I completely agree with you and am sad to hear that so much is done on Apple devices. I am currently transitioning all of my devices over to android, the much better alternative to Apple. If only Parallax had a kit that would allow you to create a Parallax cellphone....
I completely agree with you and am sad to hear that so much is done on Apple devices. I am currently transitioning all of my devices over to android, the much better alternative to Apple. If only Parallax had a kit that would allow you to create a Parallax cellphone....
Sounds like a great project! tell me more about it............
One can program a Propeller from a Raspberry Pi using SimpleIDE or just the command line tools.
If one can get an ssh app on Android to access the Pi then one can Program a Propeller via that.
We have been looking a creating a WEB based IDE for Spin. It works, sort of, not sure how well it works on Android tabs. Would need a Rasperry Pi to serve up the IDE pages and do the Propeller programming. That might take a while to perfect, if it ever happens.
I'm not surprised. Me to. It seems "Sturm and Drang" was some kind of punk movement in Germany in the 1700's. Certainly sounds like a heavy metal enthusiasts magazine title. Or a Rammstein clone.
Well, I have seen a kit in micro center and in Radio Shack that allows you to put your SIM card in a SD-card-like holder that attaches to an Arduino and the rest of your chosen accessories such as an LCD screen, a GPS module, an accelerometer, etc..
In my opinion, who wouldn't want to build their own cellphone???????? I would much rather go into high school with a cell phone that I built and customized with Parallax equipment instead of some mainstream cell phone that I bought ( and didn't get to build and program ). Why can't you hit 2 birds with one stone? Also, such a kit could attract a lot of new customers as it would break down a barrier between Parallax and Arduino.
Sorry to inject some reality, but there are a couple problems with that. The battery life would be even worse than with the smartphones of today. Yes you could use a certified module, which cost upwards of $100. To be able to any apps you would need a RasbPi or similar, otherwise your software is starting at 0.
You could do your own RF front end if you have a spare $1M to spend on regulatory certification (I use to work for a custom cellphone design company, and that is what it takes, yes it is quite a racket).
I believe it's quite possible to by tiny phone modules that can provide voice and data services. I have not checked them out for some time. Then it's up to you to provide the controlling compute power, user interface, microphone amplifier, etc. Sounds quite doable.
In fact SparkFun have done exactly that https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/287 You cannot buy their phone any more but all the info on how they did it is there for inspection and inspiration.
Sorry to have to correct your perceptions of reality but SparkFun did this with a GM862 Cellular Quad Band Module and a PIC 16F88 plus some analogue parts. Those Modules can be ad for 50 bucks.
There is not much of a battery problem with this. Could probably get a longer battery life than my Samsung Galaxy. If not, what the heck use bigger batteries:)
Heater is right, there is no problem with battery life. Heck, I would be willing to lug around a 1 pound battery to be able to power my phone for a day.
brucee, yes, you are right about the user interface, but if you could import the Qt GUI library, you could create some simple actions and apps with little work. You are also right about price, as it would probably cost a few hundred dollars, but in the end, a basic version probably wouldn't cost much more than a low priced, new Apple IPhone.
With sufficient skill and tenacity one could design a board to hold a phone module, the analog parts, an ARM processor (borrow the design from the Beagle boards say) and a display. Built in sufficient numbers the price would be quite reasonable.
Yes it would be bigger and "cruder" than an iPhoneHome or Samsung Galaxy and it may even cost more. But heck one does not do a project like this to compete on price. The finished item would be a lot more useful to me than any current stupid smart phone. It would be a full up Debian running computer.
I've noticed that Parallax has pruned down the Stamps in Class products to just WAM, Boe-Bot, Basic Analog and Digital, and SumoBot. Many of the old texts aren't even available online.
Jon nailed it. Customers want results and how you do it and what you use doesn't matter. The BS2 has been used in industry for many years and I was happy to learn that a medical device company had used it to made a production line tester. In that case they used a BS2-OEM. At other places I have seen PCs and PLCs.
The iPad was never designed for hardware and I can understand why Apple never added USB ports to it. Any kind of programming on an iPad other than an App is awkward because unlike in a PC there is no direct link to the hardware. The idea of programming in the Cloud and wirelessly has security issues that might mean nothing in an educational setting unless it's a project with patent potential.
