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Old School Hackers

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  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-04-08 13:14
    Want to know what frustration is?

    It is receiving a Kaypro 10 (that's the model vith the 10MB HDD) and finding that it doesn't boot. (The HDD may be a goner, not certain yet)
    Strangely enough, I haven't been able to find disk images of the original floppies anywhere on the net, either...
    I tried the Osborne 1 floppy, but that didn't work.
    (It's not as if they all used the same standard...)
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-06-04 15:59
    Playing games and thinking that equates to being good at computing equals being L337, but being old able to write about a piece of Hardware in english automatically disqualifies you from being L337.

    I'd say you're safe...
    Besides, being able to write a 'Hello world' program on a BS2 is enough to prove that you know more about computers than 99% of the L337...

    Got any other pieces of HW that we might be interested in hearing about?
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-06-04 22:56
    Jsjga said...(trimmed)
    P.S. This is what this part of the alphabet would look like if "Q" and "R" were eliminated.
    Hmmm, don't quite get that one...

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • FreezeSukkaFreezeSukka Posts: 41
    edited 2005-06-05 00:45
    Just something stupid that I heard one day that's all!· Actually has nothing to do with anything except for the letters "P·& S".· Saying that P.S. is what the alphabet would look like in the case of a couple of missing letters "Q & R"··hop.gif·tongue.gif

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    P.S. This is what this part of the alphabet would look like if "Q" and "R" were eliminated.
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-06-05 11:00
    There is some irony in the fact that now if you goto boards like the Defcon message board they don't tolerate 'leet speak' (using numbers for letters, horrible grammar, etc)-

    I too started on an old Sinclar 1000....I wrote code to keep track of my school schedule...not bad for a grade school kid back then!

    I also remember the disappointment I had when I wrote on my IBM PCjr (with wireless keyboard!) a basic program to pick a random X, a random Y, and a random color and plot the point on the screen...I set the program running, and went to bed- only to find a very distinct pattern on the screen in the morning. The discovery of why the pattern (and not a very good 'random' implementation on the PCjr) lead me to my eventual course of study in college many years later....

    Ryan
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-06-05 18:09
    Ahhh,

    ·· The PC Jr...Now there was a classic...As I recall didn't it boot into BASIC if you didn't have a Bootable DOS disk inserted?· Oh, and the way back then to randomize your seed was to use the TIME$ function with RANDOMIZE to get a true random value, since the clock is always changing.



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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Charlie JohnsonCharlie Johnson Posts: 147
    edited 2005-06-06 14:43
    Wow, this thread sure does brings back memories, that is why is has such staying power. My first computer experiance was in the early 70's. I was part of a project class of high school students that were able to take Military courses at the local Naval Air Station (North Island, Ca.), It did not hurt my chances of being in the program as my then girlfriend's father was an instructor in the computer training center. The computer we had access to used paper tape and was used for the Satellite navigation system that preceeded the current GPS system. My first computer was a TRS-80 purchased in 1977, 4K RAM and 4K ROM Basic. I was hooked after that. Apple II+, Commadore Amiga 1000, 2000 and 4000. Now the BASIC Stamp.

    Charlie
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-06-06 14:57
    ·· Interestingly enough I programmed the BASIC language on all the systems you mentioned, although the Amiga BASIC was one of the strangest implementations I had seen...ever use the CHAIN command?· Similar to RUN on the BASIC Stamp.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • NewzedNewzed Posts: 2,503
    edited 2005-06-06 15:02
    Chris, the CHAIN let's you call another program from within a program, then you can CHAIN back to the original program.· I know of nothing similar in PBasic - wish there was.· Then I could load any program in my directory.· That's like have a Stamp with a hundred slots!!

    Sid
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-06-06 16:28
    Sid,

    ·· The CHAIN command in AmigaBASIC (As I recall) effectively RUNs another program.· To return to the original program you would have to CHAIN from the other program.· Also if memory serves, no variables were preserved.· I am pretty sure we used to save them out prior to using the CHAIN command.· I wasn't aware you had used the Amiga computer Sid.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • NewzedNewzed Posts: 2,503
    edited 2005-06-06 17:13
    I used CHAIN when I was writing programs in GW-Basic 3.22 a couple of hundred years ago.· I wrote dozens and dozens of programs.· The most complex program I ever wrote was for use with Flight Simulator 5.· It calculated the bearing and distance from point A to Point B, and used the formula for Great Circle bearings.· If you have ever seen that formula, it's a doozy.· It came out pretty accurate because Basic could handle decimals up to 6 places, I think.· I calculated the distance and bearing one time from Natal, Brazil to Dakar, Senegal, taking in to account the differences in magnetic variation - did you know there is a large spot in the South Atlantic where the magnetic variation is 26 degrees? - and missed Dakar by only 10 miles!

