Today the PCBs arrived, so I was able to assemble and test a production PropSTICK. I'm happy to report that everything went smoothly. This weekend will be spent kitting up the parts for eventual shipment to Parallax.
Attached is the release candidate for the PropSTICK documentation, complete with photos and a schematic. Any feedback before Monday (when it goes to press) would be appreciated!
Grr.. My propeller chip shipped via UPS today because they just came in, and I didn't get to call Parallax yet to change my order to the PropStick because I was told to wait till after Friday! You guys are too efficient!! Is there any way I can order the kit without a propeller chip? I suppose I can just build my own circuit like I had thought of doing originally.
If you or other customers fall into the category of having already taken shipment of your P8X32A-D40, yet planned on ordering a PropStick but didn't have a chance to change your order because we are so quick please contact me offline kgracey@parallax.com. I'll happily fix the situation for you.
After all, I take responsibility for directing you to the P8X32A-D40 chip and the USB2SER while we wait for the starter kit. At the time, I didn't think we'd have a PropStick showing up for sale, but that's okay.
A lot has been said in this thread about "kitting". In mathematical terms, kitting is the transposition of a matrix of parts from row major to column major form. In psychological terms, it's pure drudgery, but with a twist: you can't turn your mind off, or you'll screw up. In systems analytical terms, it's a collection of methods for countering the natural tendency to screw up, hopefully producing an accurate count and, in the best of all worlds, keeping it interesting. In realistic terms, screw-ups do occasionally happen. That's why everything gets check-weighed on a scale accurate to .01-gram and recounted if there's a discrepancy.
Attached are some photos of the kitting operation. Photo 1 shows the main kitting rack. It holds 100 static shield bags, puckered open so I can drop parts into them. Each subcolumn of bags is numbered 1 through 10. When I'm loading bags, I count "1, 2, ... , 10". That way, if I have to take my eyes off of where I was, I can come back, and the labels will tell me at a glance which bag is next.
Sometimes more than one of an item has to go into each bag. In the case of the PropSTICK, there are seven radial-lead .1µF caps. Separating these to count them is like untangling coathangers. Rather than try to do this while loading bags, the caps are counted on a pharmacist's pill tray and loaded into vials -- seven per vial. Then each vial is dumped into a bag. (No, I'm not a pharmacist, licit or otherwise. The vials came from my MSorter inventory. The counting tray is actually better for compact, hard objects, like screws and nuts, than for components with leads on them.)
Check-weighing at the end can be a wasted effort if normal weight variations add up to more than the weight of the smallest part. There were two items of particular concern in this regard: the little plastic crystal insulators, which are so light they'd float away if they didn't cling to everything they touched, and the foam blocks that the DIPs get stuck in, whose weights could vary by several crystal insulators. So the insulators got kitted first. Then each bag was inspected to make sure it had one in it. The bags will likely be check-weighed before the foam blocks with the DIPs get added. Those are easy enough to add afterward and visually inspect as they're going in.
One thing that astonished me was how poorly parts from the distributors are counted. If you order 100 of something (except ICs), you're just as like to get 103 as 100. It drove me nuts at first. I'd end up with a couple parts left over and have to recount everything.
Photo 3 shows the Propeller labels just after printing and cutting. The machine that does it is a Roland ColorCamm. It's one of the handiest pieces of equipment I own. (It's also used for cutting out holographic eyes for fishing lures.)
So in the (hopefully) improbable event that you get a PropSTICK kit with a missing part, you'll know whom to blame. But please let me know, so I can refine the process! And if you have experience with kitting and want to share some tips, I'm all ears!
The true masters of the kitting process have to be the Lego company. I had occasion to visit their factory in Enfield, CT, once. While I can't divulge the details of what I saw there, I can say that the methods and expensive machinery they employed to create the kits and ensure accuracy took my breath away.
Also the parts list needs one correction: there will be two jumper wires instead of ten.
Thanks,
Phil
P.S. 'Nearing the homestretch ... The passives are kitted, and the DIPs are stuffed onto foam blocks. 'Just waiting for the scales to warm up and stabilize ('takes a couple hours), so I can finish up.
Checkweighing turned up two kits with a missing part and two with an extra part. The checkweighing was kinda nuts for awhile: the weight distribution had two peaks about a quarter gram apart, with about 20% of the kits occupying the lower peak. This concerned me, since a cap weighs about 0.17g. 'Turns out the PCBs came in two different weights -- probably from different panels that got different amounts of tin plating. When I reweighed the light ones without the PCBs, they were all okay. 'Next time the PCBs go in after the first checkweighing!
