Pilot's have enough on their plate watching out for other pilot's. They would be stressed to the limit watching out for something that can hardly be seen. I live in a rural area, and usually have little notice of a crop duster flying over at tree top level.
I can see the next step the government will use is requiring that you take a class and pass a test before getting your quadcopter registered. In fact a city near where I live has a company that has the first US training facility for the proper use of quadcopters. The irony of it all is this training facility is in a hanger at the local airport. Hopefully they don't do training outside the hanger .
I see nothing wrong with having ground school and a certification before actually flying unmanned aerial vehicles in populate areas or in and around airports and other controlled airspace.
Nothing wrong with having school in an airplane hangar. One might actually first learn to fly indoors without the problems of wind gusts and with some good mentoring. And getting an introduction to what an airport does may make people more aware of how to safely share airspace. Airports provide weather monitoring 24/7, an office to file a flight plan, and a variety of other resources. And seeing how busy one is can begin to see why they restrict flight for miles around them. It is important that space is available for an emergency landing.
Like everyone, I am enjoying the photography these unmanned aerial vehicles can provide and they have huge advantages in being deployed in disaster situation where getting an airplane in the air might take more time or have an airport too far away.
I grew up in San Francisco and there were a lot of things that one couldn't do in a city. Later I relocated to Oregon, where one could do all sorts of things without regulation, or at least with much less regulation. And I admit that I did enjoy the advantages and opportunities that Oregon allowed. I learned to use chainsaws, operate a backhoe, and drive an 18-wheeler without a lot of government regulation or interferance. Oregon was a much easier place to get started as a general contractor as well.
But the truth is that a 'sink or swim' kind of education program in the back woods has no place in the urban environment. Driving a log truck on a back road may get yourself killed, but driving an 18-wheeler in and around a major city requires a lot more awareness of those around you.
I just don't see why some oversight is not acceptible. And yes, I also have seen big government make it just about impossible for the small businessman to get anywhere. But this is simply about public safety versus recreation.
Loopy I totally agree with you. Training is a good thing. The training company has the foresight to see what may be coming. I was not complaining I just was saying the next step in government regulation could be required training.
I still maintain that a flying device controlled via radio by an operator is an RC plane, alternatively an RC helicopter/quadcopter, whatever. There are no requirements to register RC planes (not in the US, not in western Europe). Just calling them "drones" shouldn't require new laws. I could tentatively agree on different regulations for an RC plane flying out of visible range, steered via remote camera. A real drone should be robotic though.. or AI and beyond, like the drones in the Culture novels (by Iain M. Banks)
So you're saying that I do not need to register my Millennium Falcon rig because she's not the thing the Feds are worried, about, and she's really a RC rig with updates? Interesting thought. (No I don't own one, I was thinking of buying one though.)
I see nothing wrong with having ground school and a certification before actually flying unmanned aerial vehicles in populate areas or in and around airports and other controlled airspace.
I was interpreting the law to say "No R/C to be operated within 5 miles of an Airport". Maybe the can amend that to say they can be operated within an enclosed structure near an airport.
That's not to say, some enthusiastic student will say, "how high can this fly outside?" when the teacher is not looking.
1. Regulate "drones". For "public safety" reasons.
2. License big corps. to fly drones. Amazon etc
3. Profit. For the big corps. And government by way of taxes and fees.
Loopy I totally agree with you. Training is a good thing. The training company has the foresight to see what may be coming. I was not complaining I just was saying the next step in government regulation could be required training.
I do have mixed feelings about 'training companies'. These privatized enterprises have a way of creating more and more work for themselves and more and more cost to those that just want to comply. They do lobby congress to create an industry niche for themselves. Just look at what has become hazardous waste handling for instance.
I kept a tax accounting certification with the U.S. Treasury Department for about 10 years and had to take course by mail each year and pay renewal fees to the U.S. government each year. The whole thing got more expensive than it was worth. When I desired to withdraw, the Tresury Department wasn't happy. They were pushing for me to pay an annual fee to retain a 'retired status'. I felt like I had joined the Mafia and was told I couldn't quit.
