These look really nice- I managed to get mine before the UK left europe.
For those purchasing in the UK - beware extra import charges from Germany!!!
see this-https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/buying-online-from-europe-post-brexit/
If the order is greater than £135 you can run up a lot of extra charges.
@ManAtWork - have you experienced this?
@ManAtWork said:
Yesterday, I've assembled 176 of the KISS boards with SD card. So now we have 248 boards alltogether.
Unfortunatelly, we have a bit of bad timing. Assembly and testing got delayd because of the SPI flash problem. I've been on holiday the last week and now ErNa who volunteered for organising all the shipment is on vacation for two weeks. So distribution won't start before August 30th. Hopefully I can send some of the boards to Publison, earlier.
Ready for any shipments you can send my way for North America distribution.
Zzzooommmm....
The KISS-boards are now availabe in the EU! Orders can be placed by email to info@nascma.com . Two boards are available: KISS0000, the original KISS and KISS0001, the sd-card version. They are prized € 20 and € 25 respectively included VAT (19%). Shipment fees will be added accordingly, we have to evaluate the cheapest channel. We will supply a paypal link after acceptance of the order.
To answer an obvious question: how is this possible? Thanks to the joint efforts of Parallax, ManAtWork, the community and NaScMa.
The goal is to lower the threshold to enter the World Of P2 and to make use of the FORTH. So join the party ..... it's up to you!
I will be receiving an order of 30 KIS0001 boards to the US in the next week for distribution to North America. Price will be $29.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope.
I still have 16 KISS0000 without SD for $23.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope. Shipping $14.50 to Canada.
@ErNa said:
Zzzooommmm....
The KISS-boards are now availabe in the EU! Orders can be placed by email to info@nascma.com . Two boards are available: KISS0000, the original KISS and KISS0001, the sd-card version. They are prized € 20 and € 25 respectively included VAT (19%). Shipment fees will be added accordingly, we have to evaluate the cheapest channel. We will supply a paypal link after acceptance of the order.
To answer an obvious question: how is this possible? Thanks to the joint efforts of Parallax, ManAtWork, the community and NaScMa.
The goal is to lower the threshold to enter the World Of P2 and to make use of the FORTH. So join the party ..... it's up to you!
This is great news! I had placed an order immediately. When do you think, that shipment can start?
Thanks a lot! Christof
@Publison said:
I will be receiving an order of 30 KIS0001 boards to the US in the next week for distribution to North America. Price will be $29.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope.
I still have 16 KISS0000 without SD for $23.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope.
You can use my PayPal account in my sig.
32 New boards (KIS0001) arrived in the US for North America sales.
I am interested in this can you tell me where to get some info on this board. Does it boot up the same as edge?
I am in Canada Cambridge Ont. Will pay for extra shipping. How do you want to recive payment? I assume US dollars.
Thanks and Regards
Bob (WRD)
@"Bob Drury" said:
I am interested in this can you tell me where to get some info on this board. Does it boot up the same as edge?
I am in Canada Cambridge Ont. Will pay for extra shipping. How do you want to recive payment? I assume US dollars.
Thanks and Regards
Bob (WRD)
Are you looking for the original or the new board that has the SD card?
First post in this tread has some updated info as of yesterday. PM me for payment instructions.
I'm having a bit of trouble with my KISS0000 - it does NOT like to run at over 300MHz internal P2 clock. Is this a limitation of the KISS, or is something wrong over here? Everything seems to work fine up to 300MHz - at anything higher, it just crashes and does nothing.
In other news, I built a little 'adapter board' so you can use Parallax P2 modules that use two adjacent connectors. It's real simple, and it will only fit in two places - it's left-handed. You need right-handed ones if you want to use all eight connectors. Here's a couple little pictures - the boards by themselves, and with a HyperRam card plugged in.
Let me know if anyone's interested, and I'll post the Eagle files and/or Gerbers for the lil' thingy. 'ta! S.
