It is possible to adapt fsrw or sdfat to mmc. I haven't done this yet because my reading of the spec says
you need to start the card up in a slower frequency mode, and this complicates things. It's probably not
*really* needed for *most* cards, so just changing a few parameters here and there will probably get it
to work on *most* cards, but I hate to make something that just "sorta" works.
So please, try to stick to secure digital; with 2G cards at $20, it's not that big of a deal, I think.
I worked out an algorithm for drawing polygons very quickly - you could use it for this. I'm about to go on a trip so it will be a while before I can code the Propeller version, but I proved the algorithm draws correctly by coding it in a C# program. The idea is that if you know where the leading and trailing edge of each polygon intersects a scanline, you can draw the polygon by filling in the pixels between the enter and the exit. You go scanline by scanline and whenever the Y value of the scanline is equal to the top point of one edge of a polygon, you "activate" that edge. When you activate an edge, you pre-calculate, one time, a fixed-point fractional value which describes how far left or right the edge moves for every 1 pixel increase in the Y value of the scanline (delta_X). Starting with the initial vertex, you increment the X value left or right by this fraction. Thus if you know where in the X axis an edge intersected the scanline at Y, the X location of the intersection for the next scanline (at Y+1) is simple X + delta_X.
At the beginning of each scanline, you only need to figure out which edges to activate or deactivate, and getting the new X intersect for an active edge requires only a simple fixed-point addition to its last X intersect. It should be quite fast.
Sorry to be sorry. I SHOULD have lots of time to follow this amazing chip. But that time flies like an arrow - and not towards me. So I am immensely grateful to be able to lurk, having a big grin on my face. Hope, hope, hope to get more time soon. The Prop has made me impatient. But that is a good feeling.
I have shown this to computeresque guys. "So what?" is their reaction. I showed the Protoboard. "This is what does it. No graphics card. Just the chip" - The answer: "WHAT!!??" was very satisfying.
nope, was pixel streaming for now, it will eventually be a 3D renderer, at the moment it's a compressed screen display, and could be used for a graphical text adventure, with 240x160 at the top and a text section at the bottom of the screen.
It was designed as a testbed for the compressed tv display, ready for my 3D renderer, but I decided to play a movie with it, to see how fast FSRW could stream the image to it. seems good enough doesn't it. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cheers,
Baggers.
On a side note, I fixed the timing issues with the frame swap, now I'm back to just two frame buffers [noparse]:)[/noparse] of 240x160x8bit in memory at once lol, and I'm quite happy with the result.
I've uploaded em, sorry I've not increased the version number [noparse]:)[/noparse] my bad lol. but I wanna go watch a movie and relax, no not this movie, seen it a couple of times already now lol.
You are just amazing! who else would make something as complex as this? Well I'll hope that soon this will take up less memory·be renderred in 3D·and let you roam it with a joystick! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
Yes it runs but there are noticeable differences in colour between the two versions.
On NTSC vers the the entrance to the Y is blue tones on the PAL vers it is Pink tones.
Other than that it is fine, well done.
Regards,
Coley
Here's a tip for translating the colors all at once (just an idea, I've been playing with it only on NTSC): change the color burst color chroma·in sync colors, it's probably %1000_1_010, try different values for it, eg. %0000_1_010 ...
I'm not sure if it'd work as I'm not exactly sure why the colors are different on PAL.
ok, thanks for the tips guys.
the colour burst values are different for pal and ntsc in parallax's tv.spin. $8A and $AA
I'll have a play and get them matched [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Interesting that you should say your working on a 3D renderer, as it's a topic that interests me also. In fact I have a design for, and plan to, build my own 3D renderer using the Propeller also.
The difference I can see there being between mine and yours is that mine will support textures. However, mine will also require a coprocessor or two (Likely a dsPIC) since the Propeller doesn't have hardware multiplication or division and as such texture mapping would be slow!
Of course, when the next model propeller comes out (The one which runs at 160MHz) I will of course move texture mapping to the prop - and increase the number of TMUs!
An interesting feature of my design is that it will only be able to map textures to quads - but draw triangles. This is, of course, all to do with the many optimizations i'll be implementing.
Are you rendering the animation into the Pchip ? Or... are you playing an AVI file from the card ??
Congratulations ..!!!! you did a very very good job !!!....incredible !!!
PS: I'm doing some "similar", but with an external LED screen.....(only playing a video file)...so I think that you get the data into the Pchip video buffer memory from the SD, and you're using your 256 color dirver to show that in TV...is this correct ?
