Heater, by the tape and solder method I mean that you tape or use glue to hold the part in place so you can solder one side similar to soldering through-hole. Then you solder the other side.
I don't see skilled assemblers pre-tinning the pad but I do see them put a dab of solder on the tip and use a lot of flux. I find SMT a lot more difficult unless I can hold the part in place. Like through-hole I just need someone to teach me the proper technique and then a lot of practice. SMT parts are have much smaller joints that through hole especially ICs.
Well I'm going to have another attempt but its not yet even 6am and too cold. I will try and take a better close up so you can all see it better and tell me if I'm doing it right. mine was the worst easily but it was also a big improvement.
I don't know. It seems to me that if you are soldering up a board up by hand any kind of sticking parts down with glue is more messy and more trouble than it is worth. Just tack the bugger in place and when it is correctly positioned make it permanent by soldering the other end.
Thing is, when you are dealing with parts the size of a 0803 resistor the surface tension of the molten solder tends to drag the part into place. It finds its home without having to be glued or taped into place.
Forget having to hold the part in place just let it do what it want to do.
I have not moved on to surface mount ICs yet but if you watch videos like those of David Jones EEVBlog you see it's much the same. Tack the thing down by one leg. Flood the place with solder for the other legs. Job done.
Heater, as I said there was a skilled assembler who would pick up those parts and drop them in to place with just her soldering iron. I once used some rubber cement when I needed to solder a small IC but I agree that it's too much trouble for chip resistors and capacitors. She was always soldering prototypes and modifications for engineering. In fact she would sometimes see what was wrong with a malfunctioning board. She showed me how to use flux to fix a bad solder joint but I could never get it come out nice like she did it.
Whiteoxe, I am sure your soldering a lot better than before. Good soldering takes practice but it's also having the proper tools and the right technique.
Just having the proper iron will make a world of difference.
yes, I have got the message that my 60watt conical is junk and id never have known it was a problem if I hadn't been told ! Still I intend to make do for the short term, and hopefully then, when I get a decent one I can really appreciate it !
I once used some rubber cement when I needed to solder a small IC but I agree that it's too much trouble for chip resistors and capacitors
But here is the point. Given a chip with hundreds of pins that you can hardly see. You don't need any glue or anything to hold it in place in any special way.
No, just manage to "tin" one pad on the board and tack the sucker down with one leg. With that one leg in molten solder you have the opportunity to manoeuvre the chip into the perfect position.
After that you can flood the rest of the pins with solder, get them all soldered down to their pads.
If there are any solder "bridges" between legs or solder in the wrong place just suck it away with some flux and the iron or with the help of desoldering braid.
Or at least that's how I have seen it done. I'll report back when I have tried it myself:)
Heater, try the QFP version of the Propeller.
If I remember the chip I soldered was 6 or 8 pin. We were all told to glue it down so I put a dab on it and then placed it on the board. I made sure the pins were all touching the pads and then after cleaning with alcohol I touched the iron to the pad and the solder to the pins and I saw the solder flow towards the iron like it should. Once I had 1 pin done I skipped every other pin so the part wouldn't overheat. Not bad for my 1st time.
That was easy compared to a chip resistor or capacitor because it was a bigger part.
Whiteoxe, use a crappy Chinese made iron rather than that 60W monster. At this point the crappy iron is better than nothing. I see those things at the Dollar stores if you have such a thing down there.
An odd question,
When I tack down a corner of some 44 pin surface mount chip to set it in place for soldering, I was wondering if it made a difference to find a ground pin on the chip,
and use that pin as my tack down pin?.
I mean would it make a difference in chip heat protection? just in case it didn't settle into the exact right place, and I have to reheat the pin to get better alignment.
is it better to use a ground pin for this, or would it make any difference at all?
I don't think it makes any difference. Whenever I have opened up a chip I have not seen any difference between ground wires and all the others inside. As in this picture:
The ground does have a big metal loop running around the chip but I really don't think one should worry about it. Just don't cook the chip for too long:)
Of course power transistors, regulators and such are a bit different, with their big metal tabs and such. They can take quite a lot of thermal abuse.
