Alberto,
With every post this is getting better and better ... do you eventually plan to market a version of this ...
Has it lived up to your expectations ? Have you had any unexpected results or issues that you didn't expect ..?
Basically what I am asking - can you give the background to the project ... and its dev. -
QuattroRS4
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ 'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Don't know if it has been mentioned yet. When the videos are run, is it the Prop master that partitions the 'pixel information' to the slaves, or is that coming from a PC, or what?
Other than not being hi-res, color, intensity and motion seems to rather well handled. How many levels of intensity can the LED modules provide?
It seems that the LED size compared to the 'pixel' spacing is fairly small, yet from a distance the effect is quite good.
Harley,
He's using Ti chips (TLC5940) that give 4096 levels -- 12 bits for R,G and B.
I wonder what kind of LED has three separate inputs. (Answer a tricolor RGB LED like this: http://www.superbrightleds.com/TriColor%20LED.htm·)
This is NOT a·pocket change DIY project! Around here, people would rip it apart to recycle the copper.
Fred
Post Edited (Fred Hawkins) : 7/22/2007 8:25:56 PM GMT
BTX,I wonder what the RGB LED module looks like, schematically. I looked through this thread, but didn't notice a part#. Is it commercially available?
On a bit of a tangent, recently took this picture of our passion flowers. This afternoon, I noticed it looked like a twin-Prop. Sorry if this off-topic; but is one neat piece of nature. I have a two-Prop pcb, but this just 'hit' me today about 2 Props relooking at some pics.
@Fred
I'm afraid that pretty girls could opaque the curtain.... specially our "Argentinas girls"
@QuattroRS4
At this momment it is only for rent, not for sale. We would need to do a lot of improvements for sale some of this, I mean in the mechanicall structure.
Really I was very surprised, because until now, I've not found any unexpected problems....talking about the design..·This fulls all my expectations.
We still have a lot of assembly problems, but it was in my calculus. Since we had a date to get it finished, and because this, I must change many things at run time, somethings are not like I want...that's so bad because we cannot finished it at time, and we have that consequences now.
@Harley This is only running with PROPELLERS, no PC, nothing more. Somethings "Fred" answer to you yet.
Harley said... BTX,I wonder what the RGB LED module looks like, schematically. I looked through this thread, but didn't notice a part#. Is it commercially available?
Sorry, I don't understand exactly what you mean with this, but I'll try to answer. LEDs are RGB...any... Complete module and circuit is my design...you can't found this in any place. It is not commercially available.
Don't know if it has been mentioned yet. When the videos are run, is it the Prop master that partitions the 'pixel information' to the slaves, or is that coming from a PC, or what?
A May-ish post said the data is coming off an SD card. So it's probably not a real time feed. The same message outline the master's routines; it
doesn't seem that parsing a video stream is one of them.
I know about your suggest.... you're right, but market here is very hard...they only want "lower prices"....we deal directly with show producers managers. They have·a lot of that "smiles" under their cars....... not me ...but I never lose hopes...maybe after get this work in a big music show I could get some of them.·
Yes it is an AVI file, I'm waiting to finish assembly it at all,· to begin with the "real time" video controller...
Harley said...
On a bit of a tangent, recently took this picture of our passion flowers. This afternoon, I noticed it looked like a twin-Prop. Sorry if this off-topic; but is one neat piece of nature. I have a two-Prop pcb, but this just 'hit' me today about 2 Props relooking at some pics.
Not to take away from Alberto's fantastic project, but·the passion flower is my favorite flower. I always enjoy looking at the open masonry wall at my parent's house that is covered in passion flower vines with orchids nestled in some of the open parts of the wall. The passion flower I am familiar with, the main petals are alternating purple and green (cover layer (outer most) is green and the inner layer is purple). I miss the wide variety of plants subtropical regions can support.
Paul B said...
Not to take away from Alberto's fantastic project, but·the passion flower is my favorite flower. I always enjoy looking at the open masonry wall at my parent's house that is covered in passion flower vines with orchids nestled in some of the open parts of the wall. The passion flower I am familiar with, the main petals are alternating purple and green (cover layer (outer most) is green and the inner layer is purple). I miss the wide variety of plants subtropical regions can support.