I thought that the official max. clock frequency was 180MHz. Everything above is overclocking at your own risk. It might work but there is no guarantee. Interestingly the current data sheet does not specify any maximum rating for the clock. It could be that other boards work above 300MHz and the KISS board doesn't because of limitations in the voltage regulator, heat sinking or too few bypass capacitors. Or it's just good or bad luck.
The adapter board is a good idea. Do you know a PCB house that offers design sharing ("open source")? It would be nice if others could order the board without the need for you or anybody else taking care of orders, stock, payment etc. (if you are willing to share it, of course). I think DirtyPCB offered that service, JLC doesn't.
Could be the 25 Mhz vs 20 MHz XINFREQ thing. Maybe the hardware doesn't like it as much, maybe the clkmode selection isn't really tuned right for 25 MHz. You are specifying _XINFREQ = 25_000_000, right?
@ManAtWork said:
I thought that the official max. clock frequency was 180MHz. Everything above is overclocking at your own risk. It might work but there is no guarantee. Interestingly the current data sheet does not specify any maximum rating for the clock. It could be that other boards work above 300MHz and the KISS board doesn't because of limitations in the voltage regulator, heat sinking or too few bypass capacitors. Or it's just good or bad luck.
The adapter board is a good idea. Do you know a PCB house that offers design sharing ("open source")? It would be nice if others could order the board without the need for you or anybody else taking care of orders, stock, payment etc. (if you are willing to share it, of course). I think DirtyPCB offered that service, JLC doesn't.
Per the Data Sheet 320Mhz is attainable but does not say if heat sink and perfect voltage components need to be in place as @ManAtWork said.
@Wuerfel_21 said:
Could be the 25 Mhz vs 20 MHz XINFREQ thing. Maybe the hardware doesn't like it as much, maybe the clkmode selection isn't really tuned right for 25 MHz. You are specifying _XINFREQ = 25_000_000, right?
I was using " _xtlfreq " (If you don't, all your baud rates are wildly off! ) I believe they're equivalent, no?
I may have been spoiled by my P2 Edge, which seems perfectly cheerful at 350. It's possible I could put better power on my KISS boards as well. Will try that sometime. Thanks, all.
Give me a bit, and I'll post all the relevant files. It's a really trivial little board. It might have my name on it... S.
Here's the Eagle (7.6) files, the board and the schematic (yes, they're trivial, but it's still important) as .brd and .sch
Here also is a Gerber package, made up for JLC (although other houses might be happy with them as well) as .zip
It's trivial enough that copyright is probably irrelevant, but consider this me putting it into the Public Domain. If you want to scrape my name off and put yours on, knock yourself out.
Design remarks: It's a two-layer board. All traces are on the front. The back is a ground plane. There are no components except for connectors. If you're expecting equal-length and other ultra-high-speed board design tricks you're out of luck. It works fine up to 300MHz, and that's as far as I could test it. It's "left-handed" - there's only two places you can use it on a KISS board without it interfering with another 12-pin connector. If enough people scream for a right-handed one, I might be bribable. Let me know if you have any other questions...
@Scroungre said:
I was using " _xtlfreq " (If you don't, all your baud rates are wildly off! ) I believe they're equivalent, no?
The difference between them is _xtlfreq selects an internal capacitor for crystal stability while _xinfreq doesn't. Otherwise they are the same, and typically combined with the PLL by also specifying _clkfreq.
They all act as compile-time switches for instructing which code to include for sysclock setup.
PS: If only _clkfreq is specified then _xltfreq = 20 MHz is assumed for the Parallax Eval Boards. Amusingly this doesn't suit the upcoming revC Edge Board using the external oscillator. A lot of example source code is going to want a _xinfreq = 20_000_000 line added to the start.
PPS: I feel having it explicit in examples is a good thing. Then it is clearer to all on how to set up for any given board.
