Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Need tips on soldering - Page 3 — Parallax Forums

Need tips on soldering

135

Comments

  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-07-31 14:51
    Ha... thx for pumping up my tires Duane ;) and damn it, I did have a Fuji finepix I sold to offset a twin lens Sony A35 DSLR. I DINT GET ENOUGH FOR IT TO EVEN REALLY BOTHER SELLING IT BUT HEY, THATS THE W3AY THE COOKIER CRUMBLES. CAPSLOCK DARN IT...SORRY.....

    And Genetic, its 30watt but it gets much hotter much quicker than anything ive used (one other;) I feel like I could use a bucket of water and dip the iron into it a an inch every minute I use it ?
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-07-31 15:05
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    I was about 8 when I started to build xtal sets. My mate and I made our own soldering irons - a copper nail into the end of a piece of broom handle (they were all wood back then). Onto that wind a coil of fine varnished wire (extracted from an old radio coil). Connect each end to a big 1.5V telecom battery -.

    Very very industrious of you Inspector ) My 12 month older brother was like that at 11 years old. Dad came home and showed off his first german car , a merc. my older brother didn't go back up to the house with us. A couple of hours later dad went back down to go somewhere or do something and found Haydn had taken the steering off the dash was down and he was working out what each of the wires did. Father was not thrilled. but haydn could put things back just as easily as take them apart.
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-07-31 18:01
    Whiteoxe,
    ELECTRICITY AND WATER DO NOT MIX!!!
    Either your electricity is unstable or that iron is just a piece of junk. You can't solder well with a faulty iron. I've heard people praise Hakko though I don't normally use them.

    Speaking of Hakko I found the part number for that "scouring pad" tip cleaner. --- Hakko 599B
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-07-31 21:05
    Yes, I'm not even sure how serious I was being. ? I seriously doubt I would have done more than use a damp sponge but that would do little to cool it down. the only way is to unplug it every couple of minutes and hope there is not much soldering to do. Im going to report back here in a couple of hours with news, maybe boring to most of what I find at the electronics store around the corner. Ive been out in a park the last couple of hours with only one book reading the first 5 chapters "Programming the Propeller with Spin"-"A beginners Guide to Parallel Processing" by Harprit Sandhu. He stresses to first read the prop manual or both together.

    I enjoyed every chapter and think I'll Spin my way back into the Propeller (sorry for that, very lame :) I also found it enlightening about the use of 7404/7414 Gates to turn 3.3 volts into 5volts with a 5 volt power source. because I was thinking of pnp transistors everywhere. Are those Gates transistors ? Phil told me he thought I should be able to drive some 5v relays on a board with just the 3.3 volts , and I will try, I'd also like to learn to use the gates.

    edit: to get a 5volt power source should I just play with the two dozen AA batteries I have in a 4 battery box to get 5volts or just a little over, like 5.3 volts ?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-31 22:58
    whiteoxe,
    Heater told me he thought I should be able to drive some 5v relays on a board with just the 3.3 volts
    I did? Where? Was I drunk?

    Ah, you mean relays on a relay board the has some driver transistors on it that are normally driven by 5v logic level signals.

    It is quite likely that the 3.3v logic level from the Prop is sufficient to be seen as a logical HIGH to the inputs on such a board and hence it will work fine. There is some chance it is not sufficient and you would be disappointed buy such a board. It depends on the boards input circuitry.

    If happened to have one I would try it. I perhaps would not buy a 5v relay board unless I knew somehow that it would work.

    Do your research. Or tell us here exactly what relay board you have and ask :)
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-07-31 23:33
    Ive done the research and pointed out the exact 4ch 5v relay board...hang about , i'll post it here as well.......... and sorry I got you mixed up with Phil for a sec, I edited it but you both seem to agree which is GREAT, I hope ? back in a jiffy.....

    Well all I bought was a couple of those gates that invert the logic and according to what I read today in the Spin Beginners guide book will alow me to use the 3.3 volts to turn 5volts was a dry non wettable tip cleaner pad. I had a good look at the soldering irons and the cheapest was over $40 and it was conical. they started to get a lot more expensive after that....forget about soldering stations ! Actually I could not find any small chisel head solder iron, they were beefy and really beefy, more like welders than solders by the size of some of them. most of the irons were conical, about two thirds or more.

    The gent that served me told me I could use a light dimmer switch to rig up a heat control on my 60 watt ebay soldering iron. Sorry Genetix I told you it was 30watt. The braid was mighty expensive , little roll of it for $26 , then a different brand of braid about same small amount nearly $50 ? What the @#*

    So I looked at solder suckers, many tens of dollars for one nice looking unit, cheapest was $18. This store is kind of high end stuff. No junk. The service is 5 star though. The fellow even showed me some copper laid boards and tried to explain to me how to make circuit boards out of them. I had to try and spend a little more so I said I could probably use some flux.... he told me it was not needed as the solder has that built in and then asked me the brand of the solder I was using, I didn't know, ive got two brands the one im using has 60/40 written on the side. is all I knew. he told me to find out to google it. well now im back home its Duratech 1mm. its in an orange tube, the other is same brand in a yellow tube but its hiding at the moment.