Thanks, Paul. Good to know someone appreciates this detail of nature. Quite an astonishing and differences of details in that flower. Square (well nearly) stems on some portions of the vine. Am amazed it can withstand the freezing of Oregon winters. Don't think orchids would survive them, though.
When I saw our first flowers blossom, I took some close-ups; couldn't believe the differences in the details the passion flower has. Nothing to do with the Propeller, but a very interesting side-diversion.
Apologies, Alberto, if this is too off topic for this thread. Maybe you could incorporate some of nature into your images also. Don't know if that would 'offend' the intended viewers of your displayed images.
On-topic query to Alberto: what sort of material is your 'curtain' made of? None of the pictures seemed to show that detail. Like is it totally flexible or rigid? Does the RGB LED have just a resistor with each of R,G,B LEDs? Any schematic of the module you could provide, or is this confidential? Sorry, I have to resist asking my usual 'ton of questions'.
Alberto,
In the same vein, what are the 8 pin chips on the slave boards? My guess is that they send the data to the TLC5940's which are located on the curtain strips.
Also, are the 5940's arranged to power 4 x 4 or a linear 16 LEDs?
If you are only concerned with driving motors in one direction, and you are going to put extra drivers on the output so you can drive the amount of current needed for the motors. Most people desire bi-directional control which requires an H-bridge. You could however use the chip as the PWM input to a H-bridge which has a PWM stage as a set it and forget it type of drive control.
I will put your flower image in the curtain to see how is it ...but I think could be better to wait for the finished curtain to apreciate it at all...
no problems ...only to see that, but it is not very usefull for "shows" you know... Would be amazing a video of it in high speed !!
The LED's have not·resistors, it is not nescesary, the TLC's controlls the LED current internally, and more...you can make a short-circuit in the LEDs and the TLC's will limit the internal current as you choose it.
@Harley and @Fred
The schematics of the boards, and somethings more, are strictly confidential...sorry, there are many people from my country, that want to do some similar, and could be very competitive with us....considering that we are the "first" here...I was talking too much about this, please understand me.
The intention of the thread is to demonstrate, that is posible and it works, a multi propeller board at a relative high speed, reading data from a SD card with Rokicki's code (Who is great !!!). Also, to show a relative important aplication of the propeller (Who we LOVE !!)
Thanks so much all again.... I will post early, some code for master-slave control, reading data from the SD.
Thank you for your remarks. I understand your situation with the confidentiality of your design. I downloaded the LED driver data sheet and that explains much re: the RGB LEDs. One must stay competitive, for sure. Now understand why some details were not being presented.
Re: flower image on partial 'curtain', it should appear better if larger and on the full curtain, higher resolution in effect.
It's almost like the TLC5940s were designed for your application. Probably highly simplified the overall design.
Way to go.
Hi Harley.
Yes the TLC's are great !! but there are more similars, anothers chips that looks very good (I think better)·are the MAX6974/6975, take a look at those in MAXIM website.
how many colors are the RGB LEDs able to use with your program? and how many did you use in that program?··· It feels very abstract yet, I'm amazed you did that. Great work!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and
Harley,
This display depends upon apparent movement -- your flower would look good as a panned image but once you stop the movement, the image would disintegrate. On the other hand, I do think you ought to give it to Parallax for their wallpaper collection.
Alberto,
I understand and will settle for the various documentation from TI. Their evaluation board doc seems to answer most of my questions. The rest I will guess.
Hi Fred.
Haha, no guess, please to deduce, it is not so hard.... with "Propeller"...Life is more easy !!
Do you really like to try some similar ?... if so, my schematics will be not usefull for you...only the "ideas"....that is what I think, when I try to do something. That's cheapest !!
Something to bear in mind -- just because you're using fiber does not mean your link is immune to EMI. Somehow everyone forgets the fiber receivers themselves are highly susceptible -- the HFBR-2528 for example is specified to operate cleanly only up to 7V/m. Don't be bashful -- cover up everything but the minimum possible hole with copper and solder it firmly to the local ground plane. No worries if its ugly -- they'll make more!
By the way, for level translation of I2C consider the excellent dual I2C buffer ICs from TI: PCA9306. Another good chip (available from multiple vendors) is the P82B96 -- I've used this to implement I2C extenders over fiber in an extraordinarily severe EMI environment (>>250V/m, UHF TV broadcast). That job had some challenging environmental aspects as well; the BS2 pulled through consistently intact. I'll let you all know how the Propellor does.
