Two months have passed now, so I think it's time to bring this topic to the front, again...
Has anybody used the boards for anything?
I found out that the 24AA025E48 chips in SOT23-5 packages are now sold out worldwide. There are still some available in SO-8 package but as Microchip seems to have severe supply chain problems I would no longer count on that. The 24AA025E48 is very special as it offers an extra address pin which allows use of both, a normal boot EEPROM and a MAC rom on the same SDA/SCL lines which is necessary for my P1 solutions. But for the P2 accessory board we are not restricted to that. So we could simply use a standard 24C02 which is available from plenty of manufacturers.
But I don't know how "safe" it is to use just a random (self generated) number as MAC address.
Yes, I mean the assignment of MAC numbers isn't a national law, just a loose agreement between implementors of the ethernet standard. I haven't signed anything so they can't sue me for violating any contract. The chances that a doublicate number will cause any conflict is rather low. As long as I don't claim the products fulfill a standard or use a foreign trademark I shouldn't get in trouble, I think.
I agree 100%. It is a legal nothingburger, so long as you don't misrepresent the product.
This is how I solved the problem of no MAC for the W6100. First, I checked to see if there is a config on the the SD card. The config holds the MAC, so it doesn't change unless you wipe the config. If no config was found, I would generate a MAC, and save the config. I used the Wiznet OUI 00:08:DC and then three random octets using the PRNG. That way, it was easy to identify the device by manufacturer. The PRNG has never generated the same MAC though my testing.
I think using an OUI of manufacturer of the chip and random for the specific NIC works well.
I started looking at mdio and rmii back then to understand they work, in order to make a driver in my style (I think I tried the files you posted and was able to get them to work also? I don't remember for sure though). Between that and learning TCP/IP for another mac/phy chip I got a bit burnt out on networking in general, so gave it a rest for a bit. I'll probably come back to it soon though.
I have a driver for this board that does UDP, but I ran into something of an architectural roadblock when I realized that I had to add a proper timer scheduling subsystem to support TCP, DHCP, a complete ARP implementation, and pretty much any other reliable protocol. I'll eventually get back to working on this once I actually need it for the thing I'll need it for.
Thanks @ke4pjw , that was exactly wghat I've also planned. Take the first 3 bytes (manufacturer ID) from the Microchip 24AA025E48 I've already bought many 1000s of so I don't step on somebody else's feet. The remaining 3 bytes can be a random number to minimize the possibility of conflicts with existing devices.
Thanks @avsa242 and @Electrodude for the status report. My own work has also beem delayd a bit recently due to other software development on the PC but I will hopefully continue with the P2 ethernet project soon.
I'm a bit busy at the moment but I've just ordered another 20 boards from JLC because I also got requests from others. If you want to order from OSHpark, I've attached the gerber files for the Panel as they were produced last time (see post #34). I've also made a slightly modified layout with the SMD pin header as Parallax uses them for the accessory boards. I've attached the Eagle file. If you need anything else (BOM, placement file...) please say so.
I wonder if you could just use some obscure manufactorer's MAC prefix and add a running number or a random one. There must be MAC addresses that belong to some long forgotten ethernet cards that are not sold anymore for a long time now.
@Simonius said:
I wonder if you could just use some obscure manufactorer's MAC prefix and add a running number or a random one. There must be MAC addresses that belong to some long forgotten ethernet cards that are not sold anymore for a long time now.
Do these come with the transformer ? (either already mounted or loose, I don't really care)
Do you distribute them or does @Erna do it ? (he might just throw in a couple of KISS boards to the package as well on that occassion)
Yes, of course they'll come with RJ45 jack including transformers and fully tested. I just wasn't ready when I took the picture.
Who distributes them? Good question. If @Electrodude is the only one I'll send him the boards directly. If there is more demand I'll ask Publison for US and ErNa for Europe.
btw. why not use the Parallax Style connectors (upper side mounted) ? Or have connectors on the other side of the board ... or both;) just a suggestion to save the empty space between the two boards
I already had the Parallax style connectors in a new layout but that would require changing the SMT stencil and the P&P program. I decided that it is easier and less expensive to build a small batch with the old layout, again.
OK, I'll ship ~10 units to Publison for distribution in the USA and I'll ask ErNa if he wants to take care of Europe.
@ManAtWork said:
I already had the Parallax style connectors in a new layout but that would require changing the SMT stencil and the P&P program. I decided that it is easier and less expensive to build a small batch with the old layout, again.
OK, I'll ship ~10 units to Publison for distribution in the USA and I'll ask ErNa if he wants to take care of Europe.
Electrodude 1..2 USA
avsa242 1..2 USA
Simonius 1..2 Germany
Maciek 1..4 Poland
Sergey 2 Ireland
US customers, please PM with your address so I can update my address book.
Comments
I got mine today. It works! Thanks!
Two months have passed now, so I think it's time to bring this topic to the front, again...
Has anybody used the boards for anything?
I found out that the 24AA025E48 chips in SOT23-5 packages are now sold out worldwide. There are still some available in SO-8 package but as Microchip seems to have severe supply chain problems I would no longer count on that. The 24AA025E48 is very special as it offers an extra address pin which allows use of both, a normal boot EEPROM and a MAC rom on the same SDA/SCL lines which is necessary for my P1 solutions. But for the P2 accessory board we are not restricted to that. So we could simply use a standard 24C02 which is available from plenty of manufacturers.
