The Prop2 may not penetrate the ARM market, at all, and that would be just fine with me.
'penetrate the ARM market' can mean many things.
The P2 is not going to displace your $2 ARM, but there are a lot of larger ARMs out there, and some of those need external support.
A larger segment, is in Display-handling, where designs could naturally pack a P2 behind a LCD.
Now, it becomes an ARM peripheral, and the ARM user never makes a 'Processor choice' - he selects a Display that does what he needs.
I trust it will find adequate use among people who love designing things, and that we can compensate for possibly low device sales with development boards - perhaps ones targeting various applications.
Take a look at the FTDI Eve chip, and they offer LCD pairings, and Display bezels.
With modest tooling, you can sell Display handling products.
The RaspPi is a good lesson, in what volumes can be achieved with 'development boards'.
Then there is the rather large market space between large uC and FPGA/CPLD.
Smaller CPLDs can expand a Processor at modest costs, but they tend to be design specific.
Larger CPLD/FPGAs start to nudge the price, and package-pincount ramps in phase with capability.
That leaves room for the P2 to play in the Processor expansion markets, and certainly in a highly flexible way.
Imagine a RaspPi variant with a P2, all on one board, designed to mount behind a Touch-LCD ?
As I'm sure you can imagine, I haven't done any market research, as it seems a foregone conclusion that the world just wants more of what it's already getting (C, ARM chips, interchangeable/cheap labor). I've just been building what seems useful to me, a hardware/software designer of 34 years.
The Prop2 may not penetrate the ARM market, at all, and that would be just fine with me. I trust it will find adequate use among people who love designing things, and that we can compensate for possibly low device sales with development boards - perhaps ones targeting various applications.
That's it. Does that make anybody uneasy?
Not at all. You are making the P2 to be different, and different it certainly will be.
With all the recent changes, the P2s power has been dramatically increased. There will be a lot more useful things that a P2 will do with ease, and that means a lot more possible markets to tap. We all know they will be niche markets, but even niche markets can sell heaps.
I think we are guilty at times of applying a too simplistic market taxonomy. For example, where does the RPi fit? Is it industrial, commercial, hobbyist, educational? Whatever it is, it has already surpassed the two million mark in sales. Is it just a niche product? Or is our thinking too conventional and closed-minded? The P2 will be so unique that I'm not sure one should apply conventional market wisdom to it.
I love the RPi and use it all the time. I'm using it right now. But it sucks on some levels: Toggling a few lines whenever the processor and the OS get around it it isn't worth a miner's damn to me. Nor is the learning curve required to master it from bare metal. It is what it is. It is great for some things and sucky for others.
The P2 could be an adjunct to the RPi to provide the real-world control that many of us seek. Even better, though, it could be its own stand-alone, OS-less computer that might appeal to a wide spectrum of bare metal users and would-be users because the barrier isn't as high, but the performance and features are. Roll your own OS, share the ideas. How educational would that be?!
So the P2 is not necessarily competing for a slice of a fixed-sized pie. It can be its own thing, create its own market, and sell in large numbers that way·
A forum administrator deleted it, and for good reason. It was political in nature and not in line with forum guidelines. I would encourage hinv not to repost it. It will be deleted again if he does.
Phil,
Can you explain to me how the Global Currency Reset that is set to happen in early march does not affect everyone here and the timeline for the P2 getting to production?
I deleted your repeat post (but not the first one; that was done from within Parallax). It was political in nature, which is against forum guidelines. This is a technical forum. Posts related to politics (including national policy matters, even if they relate to technology) are outside the permitted realm of discussion here. Please reread the forum guidelines:
I was just pointing out that if we really want to see a P2, we have to turn this country around, or at least slow down the globalist cabal. If we don't we will likely see the dollar go by the wayside which will upset global economics. There are two things that I think may slow them down. One is to get Glass Steagall passed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1t7ScUUNpc
I don't know how it takes until march/april to get another shuttle run, but things will start to get a LOT more expensive in march unless we turn this country around.