Also, for multi-bit level translation consider the SN74LVC8T245 and its brethren.
Hello All. I have been lurking for a while but thought I would post some praise and couple of comments.
Alberto: Awesome project!! You have made a lot of progress in a short amount of time. Great job..
A little background.
I used to be a lighting designer. I have designed many big nite-clubs and have done lots of concerts, professional laser display,sound, pyro...
Now if I may be so bold as to make some suggestions.
Speaking as an LD if I were to hire or purchase your system I only see one major thing missing: DMX-512 support. As the guy in front of the console I like to have complete control over what is going on, on stage.
From what I have read in this post my guess would be the system works like this.
Some pc app to down sample video or images --- write to the cf card-- the master prop reads card -- you use the keyboard for calling up video files???
If you have a spare cog on the master prop you could easily implement DMX with just one more 8 pin ic. This would allow you to call up the stored images in what ever sequence that you would like from a lighting console.
It would also allow you to build some built-in effects that could be generated on the fly:
Master DIM
Strobe
Strobe colors
color rainbows / chases
All on / off
All color mixing rgb...
I could go on and on....
The other thing that might be a big problem if you are doing video/film is the lack of gen-lock. You are going to have a bunch of angry directors if all the images from your screen are flickering.
Any way just some thoughts... Still an amazing project! Good Luck!
I'm not using fiber in this case, but thanks so much for your comments and suggests !!!!!
@Chad. Thank·so much·!!
Chad said... Speaking as an LD if I were to hire or purchase your system I only see one major thing missing: DMX-512 support.
You're right, I think to controll the "start" of the videos with DMX, but people here, is asking for SMPTE, so maybe the next step is to do that.
Also, the "REAL TIME" video controller, to forget the manual operation of it.
Le me tell you, that unless here, nobody controlls this things·by DMX, also the automated scenarys they never wont to controll it by DMX, only lighting systems, and maybe some "smoke machines" no more. Although I would like to get fades or some special effects DMX controlled too.
For now, the operation will be manual with a operator in the keyboard, the box has also all effects that you comment, but by the keyb too.
Take in care that I began this in January...please !! you're poor than managers asking more and more !! hahahaha.
Flickering is not visible in "alive" video (maybe in YouTube....I took those videos with a cheap digital photo camera), that test was passed by technicall directors of the shows, who will rent this.
Same, I will consider very close all you suggest, Thanks so much for them !!!!!!
Hi all !!
I'm very concerned, because for special request from a investor, I must delete all videos in YouTube about this LED curtain.
I·hope, that in a close future, we can upload a new web-site about this...of course with some new videos included.
Excuse me for the momment...same, I will post early the code that I promised before, ....of course not the "curtain code".
Thanks so much.
Parallax chip or not, it was your vision and hard work that got you where you are present. Be sure to only let investors see the curtain and not let them bring a team of engineers to see the details behind the curtain and possibly steal your dream and hard work from you. I think it's safe to say that we all wish you the best of luck.
Comments
Each slave controls 72 TLCs, by 16 pixels each = 1152 => 1152/3 = 384 pixels. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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Regards.
Alberto.
More videos (one is Longer).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IfJC_Ka9kE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLLjZym8TnI
The picture it's me, with·"one modul" .
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Regards.
Alberto.
Envio editado por (BTX) : 7/22/2007 2:15:50 PM GMT
With every post this is getting better and better ... do you eventually plan to market a version of this ...
Has it lived up to your expectations ? Have you had any unexpected results or issues that you didn't expect ..?
Basically what I am asking - can you give the background to the project ... and its dev. -
QuattroRS4
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Don't know if it has been mentioned yet. When the videos are run, is it the Prop master that partitions the 'pixel information' to the slaves, or is that coming from a PC, or what?
Other than not being hi-res, color, intensity and motion seems to rather well handled. How many levels of intensity can the LED modules provide?
It seems that the LED size compared to the 'pixel' spacing is fairly small, yet from a distance the effect is quite good.
Super job....
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
He's using Ti chips (TLC5940) that give 4096 levels -- 12 bits for R,G and B.
I wonder what kind of LED has three separate inputs. (Answer a tricolor RGB LED like this: http://www.superbrightleds.com/TriColor%20LED.htm·)
This is NOT a·pocket change DIY project! Around here, people would rip it apart to recycle the copper.