    Sorry if this bored the hell out of you all. it was going to cost a lot to fix up my soldering on the Quickstart so i'll pass on that as it seems to work just fine.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-01 00:59
    whiteoxe,
    I got you mixed up with Phil for a sec, I edited it but you both seem to agree which is GREAT
    Amazing :)


    I'm not sure why you talk of the chips to translate 3.3v to 5v when we have already decided they are not needed for your relay board.
    ...forget about soldering stations
    You should be able to get this soldering station from ebay for 50 dollars or so: http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/Atten-AT937b.html People will tell you not to buy cheap Chinese solder equipment, bla, bla, but I'm fairly certain that for the kind of things we do they can be just fine. Like this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abHMNj7Yvo. In fact I'm going to order one for myself. They have a ton of different tips available:http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/tips.html
    ...60 watts...
    Whooa, I could silver solder copper steam boiler plates with that! :)


    That store you went to sounds like our local RS distributer. Great store, great service, big selection, top quality stuff, horrible expensive. I only use them in a dire emergency. Solder braid and suckers and stuff can be had from the internet a lot cheaper.
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-08-01 01:04
    Your making good progress Whiteoxe. So do you like that Spin book because I was thinking of getting it?
    60 Watt is way too powerful for working on PCBs. Most solder stations are 40W. If you get a 30 or 35W hand iron you will notice a world of difference and for through-hole a small screwdriver tip is enough. The tip should be bigger than the lead and cover most of the pad for good heating. Conical tips are more for fine soldering such as SMT where the pins and pads are tiny.
    How much solder wick did you buy? The long spools cost a but short lengths don't cost a lot. You don't need wick that much.
    A solder sucker is nice to have but you can always use wick. Just be careful that you don't heat the board too much.
    A Flux Pen is handy. Liquid flux is messy and if you need more flux just press then pen a few times. I would suggest Rosin flux instead of No-Clean.
    By the way, solder wick also comes in Rosin or No Clean. No Clean leaves residue and it's good practice to clean your joints so they are easy to inspect.
    99% alcohol costs almost 3X more than standard 70% but it cleans way better.

    Have fun!
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 01:37
    @Heater, do you see why I am still talking about the gates ?

    @everyone, I feel like ive taken a beating, but the friendly kind like I used to start in primary school ;) but im glad its dinner time so I can make something nice for tea and just kick back for the night, ive been all over Brisbane doing different things, even found the main city library to wander through. not the state library...its nice but you cant take books from there I think ?
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 01:47
    nah, Genetix, its because its good reading....and I think good information but I'm not too sure I want to touch those gates ever just now !!!!!!!
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-01 02:08
    whiteoxe,
    ...do you see why I am still talking about the gates ?
    Yeah, I thought you meant logic gates not welding up wrought iron garden gates :)
    I feel like ive taken a beating
    We all know the feeling well. Learning things can just be rough. It it does not hurt it, you are not trying hard enough!
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-08-01 04:10
    Whiteoxe, inverters are great if you want to control more than one LED from a microcontroller. Just remember that it inverts the signal. Anytime you see a little circle connected to the pin of a chip it means that signal uses negative logic (ON = 0, OFF = 1). You also sometimes see LEDs wired with the Cathode to the pin and the Anode to power. This is because when microprocessors and microcontrollers first came out they couldn't supply much current but they had no problem absorbing current. In that the microcontroller control ground to the LED circuit so the LED only turns on when the pin is 0.
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 15:38
    Im gonna blow some stuff up over this weekend Heater !

    yep Peter... Burn and learn sounds fun, going hungry not so much .. but one of the best sayings i ever heard when younger was, Hey...i got someting to say.., it's better to Burrrn out than fade away ;)
    but when I was talking about RC differentiation and integration he just didn't have a clue, not a sausage, go figure. Oh, the list goes on and on..
    .. yeah, i dont get how he couldnt grasp that elementary idea either , ;)


    Things change, things stay the same.
    ... (the More things change !, you just lost a mark you have to make up for )


    That relay board only needs 15 miliamps to switch, I missed that so i think thats why basically youve all told me to stop worry about voltage,

    I think i learnt a lot about metaphors or analogys in both these threads !

    I love Saturdays, dont know why, just do, some of you might have to wait till tomorrow !!!

