Now, the question is... can they restore the backups without losing all posts that occurred since the backup?
And there's probably a lesson here. In a way, that thread was like "putting all our eggs in one basket". We really should be more diligent about starting new threads instead of just adding to the same thread...
Not to be overlooked is the possibility that the site was hacked.
-Phil
What motivation do you think they might have had to do that? It occurred to me, too, but I don't think the greater world considers what's going on here to be all that interesting.
As for eggs in one basket, yes. There is a common vision and interest here. And that thread, along with a couple others is where we have the most common information about it.
Really, the only alternative I can see is to commit to using another tool in addition to the conversation. GitHub seems like the most obvious tool.
One can put anything in GitHub, not just code. Consider a simple P2 working specification.
That could be text files, and there could be discussion related to them, there, or here, doesn't matter much.
As changes / commits happen, we update that living spec. And we've got a history of that spec too. We have one in the thread, but it takes reading all of it, or our individual recall of events over years to understand. We actually do understand that fairly well, but it could be better.
Yes, this does formalize a few things, but it doesn't have to be much. Nor does it need to be painful.
The beauty of doing that is we could have dropped relevant code snippets, timing discussions, plans, and eventually documentation fragments in with the specification pieces as they get actualized.
Would largely self-document that way.
So there are a couple of thoughts I had. Just tossing it out there to see what, if anything, we all might think of them.
Yeah, I'm thinking a simple heiarachy, each with a text file, or small group of files that contain the working spec. Associated with those is the discussion, and data we may create, or gather. A good example of that is the streamer / HUBEXEC interaction. We've got some good data in that thread about that. Normally, when it's time to jam on the FPGA, I know what I do, and that's read the darn thread, pull out the goodies, look at the docs from Chip, gather code fragments, then attempt something.
If it does anything, then I document that.
Could be a lot easier on us at that stage, but we would have to do a bit more at this stage to get the payoff.
Where there are competing ideas, they both exist in there, and eventually one ends up on the main branch, while the others get left behind, but we still got 'em. Given how this thing has twisted and turned, who knows when one of those might end up back on the main path?
But as for motivation pretty much none is required. People are trying things all the time. When I found I could inject huge red banners all across the new forum pages exploiting as simple bug in the forum software, well, it just had to be done
That was intended as a harmless demonstration of a problem. But there is a certain power rush in finding you can do that. The "kiddies", as people like to say, may not be able to resist the temptation if they find they have the power to do actual damage.
Anyway, I doubt a hack. It must be more than coincidence that it is two of the longest threads here that have gone missing.
When I found I could inject huge red banners all across the new forum pages exploiting as simple bug in the forum software, well, it just had to be done
Yes, you could have been banned... or given a medal. I voted for the medal.
I don't think they got deleted because they were long, but rather because maybe they were the top two most recent when it happened.
The "Propeller II Update - BLOG" thread, which is 223 pages long for me, is still intact. It is almost twice as long as the "The New 16-Cog, 512KB, 64 analog I/O Propeller Chip" thread, which should be around 130 pages long by now.
Maybe they were caught in the time travel bug? Maybe the two threads that were deleted got deleted because they were in the future.
What motivation do you think they might have had to do that? It occurred to me, too, but I don't think the greater world considers what's going on here to be all that interesting.
I doubt that malicious mischief requires any kind of motive that we might comprehend. And although a hack is unlikely, I think the possibility bears consideration. A simple peek into the log files might be able to confirm or discount it.
If the motive were to demonstrate a security vulnerability, deleting the two most recently popular threads would garner abundant attention without having to trash the whole forum.
Yes, you could have been banned... or given a medal. I voted for the medal.
I can imagine there was vote on it.
I was really worried that might be the outcome. I'm grateful it was taken as what it was intended to be, a demo of a forum bug. Can I take the medal now?
By the way, I was later informed of a much more serious bug in that old HTML edit box which allowed actual Javascript code injection. Perhaps luckily the change to BB codes had already come.
Guiness is nice and all but I've had my fill of it on many trips to Dublin in recent years. Can I trade it for some some modern day Yankee micro-brew? I have heard that you have finally given up on the Bud yellow fizz
We're looking into what's going on here and should report back at some point.
In the meantime, I have a suggestion that we all consider: avoiding these really long, diverse-topic threads and considering the creation of new threads when topics change. Sure, I understand that one thing leads to another and so on. But if you read the 216-page missing monster you'll notice that it contains over 500 topics.
In the meantime, I have a suggestion that we all consider: avoiding these really long, diverse-topic threads and considering the creation of new threads when topics change. Sure, I understand that one thing leads to another and so on. But if you read the 216-page missing monster you'll notice that it contains over 500 topics.
Ken, have you learned nothing? We'll all just end up starting 500 new topics in this thread! :P
But it's not clear to me that splintering such a thread in to a hundred branches is any better. At least the long and winding story made sense to anyone who was participating or following at the time.
At the end of the day we end up with a thousand post, thread most or which is irrelevant, or ten one hundred post threads, most of which are irrelevant.
Which is best for the students of history?
And who would know when a thread split would be a good idea at the time?
Clearly the historians would be well-served by the long, continuous story being totally together in chronological order.
But I can't help think that the length of these monstrous threads is part of the reason we have forum collapse now and then. Did any other threads disappear too? Were they equally large?
Did any other threads disappear too? Were they equally large?
It may just be that the large threads are more noticed when they go *poof*.
Also affected was "Tachyon OS furiously fast Forth..."
- but apparently an older 220+ Thread (less active) is not affected.
Bump's recent post suggests it is along the lines of 'unexpected cross talk' between user delete and thread delete.
I did notice Quote had become sluggish and multiple, looks like other things also became 'sluggish and multiple' ?