I was quite happy for decades with a plug-in-the mains soldering stick from Weller or Antex. Then you come along...
I started to get frustrated with my crusty looking old Weller stick. And yearning for a nice new Hakko FX888D. Nah, I kept saying to my self, it's too expensive.
Today I was welding some white LEDs down and I noticed that as I tacked them into position by one end and touched my tweezers on the other end the damn thing lit up!
What! Turns out my Weller stick is delivering 10 volts of AC, that's 14 volts peak to peak, to my circuit when I solder on it! That does it. This Weller is going in the bin. I need a Hakko.
Turns out they are almost impossible to get in Europe. The one supplier I found does not have any until September. I don't want one from AdaFruit or SparkFun as they are not for 220v. And then I find the analog version with a good old fashioned knob is discontinued you can only get the digital one.
Then I find this http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/soldering-stations/660a/ Yes, sex on a stick. An nice looking analog machine, made in England! Yay!
Bah, that is unavailable from Amazon and on a 7 week lead time from Element14.
How can it be so hard to buy a half decent soldering station?
Heater , what can I say ? You I recall are a medal winning solderist, obviously capable of tiny deft precision with even a crusty old iron So why are the units you ponder over buying seeming so price heavy ? I can see how attractive that lron may be. Are you sure you really want to spend so much. Even it was dollars it would be a lot, but pounds? (why is the currency called pounds any way, something to do with a pound of your flesh to repay) , I bet it feels like it when you part with so much, but not if you really get your values worth. What brand was that other unit you looked at, where you could rest the tip and its heat would be measured , that looked pretty good if anything can. that would be one I'd take another look at ? I remember finding it for sdale here for $99 , a lot cheaper than the link you put up !
Ebay has what looks like high end sophisticated soldering stations for a hundred bucks, what's that 50 pounds ? I didn't realise it mattered what the voltage specs of a unit were so long as you could plug it in somehow? might be more critical with a welding station. ., I don't know, they should be sophisticated enough to handle a few volts difference, us here being 240V !
eDIT: You could buy a humanic servo robot from china with that dosh, if u like robots
Yeah it's too much. But I just had a birthday I should have a present. But I'm a skin flint. But it's a good investment that will last for years. But there are so many other interesting things to buy with the money. But it's a beautiful thing, sex on a stick. But so is that Rigol oscilloscope I'm saving for......grrr....this internal turmoil is endless and maddening.
For sure I already have a transformers that could provide the juice to warm it up. Temperature measurement and control can come from a Propeller. But jees that's project not a tool...
About that Batronix AT938D. I watched this tear down video on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRb1_DB234Q He took the thing apart and pointed out it was really unclear how the temp control was done, there were no wires to the iron for a thermistor! He then demonstrated that it's temperature control was Smile. All in all he really put me off the ATTEN idea.
And I'm not sure I'm into this digital display and buttons idea. I what a big knob to turn.
Maplins in UK have a selection of solder stations
The 60W Atten 980D is on offer for £50 (similar to the one above) and they have others.
I cannot recommend any.
The one I've used all my life!!! is a Weller I was given second hand without a transformer. Its 24V so I found a transformer stuck it in a metal box and its still going- on its second element and maybe 9th tip. Temperature control is achieved with a magnetic tip which switches the element somehow. Its marvellous! Not sure if they still make the tips...
Dave
Heater , this is more my speed, I can get this $16 doollar or there abouts from Hobbyking . A soldering station of my own for the prce of a single solder iron from china !
It would have to be better than what i have. also different tips, I always see on the vids posted conical tips but on the video i learnt from they recommended use of chisel tips more often. especialy for through hole soldering. but im getting pretty used to using the conical tip, and i just remembered Duanes tip that a tiny bit of solder on the tip helps the heat transfer to the joint quicker. Ive not been doing that and it has taken awile for the first solder joint to heat !