I don't know why some would call this political, but it DIRECTLY affects our ability to get our hands on real P2 silicon. The solution isn't political, as both major political parties are owned by the global cabal. I don't actually know what the solution is, this far down the road, but it has to be spiritual at it's roots (maybe against forum rules too)
The trouble is, there are huge inertial forces at play that we cannot control. From what I've seen, no group of people can even agree on what's causing the problems, or if there even are problems. I suspect that someday we'll all understand that this was way deeper than what passes for politics, or even economics. Until then, things are most likely to play out in their current trajectories, until some kind of crash or reformation occurs. Hopefully, we'll be in an economic climate that permits us to make the Prop2 when the time shortly comes.
Phil: I understand about the forum guidelines, but I don't think we need to be hyper-allergic to mention of anything outside the box. It's just creates more intrigue. Please don't take offense that I commented on hinv's post.
I only deleted it again, since a Parallax forum administrator saw fit to delete the first one. However, I shall defer to your judgement on this one. No offense taken!
I'll leave out the other unmentionable legislation as it could be against the forum rules. This post does not reference any "the most recent upheaval in the legislature of man"
It is very political in nature to me. I would appreciate it if such things are not posted here.
My first response on the subject: "I find your post to be way off topic. I would appeal for it to be removed by moderators privately, but if it was removed, it would just perpetuate yet another conspiracy theory. Please just remove it for us as it is doing no one any good except the people who stand to benefit from such things (I.E. you-tubers making money off of ads)."
Those niche opportunities and killer features need to be ready to go on display as soon as there is silicon ready. The FPGA is the place to test and develop those but it needs to be done sooner than later.
Rick, we've got some nice plans in place to start a design on a Cyclone V A-7 FPGA on January 1st. This will be an entirely public process under Daniel's direction, from scoping out the feature set to designing and releasing the board. The focus after that will be P2 applications, with special involvement from people on this forum like yourself. We're starting this design as soon as we take care of a few outstanding FAE support issues for key customers. As you have the opportunity to spend more time on the forums, feel free to share our plans.
Separate issue:
As for the political talk, it doesn't belong on this forum. Forum moderators will delete it. There's a fine line which is not defined about what's suitable and what's not, and for this reason we've chosen moderators who have a strong understanding of Parallax customers along with an internal compass to make decisions about when to edit/delete. I realize how many feel [particularly my boss Chip] but this type of discussion has a strong tendency to excite people who are opinionated or deter those disinterested in the subject matter. It's a personal matter, not related to electronics/coding/P2 or anything else that we do. We don't make or sell politics at Parallax, unless it has to do with our business (i.e., FAA drone policy, patent litigation, copyright stuff, etc). Political topics might include quantitative easing, fiat currency, one-world order, and may have no reference to democrats or republicans.
If this is the kind of discussion you want I am aware of far more productive locations on the internet where you can go to exchange ideas. In fact, I also know somebody you can talk to who but he has better things to do with his time.
Religious discussions are also not allowed on the forums.
But you didn't delete all of the posts about people getting their jobs outsourced because.......?
Nobody would dare allege that enforcement of forum guidelines is totally objective. Every moderator action is a judgement call, and I was only following the lead of Parallax's own forum administrators. In any event, you've gotten your voice back, thanks to Chip, so I wouldn't be complaining too much if I were you.
Just as an FYI, repeat offenses, especially after a warning, can be grounds for banning from the forum. But you've been around awhile and have contributed much of value to prior discussions. Heaven knows, if I were a new user, I might be banned for some of my inflammatory posts!
I've been waiting for the P2 since I built my first P1 board waaay back when. I think I may have been the first one, ( a year or two into the original discussion ) to suggest that the P2 might be called the "TurboProp".
That was a wife or two ago... I stopped (Mostly) talking to them (wives) about how the new P2 was about to be "Real" in the next month or two . I recently made the mistake of investing the time to lay out a board based on the expected delivery of the P2 on the last shuttle run. ( But I hope to be able to use the basic design sometime in the by-and-by.)
