Phil, If you are somewhere near the break even point for the PropStick perhaps you could let me know. I would be willing o place an advance order for the number of 'sticks needed to get production started. If you would e-mail me? Thanks,
Richard
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Richard "Still thinks the PDP-8 was a great machine" Cook
Thanks for your offer to pre-order the boards. But I can sense enough pent-up demand that I'm going ahead with the project. Tomorrow I should be receiving protos of the new board, redesigned for the MAX3232. Assuming it works, I will order 200 masked and screened production boards for delivery next week sometime.
In the meantime, I tested some different socket strips for the 40-pin DIP; but the pins were too short, so I've settled on the original wire-wrap sockets. I was initially concerned about them, since removing the PropSTICK from a wireless breadboard requires considerable force. But I've discovered a trick that makes extraction very easy. It involves the use of a cheap plastic bicycle tire "iron", of the type illustrated below. To further accommodate this tool, I've added a little more meat to the edge of the board to get a grip on -- but not enough to encroach on any breadboard holes.
Well, I have been looking for a supply of MAX3232 chips, but haven't found them in DIP.
I am assuming you are using a DIP rather than the surface mounted version.
Procurement in Taiwan is always an oddity. NO Max3232 chips. I went to also buy DS1305 chips to use and they only have DS1202 and no crystals. I tried to buy some LM1117-3.3 regulators, but they sold me a 4-pin variety, a KA78R33. Nice for breadboard, but won't work with the PropStick.
I believe you said Mouser has everything for it. [noparse][[/noparse]I know they don't have the Dallas Semi chips, but I will just have to make two orders.]
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
I'm actually using the ST Micro version of the MAX chip: ST3232EBN, Mouser part no. 511-ST3232EBN. The 3.3-volt regulator is an LF33ABV, Mouser no. 511-LF33ABV. Any number of TO220 3.3V regs would work. I've specified adequate caps for most of the more restrictive PNP low-dropout models. My favorite is the National LM2937, since it has reverse battery protection. DigiKey carries it, but Mouser does not. Once I know for sure that all this stuff will play nice together, I'll post a BoM.
The new proto boards came today. Attached is a photo of both the new (foreground) and old (background) versions. It's a good thing I did the protos, as two minor adjustments are necessary:
1) Pullup on P30 (TxOUT). This will keep the MAX3232 in a marking state when P30 is floating.
2) Larger holes for the +Vin and Gnd sockets on the end. The arbor press worked, but — sheesh! — I don't expect everyone to have one of those.
The PropSTICK is very much alive. Things always get quiet when you're waiting for circuit boards to arrive, and they should be here Friday. Meanwhile, I'm busy preparing the docs for it. Attached is a printout of the board's soldermask and silkscreen artwork to whet your appetite.
Phil, any plans for a surface mount version of the PropSTICK (all surface mount components and the PC interface as a chip clip mount)? That would be something I'd be interested in.
'No current plans for SMD, but that could ultimately change if there's a demand. If they were being sold fully-assembled, that'd certainly be the way to go. But as a do-it-yourself project, surface mount is not very approachable for most people armed with a soldering iron.
I see the silk screen, but no interconnects on the solder side.... is this a multi-layer board and the interconnects on a middle layer? Very nice. Keep up the great work so us wanna be's can evolve into Guru's
No, it's two layer. The top layer is mostly ground plane. But what you're seeing is just a CorelDraw rendering of the mask and screen layers imported from the PCB CAD system. I didn't include any traces or holes in the illustration.
But it gets even better. This will be a full kit with a board, the Propeller chip, the vinyl label, and all the parts necessary to assemble it. One stop shopping! No need to buy a bare board and shop around for the parts! I'm really excited by this arrangement, and I believe everyone will benefit from it.
It's official and we'll have 100 units to get started late next week.
The price will be $79.95. This may seem expensive to some of us, but it's the only price at which we can offer the product. I'd like to give a little cost justification. First, this is American-made and kitted. Phil's company has experience with kitting (he supplies TCS230 Color Sensors, M Sorter Kits, Boe-Bot Encoders, and some new products to follow in 60 days) so you will get a complete, properly documented kit. Putting parts in bags costs a fair amount of money, but you'll be getting the most accurate PropStick kit possible with this approach. Accurate kitting is far more difficult than you could possibly imagine unless you've done it.
If you consider the cost of the parts alone (Propeller = $25; bare board if it were available from Phil = $29; pile of components from Mouser or Digi-Key = $12) they could add up to $66 without paying shipping from each location where they are purchased. For a few dollars more you've got a one-stop supply of PropSticks at $79.95 from Parallax with proper fit, size and placement. No backordered components.
Finally, this sales model is sustainable through Parallax. If he sells boards alone he'll spend more time stuffing envelopes and running eBay auctions than designing these neat products. I've seen many good one-man engineering shops get mired in these details in recent years.
And from our perspective PropStick is a neat development tool for Propeller (especially while the production line is getting started on our own Propeller Demo Board).