Owens, Good luck, it'll be nice to see it finished, but I'm doing it purely from Prop, so others can use/see it in action, not everyone will have your setup, so I guess your writing yours for yourself only?
Bob, you really are a mad scientist lol, it's not going to be able to ray-cast ever, because the screen display is 240x160 8bit, that's one byte per pixel, so total = 240*160 = 38400 bytes just to have the image in memory, which one image alone is more memory than the prop can handle, ( let alone having two of them, or three like in the first version I released ) which is why I made a compressed display driver, so that I could make a filled poly renderer with > 3 colours [noparse];)[/noparse]
BTX, it's a large file ( ~19.5MB ) of still compressed images, each image compresses to 6K or less, so to try and keep the render timing constant, I padded each image to 6K so that it didn't have to find a frame to seek to, or have to load a bit to find frame size to load etc.
so it's like playing an AVI, but it's main purpose is for 3D flat poly rendering.
so once loaded the display driver handles showing the list, so the frame or two that it takes to load in the 6KB as it doesn't seem to be constant [noparse]:([/noparse] I will be using the props other two cogs + spin to generate the display list for my 3D engine.
So yes, I'm using a modified 256 colour driver, as it displays compressed data, since the buffer would fill the prop's RAM.
Hope this is clear enough [noparse];)[/noparse]
if not let me know, and I'll elaborate.
also, i had it displaying a still image, then I thought with having lots of cogs left, I could store lots of frames and see if it plays an anim, which it did quite pleasantly [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I might try and code a cartoony type of image next, see how that goes [noparse]:)[/noparse] what do you recon peeps? or should I just go for the poly engine?
I wonder if anyone from Parallax has seen it or is going to comment on it?
Thanks so much Baggers for your explanation, it is very clear..but perhaps a bit 'complicated' for my mind.
I'm also reading a large file, but not compressed..[noparse]:([/noparse], I'm testing now with a ~69Mb file in the card, for only 4:24min of video at only 15fps..the data is being send to a LED display...so I look your code like a possibilty for me to get a "monitor" of my video, (near my controller box) while it is being show in the LED screen.
I thought that it could be impossible...but did it !!!
Excellent your work again !! ..:-)
PS: I'm sure someone of parallax will give you the "Honor medal".. [noparse]:)[/noparse] (not only to comment on it )
aaaggghh, now i have to get an SD port/card, i know mouser.com has them dirt cheap, alot of the time better than digikey (you should see the print copy!) i can't wait to see this!!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Definetly a E3 (Electronics Engineer Extrodinare!)
"I laugh in the face of imposible,... not because i know it all, ... but because I don't know well enough!"
Thanks Baggers I'll post it sure ! a video of the system working when I get it ready...I still need a few days more to get only a piece of this...then perhaps a couple of months to get all finished... will be a big screen divided in 32 pieces, I will be assembling in next days only 12 pieces for test in a theatre.
I have the USBWiz,not the direct one,and this can use USB memory dongles,as well as all sorts of things since the two USB locations are HOST rather than slave!
means a USB mouse and keyboard could be used as WELL as a SD card....it talks Rs232/SPI/IC2,CAN one hang it on your toy? with mods?
Heya. I know you will all spit at me, but im a PIC guy at the mo...
I just saw Bagger's demo and i NEED to swap to the Prop chip now.
I want to work on some hardcore 3D stuff, check out my 3D with a PIC to see what i've done so far, www.pyrofersprojects.com
Ive written in C for the pic, so would need some help to port to the prop.
Anyway, I cant wait to get a prop working now.
My display will probably be a nokia 6100 spi LCD, so ill be knocking the gfx data out over SPI. Any suggestions on the smallest and most basic Prop setup to get it working?
What are your construction skills? What do you need for I/O other than the LCD?
The Spin Stamp is pretty tiny and has the crystal and 3.3V regulator on the 24-pin substrate, but it has only 16 I/O pins available
The PropUSB is a bit bigger and includes access to all I/O pins and a USB adapter on the 40-pin substrate.
If you want a permanent setup, you probably should get a Protoboard. That way, you can mount any connectors you need and an SD card socket as well. Later, if you want to work with VGA and a keyboard and mouse, you can attach the extra connectors.
cocokiwi,
cheers for the USBWiz info, I've just ordered one [noparse]:)[/noparse] might give that a shot.
have you hooked one up to your prop yet?