I've seen job listings with requirements for specialized languages and equipment. I also know in this age of tight budgets and limited equipment that anything you can make that doesn't need a PC to use makes everyone happy. The fact that the Propeller can spread processes among the Cogs and output to a display makes it a good platform for production tools and testers. The Propeller has great potential as an engineering platform and most colleges and universities have engineering programs.
I've noticed that Parallax has pruned down the Stamps in Class products to just WAM, Boe-Bot, Basic Analog and Digital, and SumoBot. Many of the old texts aren't even available online.
... And that might be because all the educators are huddled away in their own private sub forum. ...
IMO, that was a wise decision on Parallax's part. Educators need a quiet place to discuss their craft as it relates to Parallax products, without the distracting Sturm und Drang of the general forum.
-Phil
Skimming thru this thread, I have to totally agree!
Thank you, Gordon. Sometimes I'm surprised at what I read in the forums. The general vibe on non-technical discussion can be very doubtful, concerning, and even incorrect on certain topics (like the relevance of Parallax in education). It may be that Parallax doesn't communicate clearly, too.
We've responded well to educational customers and they're showing us in their orders. At this moment we are very low on stock with over 250 back orders waiting to be filled [mostly schools]. I'm not boasting here, but trying to correct some of the doubt that I read.
Ken Gracey
From what I can gather Parallax has done quite a bit in education in a very positive sense, but their efforts are more localized due to language and distances. I really don't know what goes on the the Teacher's Forum as I don't participate. Why? I teach English, not electronics or programming.
I did not mean to disparage Parallax as exploiting education. I simply was attempting to express my concerns that others certainly do. Some are big names in the toy industry. And some are the biggest names in the computer industry trying to assert their market presence.
I am fully aware of the struggles of meeting payroll and covering overhead. I did this for several years. Cash flow can be a relentless challenge in economic ups and downs. But I just will never subscribe to a "Money is everything" outlook on life. And I have certainly found that there are many good employees that are not focused on a "Money is everything" attitude.
I find teaching English in Taiwan very rewarding in other ways and have never taken an approach where I tried to get top dollar from my students. I find that the most rewarding aspect of teaching English is when students really grasp what you struggle to share with them and are able to use it to improve their own lives.
It is disheartening that some of today's richest people have acquired wealth by dropping out of university, and that others succeed so well by creating a media image that has an entirely selfish lifestyle focus. But that has been the trend for a few decades now.
There are others that quietly make modest incomes, live within their means, and find it far more rewarding to see others within their community mature into happy helpful people.
I do not expect everyone to agree with me. But I will continue to assert that the right kind of education is very important to making the world a better place for everyone.
Even meeting payroll is a lot easier when you have actually learned accounting, payroll taxes, and some managerial skills.
On cell phones and Props: I don't think I'd want to lug around something so ungainly, but it's a terrific idea -- for remote data collection and transmission. Bringing up the Arduino spectre again, there are a number of published projects for that platform for rigging up GSM phone guts with the controller for sending SMS data messages at regular intervals as a means to keep track of a remote environment. You could create your own car theft tracker using a Propeller, GPS, and GSM module. The battery in a car is certainly big enough to power it all.
[0] I got my first Mac a week ago so all my problems are likely self-inflicted ;-)
Its for me too late . I have a PC for the EE related stuff.i just use the proptool ..
and as far as the college's are conceried they want MORE GUI . you need to make it as fun as the proptool ..Real programmers for some reason get exceited to use nano to write code ...... the N00bs in college need a Real GUI .
remember they are looking at easy peasy arduinos . the IDE needs to be very well laid out and clean and fun .
Real programmers for some reason get exceited to use nano to write code
Err...what? I have heard plenty of editor wars in my time, vi vs emacs, etc, etc. I have never seen a programmer use nano let alone get even remotely excited by it.
Err...what? I have heard plenty of editor wars in my time, vi vs emacs, etc, etc. I have never seen a programmer use nano let alone get even remotely excited by it.
Calm down Heater ;-)
I've never used nano either, but I just wrote up some commit comments with vim.
Maybe nano is worth something too. Anything but meta, meta, meta LOL (joking ;-)
It's OK. I'm as calm as a calm person on a clam day can be.
I'm not much bothered what editor people use or if they like some IDE or other. As long as their choice does not get imposed on me by having some IDE specific build system or whatever.