Heater, what Weller do you have and what do you mean it's "crusty"?
Whiteoxe, that Chinese clone doesn't compare to a quality station but you can't beat the price.
For through-hole, use chisel/screwdriver tips and as you saw in the video use a bigger tip when you need to solder a larger joint. If you are just working on Microcontroller PCBs then a small tip should be adequate.
Conical tips are for SMT or when you have very tight connections.
I remember seeing a video by that same guy many years ago talking about crappy Chinese made meters and how great his Fluke is. Fluke is now made in China while older units were made in the USA.
I've seen a few of that model Hakko at work.
My trusty old Weller is an SPI 27, 25 Watt. I should not say it's so crusty. It looks a bit used after 10 years or so. Could do with a new tip, somehow the only one I have left got bent at 30 degrees and I dare not bend it back in case it breaks. The cable is a bit stiff. And now I worry now about that AC volts zapping my circuits.
But I just opened it up and inside it's well put together and has a solid ground connection. Perhaps I have a grounding issue elsewhere. I'm quite attached to the old girl after all these years together. She gets hot quick enough but does not burn the cooking. Good down to earth, solid, German engineering.
Despite what David L. Jones says I would rather buy something like this Weller soldering stick for 50 Euro than buy some cheap Smile Chinese soldering station with a crappy iron, a temperature control that does not work and an annoying digital display of obscure menus to navigate with tacky buttons. I'm sure you can get them a lot cheaper than our local distributor.
Heater, your iron is 25W just like mine, which is the WP-25. I also have an EC-1002 solder station that I repaired.
That bent tip might be useful in tight places but don't expect it to last long. I've used old tips that I've resurrected but if I were doing something critical I would use a new tip.
I would recommend getting a good quality iron, that will help a lot. You really do get what you pay for in that sense. The Hakko FX-888D is a great station and very affordable under $100. It's a digital temperature controlled station, so you will always know what temperature the iron is at and won't have to unplug it when it gets too hot and then plug it back in. That alone will make soldering much easier. Also the FX-888D has a fast heat up time and great heat recovery, along with preset modes (If you end up doing a lot of the same projects) and a sleep mode (this will also eliminate the plugging and unplugging you have been doing). Also you can get different tips for your iron, so if you're finding the tip is too large, you may want to swap it for a different smaller tip. Tips are also easily available for the FX-888D. I found this one online: http://www.gotopac.com/Hakko_FX_888_Soldering_Station_s/3893.htm
Damn Hakko is so gorgeous and so hard to buy. Given it's quality (I trust David L. Jones and co. when they say so) and it's price, I don't understand why it is not everywhere. Oh no, every local distributor has all kinds of stations that cost far more, are far bigger and/or uglier and I don't believe are that much better, if at all. I don't want a piece of ugly production line machinery in my "lab" or kitchen table. I want something functional, simple, cheap and sex on a stick.
Perhaps Parallax should stock them. Does not help us guys in Europe though.
Tracy, when I was at J&J I saw a Heathkit manual mixed in with all the other equipment manuals. I don't recall seeing it in the production area and I never had access to engineering labs.
I wish more kits were designed with connectors so you could quickly disconnect a part to replace it, unfortunately good crimping tools are expensive and generally each connector has it's own die set.
Comments
I don't see skilled assemblers pre-tinning the pad but I do see them put a dab of solder on the tip and use a lot of flux. I find SMT a lot more difficult unless I can hold the part in place. Like through-hole I just need someone to teach me the proper technique and then a lot of practice. SMT parts are have much smaller joints that through hole especially ICs.
I don't know. It seems to me that if you are soldering up a board up by hand any kind of sticking parts down with glue is more messy and more trouble than it is worth. Just tack the bugger in place and when it is correctly positioned make it permanent by soldering the other end.
Thing is, when you are dealing with parts the size of a 0803 resistor the surface tension of the molten solder tends to drag the part into place. It finds its home without having to be glued or taped into place.
