Without those oldies, but goodies, many of us would not be where we are today. I have nothing but fond memories of my wire-wrapping Z80 days, C= VIC-20 saving my programs to Cassette and TRS-80 hacking. I will admit that when the Amiga 500 came out I was a little diverted from hardware hacking for several months, but ah well.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Chris Savage Parallax Engineering
I started with a TS-1000, and one of the things I learned was from the intro, something like, "You are smarter than your computer. In fact, your canary is smarter than your computer." Learned BASIC and a little ASM with the TS (that stood for "Turtle-Slow" didn't it?), then advanced to the CoCo. Unfortunately, my TS experience produced some odd moments: I'd enter "10 P" and wonder where the rest of "PRINT" was! -- the TS would complete the word for you.
The CoCo2 expanded, and I tried OS-9, then I went on to the CoCo3. Along the way, I got a Model 100, and was forced to get an IBM PC clone so I could fiddle with my work at home.
Before we moved, and a lot of stuff got packed away, I had my 512K CoCo3 running as what would be called a server today, with the Model 100 as one terminal, and the clone as a second. The clone had much better editors, so I'd use it to write BASIC09 programs, and download them to compile and debug them on the CoCo.
I think the older computers were good because (1) you could get your head wrapped around them, and (2) they were hackable -- my CoCo2 had LEDs on the front of the case showing when info was going through the serial port.
--Rich
Owner of TS-1000, CoCo2&3, C64, TRS-80 Model100, AIM-65.
Hi, I probably don't have as much programming skills as most but I do remember my first 'computer', the MC-10. the little Chiclets keyboard with the expandable memory plugged in the back! Then I moved to the TRS-80 even built the voice synthesizer from the Shack
I understand that the Voyager spacecraft that are out at the end of our solar system have about 4KB and a tape recorder. Not even as powerful as an Apple //.
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I just bought a TRS-80 Color Computer on an online auction(awaiting delivery) and a few weeks ago I got hold of the Z80-based 'Micro Professor' microprocessor trainer.
(that one needed a new power connector and to have a shorted cap replaced. The smell of solder... pheromones for geeks... )
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Don't visit my new website...
This may be the place to ask -- I have a TRS80 Model I keyboard/base and monitor. Does anyone have the specs for the power supply? Volts, Amps, pin locations? I'd be ever so grateful...
I've been thinking about why the "Golden Age" computers are so loved. I wonder if it's because they were hobbyist computers -- who these days opens their computer to add a voice board? Or more memory? The golden oldies were "fiddle-able," and boy, did we fiddle with 'em!
Then, they were runnable out of the box in a way today's computers aren't: take out the computer, hang the adapter onto your TV, and away you go! Now the computer plays "50 Questions" with you, and God help you if you don't know the answer!
The G.A. 'puters were "human-sized" and individual. Today, all computers are box-shaped, and look just about the same. Whereas you can tell with a glance which is the TS-1000, CoCo, Model I, Apple ][noparse][[/noparse]e, etc.
And I believe they all had ports of one kind or another, allowing access to the buses. Sure, it wasn't idiot proof, but we were a little smarter back then. ;D And people developed stuff for those ports. I have a photocopy of several Radio-Electronics articles on how to add non-volatile RAM to the TS-1000, and how to set up a security system for the same.
Maybe, when our spouses ask, "What are you DOING with all that junk?" we should reply, "It's my hobby, dear. Be glad I don't work on old cars!"
RiJoRi said...
This may be the place to ask -- I have a TRS80 Model I keyboard/base and monitor. Does anyone have the specs for the power supply? Volts, Amps, pin locations? I'd be ever so grateful...
--Rich
You might be able to find the answer on this site:
If you can't find it let me know and I can look it up the next time I stop by my parents place. I'm sure I still have the Model I technical manual over there and can look it up.
Robert
Post Edited (RobotWorkshop) : 2/5/2009 7:14:57 PM GMT
Spouse looks at this as "Hubby is at home, and happy" -- No issues with my electronic stuff.
{Of course she knew she was marring a geek when she said "yes" years ago, makes this stuff a lot easier}
She has mastered the art of "That's truly nice dear" when I'm blabbering on about some
techno gadget like I've just discovered the cure for cancer. A good woman.
RiJoRi said...
"It's my hobby, dear. Be glad I don't work on old cars!"
I've not had much to add to this post, as I'm no where near an old school hacker. But with this statement, you have crossed the line, sir. You better watch it!!! Some of us do both!
RiJoRi,
I ended the comments by my better half about not throwing anything electronic away about a decade ago. I was asked by a local business about an application they wanted to buy and told them "I have everything you need and can provide it as a service at a lower cost". They said yes and I threw it together from parts out of my junk box. The system ran for over three years at $75/month. When it broke the first $1000 in income, all comments about the old junk stopped and suddenly she could see there may be some value in all that old stuff in my workshop / office / garage....