    Hears to a great Saturday ahead !!!!!
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 16:12
    @Heater, there are a number of good looking soldering stations under $50 using ebay. I was pretty surprised.
  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2014-08-01 17:02
    Harprits book is awesome for Spin beginners, and was very helpful, But, after you work through that book,
    I think 'The official guide, Programming and Customizing the Multicore Propeller Microcontroller book, offers more beginning, intermediate, and advanced spin stuff.


    whiteoxe, did you ever get any solder wick? PM your mailing address, and I will stuff some in an envelope for you, that way you can see how the stuff works.
    Might take a week or two to get there, but it's better than paying $25 dollaroos...



    -Tommy
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 17:59
    Ttailspin wrote: »
    Harprits book is awesome for Spin beginners, and was very helpful, But, after you work through that book,
    I think 'The official guide, Programming and Customizing the Multicore Propeller Microcontroller book, offers more beginning, intermediate, and advanced spin stuff.


    whiteoxe, did you ever get any solder wick? PM your mailing address, and I will stuff some in an envelope for you, that way you can see how the stuff works.
    Might take a week or two to get there, but it's better than paying $25 dollaroos...



    -Tommy

    Thanks Tommy, really ... but I'll buy it off ebay or Jaycar, it will proably be cheaper for me than for you to post.

    Mike.

    Im cleaning today, got my unit covered in electronics and books, just in case I get any visitors(or id just leave it all alone)
  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2014-08-01 19:01
    No worries, USPS says it would have been about 10 bucks to send a large envelope to the bottom of the world, (sounds cheap, for that long of a journey),
    But, it would be better if you found a more permanent supplier, You may need more solder wick some day... :)
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 19:38
    that postage is not so bad as I thought. it would cost me $7 to send to another city in Australia and maybe twice thast to send to you if im lucky :)
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2014-08-01 19:41
    whiteoxe wrote: »
    that postage is not so bad as I thought. it would cost me $7 to send to another city in Australia and maybe twice thast to send to you if im lucky :)

    Mike, you know I've got all kinds of stuff coming out of my ears and solder wick is no problem at all, I normally buy from a Okay Technologies directly.

    BTW, glad to hear you are cleaning :smile:
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 19:46
    ;) cheers PJ

    If you knocked just now I'd pretend i wasn't home , not finished yet !
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-01 23:02
    Mike, you know I've got all kinds of stuff coming out of my ears and solder wick is no problem at all, I normally buy from a Okay Technologies directly.

    BTW, glad to hear you are cleaning :smile:

    I had a look at the Okay website, I didnt want anything but if i did I missed where it told you the prices. Seemed difficult website, tried to put stuff in my cart(i should not be wasting time like this) but all the button i could see was Wish list, then nothing was in the cart. I'll pass on using that site. I really dont have a need for anything from shops, a tiny bit of wick would be good just to get the hang of using it. I am a long way from needing to make a circuit board.

    You know that red through hole copper board you gave me , that ive used to practise soldering. Well I think the fellow from Prime was telling me you can make circuit boards out of them using telephone wire, he described the wire like I must know what he's talking about and I just nodded like I was following what he was saying. I had not a clue. What is so special about old telephone wire ?? But I bought an FM Transmitter kit a fair while ago. I never attempted to build it because the soldering required was just too small/compact. I think I can manage it now. Just nice feel I can do some things that not many hours ago I would have ruined for lack of know-how and ability , stilll what i want with a minature FM transmitter is not clear. I might save it for when Im with some young nephews later in the year !!!!

    Ive been looking at that stepper motor 28BYJ and the little board that is attached and have looked up the wiring of a near identical board. Just to look ! I think I should get that relay board going before I start something else .

    But Im going to read some more of that Spin book and the prop manual.

    Im going to go to the Brisbane City Library a fair bit from now on. I get too distracted at home ;)
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-08-03 22:57
    Whiteoxe, how's the soldering going?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-04 00:06
    Having been soldering for decades, mostly hobby projects, it's only this week that I tackled surface mount components.

    I never though about it much before, they are obviously too small to see and handle easily and even if that was easy how do you solder them with a big old soldering iron and a shaky hand? Don't you need solder masks and solder paste and a reflow oven etc etc.

    Then I see David Jones' soldering videos. That's easy, let's try it.

    Ok. Here is one of the first resistors I ever soldered into a working circuit. A 10K 0803 size SMD pull up for a Propeller rest pin.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=110070&d=1407073875

    It's there in the top right. Looking a bit stressed because it was actually soldered in, then removed, then soldered back at least once as I rearranged the board layout. I'm amazed it survived at all. That board also has a surface mount 3.3v regulator and associated capacitors.

    Why am I posting this?

    Well I've come to the conclusion that using surface mount parts by hand is actually easier or at least as easy as though hole. Provided they are not too small. The 0803 size is fine.