I just could not fathom the idea that any programmers like to program in nano. Never seen even one case. Was it joke? I don't know.
As it happens I have nothing against nano either. Who does not like minimalism? I've used it on devices where there were not enough resource to have even vi and was very glad it was there. So yes, nano can be worth a lot.
It's a bit puzzling how it comes about that kids in school need GUIs and IDE's. Is that the same way they need calculators? I.e. they don't.
How on earth did all those 10 year olds teach themselves to program in BASIC and also assembler with their C64's and Sinclairs back in the day?
It's OK. I'm as calm as a calm person on a clam day can be.
I'm not much bothered what editor people use or if they like some IDE or other. As long as their choice does not get imposed on me by having some IDE specific build system or whatever.
I just could not fathom the idea that any programmers like to program in nano. Never seen even one case. Was it joke? I don't know.
As it happens I have nothing against nano either. Who does not like minimalism? I've used it on devices where there were not enough resource to have even vi and was very glad it was there. So yes, nano can be worth a lot.
It's a bit puzzling how it comes about that kids in school need GUIs and IDE's. Is that the same way they need calculators? I.e. they don't.
How on earth did all those 10 year olds teach themselves to program in BASIC and also assembler with their C64's and Sinclairs back in the day?
Oh It was a total joke . .
as far as todays kids . I am old skool . I learned Opcodes for the 8085 with a HEATH trainer that used a Hex Number pad for program entry....... MIght not be punch cards but it was Darn close ! Remember I am only the ripe age of 28 .
I was not joking, just puzzled about the nano thing. That's all.
Having done the punch card thing, our university was a bit slow in catching up with multi-user systems, and the HEX number pad thing I'd say having your own machine with your own keypad is a lot more convenient even if it is so crude. At least your edit/debug cycle is a thousand times faster:)
The world is awash with innovations from hustlers and promoters, so a good simple tool kit is difficult to impose on the novice.
In other words, the tool box is brim full of distractions.
That's why I actually have preferred learning through Parallax... less of the distractions, more about what really is needed to get somethig to work.
There are just too many choices. And when the teaching platform happens to include games as well, the kids lock on those and nothing gets done.
++++++++++++++++
Back when I did learn Fortran on an IBM 360 there was just one rule that was impossed -- no games.
Why? It ate up lost of computer time and not much was learned. Programming was supposed to produce useful outcomes while saving time that would be occupied by tedious tasks.
Of course, in today's world that is all rather absurd.
Nano is just a nice tiny text editor. Maybe a bit unforgiving, but demonstrates clearly that an ASCII text editor can do a heck of a lot (or is it Unicode these days?).
Nano does look a lot like my early Wordstar. I liked Wordstar. Vim always makes me worry that it is going to do something unexpected.
Except, Loopy, some of the best programmers in the world will tell you they got their start in and inspiration for programming by hacking on games. Many from the 8 bit or pre PC days were in their bedrooms with their machines as youngsters either trying to write a game for themselves or hack on an existing one to tweak the scores, break the protections or add features of their own.
Perhaps the sharpest programmer and all round clever guy I ever met did exactly that. He was working on radar systems when I got to know him. For him there was not much difference between a game and a radar system a lot of concepts apply to both radar systems and games, whether it be code design and organization, optimization, the maths involved and so on.
I can understand those guys banning games, after all with such enthusiastic and stimulated students tenaciously honing their skills on the games that motivate them the old computer systems would soon grind to a halt. But as you see, by doing so they have just killed all that stimulation and motivation and done their students a disservice.
Gamification is guaranteed to save our education system from its present nosedive. I mean, how else can you expect kids nowadays to care about learning?
And of course, they have a bright future in slot machine repair and development of gaming machines in Las Vegas......... They won't have to park cars or make beds in hotel rooms.
One might even move to Macao as it has overtaken Las Vegas as the world's gambling capital.
Comments
I completely agree with you and am sad to hear that so much is done on Apple devices. I am currently transitioning all of my devices over to android, the much better alternative to Apple. If only Parallax had a kit that would allow you to create a Parallax cellphone....
One can program a Propeller from a Raspberry Pi using SimpleIDE or just the command line tools.
If one can get an ssh app on Android to access the Pi then one can Program a Propeller via that.