My wife will often ask if I can build something that can benefit her. For example, one year we were having a terrible time with keeping outside plants watered and the discussion came up of me being able to automate the whole process for her…
…and then there’s the Garage Parking Assistant in the Completed Projects section…
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Chris Savage Parallax Engineering
RiJoRi said...
I've been thinking about why the "Golden Age" computers are so loved. I wonder if it's because they were hobbyist computers -- who these days opens their computer to add a voice board? Or more memory? The golden oldies were "fiddle-able," and boy, did we fiddle with 'em!
Then, they were runnable out of the box in a way today's computers aren't: take out the computer, hang the adapter onto your TV, and away you go! Now the computer plays "50 Questions" with you, and God help you if you don't know the answer!
Yeah, one of the main reasons is that they were 'fiddleable' as you write.
Another is that 'they were part of the revolution, man'.
Is there any other field where the progress has been greater in as short a time as in the computer field?
There's also the knowledge that 'all the great ones' started out on this type of kit in their garage or basement and built a fortune or three out of them.
And the final reason is that many of us grew up playing games on them... ;-)
And yes, I sometimes miss the 'good old times'...
Particularly when the 'latest and best' doesn't deliver.
(I'm fighting a Win2003 install on a new server at work. Bleagh! )
Then it's REALLY nice to get home, fire up an old computer and go straight into tinkering mode without all the compatibility issues or driver problems.
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Don't visit my new website...
Why post in this thread? Well, it’s somewhat related…
I used to have a project site before I came to Parallax. Right before I was to move to CA my ISP in NY had to shut it down several times due to excessive traffic cause by posts from /. and similar sites. By the time I got settled out here I didn’t have the time to maintain the site anymore and I took it down.
Recently I started rebuilding the site…from scratch. What I aim to do is get the majority of my projects back online and then start posting new projects to the site at least once a month. Interim discussion of projects would be posted to my blog, final projects would be posted to the project site itself and pictures that weren’t part of the project page would be posted to the photo gallery.
I have also installed forum software so that once things grow enough we can open it up and have some real discussions on electronics and projects in general. Everything should be up by the end of the month, but I am posting now because I am looking for feedback, comments, suggestions, etc. from those that know me through the forums. Stop in, visit and leave a comment in the blog or send me an e-mail at the site.
By the end of the month there will be more regarding the tech show I mentioned in the blog. I will be soliciting ideas from those that wish to share them. So, if you’re interested, visit the following pages and leave your feedback.
Agree with T&E, your website is awesome. I already placed it on my favourite list, beside parallax forums. I wonder how you get time do all those things.
Also very interesting stuff in this thread too on the old fasion home computers. There is a ZX-81 somewhere in my house too, I still remember·25 years or so, back in time sitting programming the little black plastic box with that aweful keyboard. I remember I upgraded with·an external keyboard and even 16 kb RAM! Not bad! I still have magazines from that days with glory pictures of the '81 and the Spectrum. Thanks to Sir Clive for bringing those wonderful things to the world.
Not to forget the CBM-64, spent so many late hours with that one! I remember I've got a floppy disk drive to my CBM, I even bought a color monitor too.
I've done your HEX-signature too, some time ago, decoded it with the MS Windows calculator, not bad at all!
Thank you all for your comments! I wish I was able to put everything I had on the original site up on the new one, but I wanted to stick with more of what I had plans/pictures/schematics/code for. I want others to be able to get everything they need from the project pages, so all new projects will also have a completed bill of materials.
Glad you liked the sig line teaser...I knew it would be decoded by the true hackers and these would be the ones I would like to see visiting the site. Moskog, if you read the About section on the website you'd see the reason I put this post in this thread. It represents my humble beginnings and where I want to go from here. Ideally, I'd like to see the forums opened for discussion of the existing projects, but I want to make sure there is enough interest. So hopefully more will stop by and with enough feedback I will get things to where they need to be and start posting more projects. Thanks again guys.
Which Micro-Professor? The 1P? If it has the fluorescent display and a full ASCII keyboard, it's the 1P. I found it to be a pretty good idea, but the manual is awful. They should have had an American write it. The big shortcoming with the 1P is that it has no I/O to play with. Doing that requires either building an interface, or getting lucky and finding the board. As long as you have the manual, you should be OK. It has the monitor listings, subroutines, and schematics.
- Mark
Gadgetman said...
I just bought a TRS-80 Color Computer on an online auction(awaiting delivery) and a few weeks ago I got hold of the Z80-based 'Micro Professor' microprocessor trainer.