I realize nobody is complaining about the price, but I thought it would be worthwhile to provide some justification to $79.95. You'd be surprised how quickly your costs add up in these situations. Making a profit is really not the goal this time - it's covering our costs and getting you guys started with Propeller. It is also helpful to know that our average sales price is much lower than $79.95 because much of our products go through distribution.
Foreign customers will also be able to buy PropSticks from Parallax distributors. We'll do our best to keep their prices under control by providing a substantial distribution discount.
I hope this is acceptable and beneficial to our valued Propeller customers.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 4/25/2006 9:47:46 PM GMT
Is there a picture of what the final product will look like, since their was some discussion concerning adding a max232. Once this product is assembled, all I have to do is plug this into a breadboard, attach 6-9vdc power supply, attach an rs-232 cable that plugs into my computer, and I am ready to program? And the most important component, the Propeller manual, will this be available with the kit, either in pdf format or the $25 dollar printed version.
All of our documentation, including the Propeller manual and IDE, will be freely available for download. With this, you'll be ready to program if you have a power supply. There was some prior discussion about the line driver - scroll to page 2.
The kit will include a MAX3232 or equivalent RS232 interface IC. (The first batch will have ST3232s.) Because distributor stocks are in such upheaval due to the new lead-free requirements coming on line in the EU, it's impossible to guarantee one particular manufacturer's part or another. But I can assure you that the parts provided in each kit will be chosen and tested to work together.
Also, the voltage regulator provided will be of the low-dropout type, so you can power the board from +5V. This is, in fact, the recommended method, since it minimizes heat dissipation in the 3.3V regulator.
Phil, thanks for creating a great kit for us to get started with the Propeller.
Ken, wow.· Thanks for carrying the complete kit with parts·for us to get our hands on so easily and at a reasonable price.
I wanted to buy one of Phil's boards, but I was put off by the notion of having to deal with getting the parts myself.· This combination of Phil's idea and Parallax selling it is a fantastic benefit to us eager Propeller heads.
Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...(trimmed)
'No current plans for SMD, but that could ultimately change if there's a demand. If they were being sold fully-
Phil,
·· I think through-hole is appropriate for the DIP Propeller...If we were dealing with an SMD Propeller Stick it would be a different story.
I was refering to an all SMD version, including the propeller (akin to the SX52 con carne), I like things small and compact as possible [noparse]:)[/noparse].
I originally pre-ordered a single propeller chip and was going to build my own dev board. Can I change my order to one of these new prop sticks? How should I go about doing that?
You are the second such request, so I should answer this on the forums. If you've ordered a Propeller chip and want to get the PropStick instead, simply e-mail sales@parallax.com and give them the relevant information to change your order (order number, your name) to the PropStick. Do this after Friday please, else they'll say "huh, what are you talking about? I've never heard of the PropStick" because we're just going through the internal process right now to get this in our product line. It takes a few days before everybody knows what's going on and the product has a stock code, and our sales team doesn't normally read the forums (I wish they did, though!).
Comments
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Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Richard
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Richard "Still thinks the PDP-8 was a great machine" Cook
Thanks for your offer to pre-order the boards. But I can sense enough pent-up demand that I'm going ahead with the project. Tomorrow I should be receiving protos of the new board, redesigned for the MAX3232. Assuming it works, I will order 200 masked and screened production boards for delivery next week sometime.
In the meantime, I tested some different socket strips for the 40-pin DIP; but the pins were too short, so I've settled on the original wire-wrap sockets. I was initially concerned about them, since removing the PropSTICK from a wireless breadboard requires considerable force. But I've discovered a trick that makes extraction very easy. It involves the use of a cheap plastic bicycle tire "iron", of the type illustrated below. To further accommodate this tool, I've added a little more meat to the edge of the board to get a grip on -- but not enough to encroach on any breadboard holes.
So stay tuned: things are moving forward!
Thanks,
Phil
I am assuming you are using a DIP rather than the surface mounted version.
Procurement in Taiwan is always an oddity. NO Max3232 chips. I went to also buy DS1305 chips to use and they only have DS1202 and no crystals. I tried to buy some LM1117-3.3 regulators, but they sold me a 4-pin variety, a KA78R33. Nice for breadboard, but won't work with the PropStick.
I believe you said Mouser has everything for it. [noparse][[/noparse]I know they don't have the Dallas Semi chips, but I will just have to make two orders.]
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
I'm actually using the ST Micro version of the MAX chip: ST3232EBN, Mouser part no. 511-ST3232EBN. The 3.3-volt regulator is an LF33ABV, Mouser no. 511-LF33ABV. Any number of TO220 3.3V regs would work. I've specified adequate caps for most of the more restrictive PNP low-dropout models. My favorite is the National LM2937, since it has reverse battery protection. DigiKey carries it, but Mouser does not. Once I know for sure that all this stuff will play nice together, I'll post a BoM.
-Phil
1) Pullup on P30 (TxOUT). This will keep the MAX3232 in a marking state when P30 is floating.
2) Larger holes for the +Vin and Gnd sockets on the end. The arbor press worked, but — sheesh! — I don't expect everyone to have one of those.
But no more protos; it's off to production!