We have been looking a creating a WEB based IDE for Spin. It works, sort of, not sure how well it works on Android tabs. Would need a Rasperry Pi to serve up the IDE pages and do the Propeller programming. That might take a while to perfect, if it ever happens.
...damn! I had to look that up.
I'm not surprised. Me to. It seems "Sturm and Drang" was some kind of punk movement in Germany in the 1700's. Certainly sounds like a heavy metal enthusiasts magazine title. Or a Rammstein clone.
In my opinion, who wouldn't want to build their own cellphone???????? I would much rather go into high school with a cell phone that I built and customized with Parallax equipment instead of some mainstream cell phone that I bought ( and didn't get to build and program
Sorry to inject some reality, but there are a couple problems with that. The battery life would be even worse than with the smartphones of today. Yes you could use a certified module, which cost upwards of $100. To be able to any apps you would need a RasbPi or similar, otherwise your software is starting at 0.
You could do your own RF front end if you have a spare $1M to spend on regulatory certification (I use to work for a custom cellphone design company, and that is what it takes, yes it is quite a racket).
I believe it's quite possible to by tiny phone modules that can provide voice and data services. I have not checked them out for some time. Then it's up to you to provide the controlling compute power, user interface, microphone amplifier, etc. Sounds quite doable.
In fact SparkFun have done exactly that https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/287 You cannot buy their phone any more but all the info on how they did it is there for inspection and inspiration.
Sorry to have to correct your perceptions of reality but SparkFun did this with a GM862 Cellular Quad Band Module and a PIC 16F88 plus some analogue parts. Those Modules can be ad for 50 bucks.
There is not much of a battery problem with this. Could probably get a longer battery life than my Samsung Galaxy. If not, what the heck use bigger batteries:)
Apps, who said anything about apps?
Then there is the Raspbery Pi "smart" phone project. Can be built for £160. http://www.raspberrypi.org/piphone-home-made-raspberry-pi-smartphone
brucee, yes, you are right about the user interface, but if you could import the Qt GUI library, you could create some simple actions and apps with little work. You are also right about price, as it would probably cost a few hundred dollars, but in the end, a basic version probably wouldn't cost much more than a low priced, new Apple IPhone.
Yes it would be bigger and "cruder" than an iPhoneHome or Samsung Galaxy and it may even cost more. But heck one does not do a project like this to compete on price. The finished item would be a lot more useful to me than any current stupid smart phone. It would be a full up Debian running computer.
Sounds like a kickstarter project.
Jon nailed it. Customers want results and how you do it and what you use doesn't matter. The BS2 has been used in industry for many years and I was happy to learn that a medical device company had used it to made a production line tester. In that case they used a BS2-OEM. At other places I have seen PCs and PLCs.
The iPad was never designed for hardware and I can understand why Apple never added USB ports to it. Any kind of programming on an iPad other than an App is awkward because unlike in a PC there is no direct link to the hardware. The idea of programming in the Cloud and wirelessly has security issues that might mean nothing in an educational setting unless it's a project with patent potential.
I've seen job listings with requirements for specialized languages and equipment. I also know in this age of tight budgets and limited equipment that anything you can make that doesn't need a PC to use makes everyone happy. The fact that the Propeller can spread processes among the Cogs and output to a display makes it a good platform for production tools and testers. The Propeller has great potential as an engineering platform and most colleges and universities have engineering programs.
Specifically?
https://www.parallax.com/downloads/smart-sensors-and-applications-text
https://www.parallax.com/downloads/process-control-text
https://www.parallax.com/downloads/understanding-signals-propscope-text
https://www.parallax.com/downloads/ir-remote-boe-bot-text
There's more, too. It's all in our download file management system.
Ken Gracey
From what I can gather Parallax has done quite a bit in education in a very positive sense, but their efforts are more localized due to language and distances. I really don't know what goes on the the Teacher's Forum as I don't participate. Why? I teach English, not electronics or programming.
I did not mean to disparage Parallax as exploiting education. I simply was attempting to express my concerns that others certainly do. Some are big names in the toy industry. And some are the biggest names in the computer industry trying to assert their market presence.
I am fully aware of the struggles of meeting payroll and covering overhead. I did this for several years. Cash flow can be a relentless challenge in economic ups and downs. But I just will never subscribe to a "Money is everything" outlook on life. And I have certainly found that there are many good employees that are not focused on a "Money is everything" attitude.