Just getting to drive an 18-wheeler in California these days requires spending thousands of dollars going to truck driving school. And once you have your license, you still have regular physicals, drug testing, log books, and renewal exams. It seems a bit too much... but when you are rolling 80,000,000 pound down a crowded interstate in heavy traffic in fog, snow or ice; I do appreciate what the government is doing.
At the other extreme, I have a Taiwan driver's license for auto and motorcycle now and the government here decided that no renewal was necessary... my driver's license is good for my lifetime. I recall having the darnedest time getting my 83 year old mother to accept that she should not be driving and being relieve when she couldn't pass the exam.
Go carts were great fun when they first came out. But if you were on a busy roadway, nobody could see you. They are just too low to the ground. One would think that common sense would prevail and that the government wouldn't have to step it. But it doesn't always work that way.
I see nothing wrong with having ground school and a certification before actually flying unmanned aerial vehicles in populate areas or in and around airports and other controlled airspace.
I was interpreting the law to say "No R/C to be operated within 5 miles of an Airport". Maybe the can amend that to say they can be operated within an enclosed structure near an airport.
That's not to say, some enthusiastic student will say, "how high can this fly outside?" when the teacher is not looking.
Obviously, I am not reading the proposed U.S. law with an eye toward compliance. I would actually have to get the Taiwanese regulations (in Chinese of course) and pour over those.
No flight within 5 miles of an airport? Okay, so flying within a hangar at the airport is out. No big deal. I suspect the airport wants less nearby radio traffic as well.
I just wonder if Crissy Airfield in San Francisco is still considered an active airport. Not many places in and around San Francisco that are more than 5 miles from an airport. Just north of San Francisco in Marin County there is an active heliport and seaplane airport.
I found America to be divided between the city dwellers and the country dwellers. In fact, those that live in country would never go near a city like San Francisco, at best they might visit Santa Rosa or Sacramento.
I see nothing wrong with having ground school and a certification before actually flying unmanned aerial vehicles in populate areas or in and around airports and other controlled airspace.
I was interpreting the law to say "No R/C to be operated within 5 miles of an Airport". Maybe the can amend that to say they can be operated within an enclosed structure near an airport.
That's not to say, some enthusiastic student will say, "how high can this fly outside?" when the teacher is not looking.
Obviously, I am not reading the proposed U.S. law with an eye toward compliance. I would actually have to get the Taiwanese regulations (in Chinese of course) and pour over those.
No flight within 5 miles of an airport? Okay, so flying within a hangar at the airport is out. No big deal. I suspect the airport wants less nearby radio traffic as well.
I just wonder if Crissy Airfield in San Francisco is still considered an active airport. Not many places in and around San Francisco that are more than 5 miles from an airport. Just north of San Francisco in Marin County there is an active heliport and seaplane airport.
I found America to be divided between the city dwellers and the country dwellers. In fact, those that live in country would never go near a city like San Francisco, at best they might visit Santa Rosa or Sacramento.
I was just hoping they would allow in hanger training sessions. Probably the best venue close to an airport.
Id like to know if that "radio rifle" can down drones in GPS mode only. RC tx spread spectrum and frequency hopping seems like it could only be jammed, leading to a crash. hope the police dont crash into the situation or people there're trying to protect.
The heft of some of commercial drones I have seen laity, If they fell from the and hit you, you would be bearied a couple of inches into tera ferma. You will need somthing deeper later.
The heft of some of commercial drones I have seen laity, If they fell from the and hit you, you would be bearied a couple of inches into tera ferma. You will need somthing deeper later.
Whoops; forgat a word.
The heft of some of commercial drones I have seen laity, If they fell from the sky and hit you, you would be bearied a couple of inches into tera ferma. You will need somthing deeper later.