I've been one of the ones out here saying: Enough is Enough! Can it! Ship it! BE DONE! Start the P3, but for God's sake! Put a period at the end of one of the sentences defining what the P2 will be!
With that said...
I find it oddly comforting to read Chips comment saying that he hasn't done any market research. That he is simply building something that he feels will be useful to people like himself.
Whatever we wind up with.... whenever that is... It will be a generation "down the road" from the P1 that was an amazingly and refreshingly unique creation of a unique mind. The P2 will be a unique thing in this world of Hyper-market researched products: Something that an individual guided and crafted ( with a little help from his friends) with regard only to perfection inside of his own heart and mind.
I may wish for something right now to use for a hopeful commercial success in my own life. But If I really, REALLY wanted that I would have already gone on with the design of a PIC or ARM based controller and stopped waiting for the ever almost done P2.
When push comes to shove... I suspect that I'm simply a disciple out here waiting for word to come down from "On High" that the time has come.
I believe that greatness rarely comes from market research and opinion surveys. It comes from brilliantly shining minds deciding to walk "the path less traveled" in spite of what others expect or believe and that is something that we can all respect.
In the words of another generation: Keep the faith Chip. Right on Brother. Right on!
Just as an FYI, repeat offenses, especially after a warning, can be grounds for banning from the forum. But you've been around awhile and have contributed much of value to prior discussions. Heaven knows, if I were a new user, I might be banned for some of my inflammatory posts!
-Phil
Yeah, maybe, but I still miss Hippy and Desilva, and would miss you too if you were to ban yourself.
Rick, we've got some nice plans in place to start a design on a Cyclone V A-7 FPGA on January 1st. This will be an entirely public process under Daniel's direction, from scoping out the feature set to designing and releasing the board. The focus after that will be P2 applications, with special involvement from people on this forum like yourself.
Interesting.
I think a P2 footprint should go on the Board as well, size impact should be minimal, and it gives the Boards
extra 'legs' after the P2 is released.
[January 1st, Gives Chip plenty of time to do a Cyclone V build targeting existing Cyclone V boards ... ]
I believe that greatness rarely comes from market research and opinion surveys. It comes from brilliantly shining minds deciding to walk "the path less traveled" in spite of what others expect or believe and that is something that we can all respect.
Very very true. I'm no economist but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the big dollars are focused on themselves. There's a herding effect to it. Marketing dollars are spent to direct the public's attention progressively along a pre-arranged sequence. It's possibly even proportioned between jostling parties in a controlled manner to some extent. No guarantees of course. Bribes and collusions galore. hehe.
The little guys are pushed aside ... but still do just fine on leftovers anyway.
I share Phil's concerns with features just for their own sake. But I also think a last minute expansion in capabilities is going to provide some offset to any interest that has fallen away due to delays.
People that may have lost interest in the P2 as per the known specification, might be a bit more willing to take another look now that it offers even more. Doubling the RAM is likely to be a godsend as it is one of the first items that people considering projects will consider.
My suggestion to somehow modify the P2 name to make people immediately aware that this is something more is sincere... even if we have had a lot of banter about what the name should be. It is Chip's brainchild and the naming rests entirely with him.
...I'm no economist but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the big dollars are focused on themselves. There's a herding effect to it. Marketing dollars are spent to direct the public's attention progressively along a pre-arranged sequence...
And after a while, they don't even need to worry about delivering quality, as the herd is conditioned to devour whatever slop will be presented.
Imagine the "microcontroller" equivalent of Miley Cyrus, Justin Beiber, or Kanye West. Maybe a 7400 quad NAND gate would suffice. Or maybe a buzzer made from a 555.
It is surely becoming the P^2, but I don't know if it deserves that unless some of the "metal" gets exposed (my early suggestion, {& certainly a personal agenda}).
Chip, they make SOT-23 gate packages, that might be a better fit, quads are too generous.
If 'Big dollars' really knew all they are thought to know, there would be no innovation in the world. Consider Thomas Alva Edison. Here is a obnoxious kid that toils over thousands of experiments to create a workable light bulb. And then he starts a company called General Electric and hires all his competition to create more inventions under his own name and patent ownership.