Forget having to hold the part in place just let it do what it want to do.
I have not moved on to surface mount ICs yet but if you watch videos like those of David Jones EEVBlog you see it's much the same. Tack the thing down by one leg. Flood the place with solder for the other legs. Job done.
Whiteoxe, I am sure your soldering a lot better than before. Good soldering takes practice but it's also having the proper tools and the right technique.
Just having the proper iron will make a world of difference.
0
No, just manage to "tin" one pad on the board and tack the sucker down with one leg. With that one leg in molten solder you have the opportunity to manoeuvre the chip into the perfect position.
After that you can flood the rest of the pins with solder, get them all soldered down to their pads.
If there are any solder "bridges" between legs or solder in the wrong place just suck it away with some flux and the iron or with the help of desoldering braid.
Or at least that's how I have seen it done. I'll report back when I have tried it myself:)
If I remember the chip I soldered was 6 or 8 pin. We were all told to glue it down so I put a dab on it and then placed it on the board. I made sure the pins were all touching the pads and then after cleaning with alcohol I touched the iron to the pad and the solder to the pins and I saw the solder flow towards the iron like it should. Once I had 1 pin done I skipped every other pin so the part wouldn't overheat. Not bad for my 1st time.
That was easy compared to a chip resistor or capacitor because it was a bigger part.
Whiteoxe, use a crappy Chinese made iron rather than that 60W monster. At this point the crappy iron is better than nothing. I see those things at the Dollar stores if you have such a thing down there.
When I tack down a corner of some 44 pin surface mount chip to set it in place for soldering, I was wondering if it made a difference to find a ground pin on the chip,
and use that pin as my tack down pin?.
I mean would it make a difference in chip heat protection? just in case it didn't settle into the exact right place, and I have to reheat the pin to get better alignment.
is it better to use a ground pin for this, or would it make any difference at all?
-Tommy
I don't think it makes any difference. Whenever I have opened up a chip I have not seen any difference between ground wires and all the others inside. As in this picture:
The ground does have a big metal loop running around the chip but I really don't think one should worry about it. Just don't cook the chip for too long:)
Of course power transistors, regulators and such are a bit different, with their big metal tabs and such. They can take quite a lot of thermal abuse.
I was quite happy for decades with a plug-in-the mains soldering stick from Weller or Antex. Then you come along...
I started to get frustrated with my crusty looking old Weller stick. And yearning for a nice new Hakko FX888D. Nah, I kept saying to my self, it's too expensive.
Today I was welding some white LEDs down and I noticed that as I tacked them into position by one end and touched my tweezers on the other end the damn thing lit up!
What! Turns out my Weller stick is delivering 10 volts of AC, that's 14 volts peak to peak, to my circuit when I solder on it! That does it. This Weller is going in the bin. I need a Hakko.
Turns out they are almost impossible to get in Europe. The one supplier I found does not have any until September. I don't want one from AdaFruit or SparkFun as they are not for 220v. And then I find the analog version with a good old fashioned knob is discontinued you can only get the digital one.
Then I find this http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/soldering-stations/660a/ Yes, sex on a stick. An nice looking analog machine, made in England! Yay!
Bah, that is unavailable from Amazon and on a 7 week lead time from Element14.
How can it be so hard to buy a half decent soldering station?
Ebay has what looks like high end sophisticated soldering stations for a hundred bucks, what's that 50 pounds ? I didn't realise it mattered what the voltage specs of a unit were so long as you could plug it in somehow? might be more critical with a welding station. ., I don't know, they should be sophisticated enough to handle a few volts difference, us here being 240V !
eDIT: You could buy a humanic servo robot from china with that dosh, if u like robots
what happened to buying the http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/Atten-AT938D.html ?
I think I know.... you are going to compete in the IPC Hand soldering event !!
Yeah it's too much. But I just had a birthday I should have a present. But I'm a skin flint. But it's a good investment that will last for years. But there are so many other interesting things to buy with the money. But it's a beautiful thing, sex on a stick. But so is that Rigol oscilloscope I'm saving for......grrr....this internal turmoil is endless and maddening.