Pyrofer [noparse]:)[/noparse] hi
welcome to the forum.
get a prop, you'll enjoy it, I did, I don't think my old pic's will get a look in again [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Baggers, do you think you might use the·hi color NTSC driver with this project when it's finished? It would make the demo look better you know? some of the solid colors are too wierd.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and
Welcome to the forum! I TOLD you guys you would love this chip!
Wait until you start playing with it and you see what I've been raving about. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Oldbitcollector
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The comments and code above are proof that a million monkeys with a million propeller chips *could* write Shakespeare!
Baggers said...
cocokiwi,
cheers for the USBWiz info, I've just ordered one [noparse]:)[/noparse] might give that a shot.
have you hooked one up to your prop yet?
Pyrofer [noparse]:)[/noparse] hi
welcome to the forum.
get a prop, you'll enjoy it, I did, I don't think my old pic's will get a look in again [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Baggers
·No! Have not had time YET! have been working 12hr shifts...BUT! i,m working on a proboard with a STAMP Bs-2 px , Pchip and a Daughterboard.
Comments
you need to start the card up in a slower frequency mode, and this complicates things. It's probably not
*really* needed for *most* cards, so just changing a few parameters here and there will probably get it
to work on *most* cards, but I hate to make something that just "sorta" works.
So please, try to stick to secure digital; with 2G cards at $20, it's not that big of a deal, I think.
At the beginning of each scanline, you only need to figure out which edges to activate or deactivate, and getting the new X intersect for an active edge requires only a simple fixed-point addition to its last X intersect. It should be quite fast.
I have shown this to computeresque guys. "So what?" is their reaction. I showed the Protoboard. "This is what does it. No graphics card. Just the chip" - The answer: "WHAT!!??" was very satisfying.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and
Don't forget it!
http://raydillon.com/Images/Illustration/GameArt/WildIsle/WildIsle-Ink-ScientistClose.jpg
·
It was designed as a testbed for the compressed tv display, ready for my 3D renderer, but I decided to play a movie with it, to see how fast FSRW could stream the image to it. seems good enough doesn't it. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cheers,
Baggers.
On a side note, I fixed the timing issues with the frame swap, now I'm back to just two frame buffers [noparse]:)[/noparse] of 240x160x8bit in memory at once lol, and I'm quite happy with the result.
I've uploaded em, sorry I've not increased the version number [noparse]:)[/noparse] my bad lol. but I wanna go watch a movie and relax, no not this movie, seen it a couple of times already now lol.
let me know if this fixes it for you Coley.
Post Edited (Baggers) : 6/9/2007 7:09:49 PM GMT
Yes it runs but there are noticeable differences in colour between the two versions.
On NTSC vers the the entrance to the Y is blue tones on the PAL vers it is Pink tones.
Other than that it is fine, well done.
Regards,
Coley
I'm not sure if it'd work as I'm not exactly sure why the colors are different on PAL.
the colour burst values are different for pal and ntsc in parallax's tv.spin. $8A and $AA
I'll have a play and get them matched [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cheers again for the feedback,
Baggers,
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Interesting that you should say your working on a 3D renderer, as it's a topic that interests me also. In fact I have a design for, and plan to, build my own 3D renderer using the Propeller also.
The difference I can see there being between mine and yours is that mine will support textures. However, mine will also require a coprocessor or two (Likely a dsPIC) since the Propeller doesn't have hardware multiplication or division and as such texture mapping would be slow!
Of course, when the next model propeller comes out (The one which runs at 160MHz) I will of course move texture mapping to the prop - and increase the number of TMUs!
An interesting feature of my design is that it will only be able to map textures to quads - but draw triangles. This is, of course, all to do with the many optimizations i'll be implementing.
But yes, 3D is a very interesting topic!
Owen
Baggers,is it possible that you can implement raycasted lighting and 10 bit color?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and
Don't forget it!
http://raydillon.com/Images/Illustration/GameArt/WildIsle/WildIsle-Ink-ScientistClose.jpg
·
Let me know if I understood correct.
Are you rendering the animation into the Pchip ? Or... are you playing an AVI file from the card ??
Congratulations ..!!!! you did a very very good job !!!....incredible !!!
PS: I'm doing some "similar", but with an external LED screen.....(only playing a video file)...so I think that you get the data into the Pchip video buffer memory from the SD, and you're using your 256 color dirver to show that in TV...is this correct ?