@Scroungre said:
I'm having a bit of trouble with my KISS0000 - it does NOT like to run at over 300MHz internal P2 clock. Is this a limitation of the KISS, or is something wrong over here? Everything seems to work fine up to 300MHz - at anything higher, it just crashes and does nothing.
Maybe its the same problem I have with the KISS. I tried to use it with a 2MB sram. At higher speeds I got errors when doing write/reads to the sram. Thought it might be down to the P28-31 port problem but got no such corruption when using a different brand of P2 board at any speed. Ripped out the 25Mhz xtal as suggested elsewhere but that made no difference…
which shows excellent results up to 300MHz. The tests (the whole board!) promptly conked out at anything over 300MHz. My spec sheets for the P2 chip itself don't include an 'Absolute Maximum Ratings' block, so I dunno what the top speed for the chip really is. Seems most assumed it was 350MHz, and that does work okay in the Edge module I have.
I'm afraid that sooner or later, Mr. Benezan will have to bite the bullet and buy some 20MHz crystals. Yeah, it'll break code compatibility - but it's what Parallax does, and they built the darn chip, so presumably they know what they are doing. S.
All P2 boards do have different top speeds. P2D2 and RetroBlade2 seem to go the highest at around 380MHz (either 385 or 375MHz - cannot recall). Chip said the P2EVAL P2EDGE was lower at 350-360?? He did a comparison between the P2EVAL and RetroBlade2. Note I don't use a switcher so the power/ground lines are indeed quieter. But the price to pay is you will not be able to max out the P2 although almost all of you will never see the restrictions.
At these overclocking speeds, working on the fringes means the silicon can be extremely susceptible to any noise on the power/ground lines.
It is also possible that the xtal has a bearing on the max freq so it will be interesting to see if using a 20MHz xtal helps. There is a formula Chip uses to calculate the best multipliers and dividers. perhaps the multiplier is pushing the limits and needs to be reduced.
One thing that can have an impact (Not the case here) is temperature rise. If the Prop2 is working hard then it heats up, and this, in turn, reduces the max sysclock freq achievable. The lighter duty the heat-sinking is, the easy it is to raise the chip temperature. So the bigger boards with more copper layers will naturally operate correctly, in open air at least, at requested higher clock rates.
From my tests, I found the top overclocking speed is a hard fail. That is, almost every instruction fails! Serial doesn't work etc. FWIW I was testing my SD driver and as soon as I got to the frequency, everything failed. This is expected though. OnSemi designed the chip t meet a timing spec so Chip said he expected all circuits to fail at pretty much the same time.
I tried to find where I detailed the speed at which it failed but cannot put my hands on it. I think it was 186MHz which is why I said 180MHz was fine to leave a little wiggle room.
Comments
Hi
These look really nice- I managed to get mine before the UK left europe.
For those purchasing in the UK - beware extra import charges from Germany!!!
see this-https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/buying-online-from-europe-post-brexit/
If the order is greater than £135 you can run up a lot of extra charges.
@ManAtWork - have you experienced this?
Dave
Ready for any shipments you can send my way for North America distribution.
Zzzooommmm....
The KISS-boards are now availabe in the EU! Orders can be placed by email to info@nascma.com . Two boards are available: KISS0000, the original KISS and KISS0001, the sd-card version. They are prized € 20 and € 25 respectively included VAT (19%). Shipment fees will be added accordingly, we have to evaluate the cheapest channel. We will supply a paypal link after acceptance of the order.
To answer an obvious question: how is this possible? Thanks to the joint efforts of Parallax, ManAtWork, the community and NaScMa.
The goal is to lower the threshold to enter the World Of P2 and to make use of the FORTH. So join the party ..... it's up to you!
I will be receiving an order of 30 KIS0001 boards to the US in the next week for distribution to North America. Price will be $29.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope.
I still have 16 KISS0000 without SD for $23.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope. Shipping $14.50 to Canada.
You can use my PayPal account in my sig.