Fred
Post Edited (Fred Hawkins) : 7/22/2007 8:25:56 PM GMT
BTX,I wonder what the RGB LED module looks like, schematically. I looked through this thread, but didn't notice a part#. Is it commercially available?
On a bit of a tangent, recently took this picture of our passion flowers. This afternoon, I noticed it looked like a twin-Prop. Sorry if this off-topic; but is one neat piece of nature. I have a two-Prop pcb, but this just 'hit' me today about 2 Props relooking at some pics.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
@Fred
I'm afraid that pretty girls could opaque the curtain....
@QuattroRS4
At this momment it is only for rent, not for sale. We would need to do a lot of improvements for sale some of this, I mean in the mechanicall structure.
Really I was very surprised, because until now, I've not found any unexpected problems....talking about the design..·This fulls all my expectations.
We still have a lot of assembly problems, but it was in my calculus. Since we had a date to get it finished, and because this, I must change many things at run time, somethings are not like I want...that's so bad because we cannot finished it at time, and we have that consequences now.
@Harley
This is only running with PROPELLERS, no PC, nothing more.
Somethings "Fred" answer to you yet.
Sorry, I don't understand exactly what you mean with this, but I'll try to answer.
LEDs are RGB...any...
Complete module and circuit is my design...you can't found this in any place. It is not commercially available.
THANKS SO MUCH ALL for your comments !!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
doesn't seem that parsing a video stream is one of them.
Are you reading an avi file from the sd card?
I know about your suggest.... you're right, but market here is very hard...they only want "lower prices"....we deal directly with show producers managers. They have·a lot of that "smiles" under their cars....... not me
Yes it is an AVI file, I'm waiting to finish assembly it at all,· to begin with the "real time" video controller...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Media player image type. (More than 2 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1eaZDeYiE
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Regards.
Alberto.
Thanks, Paul. Good to know someone appreciates this detail of nature. Quite an astonishing and differences of details in that flower. Square (well nearly) stems on some portions of the vine. Am amazed it can withstand the freezing of Oregon winters. Don't think orchids would survive them, though.
When I saw our first flowers blossom, I took some close-ups; couldn't believe the differences in the details the passion flower has. Nothing to do with the Propeller, but a very interesting side-diversion.
Apologies, Alberto, if this is too off topic for this thread. Maybe you could incorporate some of nature into your images also. Don't know if that would 'offend' the intended viewers of your displayed images.
On-topic query to Alberto: what sort of material is your 'curtain' made of? None of the pictures seemed to show that detail. Like is it totally flexible or rigid? Does the RGB LED have just a resistor with each of R,G,B LEDs? Any schematic of the module you could provide, or is this confidential? Sorry, I have to resist asking my usual 'ton of questions'.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
In the same vein, what are the 8 pin chips on the slave boards? My guess is that they send the data to the TLC5940's which are located on the curtain strips.
Also, are the 5940's arranged to power 4 x 4 or a linear 16 LEDs?
Fred
I woke this morning wondering if this TI chip TLC5940 could be used for pwm motor control. (16 motors, 12 bit resolution.) What do you think?
Fred
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
@Baggers
@Harley.
I will put your flower image in the curtain to see how is it ...but I think could be better to wait for the finished curtain to apreciate it at all...
no problems ...only to see that, but it is not very usefull for "shows" you know... Would be amazing a video of it in high speed !!
The LED's have not·resistors, it is not nescesary, the TLC's controlls the LED current internally, and more...you can make a short-circuit in the LEDs and the TLC's will limit the internal current as you choose it.
@Harley and @Fred
The schematics of the boards, and somethings more, are strictly confidential...sorry, there are many people from my country, that want to do some similar, and could be very competitive with us....considering that we are the "first" here...I was talking too much about this, please understand me.
The intention of the thread is to demonstrate, that is posible and it works, a multi propeller board at a relative high speed, reading data from a SD card with Rokicki's code (Who is great !!!). Also, to show a relative important aplication of the propeller (Who we LOVE !!)
Thanks so much all again.... I will post early, some code for master-slave control, reading data from the SD.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
Thank you for your remarks. I understand your situation with the confidentiality of your design. I downloaded the LED driver data sheet and that explains much re: the RGB LEDs. One must stay competitive, for sure. Now understand why some details were not being presented.
