The phrase "private use" is what the NFL uses to sue pastors for showing NFL games at church... The way I read it, Parallax developing an app for use at schools would not be private use...
Oh, and a new iPad Mini? Hmm, when did you drink that special Kool Aid, I sent you?
"Picture your self in a boat on a river with marsh mellow trees and marmalade skies. Somebody calls you ...."
I got the iPad Mini to solve a navigation problem in a Javascript application. I'll reveal that publicly some day.
Regarding connectivity ....
Based on some reading I did, I think that the Bluetooth 4.0 (or 2.1 ERG) interface can be coerced into behaving as a serial port using the HID or that another interface (L2CAP?). That's probably what the Cortado solution is doing.
In any event, an ActivityBoard would need to change to accommodate some things. The production cost would be 2 headers and more PCB holes.
The FTDI section should be changed so that to a second XBEE connector (for Wifly or some BlueToogh module) can be mounted on it and have access to signals going to P30/31 and Propeller Reset. The P31 connection goes through a buffer at the moment, and some type of a jumper or logic selector should allow choosing access.
But IMHO that cable is more expensive than a RasPi + WIFI.
Mike
Not even close. A bare Pi with no power supply will run $35-$40, the same as the cable. Add in a power supply, case, keyboard, monitor, SD card, etc, and suddenly, that cable is looking cheap. Not that it matters. If they don't want to pay $40 for the cable, why would they pay more for another solution?
Why reinvent the wheel? Get some Windows 95 computers. Maybe even laptops. They have serial ports, should be able to handle a Spin compiler, and best of all, should be available FREE! Even the OS is easy - M$ doesn't waterboard you if you reinstall Windows 95 on multiple computers, unlike their newer OSes. An old Mac would also do the job, but may be harder to get free.
Maybe one of these would do the job: http://propellerpowered.wikispaces.com/Pocket+Mini+Computer <g>. No more expensive than a Pi, and easier to program. Maybe even cheaper, if Parallax gives them a nice educational discount on the Quickstart board.
If we wait long enough for the bureaucracy to deal with the problem, it will go away. The students will graduate, the hardware will be shoved to the back of the closet, and it will be forgotten. Better to take action now and actually do something than to talk about it until the students have gone away. Just ignore the useless Apple-haters and get something started.
I resent that...we are not so narrow minded, there plenty of other closed systems we hate
That monster cable thing does not even solve the problem as far as I can tell. Having that cable does not magically allow you to program a Prop from a pad.
At the suggestion for a surface RT app, that is doable and the system is quite capable, but the starting idea is that iPads are fairly ubiquitious in the schools already and the question was - is there a way kids can use their iPads to program our robots? I still think the best answer is a web-app on a rasp pi or something that wirelessly programs the robots over XBee. The app can be a block language, C or something else. (LOGO???)
Well, I finally bought the iPad Mini Retina with 4G. It's fantastic. I can edit when posting to the forum and that's something I could never do on my xoom - IMHO it's an android problem. I do not care that its a closed system. In fact, I like it that way - I just wanted something that works properly.
.... I still think the best answer is a web-app on a rasp pi or something that wirelessly programs the robots over XBee. The app can be a block language, C or something else. (LOGO???)
I've been working on a flow-chart code translator. Hopefully it will be language agnostic - that is a few generic things should be populated by the target language programmer. It is only in the GUI design phase and language interface specification phase right now. So far it runs on iPad, iPhone, Android pad or phones, and Chrome, Firefox, Internet Exploder, and Safari desktops. It is not designed to actually program things (yet), but it should enable phone programming, etc.... It is not a product for Parallax. I'll post something once I have one or two languages working.
Well, I finally bought the iPad Mini Retina with 4G. It's fantastic. I can edit when posting to the forum and that's something I could never do on my xoom - IMHO it's an android problem. I do not care that its a closed system. In fact, I like it that way - I just wanted something that works properly.