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Regards.
Alberto.
Bob, you really are a mad scientist lol, it's not going to be able to ray-cast ever, because the screen display is 240x160 8bit, that's one byte per pixel, so total = 240*160 = 38400 bytes just to have the image in memory, which one image alone is more memory than the prop can handle, ( let alone having two of them, or three like in the first version I released ) which is why I made a compressed display driver, so that I could make a filled poly renderer with > 3 colours [noparse];)[/noparse]
BTX, it's a large file ( ~19.5MB ) of still compressed images, each image compresses to 6K or less, so to try and keep the render timing constant, I padded each image to 6K so that it didn't have to find a frame to seek to, or have to load a bit to find frame size to load etc.
so it's like playing an AVI, but it's main purpose is for 3D flat poly rendering.
so once loaded the display driver handles showing the list, so the frame or two that it takes to load in the 6KB as it doesn't seem to be constant [noparse]:([/noparse] I will be using the props other two cogs + spin to generate the display list for my 3D engine.
So yes, I'm using a modified 256 colour driver, as it displays compressed data, since the buffer would fill the prop's RAM.
Hope this is clear enough [noparse];)[/noparse]
if not let me know, and I'll elaborate.
also, i had it displaying a still image, then I thought with having lots of cogs left, I could store lots of frames and see if it plays an anim, which it did quite pleasantly [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I might try and code a cartoony type of image next, see how that goes [noparse]:)[/noparse] what do you recon peeps? or should I just go for the poly engine?
I wonder if anyone from Parallax has seen it or is going to comment on it?
Baggers.
I'm also reading a large file, but not compressed..[noparse]:([/noparse], I'm testing now with a ~69Mb file in the card, for only 4:24min of video at only 15fps..the data is being send to a LED display...so I look your code like a possibilty for me to get a "monitor" of my video, (near my controller box) while it is being show in the LED screen.
I thought that it could be impossible...but did it !!!
Excellent your work again !! ..:-)
PS: I'm sure someone of parallax will give you the "Honor medal".. [noparse]:)[/noparse] (not only to comment on it )
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
I look forward to seeing your prop video too [noparse]:)[/noparse] don't forget to post it.
Cheers,
Baggers.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Definetly a E3 (Electronics Engineer Extrodinare!)
"I laugh in the face of imposible,... not because i know it all, ... but because I don't know well enough!"
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
I bought some of "SCDB1A0102" in Mouser, they are so good and costs only about $ 5.76 each !!
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Regards.
Alberto.
means a USB mouse and keyboard could be used as WELL as a SD card....it talks Rs232/SPI/IC2,CAN one hang it on your toy? with mods?
cheers Dennis
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http://people.delphiforums.com/cocokiwi/Image/picture.jpg
I just saw Bagger's demo and i NEED to swap to the Prop chip now.
I want to work on some hardcore 3D stuff, check out my 3D with a PIC to see what i've done so far,
www.pyrofersprojects.com
Ive written in C for the pic, so would need some help to port to the prop.
Anyway, I cant wait to get a prop working now.
My display will probably be a nokia 6100 spi LCD, so ill be knocking the gfx data out over SPI. Any suggestions on the smallest and most basic Prop setup to get it working?
The Spin Stamp is pretty tiny and has the crystal and 3.3V regulator on the 24-pin substrate, but it has only 16 I/O pins available
The PropUSB is a bit bigger and includes access to all I/O pins and a USB adapter on the 40-pin substrate.
If you want a permanent setup, you probably should get a Protoboard. That way, you can mount any connectors you need and an SD card socket as well. Later, if you want to work with VGA and a keyboard and mouse, you can attach the extra connectors.
cheers for the USBWiz info, I've just ordered one [noparse]:)[/noparse] might give that a shot.
have you hooked one up to your prop yet?
Pyrofer [noparse]:)[/noparse] hi
welcome to the forum.
get a prop, you'll enjoy it, I did, I don't think my old pic's will get a look in again [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Baggers
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and
Don't forget it!
http://raydillon.com/Images/Illustration/GameArt/WildIsle/WildIsle-Ink-ScientistClose.jpg
·
Welcome to the forum! I TOLD you guys you would love this chip!
Wait until you start playing with it and you see what I've been raving about. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Oldbitcollector
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The comments and code above are proof that a million monkeys with a million propeller chips *could* write Shakespeare!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
http://people.delphiforums.com/cocokiwi/Image/picture.jpg