    Whatever happened to all the good old stuff?

    Sid
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-06-06 17:57
    Sid,

    ·· I still have a copy of QuickBASIC 4.5 laying around somewhere, and possibly PDS7.· I still have entire applications that I wrote in these from many years ago...Some still work (The simpler ones) although amazingly they slow XP right down to a crawl when running.


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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Charlie JohnsonCharlie Johnson Posts: 147
    edited 2005-06-06 18:21
    Sid wrote

    "Whatever happened to all the good old stuff?"

    Check out

    http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2005-06-06 20:15
    I found it!!!!

    I was going through some old papers last night, and I found TIM (The Information Machine)

    TIM 'is' / 'still is'·a very basic Assembly code that was designed for punch card systems.



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    Beau Schwabe

    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax, Inc.
    TIM.JPG
    796 x 1000 - 112K
    TIM.JPG 112.5K
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-06-06 20:41
    Beau,
    What this a actual computer (existed). And it used decimal instead of hex ?
    Weird... (well seems weird by todays standards).
    Bean.

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    "SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95

    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012

    Product web site: www.sxvm.com

    "It's not getting what you want, it's wanting what you've got."
    ·
  • PLJackPLJack Posts: 398
    edited 2005-06-06 22:03
    Now I understand why programmers of the time had thick black rimmed glasses and no girlfriend.

    So these 100 memory locations, were they stored in a grid?
    0xx and 4xy seem to suggest that.

    3xx and 8xx seem the only flow control options.

    5xx, printed where? Punch card?

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    Jack
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-06-06 23:07
    You are truly old if you know the horror of dropping a box of punch cards.... [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Ryan
  • SPENCESPENCE Posts: 204
    edited 2005-06-06 23:40
    RYAN,
    YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HORROR IS.

    HORROR IS A FORKLIFT DUMPING A 6' HIGH PALLET OF PUNCHCARDS
    IN YOUR OFFICE AND YOU ARE THE ONLY QUALIFIED KEYPUNCH ON THE BASE.

    HORROR IS A TOTAL SYSTEM DUMP OF YOUR WORKCENTER IN PRINTOUT FORM ON YOUR DESK.

    HORROR IS A "4 CASE DELETE CARD SET" FOR EVERYTHING ON YOUR WORKCENTER ON THE DESK.

    HORROR IS DUPE, MODIFY AND UPDATE DUE IN 30 DAYS AND YOUR QC JOB HAS TO BE KEPT UP WITH AT THE SAME TIME.

    THAT IS HORROR

    73
    SPENCE
    K4KEP

    Post Edited (SPENCE) : 6/6/2005 11:44:52 PM GMT
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-06-07 18:42
    Hehehe.

    Glad you understand Spence. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Ryan
  • mmmm Posts: 56
    edited 2005-06-07 23:23
    Oh boy I guess I'm not that old after all. I was waiting to see if I was really really old before I posted anything. My first wasn't a real PC at all, it was a heathkit Motorola MC6801 programmer/trainer, everything and I mean everything was entered in via HEX from the keypad.

    I used it first as a ham radio Morse code sender/reader and then as a repeater controller and later on as a home alarm system.

    Later in the early 80's I entered the world of real PC's if you can call it that with a VIC-20 but still running native 6502 code on the printer ports limited memory section. All this was called from within some basic code that was loaded in with those crappy cassette drives which took 3 or 4 tries to load the program.

    compared to the BS2 which I now use for various RF functions (I'm and Rf designer by trade) those old machines were very primative, it took weeks with the 6801 and 6502 to do what I can now do in hours with the BS2.


    Mike
  • HulkHulk Posts: 68
    edited 2005-06-11 03:03
    If dropping a deck is old- how old if you used BOT?

    Anyone ever used Black Oiled Tape?



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    8184265-56bd-00410041-.jpg

    Basic stamp Newbie
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-06-11 03:19
    WOW!