Yes, I've heard you complain about the Xoom before but it is a 3 year old tablet and compared to any tablet that's the very latest is not a comparison at all. I can edit on my various droids but that also depends upon the browser.
BTW, I regularly program over Bluetooth links (and now Telnet). I can use DroidEdit and just talk to the target Prop. But that is of course in a non-approved language/method "Forth"!
Yes, I've heard you complain about the Xoom before but it is a 3 year old tablet and compared to any tablet that's the very latest is not a comparison at all. I can edit on my various droids but that also depends upon the browser.
BTW, I regularly program over Bluetooth links (and now Telnet). I can use DroidEdit and just talk to the target Prop. But that is of course in a non-approved language/method "Forth"!
My Xoom is just 2 years old and finally out of contract. Motorola/Telstra stopped supporting sw upgrades about a year ago. It never edited the forum successfully even though I tried many keyboard replacement software. Apple always supports their older products for quite a long time in this business. Obviously if some hw is missing, you don't get those features.
My wife's iPhone 4 is IIRC over 3 years old but she has only had it since xmas (was our daughters). Just the other day updated it to the new iOS7, no problems. Then yesterday we decided to replace it with an iPhone 5c - nice! I have an iPhone 5. We didn't realise what we had been missing with the previous phones.
So, as son as I get time (not likely soon) I want to see how I/we can program the Prop. There is a free editor by Apple called "Pages". Not sure if this is capable or too word processor like.
My Xoom is just 2 years old and finally out of contract. Motorola/Telstra stopped supporting sw upgrades about a year ago. It never edited the forum successfully even though I tried many keyboard replacement software. Apple always supports their older products for quite a long time in this business. Obviously if some hw is missing, you don't get those features.
My wife's iPhone 4 is IIRC over 3 years old but she has only had it since xmas (was our daughters). Just the other day updated it to the new iOS7, no problems. Then yesterday we decided to replace it with an iPhone 5c - nice! I have an iPhone 5. We didn't realise what we had been missing with the previous phones.
So, as son as I get time (not likely soon) I want to see how I/we can program the Prop. There is a free editor by Apple called "Pages". Not sure if this is capable or too word processor like.
It seems that every tablet that Telstra have promoted have been "lemons" and that tablet was released in Jan 2011. I've also found that even unlocked phones through Telstra do not get the latest upgrades simply because they have been touched by Telstra who are too slack to pass on upgrades so the tip is not to buy unlocked phones or tablets through Telstra dealers. I made the mistake with a Galaxy Nexus phone thinking that the Nexus updates were maintained by Google, which they are, except of course if they have been touched by Telstra
The Nexus 7 I bought from Google last year got upgraded to the latest Kit Kat the other month without any fuss. So with these tablets and even the cheap 3G tablet from Aldi I can edit files easily and using Blueterm just check, debug and program my Props in the field. Most of the systems are spitting out diagnostic information over the serial ports so connecting to any one of them immediately tells you what is going on, the state of it's sensors, and what it's in the middle of etc. Type a few "commands" and change the way it operates etc. I like Apple Macs (although I use Linux myself) but iPad is never myPad to do what I want.
Hmm, not sure if this has been mentioned. There are tons of cheapy Android tablets available everywhere for $50-70.
Is it possible to make that some sort of docking station for the Prop?
If so, I would envision this:
Android tablet running as a dock, with a simple webserver on a static IP.
Child codes up his Prop on an iPad text editor
Child connects his Prop to the Android/dock, surfs to the static webserver, and pastes in his code
Child hits the big "PROGRAM PROP" button, and the Android dock either downloads the program, or does some sort of compile first and then downloads to target.
OK, its obvous that this does not give each child instant access, but must share.
This is easily resolved by breaking kids up into groups of x, with each group having access to an Android dock.
If a school is really interested in pursuing the iPads as a training tool, shelling out for 4-5 Androids is going to be easier than trying to get all the parents to shell out for some dongle-dohicky.