Yeah mine is getting heavier by the month.
I'm not a reckless pilot, and have AMA insurance, and my flying club has good relations with our nearby ATC guy. but others are going to screw things up.
At the other extreme, I have a Taiwan driver's license for auto and motorcycle now and the government here decided that no renewal was necessary... my driver's license is good for my lifetime. I recall having the darnedest time getting my 83 year old mother to accept that she should not be driving and being relieve when she couldn't pass the exam.
It's not so extreme, not really.. Norway changed to lifetime driver's license for cars many years ago. Or until your 100th birthday, anyway (well some relatives of mine lived longer than that, so..). Except that after 70 you'll need a doctor's confirmation about still being able to see, and not having some other issue preventing you from driving safely. Once a year or bi-yearly, I'm not sure.
For 7.5-tonners you still need to renew every 10th year, sadly you have to remember that by yourself and I didn't.. so only normal cars for me now.
Yeah mine is getting heavier by the month.
I'm not a reckless pilot, and have AMA insurance, and my flying club has good relations with our nearby ATC guy. but others are going to screw things up.
It probably won't be long before your required to be covered by insurance , It would be a good idea anyway, if you fly near other houses or the general public.
Yeah I have the AMA insurance though it isn't legally required, and you still have to follow their rules too. for now the limit is 55 lbs by the FAA hobby rules if I remember, but they'll no doubt lower that mass.
Yeah mine is getting heavier by the month.
I'm not a reckless pilot, and have AMA insurance, and my flying club has good relations with our nearby ATC guy. but others are going to screw things up.
It probably won't be long before your required to be covered by insurance , It would be a good idea anyway, if you fly near other houses or the general public.
MikeDYUr, AMA is the organization that carries the insurance. Patrick has it.
A lot of this is self-inflicted, by idiots who bought multicopters and acted stupidly. Enquiring minds want to know: How many of you who fly multicopters outdoors have some kind of identification on your aircraft? How many of you belong to the AMA? How many of you know how close you are to the nearest airport when you fly?
So you're saying that I do not need to register my Millennium Falcon rig because she's not the thing the Feds are worried, about, and she's really a RC rig with updates? Interesting thought. (No I don't own one, I was thinking of buying one though.)
Well, I don't know your Falcon.. I'm simply saying that there are already regulations in place, for R/C models. Just because for some reason some of those R/C models are now called "drones" by some people should not, by itself, be enough to create new regulations. If R/C model regulations are not enough to cover issues with R/C models, then *that* should be the incentive to change them - not because somebody started calling them "drones", and then regulators come up with completely new regulations as if this were something new that didn't exist before.
I would be surprised if existing regulations also in the US didn't already cover legal altitude, public places, etc.
In the 'for what it is worth' bin,
Today's 'Taipei Times' mentioned the Taiwan government has a new law requiring national registration of any unmanned aerial vehicle of 15 kilograms or larger, and it is up to localTaiwan governments to regulate anything smaller.
Also, it seems the local Taiwan governments are upset as they feel that they have no resources to do so. In other words, the saga is to be continued.
there are bound to be improvements in safety devices that will mitigate and calm down the government at least a bit. right now there paranoid out of a lack of any control.
Not quite sure that everyone will calm down without some regulation.
The Taipei 101 Building seems to be frequently involved in being hit by unmanned aerial vehicles of late. Also note, that Taiwan has decided that owners of pigeons can be held responsible as well as those that fly unmanned aerial vehicles.
Debris falling from the sky wherever you might be is not an attractive situation. On the other hand, CNN is all abuzz about industrial drone applications taking off in Dubai. They certainly seem to be leading a robotic technological revolution as they can get around far better than rolling over terrain.
I suspect that a lot of outside inspection jobs with be handed over to unmanned aerial vehicles, and it will enhance search and rescue in many situation.
We just have to embrace responsible flying, and being able to enjoy being outside with wearing a hard hat and body armor. And I am a bit wary of what's happening around airports.