It worked for quite awhile, but along comes another obnoxious kid that sells IBM an OS that they are too lazy to write themselves and we are off and running again in a new direction.
The only fear I have is that Chip Gracy is not obnoxious enough.
Imagine the "microcontroller" equivalent of Miley Cyrus, Justin Beiber, or Kanye West. Maybe a 7400 quad NAND gate would suffice. Or maybe a buzzer made from a 555.
OH Smile Chip has figured out my business plan! Now what am I going to do with all these latching relays?
The only fear I have is that Chip Gracy is not obnoxious enough.
He can be as obnoxious as he desires here, which really isn't all that obnoxious. Anything goes except politics (which includes one world order, quantitative easing, gold instead of USD, hyperinflation, etc). That should be a sufficient gag order.
He can be as obnoxious as he desires here, which really isn't all that obnoxious. Anything goes except politics (which includes one world order, quantitative easing, gold instead of USD, hyperinflation, etc). That should be a sufficient gag order.
Well dang it, that means all we have to talk about is Propeller chips! LOL
Chip is one of the two nicest people you'll ever meet. Ken is the other.
He can be as obnoxious as he desires here, which really isn't all that obnoxious. Anything goes except politics (which includes one world order, quantitative easing, gold instead of USD, hyperinflation, etc). That should be a sufficient gag order.
Actually, people at Parallax are some of the most patient and considerate on the Internet. I presume it all is a top down influence from all the Gracey family. It is the world of business that is truly obnoxious. Undeerstood, anything goes.. except politics. That seems to be a good policy. Even some nations enforce a similar one. Nonetheless, I do realize that Parallax just doesn't want the irrational emotional flaming that politics brings into the forum. That I admire and try to respect.
...Undeerstood, anything goes.. except politics. That seems to be a good policy. Even some nations enforce a similar one.
I personally think that labeling everything mysterious or ominous as "politics" or "religion" and making it verboten to bring up is not how free people should be thinking, even on a little forum like this. To me, this begs the question, "Are we free?" It seems not. At least, our recognition that knowledge might put us at odds with the system, is a repellent to our learning. I think we can integrate this knowledge and function better than if we ignore the huge, looming realities that are reaching out to touch us, whether we acknowledge them, or not.
The thing that impresses me even more than the perversity of what goes on in the world, from the top down, is most people's adamant refusal to learn anything about it, no matter the evidence, while being staunchly captive to its wiles. It explains why things continue to work in such a broken manner. It's because most of us are pathetic wimps who just go along to get along, and we're not deserving of freedom. We ARE the problem, never minding the minority in high places who would abuse us - they require our cooperation. I'm repeatedly struck with the notion that everybody that wants to learn, is already free, and those that don't want to learn, won't. Learning the truth of things is disruptive and causes a person to reevaluate their priorities and seek a new basis upon which to operate. You can still be happy and hopeful, while being aware. It just takes a few years.
Loopy Byteloose: You're right about Parallax not wanting the emotional flaming which these matters usually entail. Maybe we could make a forum in our list called "The Looney Bin", just to keep people who don't want to be offended from getting blindsided. That would make these matters simply "off topic" if posted in the other forums, but still provide a venue for people to vent, where ideas could be shared and everyone could weigh their merits, on their own. We are living in quite vexing times and it would be salve to some souls for there to be a place where some exchange could take place in a friendly environment. It's kind of like how Fry's Electronics has frozen pizzas in a cooler near the checkout, just higher up the "needs" pyramid.
I personally think that labeling everything mysterious or ominous as "politics" or "religion" and making it verboten to discuss is not how free people should be thinking, even on a little forum like this. To me, this begs the question, "Are we free?" It seems not. At least, our recognition that knowledge might put us at odds with the system, and leave us in a quandary, keeps us from learning. I think we can integrate all knowledge available to us and function better than if we ignore the huge, looming realities that are reaching out to touch us, whether we acknowledge them, or not.