This is great news! I had placed an order immediately. When do you think, that shipment can start?
Thanks a lot! Christof
@Publison
Count me in for 1 see email.
Jim
Christof: while I‘m out for two weeks the shipment will start as the boards arrive from ManAtWork
32 New boards (KIS0001) arrived in the US for North America sales.
Seven KISS0001 boards sold today in NA. 25 left.
23 KISS0001 left for NA.
I still have 16 KISS0000 without SD for $23.50+$5.15 First Class mail in a padded envelope. Canada shipping $14.50US
I am interested in this can you tell me where to get some info on this board. Does it boot up the same as edge?
I am in Canada Cambridge Ont. Will pay for extra shipping. How do you want to recive payment? I assume US dollars.
Thanks and Regards
Bob (WRD)
Are you looking for the original or the new board that has the SD card?
First post in this tread has some updated info as of yesterday. PM me for payment instructions.
Payment is in my signature.
https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/172225/kiss-eval-board-general-discussion/p1
.
I (finally) placed an order for one Kiss0001 board, I'm in Germany. Let's see
Update shipping for Canada orders. First class shipping to Canada is now $14.25US. !@# . Crazy price for shipping a 2oz package.
Lots of both versions in stock, mail orders to info@nascma.com
I'm having a bit of trouble with my KISS0000 - it does NOT like to run at over 300MHz internal P2 clock. Is this a limitation of the KISS, or is something wrong over here? Everything seems to work fine up to 300MHz - at anything higher, it just crashes and does nothing.
In other news, I built a little 'adapter board' so you can use Parallax P2 modules that use two adjacent connectors. It's real simple, and it will only fit in two places - it's left-handed. You need right-handed ones if you want to use all eight connectors. Here's a couple little pictures - the boards by themselves, and with a HyperRam card plugged in.
Let me know if anyone's interested, and I'll post the Eagle files and/or Gerbers for the lil' thingy. 'ta! S.
I thought that the official max. clock frequency was 180MHz. Everything above is overclocking at your own risk. It might work but there is no guarantee. Interestingly the current data sheet does not specify any maximum rating for the clock. It could be that other boards work above 300MHz and the KISS board doesn't because of limitations in the voltage regulator, heat sinking or too few bypass capacitors. Or it's just good or bad luck.
The adapter board is a good idea. Do you know a PCB house that offers design sharing ("open source")? It would be nice if others could order the board without the need for you or anybody else taking care of orders, stock, payment etc. (if you are willing to share it, of course). I think DirtyPCB offered that service, JLC doesn't.
Could be the 25 Mhz vs 20 MHz XINFREQ thing. Maybe the hardware doesn't like it as much, maybe the clkmode selection isn't really tuned right for 25 MHz. You are specifying
_XINFREQ = 25_000_000, right?Per the Data Sheet 320Mhz is attainable but does not say if heat sink and perfect voltage components need to be in place as @ManAtWork said.
● Frequency 180 MHz typical, 320 MHz extended
I was using " _xtlfreq " (If you don't, all your baud rates are wildly off!
) I believe they're equivalent, no?
I may have been spoiled by my P2 Edge, which seems perfectly cheerful at 350. It's possible I could put better power on my KISS boards as well. Will try that sometime. Thanks, all.
Give me a bit, and I'll post all the relevant files. It's a really trivial little board. It might have my name on it...
S.
Lord of the Files...
Here's the Eagle (7.6) files, the board and the schematic (yes, they're trivial, but it's still important) as .brd and .sch
Here also is a Gerber package, made up for JLC (although other houses might be happy with them as well) as .zip
It's trivial enough that copyright is probably irrelevant, but consider this me putting it into the Public Domain. If you want to scrape my name off and put yours on, knock yourself out.