My Lord. The reason we are the most incarcerated nation on earth is because there are countless people who have accepted the premise that adding regulations, laws, empowering "law enforcement" and locking up millions actually solves problems. Yes, this is about licensing drone "pilots". Please bear with me.
Somehow it never occurs to them that 1) our country is supposed to encourage freedom to seek happiness in different ways 2) our constitution is supposed to protect that and this makes us creative and unique 3) it is impossible to 100% enforce all the laws on the books, and this leads to selective enforcement whereby enforcers choose whose life they will ruin 4) building a prison complex whose employees and managers have job security reasons to expand it pulls ever more "transgressors" into the mill. A trivial shoplifter now can get a life sentence. This leads to tyranny. If you don't tremble when the red light comes on in your rear view mirror, you just don't know, because you've been lucky. Give it a little time, chances are you'll learn. I almost got shot by them yesterday.
Look at the roads. In reality, the amount of training and certification drivers get is minimal, completely inadequate for the danger of the machines they operate. The fact that accidents are rare, that most people, who can barely read and write or solve problems, somehow do just fine cooperating with others, who are also careening tons of metal at 60-80 miles/hour in tight formation on the freeways, is AMAZING. And it's not because there are cops out there picking off unfortunates for driving 10 miles over the limit. It's because people basically are social animals. Show us and most of us cooperate.
After the dangers of pocket lasers were explained, there have been only the most infrequent incidents of idiots shining them at aircraft. The exceptions? Nothing can prevent that. Today some students were stabbed at a university campus in California. The answer? A War on Silverware? Knife & Fork control?
Technology moves fast. Forget all that medieval authoritarian punitive nonsense. Put a little money into ads EDUCATING people so they understand how a drone could bring down the jetliner their relatives are on. Get people to only buy drones with failsafe that descend homeward if control is lost.
I suppose the alternative approach is for the human race to stop imagining, creating, designing and manufacturing new things, and for everyone to be employed in regulation, monitoring, enforcement and coercion. Well, maybe a handful making guns and chains.
Yep, a constituition is supposed to define rights and basic law of the land... if it is a good one. But there is nothing that can protect us from bad lawmakers without quite a bit of citizen participation. If one dislikes what the government is doing, participate in changing monitoring it and changing it. Create referendums, petitions, and a new agenda... maybe run for office.
There is nothing that is preventing quadcopter flyers from organizing a lobby effort. Similarly manufactures are free to organize a lobby as well.
Unmanned aerial vehicles seem to be the real boom in personal robots. Those rolling ones were just a precursor to these. This is the reall 21st century robot revollution. They are here to stay. They may do a lot of good and may cause a lot of harm.
These days I see DJI in China is now claiming that it wants to be the biggest world producer of quadcopters. Take a look at store.dji.com
So there certainly will be more to come... a lot more. Maybe I should wear a helmet outside. Chicken Little might have been on to something.
Nonetheless, I have a few doubts that the jails are going to be overflowing with quadcopter pilots.
Comments
Nothing wrong with having school in an airplane hangar. One might actually first learn to fly indoors without the problems of wind gusts and with some good mentoring. And getting an introduction to what an airport does may make people more aware of how to safely share airspace. Airports provide weather monitoring 24/7, an office to file a flight plan, and a variety of other resources. And seeing how busy one is can begin to see why they restrict flight for miles around them. It is important that space is available for an emergency landing.
Like everyone, I am enjoying the photography these unmanned aerial vehicles can provide and they have huge advantages in being deployed in disaster situation where getting an airplane in the air might take more time or have an airport too far away.
I grew up in San Francisco and there were a lot of things that one couldn't do in a city. Later I relocated to Oregon, where one could do all sorts of things without regulation, or at least with much less regulation. And I admit that I did enjoy the advantages and opportunities that Oregon allowed. I learned to use chainsaws, operate a backhoe, and drive an 18-wheeler without a lot of government regulation or interferance. Oregon was a much easier place to get started as a general contractor as well.
