But IMHO it is time to temporarily shelve the P2 (or P3 or whatever) - it's just a name anyway. As both you and Ken know, I have been advocating this for a number of years now, and I am not alone either. Take a week or two to get a simple P1+ out. This no longer needs to even have the 5 items that were requested of the P1+/P1V. That would satisfy quite a few, if not a lot. And it would give Parallax breathing space and a new revenue stream.
Chip and Ken, please continue toward the P2 as planned. Cluso's suggestion of taking "a week or two to get a simple P1+ out" is unrealistic. Doing a P1+ would take months, or even years to produce and fully support. It doesn't make sense to put the P2 project on hold at this point since it is so close to going to silicon. IMHO the P2 design needs to be finalized ASAP. Otherwise, more of us will drift away from Parallax and go on to other things. I do think that most of the people that have already abandoned Parallax will come back once the P2 is out. However, sooner is better. Please finish the P2.
The trouble with P2 testing is that it requires the latest hardware to run the latest iteration without the latest documentation. A few times I have gone through many days of preparing documentation, and purchasing the latest FPGA boards, loading the latest configuration, testing my latest software, I've even had P2 serving up webpages, but the latest is never the last.
@Roy - you aren't listening, but for some reason you seem to be taking it personally. Why? Chip and Ken don't, and I am not being "negative" nor attacking nor sulking nor skulking away. If this forum really is a forum then I should be able to speak my concerns and if I'm honest then I will open up and say what I am thinking and feeling. I don't tell my wife she is being negative if she does that, it's called communicating. Being frustrated with delays I can deal with, we are all big boys here, but commercial projects are not amenable to waiting indefinitely, they just need to be done when they need to be done. Now Chip and Ken get a little feedback that can only be good, because no feedback is far worse which is what happens when very active forum members are just not heard from anymore. The P2 forum might be more "peaceful" without this feedback but it just ends up becoming quieter and quieter as the long night drags on, and when the day dawns will there be anyone left to cheer?
The trouble with P2 testing is that it requires the latest hardware to run the latest iteration without the latest documentation. A few times I have gone through many days of preparing documentation, and purchasing the latest FPGA boards, loading the latest configuration, testing my latest software, I've even had P2 serving up webpages, but the latest is never the last.
Yup. That's one of the main reasons I haven't done anything on P2 for quite some time. I need the instruction set and particularly the instruction encodings to remain stable. I also need the assembler syntax to be stable. I don't want to spend time modifying GAS for P2 only to find that a new assembler syntax gets invented and people start complaining that GAS doesn't match PASM.
Seems a good bit of steam has been let off here. A mixed bag of opinions and approaches sure, but all drawn from a common care.
C&K have sure taken note.
Anyone mind if we close this topic - free up all minds for being productive today?
Has it come to that now? Calling it "steam" which it is not, and then sealing it off? There are concerns here that could be answered somewhat better, but if Chip and Ken want to stop any further discussion, well, that's up to them, it's their forum, we're only contributors, helpers, and customers. What we do is also up to us.
Has it come to that now? Calling it "steam" which it is not, and then sealing it off? There are concerns here that could be answered somewhat better, but if Chip and Ken want to stop any further discussion, well, that's up to them, it's their forum, we're only contributors, helpers, and customers. What we do is also up to us.
Peter-
No, no. Please don't take it that way. And please accept my apologies if you felt negatively about my use of the word "steam".
If you have concerns larger than you could express in this thread so far, then I'm sure Ken or Chip would be open to chatting with you offline. And if there are any specific new topics not yet covered here that you'd prefer to raise in the forum, then of course you should start a new thread, with an appropriate title.
My role here is simply for forum moderation.
Honestly, the way I saw this thread was that you started out by making a point. A bit of a provocative title you might care to consider, but regardless you grabbed attention, made your feelings known, and others chipped in too. All good forum exchange, and the point was clearly acknowledged as important by Ken and Chip, as they both replied to this thread.
But that's done. And as I can now see distraction and possible personal disharmony creeping into the mix, it seems logical to move on. Nip this in the bud before your thread spoils, one might say. And release everyone (including yourself) to focus on something else.
Before we close off this thread, I'd just like to say "the perfect is often the enemy of the good". I think the P2 is "good" now; let's ship it rather than trying to make it "perfect".
Comments
@Roy - you aren't listening, but for some reason you seem to be taking it personally. Why? Chip and Ken don't, and I am not being "negative" nor attacking nor sulking nor skulking away. If this forum really is a forum then I should be able to speak my concerns and if I'm honest then I will open up and say what I am thinking and feeling. I don't tell my wife she is being negative if she does that, it's called communicating. Being frustrated with delays I can deal with, we are all big boys here, but commercial projects are not amenable to waiting indefinitely, they just need to be done when they need to be done. Now Chip and Ken get a little feedback that can only be good, because no feedback is far worse which is what happens when very active forum members are just not heard from anymore. The P2 forum might be more "peaceful" without this feedback but it just ends up becoming quieter and quieter as the long night drags on, and when the day dawns will there be anyone left to cheer?
Seems a good bit of steam has been let off here. A mixed bag of opinions and approaches sure, but all drawn from a common care.
C&K have sure taken note.
Anyone mind if we close this topic - free up all minds for being productive today?
Has it come to that now? Calling it "steam" which it is not, and then sealing it off? There are concerns here that could be answered somewhat better, but if Chip and Ken want to stop any further discussion, well, that's up to them, it's their forum, we're only contributors, helpers, and customers. What we do is also up to us.
Peter-
No, no. Please don't take it that way. And please accept my apologies if you felt negatively about my use of the word "steam".
If you have concerns larger than you could express in this thread so far, then I'm sure Ken or Chip would be open to chatting with you offline. And if there are any specific new topics not yet covered here that you'd prefer to raise in the forum, then of course you should start a new thread, with an appropriate title.
My role here is simply for forum moderation.
Honestly, the way I saw this thread was that you started out by making a point. A bit of a provocative title you might care to consider, but regardless you grabbed attention, made your feelings known, and others chipped in too. All good forum exchange, and the point was clearly acknowledged as important by Ken and Chip, as they both replied to this thread.
But that's done. And as I can now see distraction and possible personal disharmony creeping into the mix, it seems logical to move on. Nip this in the bud before your thread spoils, one might say. And release everyone (including yourself) to focus on something else.
Eric
I agree. Time to stop revising, make any required fixes, and start shipping.