But I don't know how "safe" it is to use just a random (self generated) number as MAC address.
Microchip's problems will most likely be from the toilet paper hoarders. There'll be a rebounding glut soon enough.
You mean legally?
Yes, I mean the assignment of MAC numbers isn't a national law, just a loose agreement between implementors of the ethernet standard. I haven't signed anything so they can't sue me for violating any contract. The chances that a doublicate number will cause any conflict is rather low. As long as I don't claim the products fulfill a standard or use a foreign trademark I shouldn't get in trouble, I think.
I agree 100%. It is a legal nothingburger, so long as you don't misrepresent the product.
This is how I solved the problem of no MAC for the W6100. First, I checked to see if there is a config on the the SD card. The config holds the MAC, so it doesn't change unless you wipe the config. If no config was found, I would generate a MAC, and save the config. I used the Wiznet OUI 00:08:DC and then three random octets using the PRNG. That way, it was easy to identify the device by manufacturer. The PRNG has never generated the same MAC though my testing.
I think using an OUI of manufacturer of the chip and random for the specific NIC works well.
I started looking at mdio and rmii back then to understand they work, in order to make a driver in my style (I think I tried the files you posted and was able to get them to work also? I don't remember for sure though). Between that and learning TCP/IP for another mac/phy chip I got a bit burnt out on networking in general, so gave it a rest for a bit. I'll probably come back to it soon though.
I have a driver for this board that does UDP, but I ran into something of an architectural roadblock when I realized that I had to add a proper timer scheduling subsystem to support TCP, DHCP, a complete ARP implementation, and pretty much any other reliable protocol. I'll eventually get back to working on this once I actually need it for the thing I'll need it for.
Thanks @ke4pjw , that was exactly wghat I've also planned. Take the first 3 bytes (manufacturer ID) from the Microchip 24AA025E48 I've already bought many 1000s of so I don't step on somebody else's feet. The remaining 3 bytes can be a random number to minimize the possibility of conflicts with existing devices.
Thanks @avsa242 and @Electrodude for the status report. My own work has also beem delayd a bit recently due to other software development on the PC but I will hopefully continue with the P2 ethernet project soon.
I'd like a few more of your PHY accessory boards. Can you post the design on OSHpark or share the gerbers or design files here or something? Thanks.
I'm a bit busy at the moment but I've just ordered another 20 boards from JLC because I also got requests from others. If you want to order from OSHpark, I've attached the gerber files for the Panel as they were produced last time (see post #34). I've also made a slightly modified layout with the SMD pin header as Parallax uses them for the accessory boards. I've attached the Eagle file. If you need anything else (BOM, placement file...) please say so.
I wonder if you could just use some obscure manufactorer's MAC prefix and add a running number or a random one. There must be MAC addresses that belong to some long forgotten ethernet cards that are not sold anymore for a long time now.
You can use a 'private' mac-address:
https://www.oasys.net/fragments/identify-private-macs/ OR
https://superuser.com/questions/907827/private-mac-address OR
https://serverfault.com/questions/40712/what-range-of-mac-addresses-can-i-safely-use-for-my-virtual-machines
Those ones are consider to be under your control
I've just assembled another 20 accessory boards.
Anyone interested?
I'd like one or maybe two more.
Does it make sense to ship a bundle of 5 or 10 to @Publison for distribution in the USA, again?
If there is enough interest, I will do it.
I might be.
Do these come with the transformer ? (either already mounted or loose, I don't really care)
Do you distribute them or does @Erna do it ? (he might just throw in a couple of KISS boards to the package as well on that occassion)
Yes, of course they'll come with RJ45 jack including transformers and fully tested. I just wasn't ready when I took the picture.
Who distributes them? Good question. If @Electrodude is the only one I'll send him the boards directly. If there is more demand I'll ask Publison for US and ErNa for Europe.
@ManAtWork ,
I've sent you a PM .
Thanks. Maciek
I'd still take one...two if available. (USA)
Cheers
I would take one or two
@ManAtWork
btw. why not use the Parallax Style connectors (upper side mounted) ? Or have connectors on the other side of the board ... or both;) just a suggestion to save the empty space between the two boards
I already had the Parallax style connectors in a new layout but that would require changing the SMT stencil and the P&P program. I decided that it is easier and less expensive to build a small batch with the old layout, again.
OK, I'll ship ~10 units to Publison for distribution in the USA and I'll ask ErNa if he wants to take care of Europe.
Cool, thanks.
Let us know ErNa's answer, please.
I'm ready to do the shipment but will be out of office next week for some vacation.
Excellent news!
Good things are worth the wait.
Enjoy your vacation and let us know how to proceed further when you're back.
US customers, please PM with your address so I can update my address book.
16 boards are tested successfully. I'll ship out 8 to Publison and 8 to ErNa on monday.
Hi, I'm back from recreation and as ManAtWork told, 8 boards are available. So please place orders at info@nascma.com.
I did this, 6 days ago
Craig