Freescale.

    After I got it I found out "support" only lasted a year, after that they expected me to purchase a "support" contract. "Support" in this case meaning problem resolution, software updates, etc. I never looked at another product from them again. Not that my tiny amount of hobbyist business would have made much difference to them.

    Funny thing, after almost 6 years of them ignoring me, I've started to get promotional e-mails from them again.
  • eventsevents Posts: 27
    edited 2014-02-21 15:35
    4x5n, we will use two MK10DN32VFM5 on the same pcb. Cheap Automatas. The software is developed by us, "inputs photography".
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-02-21 16:21
    Events
    But the boss, does not want Parallax.....
    Find a way to fire your boss!

    Sounds impossible, but I have seen, from time to time, that when engineers come up with cheap and simple solutions to problems that were said to be "impossible" by the company eventually they get their way and the old bosses are out.
  • eventsevents Posts: 27
    edited 2014-02-21 16:54
    I have worked with Japanese, British, German, Netherlands, Spain engineers.
    But the worst are the French and the Belgians. And this time, I write code in assembler (love) for French mechanical engineers. They only see money, nothing more. When I spoke in P8x32, no problem. The problem started exactly
    "Why, the parallax products are too expensive?" Undoubtedly, the Parallax, earning much money, if he could slightly adjust the price. I'm sorry, I am not the boss. But the P8X32 is a star in the sky.
  • 4x5n4x5n Posts: 745
    edited 2014-02-21 17:14
    events wrote: »
    4x5n, we will use two MK10DN32VFM5 on the same pcb. Cheap Automatas. The software is developed by us, "inputs photography".

    Nice chip. I hope it works well for you.
  • 4x5n4x5n Posts: 745
    edited 2014-02-21 17:22
    events wrote: »
    I have worked with Japanese, British, German, Netherlands, Spain engineers.
    But the worst are the French and the Belgians. And this time, I write code in assembler (love) for French mechanical engineers. They only see money, nothing more. When I spoke in P8x32, no problem. The problem started exactly
    "Why, the parallax products are too expensive?" Undoubtedly, the Parallax, earning much money, if he could slightly adjust the price. I'm sorry, I am not the boss. But the P8X32 is a star in the sky.

    In the case of the propeller my bet is that it's an expensive chip to make which translates into high per chip cost. With 8 cores each running at up to 80mhz and 32 general purpose IO pins it rates as a high end chip (well above average at least). While I sometimes wish Parallax made a low end pic type of chip they've made it clear that they're not interested in doing so.
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