(that one needed a new power connector and to have a shorted cap replaced. The smell of solder... pheromones for geeks... )
I guess that depends on your point of view. The 1802 CPU used in the older spacecraft is a very powerful CPU, and unlike the 6502, it's radiation hardened and uses very little power. I would doubt that a tape recorder is used, as it seems that such a thing would quickly fail in the cold vacuum of space.
- Mark
Cluso99 said...
I understand that the Voyager spacecraft that are out at the end of our solar system have about 4KB and a tape recorder. Not even as powerful as an Apple //.
RiJoRi said...
This may be the place to ask -- I have a TRS80 Model I keyboard/base and monitor. Does anyone have the specs for the power supply? Volts, Amps, pin locations? I'd be ever so grateful...
Chris, Excellent site! I have been looking for a clean format to track all of my open projects for myself and for others to see my progress and suggest ideas or maybe learn something.
If you're interested, I was thinking of setting up the forums this weekend. What I would do is crate a forum for projects I have posted to my site so that other can leave feedback, ask questions, etc. This isn't easy to do with the current format. My next goal was to set up a member forum for hosting member projects. Considering the kind of traffic I am hoping to generate that would mean members would have significant views of their projects. I think I would limit hosted pictures to 1024x768, and encourage videos to be linked from YouTube, but other than that I would host these projects as well. Besides, we can all collaberate more easily in a specialized forum.
I checked into this out of curiosity and found that the Flight Data System of the Voyager spacecraft actually does use a tape recorder for data storage.
WBA, OBC, etc...I got the forums online. Feel free to check them out. I think I have all the categories and boards I intended, but if I missed something or you have something to suggest, go ahead and post it in the forum feedback board.
Remember, I could still use some comments on the Blog in regards to the show, content, etc.
Comments
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
I started with a TS-1000, and one of the things I learned was from the intro, something like, "You are smarter than your computer. In fact, your canary is smarter than your computer." Learned BASIC and a little ASM with the TS (that stood for "Turtle-Slow" didn't it?), then advanced to the CoCo. Unfortunately, my TS experience produced some odd moments: I'd enter "10 P" and wonder where the rest of "PRINT" was! -- the TS would complete the word for you.
The CoCo2 expanded, and I tried OS-9, then I went on to the CoCo3. Along the way, I got a Model 100, and was forced to get an IBM PC clone so I could fiddle with my work at home.
Before we moved, and a lot of stuff got packed away, I had my 512K CoCo3 running as what would be called a server today, with the Model 100 as one terminal, and the clone as a second. The clone had much better editors, so I'd use it to write BASIC09 programs, and download them to compile and debug them on the CoCo.
I think the older computers were good because (1) you could get your head wrapped around them, and (2) they were hackable -- my CoCo2 had LEDs on the front of the case showing when info was going through the serial port.
--Rich
Owner of TS-1000, CoCo2&3, C64, TRS-80 Model100, AIM-65.
That was 21 years ago! But somehow I managed to remember the Basic language. Basic Stamps are probably equal to the MC10 in computing power, just lacking the keyboard.
Then I guess I fell off the earth for a while and my next computer is the one I'm typing on.
I still have the TRS-80, probably should put it on e-bay.
Cheers Mike2545
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
(that one needed a new power connector and to have a shorted cap replaced. The smell of solder... pheromones for geeks... )
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Don't visit my new website...
--Rich
Then, they were runnable out of the box in a way today's computers aren't: take out the computer, hang the adapter onto your TV, and away you go! Now the computer plays "50 Questions" with you, and God help you if you don't know the answer!
The G.A. 'puters were "human-sized" and individual. Today, all computers are box-shaped, and look just about the same. Whereas you can tell with a glance which is the TS-1000, CoCo, Model I, Apple ][noparse][[/noparse]e, etc.
And I believe they all had ports of one kind or another, allowing access to the buses. Sure, it wasn't idiot proof, but we were a little smarter back then. ;D And people developed stuff for those ports. I have a photocopy of several Radio-Electronics articles on how to add non-volatile RAM to the TS-1000, and how to set up a security system for the same.
Maybe, when our spouses ask, "What are you DOING with all that junk?" we should reply, "It's my hobby, dear. Be glad I don't work on old cars!"
--Rich
You might be able to find the answer on this site:
http://tim-mann.org/trs80faq.html
Also some interesting stuff in David and Thersa's book (They still live in the area):
http://www.explainamation.com/trash80/trash80.htm
If you can't find it let me know and I can look it up the next time I stop by my parents place. I'm sure I still have the Model I technical manual over there and can look it up.
Robert
Post Edited (RobotWorkshop) : 2/5/2009 7:14:57 PM GMT
{Of course she knew she was marring a geek when she said "yes" years ago, makes this stuff a lot easier}
She has mastered the art of "That's truly nice dear" when I'm blabbering on about some
techno gadget like I've just discovered the cure for cancer. A good woman.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
I've not had much to add to this post, as I'm no where near an old school hacker. But with this statement, you have crossed the line, sir. You better watch it!!!