Re: flower image on partial 'curtain', it should appear better if larger and on the full curtain, higher resolution in effect.
It's almost like the TLC5940s were designed for your application. Probably highly simplified the overall design.
Way to go.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
Yes the TLC's are great !! but there are more similars, anothers chips that looks very good (I think better)·are the MAX6974/6975, take a look at those in MAXIM website.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and
Don't forget it!
http://raydillon.com/Images/Illustration/GameArt/WildIsle/WildIsle-Ink-ScientistClose.jpg
·
I used 24 bit RGB color, you can get until 16_777_216 differents colors.
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Regards.
Alberto.
This display depends upon apparent movement -- your flower would look good as a panned image but once you stop the movement, the image would disintegrate. On the other hand, I do think you ought to give it to Parallax for their wallpaper collection.
Alberto,
I understand and will settle for the various documentation from TI. Their evaluation board doc seems to answer most of my questions. The rest I will guess.
from the cheap seats,
Fred
Haha, no guess, please to deduce, it is not so hard.... with "Propeller"...Life is more easy !!
Do you really like to try some similar ?... if so, my schematics will be not usefull for you...only the "ideas"....that is what I think, when I try to do something. That's cheapest !!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
By the way, for level translation of I2C consider the excellent dual I2C buffer ICs from TI: PCA9306. Another good chip (available from multiple vendors) is the P82B96 -- I've used this to implement I2C extenders over fiber in an extraordinarily severe EMI environment (>>250V/m, UHF TV broadcast). That job had some challenging environmental aspects as well; the BS2 pulled through consistently intact. I'll let you all know how the Propellor does.
Also, for multi-bit level translation consider the SN74LVC8T245 and its brethren.
V/R
Mike
Alberto: Awesome project!! You have made a lot of progress in a short amount of time. Great job..
A little background.
I used to be a lighting designer. I have designed many big nite-clubs and have done lots of concerts, professional laser display,sound, pyro...
Now if I may be so bold as to make some suggestions.
Speaking as an LD if I were to hire or purchase your system I only see one major thing missing: DMX-512 support. As the guy in front of the console I like to have complete control over what is going on, on stage.
From what I have read in this post my guess would be the system works like this.
Some pc app to down sample video or images --- write to the cf card-- the master prop reads card -- you use the keyboard for calling up video files???
If you have a spare cog on the master prop you could easily implement DMX with just one more 8 pin ic. This would allow you to call up the stored images in what ever sequence that you would like from a lighting console.
It would also allow you to build some built-in effects that could be generated on the fly:
Master DIM
Strobe
Strobe colors
color rainbows / chases
All on / off
All color mixing rgb...
I could go on and on....
The other thing that might be a big problem if you are doing video/film is the lack of gen-lock. You are going to have a bunch of angry directors if all the images from your screen are flickering.
Any way just some thoughts... Still an amazing project! Good Luck!
Chad
@Mike.
I'm not using fiber in this case, but thanks so much for your comments and suggests !!!!!
@Chad. Thank·so much·!!
You're right, I think to controll the "start" of the videos with DMX, but people here, is asking for SMPTE, so maybe the next step is to do that.
Also, the "REAL TIME" video controller, to forget the manual operation of it.
Le me tell you, that unless here, nobody controlls this things·by DMX, also the automated scenarys they never wont to controll it by DMX, only lighting systems, and maybe some "smoke machines" no more. Although I would like to get fades or some special effects DMX controlled too.
For now, the operation will be manual with a operator in the keyboard, the box has also all effects that you comment, but by the keyb too.
Take in care that I began this in January...please !! you're poor than managers asking more and more !! hahahaha.
Flickering is not visible in "alive" video (maybe in YouTube....I took those videos with a cheap digital photo camera), that test was passed by technicall directors of the shows, who will rent this.
Same, I will consider very close all you suggest, Thanks so much for them !!!!!!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
I'm very concerned, because for special request from a investor, I must delete all videos in YouTube about this LED curtain.
I·hope, that in a close future, we can upload a new web-site about this...of course with some new videos included.
Excuse me for the momment...same, I will post early the code that I promised before, ....of course not the "curtain code".
Thanks so much.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Regards.
Alberto.
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E3 = Thought
http://folding.stanford.edu/·- Donating some CPU/GPU downtime just might lead to a cure for cancer! My team stats.