But the truth is that a 'sink or swim' kind of education program in the back woods has no place in the urban environment. Driving a log truck on a back road may get yourself killed, but driving an 18-wheeler in and around a major city requires a lot more awareness of those around you.
I just don't see why some oversight is not acceptible. And yes, I also have seen big government make it just about impossible for the small businessman to get anywhere. But this is simply about public safety versus recreation.
So you're saying that I do not need to register my Millennium Falcon rig because she's not the thing the Feds are worried, about, and she's really a RC rig with updates? Interesting thought. (No I don't own one, I was thinking of buying one though.)
It creates more bloat and I don't think it works. The idea is good, but in the end it will be run by government workers, which makes it bad.
I was interpreting the law to say "No R/C to be operated within 5 miles of an Airport". Maybe the can amend that to say they can be operated within an enclosed structure near an airport.
That's not to say, some enthusiastic student will say, "how high can this fly outside?" when the teacher is not looking.
2. License big corps. to fly drones. Amazon etc
3. Profit. For the big corps. And government by way of taxes and fees.
Much the same story as the radio spectrum.
I do have mixed feelings about 'training companies'. These privatized enterprises have a way of creating more and more work for themselves and more and more cost to those that just want to comply. They do lobby congress to create an industry niche for themselves. Just look at what has become hazardous waste handling for instance.
I kept a tax accounting certification with the U.S. Treasury Department for about 10 years and had to take course by mail each year and pay renewal fees to the U.S. government each year. The whole thing got more expensive than it was worth. When I desired to withdraw, the Tresury Department wasn't happy. They were pushing for me to pay an annual fee to retain a 'retired status'. I felt like I had joined the Mafia and was told I couldn't quit.
Just getting to drive an 18-wheeler in California these days requires spending thousands of dollars going to truck driving school. And once you have your license, you still have regular physicals, drug testing, log books, and renewal exams. It seems a bit too much... but when you are rolling 80,000,000 pound down a crowded interstate in heavy traffic in fog, snow or ice; I do appreciate what the government is doing.
At the other extreme, I have a Taiwan driver's license for auto and motorcycle now and the government here decided that no renewal was necessary... my driver's license is good for my lifetime. I recall having the darnedest time getting my 83 year old mother to accept that she should not be driving and being relieve when she couldn't pass the exam.
Go carts were great fun when they first came out. But if you were on a busy roadway, nobody could see you. They are just too low to the ground. One would think that common sense would prevail and that the government wouldn't have to step it. But it doesn't always work that way.
Obviously, I am not reading the proposed U.S. law with an eye toward compliance. I would actually have to get the Taiwanese regulations (in Chinese of course) and pour over those.
No flight within 5 miles of an airport? Okay, so flying within a hangar at the airport is out. No big deal. I suspect the airport wants less nearby radio traffic as well.
I just wonder if Crissy Airfield in San Francisco is still considered an active airport. Not many places in and around San Francisco that are more than 5 miles from an airport. Just north of San Francisco in Marin County there is an active heliport and seaplane airport.
I found America to be divided between the city dwellers and the country dwellers. In fact, those that live in country would never go near a city like San Francisco, at best they might visit Santa Rosa or Sacramento.
I was just hoping they would allow in hanger training sessions. Probably the best venue close to an airport.
Whoops; forgat a word.
The heft of some of commercial drones I have seen laity, If they fell from the sky and hit you, you would be bearied a couple of inches into tera ferma. You will need somthing deeper later.
I'm not a reckless pilot, and have AMA insurance, and my flying club has good relations with our nearby ATC guy. but others are going to screw things up.
For 7.5-tonners you still need to renew every 10th year, sadly you have to remember that by yourself and I didn't.. so only normal cars for me now.
It probably won't be long before your required to be covered by insurance , It would be a good idea anyway, if you fly near other houses or the general public.