I find teaching English in Taiwan very rewarding in other ways and have never taken an approach where I tried to get top dollar from my students. I find that the most rewarding aspect of teaching English is when students really grasp what you struggle to share with them and are able to use it to improve their own lives.
It is disheartening that some of today's richest people have acquired wealth by dropping out of university, and that others succeed so well by creating a media image that has an entirely selfish lifestyle focus. But that has been the trend for a few decades now.
There are others that quietly make modest incomes, live within their means, and find it far more rewarding to see others within their community mature into happy helpful people.
I do not expect everyone to agree with me. But I will continue to assert that the right kind of education is very important to making the world a better place for everyone.
Even meeting payroll is a lot easier when you have actually learned accounting, payroll taxes, and some managerial skills.
errr... I'm using simpleide on MacOSX with both C and SPIN flawlessly[0].
You can also use vi and Makefiles too if they want the less GUI / more "UNIXesque" development environment.
which reminds me...
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/118328-Spin-syntax-definition-for-Vim
:-)
[0] I got my first Mac a week ago so all my problems are likely self-inflicted ;-)
Its for me too late . I have a PC for the EE related stuff.i just use the proptool ..
and as far as the college's are conceried they want MORE GUI . you need to make it as fun as the proptool ..Real programmers for some reason get exceited to use nano to write code ...... the N00bs in college need a Real GUI .
remember they are looking at easy peasy arduinos . the IDE needs to be very well laid out and clean and fun .
Calm down Heater ;-)
I've never used nano either, but I just wrote up some commit comments with vim.
Maybe nano is worth something too. Anything but meta, meta, meta LOL (joking ;-)
I'm not much bothered what editor people use or if they like some IDE or other. As long as their choice does not get imposed on me by having some IDE specific build system or whatever.
I just could not fathom the idea that any programmers like to program in nano. Never seen even one case. Was it joke? I don't know.
As it happens I have nothing against nano either. Who does not like minimalism? I've used it on devices where there were not enough resource to have even vi and was very glad it was there. So yes, nano can be worth a lot.
It's a bit puzzling how it comes about that kids in school need GUIs and IDE's. Is that the same way they need calculators? I.e. they don't.
How on earth did all those 10 year olds teach themselves to program in BASIC and also assembler with their C64's and Sinclairs back in the day?
Oh It was a total joke . .
as far as todays kids . I am old skool . I learned Opcodes for the 8085 with a HEATH trainer that used a Hex Number pad for program entry....... MIght not be punch cards but it was Darn close ! Remember I am only the ripe age of 28 .
Having done the punch card thing, our university was a bit slow in catching up with multi-user systems, and the HEX number pad thing I'd say having your own machine with your own keypad is a lot more convenient even if it is so crude. At least your edit/debug cycle is a thousand times faster:)
Nostalgia was much better back then.
In other words, the tool box is brim full of distractions.
That's why I actually have preferred learning through Parallax... less of the distractions, more about what really is needed to get somethig to work.
There are just too many choices. And when the teaching platform happens to include games as well, the kids lock on those and nothing gets done.
++++++++++++++++
Back when I did learn Fortran on an IBM 360 there was just one rule that was impossed -- no games.
Why? It ate up lost of computer time and not much was learned. Programming was supposed to produce useful outcomes while saving time that would be occupied by tedious tasks.
Of course, in today's world that is all rather absurd.
Nano is just a nice tiny text editor. Maybe a bit unforgiving, but demonstrates clearly that an ASCII text editor can do a heck of a lot (or is it Unicode these days?).
Nano does look a lot like my early Wordstar. I liked Wordstar. Vim always makes me worry that it is going to do something unexpected.
Perhaps the sharpest programmer and all round clever guy I ever met did exactly that. He was working on radar systems when I got to know him. For him there was not much difference between a game and a radar system a lot of concepts apply to both radar systems and games, whether it be code design and organization, optimization, the maths involved and so on.
I can understand those guys banning games, after all with such enthusiastic and stimulated students tenaciously honing their skills on the games that motivate them the old computer systems would soon grind to a halt. But as you see, by doing so they have just killed all that stimulation and motivation and done their students a disservice.
But I still have doubts about games being a good thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamification_of_learning
[video=vimeo;85625959]
One might even move to Macao as it has overtaken Las Vegas as the world's gambling capital.