However, I may have found a solution. I could just by the stick that goes with that station http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/soldering-stations/tc50/ I owned Antex sticks before, they were good.
For sure I already have a transformers that could provide the juice to warm it up. Temperature measurement and control can come from a Propeller. But jees that's project not a tool...
About that Batronix AT938D. I watched this tear down video on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRb1_DB234Q He took the thing apart and pointed out it was really unclear how the temp control was done, there were no wires to the iron for a thermistor! He then demonstrated that it's temperature control was Smile. All in all he really put me off the ATTEN idea.
And I'm not sure I'm into this digital display and buttons idea. I what a big knob to turn.
The 60W Atten 980D is on offer for £50 (similar to the one above) and they have others.
I cannot recommend any.
The one I've used all my life!!! is a Weller I was given second hand without a transformer. Its 24V so I found a transformer stuck it in a metal box and its still going- on its second element and maybe 9th tip. Temperature control is achieved with a magnetic tip which switches the element somehow. Its marvellous! Not sure if they still make the tips...
Dave
It would have to be better than what i have. also different tips, I always see on the vids posted conical tips but on the video i learnt from they recommended use of chisel tips more often. especialy for through hole soldering. but im getting pretty used to using the conical tip, and i just remembered Duanes tip that a tiny bit of solder on the tip helps the heat transfer to the joint quicker. Ive not been doing that and it has taken awile for the first solder joint to heat !
Whiteoxe, that Chinese clone doesn't compare to a quality station but you can't beat the price.
For through-hole, use chisel/screwdriver tips and as you saw in the video use a bigger tip when you need to solder a larger joint. If you are just working on Microcontroller PCBs then a small tip should be adequate.
Conical tips are for SMT or when you have very tight connections.
I remember seeing a video by that same guy many years ago talking about crappy Chinese made meters and how great his Fluke is. Fluke is now made in China while older units were made in the USA.
I've seen a few of that model Hakko at work.
But I just opened it up and inside it's well put together and has a solid ground connection. Perhaps I have a grounding issue elsewhere. I'm quite attached to the old girl after all these years together. She gets hot quick enough but does not burn the cooking. Good down to earth, solid, German engineering.
Despite what David L. Jones says I would rather buy something like this Weller soldering stick for 50 Euro than buy some cheap Smile Chinese soldering station with a crappy iron, a temperature control that does not work and an annoying digital display of obscure menus to navigate with tacky buttons. I'm sure you can get them a lot cheaper than our local distributor.
That bent tip might be useful in tight places but don't expect it to last long. I've used old tips that I've resurrected but if I were doing something critical I would use a new tip.
http://www.gotopac.com/Hakko_FX_888_Soldering_Station_s/3893.htm
Perhaps Parallax should stock them. Does not help us guys in Europe though.
Grrr...
http://www.dancap.co.uk/index.html
They don't accept credit or debit cards, which is strange.
There is also Grosvenor:
http://www.grosvenor-group.com/products.php?level=36
I'll stick with my Metcal equipment.
Ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.parallax.com/product/700-10018
No, sadley it does not help you guys across the pond.
Well I never.
It says "Product not available". It's also 200 dollars instead of 100.
I guess it might be nice to have the whole soldering kaboodle with an FX888D thrown in as a bonus but who does? We just want the FX888D!
@Leon,
I don't see any prices or a "buy button" on the grosvenor-group web page. Hopeless.
Just responding to "Parallax should carry these", and they felt is was also a good product.
They use the FX-888D when they do school seminars. They must have two dozen for that purpose.
Yes, yes, got you. Makes me want one even more!
Did a lot of that fixing shortwaves.
What product was that.? That may be an "erco must have"
I wish more kits were designed with connectors so you could quickly disconnect a part to replace it, unfortunately good crimping tools are expensive and generally each connector has it's own die set.