MikeDYUr, AMA is the organization that carries the insurance. Patrick has it.
https://www.modelaircraft.org/joinnew.aspx?s=google
I would be surprised if existing regulations also in the US didn't already cover legal altitude, public places, etc.
Today's 'Taipei Times' mentioned the Taiwan government has a new law requiring national registration of any unmanned aerial vehicle of 15 kilograms or larger, and it is up to localTaiwan governments to regulate anything smaller.
Also, it seems the local Taiwan governments are upset as they feel that they have no resources to do so. In other words, the saga is to be continued.
and here :
there are bound to be improvements in safety devices that will mitigate and calm down the government at least a bit. right now there paranoid out of a lack of any control.
The Taipei 101 Building seems to be frequently involved in being hit by unmanned aerial vehicles of late. Also note, that Taiwan has decided that owners of pigeons can be held responsible as well as those that fly unmanned aerial vehicles.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2015/10/30/2003631283
Debris falling from the sky wherever you might be is not an attractive situation. On the other hand, CNN is all abuzz about industrial drone applications taking off in Dubai. They certainly seem to be leading a robotic technological revolution as they can get around far better than rolling over terrain.
I suspect that a lot of outside inspection jobs with be handed over to unmanned aerial vehicles, and it will enhance search and rescue in many situation.
We just have to embrace responsible flying, and being able to enjoy being outside with wearing a hard hat and body armor. And I am a bit wary of what's happening around airports.
Somehow it never occurs to them that 1) our country is supposed to encourage freedom to seek happiness in different ways 2) our constitution is supposed to protect that and this makes us creative and unique 3) it is impossible to 100% enforce all the laws on the books, and this leads to selective enforcement whereby enforcers choose whose life they will ruin 4) building a prison complex whose employees and managers have job security reasons to expand it pulls ever more "transgressors" into the mill. A trivial shoplifter now can get a life sentence. This leads to tyranny. If you don't tremble when the red light comes on in your rear view mirror, you just don't know, because you've been lucky. Give it a little time, chances are you'll learn. I almost got shot by them yesterday.
Look at the roads. In reality, the amount of training and certification drivers get is minimal, completely inadequate for the danger of the machines they operate. The fact that accidents are rare, that most people, who can barely read and write or solve problems, somehow do just fine cooperating with others, who are also careening tons of metal at 60-80 miles/hour in tight formation on the freeways, is AMAZING. And it's not because there are cops out there picking off unfortunates for driving 10 miles over the limit. It's because people basically are social animals. Show us and most of us cooperate.
After the dangers of pocket lasers were explained, there have been only the most infrequent incidents of idiots shining them at aircraft. The exceptions? Nothing can prevent that. Today some students were stabbed at a university campus in California. The answer? A War on Silverware? Knife & Fork control?
Technology moves fast. Forget all that medieval authoritarian punitive nonsense. Put a little money into ads EDUCATING people so they understand how a drone could bring down the jetliner their relatives are on. Get people to only buy drones with failsafe that descend homeward if control is lost.
I suppose the alternative approach is for the human race to stop imagining, creating, designing and manufacturing new things, and for everyone to be employed in regulation, monitoring, enforcement and coercion. Well, maybe a handful making guns and chains.
There is nothing that is preventing quadcopter flyers from organizing a lobby effort. Similarly manufactures are free to organize a lobby as well.
Unmanned aerial vehicles seem to be the real boom in personal robots. Those rolling ones were just a precursor to these. This is the reall 21st century robot revollution. They are here to stay. They may do a lot of good and may cause a lot of harm.
These days I see DJI in China is now claiming that it wants to be the biggest world producer of quadcopters. Take a look at store.dji.com
So there certainly will be more to come... a lot more. Maybe I should wear a helmet outside. Chicken Little might have been on to something.
Nonetheless, I have a few doubts that the jails are going to be overflowing with quadcopter pilots.
Daphne du Maurier would be proud!