I'm so happy that you guys mentioned, and began to devolop SD card datalogging periph's!!! That is something I would like to add to my project at some point. Will you post code? What is the FAT file concern? Can the 16file deal be overcome?
ONly 1 thing... no file system. Now, if you create your own, it's not an issue... BUT...
If you want to be able to xfer the contents between PC's and the uController, you will need to either devise and read FAT 12/16/32 or HACK out a method
····· You CAN!·· Hence the Name!
···· the device is FAT compliant! Fat 12/16/32 support ···· open 4 files at the same time using file handles ···· fast startup and media reconnect ···· Fast file write average 60kbytes/Sec ···· no SD lic needed ···· 10 bit ADC ···· RTC (can add external Battery) ···· low power 10ma ···· 3 x power modes ···· ALL I/O 5v tolerant ···· only problem is if you put it in a PRODUCT..then you get LIC from MS ···· as the software is MS FAT copyright. But as far as experimenting no problem
···· this is a nice little module. $39.95 add $11.x· for Fedex ground...saelig only uses Fedex!
···· the device will read and write RAW data or MS fat format!
···· I have a new device coming that is not avalible in the US as yet,·I have pictures of it from Down under. ···· It is a USB to Ser device, very compact, small and plugs DIRECTLY into a development board,it is VERY ···· timely in that it has onboard 3.3v 100ma power as well as 5v 500ma which suits the Pchip well! ···· I had brought the mini USB device earlier and noted it,s benefit to the Stamp world,but there were things ····missing,like it did not have DTR or RTS/CTS.. ···· I directly got to chat via e-mail and phone to the designer of this device.this lead to this new version!
···· It has 5v two pins· 3.3 v 1 pin· TX RX·· 2 pins DTR·1 pin·RTS/CTS 1 pin and uses the same USB mini socket as the USBTOSER. ····All this is mounted to the USB socket... ····I like it because it is less prone to be pulled out if someone yanked a cable,rather the plug than the whole thing and is a quick ····· usable device when you need something NOW with the Pchip! and don't have a 3.3v supply handy. ····· The only thing one needs to do right now is make up the RES pulse transistor for· the DTR .RX and TX are 3.3v outputs. ····· Note the one with the connector(ala USBTOSER) that is for the LCD displays that he has also,1.5" more on this later!
The SD cards are really becoming the hacker's RAM of choice - huge capacity and lots of flexibilty.
I already have more SD cards than I use. Between buying a Camera, a PDA, a Chinese-English dictionary; I have been given smaller ones as promo and had to upgrade to bigger ones. My largest is one-half gigabyte.
Having only 4 files open on the smaller cards is not really an issue for microprocessor hobby work as usually one is enough [noparse][[/noparse]the whole SDcard].
The uALFAT-SD unit [noparse][[/noparse]www.ghielectronics.com] is one of the best for Parallax products.
Others may require actually writing driver code in C or some form of Assembler to interface as they have their own microprocessor they are touting.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Kramer said...
Having only 4 files open on the smaller cards is not really an issue for microprocessor hobby work as usually one is enough [noparse][[/noparse]the whole SDcard].
That wasn't 4 files in total, but 4 files at the same time...
That means you can have as many as you want(within the constraints of the FAT 16 system)
Constraints, as I learned them:
1. Max 65536 allocation-units, which is also the max total files allowed.
2. If using the 8.3 naming-conventions, you may have a total of 512 files in the root.
3. folders/catalogs are handled as files, and while they detract from the 512 max, they themselves does not have any max limit to files in them.
4. Long filenames should have been grounds for execution...
ANY file with a long name takes up AT LEAST 3 FAT slots(of the 512 if placed in the root)
1 for a 'shortened' name compatible with older DOS programs.
and 2 or more to fit the 'long' name, in chunks of 11 characters.
Where 'long' filenames are allowed, FAT16 is often called VFAT, but it's still the same mess...
