I was wondering if you could give us an update on the Propeller II progress. I have a board almost ready for
our next PoS terminal but I need more information about the SDRam interface.
Progress - We are moving along, most of the COG is complete, the 'glue logic' is being handled by a third party with some 5000+ peripheral connections that 'we' interface to.
As far as the SDRam interface, I'm not sure what you mean since you'll be able to assign the I/O's you'd like to the SDRam. If you mean software and/or communication detail I will need to ask Chip, while I can read the schematics and convert them into layout, it's hard to determine sometimes the wizardry that Chip puts into the schematic design itself. Plus, I'm not on the software end of the Propeller II just yet, that will come later, when my hardware efforts are complete.
Beau:
I have noticed that the preliminary info on the Propeller II, post on the Parallax site, has not changed in quite a while (2010). Does this mean that it accurately represents what the PropII will do?
On that note, I see the latest PIC24's have joined other vendors, in offering 2V-5V operation, on their new FV models.
(16 x 16 Hardware Multiply, & 32-bit x 16-bit Hardware Divider )
Beau, wasn't there some caveat like some things might work with 5V power on the I/O ?
I thought I remembered Chip saying last year that basic I/O would work at higher voltage but special functions like ADC and DAC wouldn't work...
The Propeller II will only support 1.8V to 3.3V on the I/O's and is tolerant to 3.6V.
If you are running digital stuff, the I/O's can go down to 1.8V, however it is advised that if there is any analog pin applications that you run the I/O's at 3.3V.
BigFoot,
If you search Digi-Key with this term: "SDRAM 54-TSOP" All those SDRAMs will work with the Prop II.
Beau:
I am so anxious to here more to know when to expect the Propeller II, I almost feel like a child waiting for Christmas morning.
I am already writing a XC68020 Emulator for the Prop, being careful to keep an eye on how I will have to modify it to run on the Propeller II. This will alow a significant reduction in production costs for the MuAmi (the 68K CPUs are not cheep [unlike intel IA32 chips]), and Freescale has officially discontinued all but the 68SEC000.
Thanks for the information, this was the last part of the puzzle that we needed. We should have our board ready
by the time you have prototypes available and would be glad to help you test them.
A while back I recall mention of 'Virtual Pins' - ie unbonded I/O pins, that allowed SW R/W without consuming physical pins.
Is that still coming on Prop II, and how many ? { 84/92 physical IO mentioned, but 96/128 are a natural 32 multiples ? }
A while back I recall mention of 'Virtual Pins' - ie unbonded I/O pins, that allowed SW R/W without consuming physical pins.
Is that still coming on Prop II, and how many ? { 84/92 physical IO mentioned, but 96/128 are a natural 32 multiples ? }
If memory serves me right, Chip said there is going to be a 32-bit wide buss as you described.
If you search Digi-Key with this term: "SDRAM 54-TSOP" All those SDRAMs will work with the Prop II.
DDR type SDRAM will be the main option going forward. SDR type SDRAM is getting hard to find at reasonable prices.
Since Prop II supports user settable I/O DDR will work fine. DDR is probably not usable with today's Propeller.
With the right kind of external memory will the Prop 2 be able to display 1080p30, or maybe 1080p60? Will it be able to drive an HDMI interface directly? What about DVI or VGA interfaces -- what resolutions and frame rates will it handle with those interfaces? And I'm assuming full-res RGB and YCrCb signals, and not just sprites.
Does anybody know the answers to those questions?
Also, would it be possible to get more information about the Prop 2 instruction set?
Leon:
Instruction set? For HDMI? what instruction set are you speeking the above questions are about HDMI.
Though I would add to my previous:
If you plan on doing these resolutions using standard analog VGA signals: Yes it does appear that the Prop II would be well more than capable.
With the right kind of external memory will the Prop 2 be able to display 1080p30, or maybe 1080p60? Will it be able to drive an HDMI interface directly? What about DVI or VGA interfaces -- what resolutions and frame rates will it handle with those interfaces? And I'm assuming full-res RGB and YCrCb signals, and not just sprites.
I replied on the instruction set for the Propeller II already in post #270 shortly after you had requested it in post #267. At the moment that is all that I have on the instruction set.
As far as the video capabilities, I don't know at the moment. I do believe Chip will provide a nice demonstration regarding video among other things at the upcoming EXPO a the end of this month.
Yes, I was asking about graphics display capability and the instruction set. As far as HDMI and other display modes, I assume Parallax set certain goals for the Prop 2 to achieve. Somebody in Parallax must know what the Prop 2 will be capable of. I'm just trying to find out what we can expect in that area.
As Beau mentioned, the instruction set for the Prop 2 was posted in post #270, which was 2 months ago. I'm just hoping for a description of what the instructions do.
From what I understand, the Prop II targets all the analog display modes. 1080p VGA, component (Y,Cb,Cr), PAL, NTSC...
I think something like HDMI would be via external device. For a encrypted sighal, that makes sense anyway, because of licenses. I don't know about a raw one.
Color transforms were discussed, Don't know the state of that, other than I do recall Chip saying, any to any color transforms in software.
As for a full signal, all depends on the depth requirements. The speed is there to do those things, with the question being RAM, as that's always the question with video related things.