    ·· We're starting to get really Old-School here!· Punch-cards and...Well, I've never ever heard of the Tape Stuff...

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2005-06-11 12:14
    Paper tape was commonly used to control NCDrill and NCRoute machines made in the 70's and 80's. The printed circuit board manufacturer I worked for a few years ago had a couple of these machines and a few thousand tapes - they worked well and had a long shelf life. The drill/route tapes were in EIA format (not ASCII) and we could read/write tapes with a PC interfaced thru a RS-232 interface. We used this setup until 1995 - when we bought tape emulators for the drill/route machines and networked everything together with ethernet.

    Here's an example of a paper tape reader/punch www.wps.com/projects/paper-tape/
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-06-19 22:07
    Is it OK to plug my site here?

    Anyway, it's at www.TotallyTrygve.com
    I'll be uploading info and pictures of my (about 150) computers there...

    Anyway, I've just set up a forum using PHPBB2, and well...
    www.totallytrygve.com/phpBB2/

    The forum isn't linked at the homepage, yet, and won't be before I'm happy with the forums, groups and rules.
    In other words, I'm looking for oldschoolers like me to give me some feedback as to what is missing and to generally get things going...

    Just no L337 speak or ALL CAPS...
    (my forum, my rules... smile.gif

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    Don't visit my new website...
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-10-11 03:15
    Hackers...It's been awhile since anyone has posted in this thread...Just thought I'd bring it up for any New Forum Members who fit the bill...You know who you are.· =)

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-10-30 23:34
    Any Old-School hackers out there that may have their old Z80 software, including a Z80 Disassembler capable of handling the actual binary (OBJ) file (As opposed to the HEX file)?

    If so, I am looking for someone who can disassemble a file for me.· Compensation available...PM me if you're interested, and have the ability to do this.· Don't worry, the object file clearly states that I am the original author.· I just lost my original source files to old/damaged floppy disks and had to read an early test file from an old 27C256 EEPROM.· =(

    I was looking to convert some of my old routines into SX ASM subroutines.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Robert KubichekRobert Kubichek Posts: 343
    edited 2005-10-31 00:05
    Chris Savage (Parallax) said...
    Any Old-School hackers out there that may have their old Z80 software, including a Z80 Disassembler capable of handling the actual binary (OBJ) file (As opposed to the HEX file)?

    If so, I am looking for someone who can disassemble a file for me. Compensation available...PM me if you're interested, and have the ability to do this. Don't worry, the object file clearly states that I am the original author. I just lost my original source files to old/damaged floppy disks and had to read an early test file from an old 27C256 EEPROM. =(


    I was looking to convert some of my old routines into SX ASM subroutines.

    Try this link, it was written for the Mac;

    www.markus-fritze.de/z80/

    Or this one, as it contains a wealth of links;

    www.z80.info/z80sdt.htm

    Or these, for disassembling Z80 code;

    directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Disassemblers/8-Bit/Z80/


    Good luck! freaked.gif

    Bob N9LVU scool.gif

    Post Edited (Robert Kubichek) : 10/31/2005 12:13:19 AM GMT
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-10-31 00:13
    Robert,

    ·· I checked most of the resources.· Fact is, I don't work with the Z80 anymore, so I figured if I could find someone who still did and could do this, it might be worth something...· =)

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-10-31 00:30
    Robert,

    ·· I went ahead and tried a few other disassemblers found via Google...I realized something...Actually, I remembered a crucial detail...I used to embed data into my routines rather than keeping it in DATA blocks.· It was a little trick to keep people from disassembling my code.· Of course, now it is making it difficult for me to disassemble.· Anyway, I have RAW source now, and I will still need to go through it with a fine-tooth comb to see what I can pull from it.· Thanks.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • SPENCESPENCE Posts: 204
    edited 2005-10-31 00:52
    CHRIS,

    SUGGEST YOU CONTACT DAVE DUNFIELD. HE IA A HAM. WRITES C AND ASSEMBLER. HE MIGHT JUST BE WHO YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

    Welcome to Dunfield Development Services
    bullet, Want to know more about Micro-C and our other software development tools? ...
    bullet, Monday October 10th, 2005 (Thanksgiving Day - Canada) ...
    www.dunfield.com/ - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

    73
    SPENCE
    K4KEP
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