-Phil
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
-Phil
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Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket
KK
·
When is going for sale?
The PropSTICK is very much alive. Things always get quiet when you're waiting for circuit boards to arrive, and they should be here Friday. Meanwhile, I'm busy preparing the docs for it. Attached is a printout of the board's soldermask and silkscreen artwork to whet your appetite.
I'll have an announcement soon. Stay tuned!
-Phil
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1+1=10
'No current plans for SMD, but that could ultimately change if there's a demand. If they were being sold fully-assembled, that'd certainly be the way to go. But as a do-it-yourself project, surface mount is not very approachable for most people armed with a soldering iron.
-Phil
I see the silk screen, but no interconnects on the solder side.... is this a multi-layer board and the interconnects on a middle layer? Very nice. Keep up the great work so us wanna be's can evolve into Guru's
Charlie
No, it's two layer. The top layer is mostly ground plane. But what you're seeing is just a CorelDraw rendering of the mask and screen layers imported from the PCB CAD system. I didn't include any traces or holes in the illustration.
-Phil
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Richard "Still thinks the PDP-8 was a great machine" Cook
Here's the announcement I promised earlier:
Parallax will be carrying the PropSTICK!!
But it gets even better. This will be a full kit with a board, the Propeller chip, the vinyl label, and all the parts necessary to assemble it. One stop shopping! No need to buy a bare board and shop around for the parts! I'm really excited by this arrangement, and I believe everyone will benefit from it.
Cheers!
Phil
It's official and we'll have 100 units to get started late next week.
The price will be $79.95. This may seem expensive to some of us, but it's the only price at which we can offer the product. I'd like to give a little cost justification. First, this is American-made and kitted. Phil's company has experience with kitting (he supplies TCS230 Color Sensors, M Sorter Kits, Boe-Bot Encoders, and some new products to follow in 60 days) so you will get a complete, properly documented kit. Putting parts in bags costs a fair amount of money, but you'll be getting the most accurate PropStick kit possible with this approach. Accurate kitting is far more difficult than you could possibly imagine unless you've done it.
If you consider the cost of the parts alone (Propeller = $25; bare board if it were available from Phil = $29; pile of components from Mouser or Digi-Key = $12) they could add up to $66 without paying shipping from each location where they are purchased. For a few dollars more you've got a one-stop supply of PropSticks at $79.95 from Parallax with proper fit, size and placement. No backordered components.
Finally, this sales model is sustainable through Parallax. If he sells boards alone he'll spend more time stuffing envelopes and running eBay auctions than designing these neat products. I've seen many good one-man engineering shops get mired in these details in recent years.
And from our perspective PropStick is a neat development tool for Propeller (especially while the production line is getting started on our own Propeller Demo Board).
I realize nobody is complaining about the price, but I thought it would be worthwhile to provide some justification to $79.95. You'd be surprised how quickly your costs add up in these situations. Making a profit is really not the goal this time - it's covering our costs and getting you guys started with Propeller. It is also helpful to know that our average sales price is much lower than $79.95 because much of our products go through distribution.
Foreign customers will also be able to buy PropSticks from Parallax distributors. We'll do our best to keep their prices under control by providing a substantial distribution discount.
I hope this is acceptable and beneficial to our valued Propeller customers.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 4/25/2006 9:47:46 PM GMT
Put me down for one Please!
THX!
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Andrew
Ray
All of our documentation, including the Propeller manual and IDE, will be freely available for download. With this, you'll be ready to program if you have a power supply. There was some prior discussion about the line driver - scroll to page 2.
- Ken
The kit will include a MAX3232 or equivalent RS232 interface IC. (The first batch will have ST3232s.) Because distributor stocks are in such upheaval due to the new lead-free requirements coming on line in the EU, it's impossible to guarantee one particular manufacturer's part or another. But I can assure you that the parts provided in each kit will be chosen and tested to work together.
Also, the voltage regulator provided will be of the low-dropout type, so you can power the board from +5V. This is, in fact, the recommended method, since it minimizes heat dissipation in the 3.3V regulator.
-Phil
·· I think through-hole is appropriate for the DIP Propeller...If we were dealing with an SMD Propeller Stick it would be a different story.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
Ken, wow.· Thanks for carrying the complete kit with parts·for us to get our hands on so easily and at a reasonable price.
I wanted to buy one of Phil's boards, but I was put off by the notion of having to deal with getting the parts myself.· This combination of Phil's idea and Parallax selling it is a fantastic benefit to us eager Propeller heads.
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Stan Dobrowski
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1+1=10
Thanks
Matt
You are the second such request, so I should answer this on the forums. If you've ordered a Propeller chip and want to get the PropStick instead, simply e-mail sales@parallax.com and give them the relevant information to change your order (order number, your name) to the PropStick. Do this after Friday please, else they'll say "huh, what are you talking about? I've never heard of the PropStick" because we're just going through the internal process right now to get this in our product line. It takes a few days before everybody knows what's going on and the product has a stock code, and our sales team doesn't normally read the forums (I wish they did, though!).
Thanks,
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
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OS-X: because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows
-Phil