Also attached is the latest version of the docs, including changes and corrections suggested both here in the forum and by Parallax tech support. I also modified the order of assembly a bit. The switch is pretty close to the DB9. If you try to install the DB9 with the switch in place, it would be easy to slip and melt the switch's plastic housing. So now the switch goes in last. If all goes according to plan, the docs will be printed Monday in time to poly-bag them with the static-bagged parts and send them off to Parallax. But it'll be tight since the UPS deadline here in the sticks is 4:30PM.
Many thanks to everyone who read the docs and provided feedback!
Cheers!
Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 4/30/2006 6:51:28 AM GMT
It is a great kit, but I would consider one tiny change in the documentation -- the Photo in the upper left of Page four [noparse][[/noparse]or maybe two].·
(Okay, maybe add page numbers too.)
Since the 'the Vin or RAW +5 to 9 volts DC' is only used by the PropStick, why not keep it entirely away from the breadboard's 'power rails'? After all, if it is available at one and only one location, there is far less likelyhood of error.
I suppose there are lots of arguments PRO and CON, but it just seems wisest to me to leave that rail for Vdd, the+3.3V regulated DC.
And, I do understand that the main purpose of the photo is to call attention to where exactly to connect the power source, so please don't just remove it -- just change +Vin going to an external supply via a pig-tail or something. [noparse][[/noparse]You could have Vdd go to the rail for clarity.]
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
George, I guess I was thinking that +5V would still be the most common source of power and that his would likely be on the rail to power the user's other circuitry. But an equal case could be made for letting the PropSTICK power the Vdd rail from its own regulator. 'Depends on what it's being used for, I s'pose. I'll have to ponder that one. The page numbering will be obvious in the doc that comes with the kit. It's a little awkward in a PDF for a folded sheet, and I probably ought to make a separate version for the web with the pages in the right order.
Paisa, give them time. My guess is this week sometime. But even with product in hand (which they don't have yet) there's much to be done in creating a webpage for it, including getting good photos. (And, no, I can't sell kits direct. Sorry.)
On Monday we'll enable on-line ordering of PropSticks. We'll be shipping them no later than Wednesday, okay?
I'm making Monday a day of PropSticks and ordering, web posting of software/documentation for Propeller, and related requests.
Ken
Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 4/30/2006 4:08:05 PM GMT
I've thought about your "+Vin-connected-to-the-rails-in-the-photo" objection all day. It just seemed to nag for resolution. I even upacked one of the assembled samples I'm sending to Parallax in order to take another snapshot. But as soon as I moved the red wire from the breadboard bus to an uncommitted hole, I knew there was a problem: "Oh, cripes! Now it's not connected to anything!" So what to do? String a single wire out of the frame? Show a zipcord coming in from a wall transformer? Add a 9-volt battery? It was then I realized that anything I added would clutter the photo with needless specificity. So I didn't take another picture. At least with a bus connection there's the implication that Vin is connected to something, and the user can fill in the blank.
But since you raised a valid point, I thought you at least deserved to know why I didn't follow through.
I do realize the dilemma with +Vin. I suggested some kind of 'pig-tail'. I have ones that go to a barrel plug, ones that go to a 9V battery, and ones that just have a 0.1 female plug on the end.
Having the dilemma recognized and discussed here will at least allow many of the first users to make their own choices. Some may opt to directly wire a pig-tail to the PropStick itself.
I just presume that there are so many beginners involved with 3.3 volt that you want to avoid setting up a 'trap situation' for them.
Some people say that 'the enemy of excellence is the good.' That may be a bit extreme, but 'if you really think of everything - the competition has nothing to sell.'
I am sure it will work for nearly all. It is indeed to get another image in black and white that would be as clear. And, there is a large warning about I/O voltages.
We all know that some Propeller are going to go immediately to Propeller Heaven regardless of what is done to prevent it.
BTW, my breadboards have TWO + rails and two - rails. Maybe that would make a better photo.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Thanks for the info····································································· ·····························································································
···························································································· ······································ .................................They might have gone MAD........................... ············································································································· ·······································............................................Just a thought................................
········································They·are happy about the announcement·ot the Prosticks kits are here
I got my PropSticks today! Not bad considering I am located in Spain and that I ordered them two days ago!.
Still working on one of them to put it to work !