-Parsko
I ended the comments by my better half about not throwing anything electronic away about a decade ago. I was asked by a local business about an application they wanted to buy and told them "I have everything you need and can provide it as a service at a lower cost". They said yes and I threw it together from parts out of my junk box. The system ran for over three years at $75/month. When it broke the first $1000 in income, all comments about the old junk stopped and suddenly she could see there may be some value in all that old stuff in my workshop / office / garage....
…and then there’s the Garage Parking Assistant in the Completed Projects section…
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
Another is that 'they were part of the revolution, man'.
Is there any other field where the progress has been greater in as short a time as in the computer field?
There's also the knowledge that 'all the great ones' started out on this type of kit in their garage or basement and built a fortune or three out of them.
And the final reason is that many of us grew up playing games on them... ;-)
And yes, I sometimes miss the 'good old times'...
Particularly when the 'latest and best' doesn't deliver.
(I'm fighting a Win2003 install on a new server at work. Bleagh! )
Then it's REALLY nice to get home, fire up an old computer and go straight into tinkering mode without all the compatibility issues or driver problems.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Don't visit my new website...
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
I used to have a project site before I came to Parallax. Right before I was to move to CA my ISP in NY had to shut it down several times due to excessive traffic cause by posts from /. and similar sites. By the time I got settled out here I didn’t have the time to maintain the site anymore and I took it down.
Recently I started rebuilding the site…from scratch. What I aim to do is get the majority of my projects back online and then start posting new projects to the site at least once a month. Interim discussion of projects would be posted to my blog, final projects would be posted to the project site itself and pictures that weren’t part of the project page would be posted to the photo gallery.
I have also installed forum software so that once things grow enough we can open it up and have some real discussions on electronics and projects in general. Everything should be up by the end of the month, but I am posting now because I am looking for feedback, comments, suggestions, etc. from those that know me through the forums. Stop in, visit and leave a comment in the blog or send me an e-mail at the site.
By the end of the month there will be more regarding the tech show I mentioned in the blog. I will be soliciting ideas from those that wish to share them. So, if you’re interested, visit the following pages and leave your feedback.
http://www.savagecircuits.com
http://blog.savagecircuits.com
http://photos.savagecircuits.com
http://forums.savagecircuits.com
I also have a YouTube channel at:
http://www.youtube.com/savagecircuits
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
50 72 6F 6A 65 63 74 20 53 69 74 65
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Excellent work! Nice selection of projects. I was very much brought into your world and can relate.
Great job and keep it up.
PS: I also noticed the HEX numbers link on your signature. Very clever. I decoded it with an ascii table. Pretty cool. I like it!
Post Edited (T&E Engineer) : 10/1/2009 11:24:25 AM GMT
Nice site.. Keep the content coming! I too couldn't resist deciphering your hex codes last month. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Agree with T&E, your website is awesome. I already placed it on my favourite list, beside parallax forums. I wonder how you get time do all those things.
Also very interesting stuff in this thread too on the old fasion home computers. There is a ZX-81 somewhere in my house too, I still remember·25 years or so, back in time sitting programming the little black plastic box with that aweful keyboard. I remember I upgraded with·an external keyboard and even 16 kb RAM! Not bad! I still have magazines from that days with glory pictures of the '81 and the Spectrum. Thanks to Sir Clive for bringing those wonderful things to the world.
Not to forget the CBM-64, spent so many late hours with that one! I remember I've got a floppy disk drive to my CBM, I even bought a color monitor too.
I've done your HEX-signature too, some time ago, decoded it with the MS Windows calculator, not bad at all!
Glad you liked the sig line teaser...I knew it would be decoded by the true hackers and these would be the ones I would like to see visiting the site. Moskog, if you read the About section on the website you'd see the reason I put this post in this thread. It represents my humble beginnings and where I want to go from here. Ideally, I'd like to see the forums opened for discussion of the existing projects, but I want to make sure there is enough interest. So hopefully more will stop by and with enough feedback I will get things to where they need to be and start posting more projects. Thanks again guys.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
50 72 6F 6A 65 63 74 20 53 69 74 65
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I love these kinds of websites
- Mark
- Mark
- Mark
Now to set up a P/S and do the "Magic Smoke Test"
--Rich
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
WBA-TH1M Sensirion SHT11 Module
Special Olympics Polar Bear Plunge, Mar 20, 2010
Any other thoughts on this from anyone else?
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
50 72 6F 6A 65 63 74 20 53 69 74 65
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voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/index.html
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- Rick
Remember, I could still use some comments on the Blog in regards to the show, content, etc.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
50 72 6F 6A 65 63 74 20 53 69 74 65
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