With the right kind of external memory will the Prop 2 be able to display 1080p30, or maybe 1080p60? Will it be able to drive an HDMI interface directly
Chip told me at UPEC that not even Prop 2 is capable of the datarate required for direct HDMI. But, there are many external chips can be used to do it.
He also mentioned targeting YCrCb, but I mentioned that VGA at 1080p is just as good.
I gather that the Prop2 will be able to do 1080p60 even without external memory. Prop1 can already to 720p60, so that's not much of a stretch.
The integrated DAC on every pin should allow for much better color depth.
Comments
KK
Thanks for the update, it sounds like things are going well with the design. That was kinda funny about
only being able to warm up the fuses.
Btw, could it be as good as the dsPIC?
I was wondering if you could give us an update on the Propeller II progress. I have a board almost ready for
our next PoS terminal but I need more information about the SDRam interface.
Progress - We are moving along, most of the COG is complete, the 'glue logic' is being handled by a third party with some 5000+ peripheral connections that 'we' interface to.
As far as the SDRam interface, I'm not sure what you mean since you'll be able to assign the I/O's you'd like to the SDRam. If you mean software and/or communication detail I will need to ask Chip, while I can read the schematics and convert them into layout, it's hard to determine sometimes the wizardry that Chip puts into the schematic design itself. Plus, I'm not on the software end of the Propeller II just yet, that will come later, when my hardware efforts are complete.
Thanks for the update, there are many different kinds of SD Ram and I was just wondering which
type Chip had in mind ?
I have noticed that the preliminary info on the Propeller II, post on the Parallax site, has not changed in quite a while (2010). Does this mean that it accurately represents what the PropII will do?
On that note, I see the latest PIC24's have joined other vendors, in offering 2V-5V operation, on their new FV models.
(16 x 16 Hardware Multiply, & 32-bit x 16-bit Hardware Divider )
5V IO and 5V analog on the Prop II ?
"SD Ram ... I was just wondering which type Chip had in mind" - Still need to get back to you on that.
davidsaunders,
"...Does this mean that it accurately represents what the PropII will do?" - This looks fairly accurate.
jmg,
"5V IO and 5V analog on the Prop II ?" - No, the Propeller II will only support 1.8V to 3.3V on the I/O's
I thought I remembered Chip saying last year that basic I/O would work at higher voltage but special functions like ADC and DAC wouldn't work...
The Propeller II will only support 1.8V to 3.3V on the I/O's and is tolerant to 3.6V.
If you are running digital stuff, the I/O's can go down to 1.8V, however it is advised that if there is any analog pin applications that you run the I/O's at 3.3V.
BigFoot,
If you search Digi-Key with this term: "SDRAM 54-TSOP" All those SDRAMs will work with the Prop II.
I am so anxious to here more to know when to expect the Propeller II, I almost feel like a child waiting for Christmas morning.
I am already writing a XC68020 Emulator for the Prop, being careful to keep an eye on how I will have to modify it to run on the Propeller II. This will alow a significant reduction in production costs for the MuAmi (the 68K CPUs are not cheep [unlike intel IA32 chips]), and Freescale has officially discontinued all but the 68SEC000.
For me, that's probably more useful than working at 5V anyway.
Thanks for the information, this was the last part of the puzzle that we needed. We should have our board ready
by the time you have prototypes available and would be glad to help you test them.
Is that still coming on Prop II, and how many ? { 84/92 physical IO mentioned, but 96/128 are a natural 32 multiples ? }
If memory serves me right, Chip said there is going to be a 32-bit wide buss as you described.
Since Prop II supports user settable I/O DDR will work fine. DDR is probably not usable with today's Propeller.
Does anybody know the answers to those questions?
Also, would it be possible to get more information about the Prop 2 instruction set?
Thanks,
Dave
Instruction set? For HDMI? what instruction set are you speeking the above questions are about HDMI.
Though I would add to my previous:
If you plan on doing these resolutions using standard analog VGA signals: Yes it does appear that the Prop II would be well more than capable.
It looks like the questions that he is asking for clarification on are quite well HDMI related to me:
Dave Hein:
Will you please clarify?
I replied on the instruction set for the Propeller II already in post #270 shortly after you had requested it in post #267. At the moment that is all that I have on the instruction set.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?125543-Propeller-II-update-BLOG&p=983110&viewfull=1#post983110
As far as the video capabilities, I don't know at the moment. I do believe Chip will provide a nice demonstration regarding video among other things at the upcoming EXPO a the end of this month.
See his last question. He seems to be asking about the instruction set to me.
As Beau mentioned, the instruction set for the Prop 2 was posted in post #270, which was 2 months ago. I'm just hoping for a description of what the instructions do.
I think something like HDMI would be via external device. For a encrypted sighal, that makes sense anyway, because of licenses. I don't know about a raw one.
Color transforms were discussed, Don't know the state of that, other than I do recall Chip saying, any to any color transforms in software.
As for a full signal, all depends on the depth requirements. The speed is there to do those things, with the question being RAM, as that's always the question with video related things.
Chip told me at UPEC that not even Prop 2 is capable of the datarate required for direct HDMI. But, there are many external chips can be used to do it.
He also mentioned targeting YCrCb, but I mentioned that VGA at 1080p is just as good.
I gather that the Prop2 will be able to do 1080p60 even without external memory. Prop1 can already to 720p60, so that's not much of a stretch.
The integrated DAC on every pin should allow for much better color depth.