Me?
I still can't figure out how M$ managed to get that patent as the FAT12/FAT16/FATWhatever is just a scaled up version of the disk formats used on CP/M machines...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Don't visit my new website...
cocokiwi said - "Note the one with the connector(ala USBTOSER) that is for the LCD displays that he has also,1.5" more on this later!"
I believe I have this 1.5" LCD display (the uLCD?). I just got it working with the Propeller chip tonight. It is VERY easy to setup as it is a 3.3 volt device, with a 5 volt backlight. I got all the functionality of text, circles, rects etc fairly quickly. For fun today I added a semaphore so I can have multiple cogs using the same display . I have one cog writing the value of a variable as it goes from 1 to 1000, while another draws lines and another draws rectangles. The display isn't lightning fast, but it is suprisingly quick. The uLCD II will probably be faster, especially for strings as it will accept an entire string with one call, rather than one char at a time.
From what I understand M$ does not patent the FAT file system (or if they do they do not enforce it).
But they do have a patent (and do·enforce it)·on use of long file names.
This is why my SD datalogger does not use long file names.
Bean.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Cheap 4-digit LED display with driver IC·www.hc4led.com
You just added that uALFAT unit to my buy list for the Propeller.
Obviously the Propeller was a paradigm shift, but with all the added resources in such a small packet it is a 'quantum leap' forward too. I can have a Video Terminal using rs-232 with mass storage on a SDcard.
It just keeps getting better.
I suspect the short names were a 'public domain legacy' from CPM.
Not having long names is really a small detail as they really seem to clutter my life more than help it.
They make searches have to work harder too.
Root and tree are central to good housekeeping.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Hey Kaos Kidd,
The uALFAT is excellent, but while eating dinner and walking the dog I realized that Jon feels it can all be done in software on the Propeller. It will take more pins [noparse][[/noparse]the uALFAT is SPI or IC2], but one $25 chip might do it all.
Should I really spend another $40 for this?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
The details of properly keeping a valid directory structure are complicated. Do you want to devote most of a Propellor's memory to doing this? Bean has chosen to take some shortcuts that are reasonable for many applications where the issue is to log data to a file and have it readable on a PC. The uALFAT is cheap enough, small enough, and takes little enough power that it will be better for almost any application to use that rather than do it on the Propellor.
Bean is correct, MS only owns the patent on long filenames, they tried to get more, but were rejected. However they try to imply through thier liscensing department that you need a liscense to use any form of FAT, they just dont have the goods to sue you unless you use long filenames in the manner they do. A few years ago they tried to extend the term by filing another application with minor modifications (I was the examiner), I used thier original against them and showed thier additions were too trival to warrent another patent and they (eventually) backed down.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
1+1=10
Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 5/15/2006 2:19:58 PM GMT
Kramer said...
Hey Kaos Kidd,
The uALFAT is excellent, but while eating dinner and walking the dog I realized that Jon feels it can all be done in software on the Propeller. It will take more pins [noparse][[/noparse]the uALFAT is SPI or IC2], but one $25 chip might do it all.
Should I really spend another $40 for this?
Kramer,
It has Rs232 also,you can hook it up with a USB to serial and talk to it with a Term program
SO! you can program the ASCII into the prop easly, one do it with a Serial LCD so why do one need to spend more?It has built in
firmware that allows one to use it this way,what more do you need,They will write you a new firmware @ $65 hr 25 hr,s MIN!(grin)
Yeah, I think both reasonable options, actually. To do basic reading and writing of files using 8.3 file names in the root directory really takes very little code, and the Propeller can do it pretty easy, I think, so if you want to build a bunch of cheap things, the Propeller alone is fine. But if you want to provide complex navigation of directory structures, and read/write multiple files concurrently, and stuff like that, and don't want to learn all the details, using a separate external chip should work fine too. It's all a question of tradeoffs.