Comments
Today the PCBs arrived, so I was able to assemble and test a production PropSTICK. I'm happy to report that everything went smoothly. This weekend will be spent kitting up the parts for eventual shipment to Parallax.
Attached is the release candidate for the PropSTICK documentation, complete with photos and a schematic. Any feedback before Monday (when it goes to press) would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Phil
Matt
If you or other customers fall into the category of having already taken shipment of your P8X32A-D40, yet planned on ordering a PropStick but didn't have a chance to change your order because we are so quick please contact me offline kgracey@parallax.com. I'll happily fix the situation for you.
After all, I take responsibility for directing you to the P8X32A-D40 chip and the USB2SER while we wait for the starter kit. At the time, I didn't think we'd have a PropStick showing up for sale, but that's okay.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Is the components kit also for sale?
If that is the case when is going for sale and how much is the board and the components kit?
I want both the demo board and the Propstick
·
Attached are some photos of the kitting operation. Photo 1 shows the main kitting rack. It holds 100 static shield bags, puckered open so I can drop parts into them. Each subcolumn of bags is numbered 1 through 10. When I'm loading bags, I count "1, 2, ... , 10". That way, if I have to take my eyes off of where I was, I can come back, and the labels will tell me at a glance which bag is next.
Sometimes more than one of an item has to go into each bag. In the case of the PropSTICK, there are seven radial-lead .1µF caps. Separating these to count them is like untangling coathangers. Rather than try to do this while loading bags, the caps are counted on a pharmacist's pill tray and loaded into vials -- seven per vial. Then each vial is dumped into a bag. (No, I'm not a pharmacist, licit or otherwise. The vials came from my MSorter inventory. The counting tray is actually better for compact, hard objects, like screws and nuts, than for components with leads on them.)
Check-weighing at the end can be a wasted effort if normal weight variations add up to more than the weight of the smallest part. There were two items of particular concern in this regard: the little plastic crystal insulators, which are so light they'd float away if they didn't cling to everything they touched, and the foam blocks that the DIPs get stuck in, whose weights could vary by several crystal insulators. So the insulators got kitted first. Then each bag was inspected to make sure it had one in it. The bags will likely be check-weighed before the foam blocks with the DIPs get added. Those are easy enough to add afterward and visually inspect as they're going in.
One thing that astonished me was how poorly parts from the distributors are counted. If you order 100 of something (except ICs), you're just as like to get 103 as 100. It drove me nuts at first. I'd end up with a couple parts left over and have to recount everything.
Photo 3 shows the Propeller labels just after printing and cutting. The machine that does it is a Roland ColorCamm. It's one of the handiest pieces of equipment I own. (It's also used for cutting out holographic eyes for fishing lures.)
So in the (hopefully) improbable event that you get a PropSTICK kit with a missing part, you'll know whom to blame. But please let me know, so I can refine the process! And if you have experience with kitting and want to share some tips, I'm all ears!
Thanks,
Phil
The following is said in the KINDEST sense, and with tongue-in-cheek, since I very much respect you, and your obvious abilities.
Did your therapist ever accuse you of being overly analytical
Regards,
Bruce Bates
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<!--StartFragment -->
We·understand the pain you are going through.
We will forgive you if something is missing.
Good luck with your kitting.
-Phil
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Stan Dobrowski
The true masters of the kitting process have to be the Lego company. I had occasion to visit their factory in Enfield, CT, once. While I can't divulge the details of what I saw there, I can say that the methods and expensive machinery they employed to create the kits and ensure accuracy took my breath away.
-Phil
I was just looking over the docs and I noticed that the assembly instructions don't indicate orientation of the eeprom or level shifter dips
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Who says you have to have knowledge to use it?
I've killed a fly with my bare mind.
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Who says you have to have knowledge to use it?
I've killed a fly with my bare mind.
Also the parts list needs one correction: there will be two jumper wires instead of ten.
Thanks,
Phil
P.S. 'Nearing the homestretch ... The passives are kitted, and the DIPs are stuffed onto foam blocks. 'Just waiting for the scales to warm up and stabilize ('takes a couple hours), so I can finish up.
This will be a full kit with a board, the Propeller chip
Can you post what Stock # ....
I·have my Propeller chip order on HOLD
Because i want to order the FULL KIT instead····
Thanks for your help in this matter
Sam···
The stock number will be 32310.