Design remarks: It's a two-layer board. All traces are on the front. The back is a ground plane. There are no components except for connectors. If you're expecting equal-length and other ultra-high-speed board design tricks you're out of luck. It works fine up to 300MHz, and that's as far as I could test it. It's "left-handed" - there's only two places you can use it on a KISS board without it interfering with another 12-pin connector. If enough people scream for a right-handed one, I might be bribable. Let me know if you have any other questions...
S.
PS - I used these https://www.allelectronics.com/item/dsp-14/14-pin-2x7-dual-row-header-socket-0.1-spacing/1.html for female connectors, and yes, I yanked out two pins on each one. Whacking the plastic was not required.
The difference between them is _xtlfreq selects an internal capacitor for crystal stability while _xinfreq doesn't. Otherwise they are the same, and typically combined with the PLL by also specifying _clkfreq.
They all act as compile-time switches for instructing which code to include for sysclock setup.
PS: If only _clkfreq is specified then _xltfreq = 20 MHz is assumed for the Parallax Eval Boards. Amusingly this doesn't suit the upcoming revC Edge Board using the external oscillator. A lot of example source code is going to want a
_xinfreq = 20_000_000line added to the start.PPS: I feel having it explicit in examples is a good thing. Then it is clearer to all on how to set up for any given board.
Maybe its the same problem I have with the KISS. I tried to use it with a 2MB sram. At higher speeds I got errors when doing write/reads to the sram. Thought it might be down to the P28-31 port problem but got no such corruption when using a different brand of P2 board at any speed. Ripped out the 25Mhz xtal as suggested elsewhere but that made no difference…
I had some success with the Parallax "Hyper-Ram" board using my litl' adapter. See another thread on the subject at:
https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/171176/hyperram-driver-for-p2/p30
which shows excellent results up to 300MHz. The tests (the whole board!) promptly conked out at anything over 300MHz. My spec sheets for the P2 chip itself don't include an 'Absolute Maximum Ratings' block, so I dunno what the top speed for the chip really is. Seems most assumed it was 350MHz, and that does work okay in the Edge module I have.
I'm afraid that sooner or later, Mr. Benezan will have to bite the bullet and buy some 20MHz crystals. Yeah, it'll break code compatibility - but it's what Parallax does, and they built the darn chip, so presumably they know what they are doing. S.
If you skip the external memory, does it work beyond 300?
All P2 boards do have different top speeds. P2D2 and RetroBlade2 seem to go the highest at around 380MHz (either 385 or 375MHz - cannot recall). Chip said the P2EVAL P2EDGE was lower at 350-360?? He did a comparison between the P2EVAL and RetroBlade2. Note I don't use a switcher so the power/ground lines are indeed quieter. But the price to pay is you will not be able to max out the P2 although almost all of you will never see the restrictions.
At these overclocking speeds, working on the fringes means the silicon can be extremely susceptible to any noise on the power/ground lines.
It is also possible that the xtal has a bearing on the max freq so it will be interesting to see if using a 20MHz xtal helps. There is a formula Chip uses to calculate the best multipliers and dividers. perhaps the multiplier is pushing the limits and needs to be reduced.
No, it does not. I first made sure the KISS was working by itself - and it wasn't, above 300. At 300 or less it was perfectly happy. S.
One thing that can have an impact (Not the case here) is temperature rise. If the Prop2 is working hard then it heats up, and this, in turn, reduces the max sysclock freq achievable. The lighter duty the heat-sinking is, the easy it is to raise the chip temperature. So the bigger boards with more copper layers will naturally operate correctly, in open air at least, at requested higher clock rates.
From my tests, I found the top overclocking speed is a hard fail. That is, almost every instruction fails! Serial doesn't work etc. FWIW I was testing my SD driver and as soon as I got to the frequency, everything failed. This is expected though. OnSemi designed the chip t meet a timing spec so Chip said he expected all circuits to fail at pretty much the same time.
I tried to find where I detailed the speed at which it failed but cannot put my hands on it. I think it was 186MHz which is why I said 180MHz was fine to leave a little wiggle room.