The thing that impresses me even more than the perversity of how the world system works, is most people's adamant refusal to learn anything about it, while they're staunchly captive to its wiles. It actually explains why things continue to work in the broken manner that they do. I'm often struck with the notion that everybody that wants to understand it is already learning, and those that don't want to understand it, won't, until maybe reality visits them in such a way that they'll shatter. Learning about how things actually work is disruptive and causes a person to reevaluate their priorities, and seek a new basis upon which to operate. You can still be happy and hopeful, while being aware.
Maybe when the P2 is done you need to take a break before starting on another and write a book: "The Tao of Chip"
Comments
Not here.
'penetrate the ARM market' can mean many things.
The P2 is not going to displace your $2 ARM, but there are a lot of larger ARMs out there, and some of those need external support.
A larger segment, is in Display-handling, where designs could naturally pack a P2 behind a LCD.
Now, it becomes an ARM peripheral, and the ARM user never makes a 'Processor choice' - he selects a Display that does what he needs.
Take a look at the FTDI Eve chip, and they offer LCD pairings, and Display bezels.
With modest tooling, you can sell Display handling products.
The RaspPi is a good lesson, in what volumes can be achieved with 'development boards'.
Then there is the rather large market space between large uC and FPGA/CPLD.
Smaller CPLDs can expand a Processor at modest costs, but they tend to be design specific.
Larger CPLD/FPGAs start to nudge the price, and package-pincount ramps in phase with capability.
That leaves room for the P2 to play in the Processor expansion markets, and certainly in a highly flexible way.
Imagine a RaspPi variant with a P2, all on one board, designed to mount behind a Touch-LCD ?
With all the recent changes, the P2s power has been dramatically increased. There will be a lot more useful things that a P2 will do with ease, and that means a lot more possible markets to tap. We all know they will be niche markets, but even niche markets can sell heaps.
I love the RPi and use it all the time. I'm using it right now.
The P2 could be an adjunct to the RPi to provide the real-world control that many of us seek. Even better, though, it could be its own stand-alone, OS-less computer that might appeal to a wide spectrum of bare metal users and would-be users because the barrier isn't as high, but the performance and features are. Roll your own OS, share the ideas. How educational would that be?!
So the P2 is not necessarily competing for a slice of a fixed-sized pie. It can be its own thing, create its own market, and sell in large numbers that way·
What happened to my post?
Is there some sensorship of unpopular posts that ARE related to the P2 discussion?
Doug
I don't know what you wrote or who erased it, Doug. Could you please try again?
Thanks,
-Phil
Can you explain to me how the Global Currency Reset that is set to happen in early march does not affect everyone here and the timeline for the P2 getting to production?
I deleted your repeat post (but not the first one; that was done from within Parallax). It was political in nature, which is against forum guidelines. This is a technical forum. Posts related to politics (including national policy matters, even if they relate to technology) are outside the permitted realm of discussion here. Please reread the forum guidelines:
Thanks,
-Phil
The trouble is, there are huge inertial forces at play that we cannot control. From what I've seen, no group of people can even agree on what's causing the problems, or if there even are problems. I suspect that someday we'll all understand that this was way deeper than what passes for politics, or even economics. Until then, things are most likely to play out in their current trajectories, until some kind of crash or reformation occurs. Hopefully, we'll be in an economic climate that permits us to make the Prop2 when the time shortly comes.
Phil: I understand about the forum guidelines, but I don't think we need to be hyper-allergic to mention of anything outside the box. It's just creates more intrigue. Please don't take offense that I commented on hinv's post.
I only deleted it again, since a Parallax forum administrator saw fit to delete the first one. However, I shall defer to your judgement on this one. No offense taken!
-Phil
"...forums were created to promote and allow ongoing discussions about, but not limited to, products designed and developed by Parallax Inc."