-Phil
Checkweighing turned up two kits with a missing part and two with an extra part. The checkweighing was kinda nuts for awhile: the weight distribution had two peaks about a quarter gram apart, with about 20% of the kits occupying the lower peak. This concerned me, since a cap weighs about 0.17g. 'Turns out the PCBs came in two different weights -- probably from different panels that got different amounts of tin plating. When I reweighed the light ones without the PCBs, they were all okay. 'Next time the PCBs go in after the first checkweighing!
Also attached is the latest version of the docs, including changes and corrections suggested both here in the forum and by Parallax tech support. I also modified the order of assembly a bit. The switch is pretty close to the DB9. If you try to install the DB9 with the switch in place, it would be easy to slip and melt the switch's plastic housing. So now the switch goes in last. If all goes according to plan, the docs will be printed Monday in time to poly-bag them with the static-bagged parts and send them off to Parallax. But it'll be tight since the UPS deadline here in the sticks is 4:30PM.
Many thanks to everyone who read the docs and provided feedback!
Cheers!
Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 4/30/2006 6:51:28 AM GMT
(Okay, maybe add page numbers too.)
Since the 'the Vin or RAW +5 to 9 volts DC' is only used by the PropStick, why not keep it entirely away from the breadboard's 'power rails'? After all, if it is available at one and only one location, there is far less likelyhood of error.
I suppose there are lots of arguments PRO and CON, but it just seems wisest to me to leave that rail for Vdd, the+3.3V regulated DC.
And, I do understand that the main purpose of the photo is to call attention to where exactly to connect the power source, so please don't just remove it -- just change +Vin going to an external supply via a pig-tail or something. [noparse][[/noparse]You could have Vdd go to the rail for clarity.]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 4/30/2006 11:16:43 AM GMT
Where can I place my order for PropStick ?
By the way, I dont want to 'replace' my Propeller(s) order but add the Sticks to my former order.
I suspect my Propeller order is·about to be shipped and I would like to include the sticks in the same package·!.
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Phil, do you· know when?
Could I buy the kit directly from you?
Paisa, give them time. My guess is this week sometime. But even with product in hand (which they don't have yet) there's much to be done in creating a webpage for it, including getting good photos. (And, no, I can't sell kits direct. Sorry.)
-Phil
On Monday we'll enable on-line ordering of PropSticks. We'll be shipping them no later than Wednesday, okay?
I'm making Monday a day of PropSticks and ordering, web posting of software/documentation for Propeller, and related requests.
Ken
Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 4/30/2006 4:08:05 PM GMT
I think I speak for all of us here when I say your post is music to my ears.
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Who says you have to have knowledge to use it?
I've killed a fly with my bare mind.
I've thought about your "+Vin-connected-to-the-rails-in-the-photo" objection all day. It just seemed to nag for resolution. I even upacked one of the assembled samples I'm sending to Parallax in order to take another snapshot. But as soon as I moved the red wire from the breadboard bus to an uncommitted hole, I knew there was a problem: "Oh, cripes! Now it's not connected to anything!" So what to do? String a single wire out of the frame? Show a zipcord coming in from a wall transformer? Add a 9-volt battery? It was then I realized that anything I added would clutter the photo with needless specificity. So I didn't take another picture. At least with a bus connection there's the implication that Vin is connected to something, and the user can fill in the blank.
But since you raised a valid point, I thought you at least deserved to know why I didn't follow through.
Cheers!
Phil
Having the dilemma recognized and discussed here will at least allow many of the first users to make their own choices. Some may opt to directly wire a pig-tail to the PropStick itself.
I just presume that there are so many beginners involved with 3.3 volt that you want to avoid setting up a 'trap situation' for them.
Some people say that 'the enemy of excellence is the good.' That may be a bit extreme, but 'if you really think of everything - the competition has nothing to sell.'
I am sure it will work for nearly all. It is indeed to get another image in black and white that would be as clear. And, there is a large warning about I/O voltages.
We all know that some Propeller are going to go immediately to Propeller Heaven regardless of what is done to prevent it.
BTW, my breadboards have TWO + rails and two - rails. Maybe that would make a better photo.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 5/1/2006 1:22:01 PM GMT
Thanks for the info·····································································
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······································ .................................They might have gone MAD...........................
··················································
·······································............................................Just a thought................................
········································They·are happy about the announcement·ot the Prosticks kits are here
························································································ ·
Sam
www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32310
as if anybody here hasn't already been there.
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Who says you have to have knowledge to use it?
I've killed a fly with my bare mind.
Still working on one of them to put it to work !
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I just finished putting it together.
Question:
The Red & Black jumpers are to connect the +5V and Gnd to the assembly.
Right?