I doubt we are anywhere near a word/long whatever rolling over somewhere in the code and causing a 'poof' for a couple hundred pages or several thousand responses...
There were at least 2 threads missing, and on my end this afternoon the webserver was chugging along for minutes before timing out.
Clearly there was something going on to cause the latter.
Hopefully all changes are being tested on Staging prior to Prod. Maint.
And, after successful Prod changes, the Staging image should be wiped/backed-up, and Prod copied to Staging for the next round.
Might be a good idea to schedule/publish a weekly Maint. window during off-peak hours to minimize impact?
Comments
And there's probably a lesson here. In a way, that thread was like "putting all our eggs in one basket". We really should be more diligent about starting new threads instead of just adding to the same thread...
-Phil
What motivation do you think they might have had to do that? It occurred to me, too, but I don't think the greater world considers what's going on here to be all that interesting.
As for eggs in one basket, yes. There is a common vision and interest here. And that thread, along with a couple others is where we have the most common information about it.
Really, the only alternative I can see is to commit to using another tool in addition to the conversation. GitHub seems like the most obvious tool.
One can put anything in GitHub, not just code. Consider a simple P2 working specification.
That could be text files, and there could be discussion related to them, there, or here, doesn't matter much.
As changes / commits happen, we update that living spec. And we've got a history of that spec too. We have one in the thread, but it takes reading all of it, or our individual recall of events over years to understand. We actually do understand that fairly well, but it could be better.
Yes, this does formalize a few things, but it doesn't have to be much. Nor does it need to be painful.
The beauty of doing that is we could have dropped relevant code snippets, timing discussions, plans, and eventually documentation fragments in with the specification pieces as they get actualized.
Would largely self-document that way.
So there are a couple of thoughts I had. Just tossing it out there to see what, if anything, we all might think of them.
If it does anything, then I document that.
Could be a lot easier on us at that stage, but we would have to do a bit more at this stage to get the payoff.
Where there are competing ideas, they both exist in there, and eventually one ends up on the main branch, while the others get left behind, but we still got 'em. Given how this thing has twisted and turned, who knows when one of those might end up back on the main path?
I'm game.
But as for motivation pretty much none is required. People are trying things all the time. When I found I could inject huge red banners all across the new forum pages exploiting as simple bug in the forum software, well, it just had to be done
That was intended as a harmless demonstration of a problem. But there is a certain power rush in finding you can do that. The "kiddies", as people like to say, may not be able to resist the temptation if they find they have the power to do actual damage.
Anyway, I doubt a hack. It must be more than coincidence that it is two of the longest threads here that have gone missing.
Yes, you could have been banned... or given a medal. I voted for the medal.
(Really, there was no vote).
The "Propeller II Update - BLOG" thread, which is 223 pages long for me, is still intact. It is almost twice as long as the "The New 16-Cog, 512KB, 64 analog I/O Propeller Chip" thread, which should be around 130 pages long by now.
Maybe they were caught in the time travel bug? Maybe the two threads that were deleted got deleted because they were in the future.
-Phil
I'm sure Jim from IT will chime in shortly.
-Phil
BTW, the Tachyon thread is back.
I was really worried that might be the outcome. I'm grateful it was taken as what it was intended to be, a demo of a forum bug. Can I take the medal now?
By the way, I was later informed of a much more serious bug in that old HTML edit box which allowed actual Javascript code injection. Perhaps luckily the change to BB codes had already come.
Come across the pond and there will be many Guiness available, on me.
Guiness is nice and all but I've had my fill of it on many trips to Dublin in recent years. Can I trade it for some some modern day Yankee micro-brew? I have heard that you have finally given up on the Bud yellow fizz
In the meantime, I have a suggestion that we all consider: avoiding these really long, diverse-topic threads and considering the creation of new threads when topics change. Sure, I understand that one thing leads to another and so on. But if you read the 216-page missing monster you'll notice that it contains over 500 topics.
Ken Gracey
Not just post count, but number of threads the forum can support too!
But yeah, of course it was a [stupid] joke
Ken, have you learned nothing? We'll all just end up starting 500 new topics in this thread! :P
But it's not clear to me that splintering such a thread in to a hundred branches is any better. At least the long and winding story made sense to anyone who was participating or following at the time.
At the end of the day we end up with a thousand post, thread most or which is irrelevant, or ten one hundred post threads, most of which are irrelevant.
Which is best for the students of history?
And who would know when a thread split would be a good idea at the time?
But I can't help think that the length of these monstrous threads is part of the reason we have forum collapse now and then. Did any other threads disappear too? Were they equally large?
Ken Gracey
It may just be that the large threads are more noticed when they go *poof*.
Also affected was "Tachyon OS furiously fast Forth..."
- but apparently an older 220+ Thread (less active) is not affected.
Bump's recent post suggests it is along the lines of 'unexpected cross talk' between user delete and thread delete.
I did notice Quote had become sluggish and multiple, looks like other things also became 'sluggish and multiple' ?
As discussed here: http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/162049/what-happened-to-the-tachyon-os-furiously-fast-forth-thread-too#latest
I doubt we are anywhere near a word/long whatever rolling over somewhere in the code and causing a 'poof' for a couple hundred pages or several thousand responses...
There were at least 2 threads missing, and on my end this afternoon the webserver was chugging along for minutes before timing out.
Clearly there was something going on to cause the latter.
Hopefully all changes are being tested on Staging prior to Prod. Maint.
And, after successful Prod changes, the Staging image should be wiped/backed-up, and Prod copied to Staging for the next round.
Might be a good idea to schedule/publish a weekly Maint. window during off-peak hours to minimize impact?
Thank you. I know the forum has been hard, as have we, or many of us.
Please enjoy some nice thoughts and we'll deserved thanks.
Onward!