What I posted about the Global Currency Reset DIRECTLY RELATES to our ability to get our hands on the P2. I would really like to have a Propeller 2, not another Osborne 2. If you didn't listen to it, maybe that is why you misjudged. Listen: http://radio.goldseek.com/nuggets/williams.12.04.13.mp3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sjkkTbJ9k4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgiOXhwo4vw
I'll leave out the other unmentionable legislation as it could be against the forum rules. This post does not reference any "the most recent upheaval in the legislature of man"
My first response on the subject: "I find your post to be way off topic. I would appeal for it to be removed by moderators privately, but if it was removed, it would just perpetuate yet another conspiracy theory. Please just remove it for us as it is doing no one any good except the people who stand to benefit from such things (I.E. you-tubers making money off of ads)."
Rick, we've got some nice plans in place to start a design on a Cyclone V A-7 FPGA on January 1st. This will be an entirely public process under Daniel's direction, from scoping out the feature set to designing and releasing the board. The focus after that will be P2 applications, with special involvement from people on this forum like yourself. We're starting this design as soon as we take care of a few outstanding FAE support issues for key customers. As you have the opportunity to spend more time on the forums, feel free to share our plans.
Separate issue:
As for the political talk, it doesn't belong on this forum. Forum moderators will delete it. There's a fine line which is not defined about what's suitable and what's not, and for this reason we've chosen moderators who have a strong understanding of Parallax customers along with an internal compass to make decisions about when to edit/delete. I realize how many feel [particularly my boss Chip] but this type of discussion has a strong tendency to excite people who are opinionated or deter those disinterested in the subject matter. It's a personal matter, not related to electronics/coding/P2 or anything else that we do. We don't make or sell politics at Parallax, unless it has to do with our business (i.e., FAA drone policy, patent litigation, copyright stuff, etc). Political topics might include quantitative easing, fiat currency, one-world order, and may have no reference to democrats or republicans.
If this is the kind of discussion you want I am aware of far more productive locations on the internet where you can go to exchange ideas. In fact, I also know somebody you can talk to who but he has better things to do with his time.
Religious discussions are also not allowed on the forums.
Ken Gracey
Nobody would dare allege that enforcement of forum guidelines is totally objective. Every moderator action is a judgement call, and I was only following the lead of Parallax's own forum administrators. In any event, you've gotten your voice back, thanks to Chip, so I wouldn't be complaining too much if I were you.
Just as an FYI, repeat offenses, especially after a warning, can be grounds for banning from the forum. But you've been around awhile and have contributed much of value to prior discussions. Heaven knows, if I were a new user, I might be banned for some of my inflammatory posts!
-Phil
That was a wife or two ago... I stopped (Mostly) talking to them (wives) about how the new P2 was about to be "Real" in the next month or two . I recently made the mistake of investing the time to lay out a board based on the expected delivery of the P2 on the last shuttle run. ( But I hope to be able to use the basic design sometime in the by-and-by.)
I've been one of the ones out here saying: Enough is Enough! Can it! Ship it! BE DONE! Start the P3, but for God's sake! Put a period at the end of one of the sentences defining what the P2 will be!
With that said...
I find it oddly comforting to read Chips comment saying that he hasn't done any market research. That he is simply building something that he feels will be useful to people like himself.
Whatever we wind up with.... whenever that is... It will be a generation "down the road" from the P1 that was an amazingly and refreshingly unique creation of a unique mind. The P2 will be a unique thing in this world of Hyper-market researched products: Something that an individual guided and crafted ( with a little help from his friends) with regard only to perfection inside of his own heart and mind.
I may wish for something right now to use for a hopeful commercial success in my own life. But If I really, REALLY wanted that I would have already gone on with the design of a PIC or ARM based controller and stopped waiting for the ever almost done P2.
When push comes to shove... I suspect that I'm simply a disciple out here waiting for word to come down from "On High" that the time has come.
I believe that greatness rarely comes from market research and opinion surveys. It comes from brilliantly shining minds deciding to walk "the path less traveled" in spite of what others expect or believe and that is something that we can all respect.
In the words of another generation: Keep the faith Chip. Right on Brother. Right on!
Ken B.
Agreed on missing Hippy and DeSilva (and OldManEarl, too!).
Interesting.
I think a P2 footprint should go on the Board as well, size impact should be minimal, and it gives the Boards
extra 'legs' after the P2 is released.