Personally, for me, all I need is reading/writing 8.3 from the root, so I'm going to put together my own SW solution.
I am lagging behind all you folks, but finally going in the right direction! New development system is built and running fine so I get to play with my Propeller!
I have assembled my PropStick and successfully run "Alive!" and single / double led / cog programs. Works fine.
I cannot for the life of me get anything to output video (composite). It's a bit confusing with the various video / graphics "demos" - not really sure anymore which one should work! The "TV" versions (which won't compile without adding a parameter) and the "graphics" ones do nothing.
Now, I am not blaming anything or anyone - I would like to get a program that is KNOWN to work so I can determine if I have a hardware (PC Video card) issue. It used to work, but haven't used the composite in for a while.
I wired up the 3 resistor composite jack attached to pins 12,13,14 of the Prop - which program can I use as a "stake in the ground"?
Comments
-Parsko
···· the device is FAT compliant! Fat 12/16/32 support
···· open 4 files at the same time using file handles
···· fast startup and media reconnect
···· Fast file write average 60kbytes/Sec
···· no SD lic needed
···· 10 bit ADC
···· RTC (can add external Battery)
···· low power 10ma
···· 3 x power modes
···· ALL I/O 5v tolerant
···· only problem is if you put it in a PRODUCT..then you get LIC from MS
···· as the software is MS FAT copyright. But as far as experimenting no problem
···· this is a nice little module. $39.95 add $11.x· for Fedex ground...saelig only uses Fedex!
···· the device will read and write RAW data or MS fat format!
···· I have a new device coming that is not avalible in the US as yet,·I have pictures of it from Down under.
···· It is a USB to Ser device, very compact, small and plugs DIRECTLY into a development board,it is VERY
···· timely in that it has onboard 3.3v 100ma power as well as 5v 500ma which suits the Pchip well!
···· I had brought the mini USB device earlier and noted it,s benefit to the Stamp world,but there were things
··· ·missing,like it did not have DTR or RTS/CTS..
···· I directly got to chat via e-mail and phone to the designer of this device.this lead to this new version!
···· It has 5v two pins· 3.3 v 1 pin· TX RX·· 2 pins DTR·1 pin·RTS/CTS 1 pin and uses the same USB mini socket as the USBTOSER.
··· ·All this is mounted to the USB socket...
··· ·I like it because it is less prone to be pulled out if someone yanked a cable,rather the plug than the whole thing and is a quick
····· usable device when you need something NOW with the Pchip! and don't have a 3.3v supply handy.
····· The only thing one needs to do right now is make up the RES pulse transistor for· the DTR .RX and TX are 3.3v outputs.
····· Note the one with the connector(ala USBTOSER) that is for the LCD displays that he has also,1.5" more on this later!
··· Enjoy· Dennis
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
http://people.delphiforums.com/cocokiwi/Image/picture.jpg
Post Edited (cocokiwi) : 5/14/2006 7:30:30 AM GMT
I already have more SD cards than I use. Between buying a Camera, a PDA, a Chinese-English dictionary; I have been given smaller ones as promo and had to upgrade to bigger ones. My largest is one-half gigabyte.
Having only 4 files open on the smaller cards is not really an issue for microprocessor hobby work as usually one is enough [noparse][[/noparse]the whole SDcard].
The uALFAT-SD unit [noparse][[/noparse]www.ghielectronics.com] is one of the best for Parallax products.
Others may require actually writing driver code in C or some form of Assembler to interface as they have their own microprocessor they are touting.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
That wasn't 4 files in total, but 4 files at the same time...
That means you can have as many as you want(within the constraints of the FAT 16 system)
Constraints, as I learned them:
1. Max 65536 allocation-units, which is also the max total files allowed.
2. If using the 8.3 naming-conventions, you may have a total of 512 files in the root.
3. folders/catalogs are handled as files, and while they detract from the 512 max, they themselves does not have any max limit to files in them.