    You can buy tons of SMD resistors and capacitors very cheaply. They sell them on tape strips by the yard almost.

    If you need a magnifier a jeweler's loupe can be fine.

    That picture was taken with a Raspberry Pi and it's camera module looking through a jewelers loupe. It's resolution is much higher than posted here. With proper light and a proper mount the image quality would be much better. The Raspi Camera makes a great, cheap, macro camera system. You can watch as you solder on a huge TV screen!

    I guess some will be chuckling at me having only now caught up with 1980's technology. Technolgy moves slowly in these parts:)
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-04 02:34
    Great use of the R-Pi and nice looking solder. I can't say too much as ive had a swollen acheing jaw/tooth all day. but from what I can see or deduce from my soldering, Heaters soldering and Duanes soldering, if had been in the commonwealth games, and I'm not qualified to judge But...I would suppose the gold went to Heater nice and neat and just the right amount, Duane gets the silver, it was so close but he just laid on that little bit extra that wasn't making it any better...which leaves me with bronze as my soldering was at the other end being just not quite enough, all the pins are very clearly still visible, I could easily have used just that little bit more solder and then they would have looked like some of the soldering on motor control and micro controller boards. not to mention my getting marked down for each burn ;( , but we would probably all be s@rewed if all nations had had a competitor ;)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-04 02:53
    whiteox,

    Thanks for the compliments on the sodering, as undesrved as they are. That would be rejected most places as the poor old resistor looks decidly burned. Cant' read the numbers on the top any more.

    Duane's soldering is excellent. Don't forget the "bad" looking joints in his picture were examples of how it should NOT look and marked with a big red cross to indicate that.

    I don't know when we will get soldering adopted into the Commonwealth or Olympic games. That would make more interesting TV that some of them! But there are IPC soldering competitions:
    http://www.ipc.org/html/hsc2/index.htm
    http://www.ipc.org/ContentPage.aspx?Pageid=IPC-Hand-Soldering-Competition-Winner-Crowned-at-National-Electronics-Week-2014

    The winner in that "action packed" event in England took home £300. Not bad.

    Sadly I don't think any of us here would qualify.

    As for the Raspberry Pi. Did you know you can unscrew the lens from the front of the tiny Pi camera module and use it as a serious macro picture taking device? That is my next experiment.

    With a decent, steady and adjustable mount some more light and perhaps some lenses I'm sure this will make a nice magnifier for SMD work.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-04 03:13
    Gentlemen, prepare to be amazed, experience the thrills and spills of soldering at it's finest, be awed and inspired my the best solder slingers on the planet. I bring you the "IPC World Soldering Championship 2014" in glorious close up technicolor video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHMdgzzW2fk

    Looks like we will be in the Olympic Games much sooner than I thought, this is a real crowd pulling event.

    Worth watching to catch some details of the techniques and tools in use there.
  • whiteoxewhiteoxe Posts: 794
    edited 2014-08-04 03:26
    I think that is quite interesting about the Pi camera. I aim to get some kind of camera to mount on something in the not too far away ! and I was going partly off Duane's own criticism as you say he acknowledged but it was more than good to my eye. I looked at some of your solder points that were not connecting the resistor, not sure if I should have counted them, I do see the variation. But since you've made me have to rethink and recount ,unless we get another photo entrant ...as much as I respect and learn from Duane, he is disqualified for not belonging to the commonwealth so you Heater retain the Gold, I move up to take Silver and third is now vacant, unless you can enter Genetix ;)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-04 03:44
    whiteox,

    Are we allowed more than one attempt?:)
  • GenetixGenetix Posts: 1,754
    edited 2014-08-04 06:37
    Not bad Heater for your first time. Do you use the pre-tin and reheat or tape and solder method?

    Whiteoxe, Duane's soldering is perfectly fine for a hobbyist but a production inspector might reject it. Duane admitted that had he known he would post a picture of his work, then he would have done a much better job.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-08-04 08:22
    Genetix,

    Do you use the pre-tin and reheat or tape and solder method?
    Yep.

    Step 1) Apply some solder, tin, to one of the pads the component should stick to. Not too much.

    Step 2) Place the component on its pads and tack it down by melting that tinning in the first step. At his point you have the opportunity to position it nicely. Good quality tweezers help here.

    Step 3) Solder down the other end of the component.

    Step 4) If needed revisit the first end of the component to make the joint nice. May require a dob of flux or perhaps a tad more solder.

    I have no idea what "tape and solder" and solder might be.

    Basically "dobs" and "tads" and feeling you way along are the secret to success. Much like cooking.

    As for "first time", I'm overjoyed that it works at all and nothing gets burned to oblivion:)
Sign In or Register to comment.