[January 1st, Gives Chip plenty of time to do a Cyclone V build targeting existing Cyclone V boards ...
Very very true. I'm no economist but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the big dollars are focused on themselves. There's a herding effect to it. Marketing dollars are spent to direct the public's attention progressively along a pre-arranged sequence. It's possibly even proportioned between jostling parties in a controlled manner to some extent. No guarantees of course. Bribes and collusions galore. hehe.
The little guys are pushed aside ... but still do just fine on leftovers anyway.
People that may have lost interest in the P2 as per the known specification, might be a bit more willing to take another look now that it offers even more. Doubling the RAM is likely to be a godsend as it is one of the first items that people considering projects will consider.
My suggestion to somehow modify the P2 name to make people immediately aware that this is something more is sincere... even if we have had a lot of banter about what the name should be. It is Chip's brainchild and the naming rests entirely with him.
And after a while, they don't even need to worry about delivering quality, as the herd is conditioned to devour whatever slop will be presented.
Imagine the "microcontroller" equivalent of Miley Cyrus, Justin Beiber, or Kanye West. Maybe a 7400 quad NAND gate would suffice. Or maybe a buzzer made from a 555.
Chip, they make SOT-23 gate packages, that might be a better fit, quads are too generous.
jr
It worked for quite awhile, but along comes another obnoxious kid that sells IBM an OS that they are too lazy to write themselves and we are off and running again in a new direction.
The only fear I have is that Chip Gracy is not obnoxious enough.
OH Smile Chip has figured out my business plan! Now what am I going to do with all these latching relays?
He can be as obnoxious as he desires here, which really isn't all that obnoxious. Anything goes except politics (which includes one world order, quantitative easing, gold instead of USD, hyperinflation, etc). That should be a sufficient gag order.
Chip is one of the two nicest people you'll ever meet. Ken is the other.
Actually, people at Parallax are some of the most patient and considerate on the Internet. I presume it all is a top down influence from all the Gracey family. It is the world of business that is truly obnoxious. Undeerstood, anything goes.. except politics. That seems to be a good policy. Even some nations enforce a similar one. Nonetheless, I do realize that Parallax just doesn't want the irrational emotional flaming that politics brings into the forum. That I admire and try to respect.
I personally think that labeling everything mysterious or ominous as "politics" or "religion" and making it verboten to bring up is not how free people should be thinking, even on a little forum like this. To me, this begs the question, "Are we free?" It seems not. At least, our recognition that knowledge might put us at odds with the system, is a repellent to our learning. I think we can integrate this knowledge and function better than if we ignore the huge, looming realities that are reaching out to touch us, whether we acknowledge them, or not.
The thing that impresses me even more than the perversity of what goes on in the world, from the top down, is most people's adamant refusal to learn anything about it, no matter the evidence, while being staunchly captive to its wiles. It explains why things continue to work in such a broken manner. It's because most of us are pathetic wimps who just go along to get along, and we're not deserving of freedom. We ARE the problem, never minding the minority in high places who would abuse us - they require our cooperation. I'm repeatedly struck with the notion that everybody that wants to learn, is already free, and those that don't want to learn, won't. Learning the truth of things is disruptive and causes a person to reevaluate their priorities and seek a new basis upon which to operate. You can still be happy and hopeful, while being aware. It just takes a few years.
Loopy Byteloose: You're right about Parallax not wanting the emotional flaming which these matters usually entail. Maybe we could make a forum in our list called "The Looney Bin", just to keep people who don't want to be offended from getting blindsided. That would make these matters simply "off topic" if posted in the other forums, but still provide a venue for people to vent, where ideas could be shared and everyone could weigh their merits, on their own. We are living in quite vexing times and it would be salve to some souls for there to be a place where some exchange could take place in a friendly environment. It's kind of like how Fry's Electronics has frozen pizzas in a cooler near the checkout, just higher up the "needs" pyramid.
Maybe when the P2 is done you need to take a break before starting on another and write a book: "The Tao of Chip"
C.W.