4. Long filenames should have been grounds for execution...
ANY file with a long name takes up AT LEAST 3 FAT slots(of the 512 if placed in the root)
1 for a 'shortened' name compatible with older DOS programs.
and 2 or more to fit the 'long' name, in chunks of 11 characters.
Where 'long' filenames are allowed, FAT16 is often called VFAT, but it's still the same mess...
Me?
I still can't figure out how M$ managed to get that patent as the FAT12/FAT16/FATWhatever is just a scaled up version of the disk formats used on CP/M machines...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Don't visit my new website...
I believe I have this 1.5" LCD display (the uLCD?). I just got it working with the Propeller chip tonight. It is VERY easy to setup as it is a 3.3 volt device, with a 5 volt backlight. I got all the functionality of text, circles, rects etc fairly quickly. For fun today I added a semaphore so I can have multiple cogs using the same display
I'm really liking this Propeller.
Kerry
But they do have a patent (and do·enforce it)·on use of long file names.
This is why my SD datalogger does not use long file names.
Bean.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Cheap 4-digit LED display with driver IC·www.hc4led.com
COMING SOON "SD DATA LOGGER" www.sddatalogger.com
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Mythbusters
·
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax
Obviously the Propeller was a paradigm shift, but with all the added resources in such a small packet it is a 'quantum leap' forward too. I can have a Video Terminal using rs-232 with mass storage on a SDcard.
It just keeps getting better.
I suspect the short names were a 'public domain legacy' from CPM.
Not having long names is really a small detail as they really seem to clutter my life more than help it.
They make searches have to work harder too.
Root and tree are central to good housekeeping.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 5/15/2006 5:29:10 AM GMT
The uALFAT is excellent, but while eating dinner and walking the dog I realized that Jon feels it can all be done in software on the Propeller. It will take more pins [noparse][[/noparse]the uALFAT is SPI or IC2], but one $25 chip might do it all.
Should I really spend another $40 for this?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
1+1=10
Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 5/15/2006 2:19:58 PM GMT
It has Rs232 also,you can hook it up with a USB to serial and talk to it with a Term program
SO! you can program the ASCII into the prop easly, one do it with a Serial LCD so why do one need to spend more?It has built in
firmware that allows one to use it this way,what more do you need,They will write you a new firmware @ $65 hr 25 hr,s MIN!(grin)
Dennis
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
http://people.delphiforums.com/cocokiwi/Image/picture.jpg
Personally, for me, all I need is reading/writing 8.3 from the root, so I'm going to put together my own SW solution.
I think rokicki said it best. It's a bunch of tradeoffs, and its the project at hand that will really drive it home.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket
KK
·
I am lagging behind all you folks, but finally going in the right direction! New development system is built and running fine so I get to play with my Propeller!
I have assembled my PropStick and successfully run "Alive!" and single / double led / cog programs. Works fine.
I cannot for the life of me get anything to output video (composite). It's a bit confusing with the various video / graphics "demos" - not really sure anymore which one should work! The "TV" versions (which won't compile without adding a parameter) and the "graphics" ones do nothing.
Now, I am not blaming anything or anyone - I would like to get a program that is KNOWN to work so I can determine if I have a hardware (PC Video card) issue. It used to work, but haven't used the composite in for a while.
I wired up the 3 resistor composite jack attached to pins 12,13,14 of the Prop - which program can I use as a "stake in the ground"?
Thanks for the help.
Paul
ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS????
Post Edited (pwssr) : 5/16/2006 2:54:14 PM GMT
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=585889
it worked for me.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Mike
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=204
Thanks - I had found that one! Still on the hunt!
Paul
http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~amitra/sdcard/ProdManualSDCardv1.9.pdf
Google is your friend... tempermental at times, but a friend nevertheless
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket
KK
·
··
·· Cheers Dennis
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
http://people.delphiforums.com/cocokiwi/Image/picture.jpg
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket
KK
·