Oh, I guess this falls under the RPi suggestion. Still think the RPi solution would potentially pull student interest away from the Prop.
OT- Mark, you're coming across as a rarely seen fanboi on this forum, and pretty insulting at that.
As you are new here, you might not be aware that this site/forum is actually different than most of the other uC and other forums on the web.
Disagreements here are usually kept civil. If you can't handle complaints about Apple without resorting to name calling, then hopefully the Mods will give you a time-out.
to quote:
*UPDATE: Confirmed working on Galaxy Nexus!Slick USB 2 Serial Terminal allows you to use your tablet with your Prolific or FTDI based USB
to Serial adapter and connect to your serial devices.
NO ROOTING is necessary! All you need is this app and a compatible usb to serial cable
(majority of cables based off the prolific or ftdi chipset).
Want to hook your Nexus 7 directly to your arduino, then all you need is a OTG cable
and a standard usb cable. Get the free (at this time) UsbTerminal app from the
playstore and install it.You will want to set the Arduino serial port and the nexus 7
both the the same speed. We use 9600.
Think that this would work with a Samsung Galaxy Tab? Cables appear to be cheap on Amazon. I have a friend that needs to download pix off an old Motorola phone into a tablet.
Edit: Bluetooth won't connect in this case.
Jim
Maybe the AppleTV device would help with this... Supposedly, FTDI chips are recognized by the AppleTV. And, there's a thing called "mirroring" that lets a newer iPad or iPhone connect to the AppleTV.
So, maybe that would give you a physical connection over USB....
From what I learned last night,m this may be a simple thing to do with a N7.
Or not?
Attaching a mouse or keyboard should be simple.
Anything "deeper", like a pen drive, requires the device be "rooted".
I'd expect the same to be required for a serial connection.
But who knows until we can get hands-on?
I'm going to order a USB OTG cable for my Nexus 7 and Galaxy S3. I've successfully used bluetooth on both to communicate with the Prop in terminal mode. I use Bluetooth SPP Pro app. From what I've read courtesy of the links provided here earlier it looks like the Android devices will communicate with the Prop using the USB cable and terminal.
>From what I've read courtesy of the links provided here earlier it looks like the Android devices will communicate with the Prop using the USB cable and terminal
WHAT IS OTG FOUNCTION? USB On-The-Go, often abbreviated USB OTG, is a specification that allows USB devices such as digital audio players or mobile phones to act as a host allowing a USB Flash Drive, mouse, or keyboard to be attached.USB On-The-Go (OTG) allows two USB devices to talk to each other without requiring the services of a personal computer (PC). Although OTG appears to add peer-to-peer connections to the USB world, it does not. Instead, USB OTG retains the standard USB host/peripheral model, in which a single host talks to USB peripherals. OTG does introduce, however, the dual-role device, or simply stated, a device capable of functioning as either host or peripheral. Part of the magic of OTG is that a host and peripheral can exchange roles if necessary. Before OTG, the concept of an embedded host was already established in the USB world. Instead of duplicating the full UHCI/OHCI USB controllers and drivers built into PCs, most embedded host chips provide limited hosting capabilities. This makes them better suited to the embedded environment than a PC with its huge resources and infinite capacity for drivers and application software. So this cable can completely instead of a high-priced USB Adapter to accomplish the same work. Attention: please make sure that your device has OTG function first: As far as our knowledge, it can works well with Google NEXUS 7 NEXUS 10 ,Samsung I9000 N7000 galaxy S4 II s3 s2, Archos G9 80 tablet, Archos A70 tablet, NIKON D90, XOOM, Toshiba TG01, Nokia N810, N900 and OTHER Android devices WITH custom ROM/Kernel that support USB Host mode. (Unfortunately LENOVO A1 tablet AND BlackBerry Playbook do NOT support OTG, we hope they will support OTG in future, THANK YOU)
Ok Parallax- it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.
I just downloaded the ArduinoDroid app and it allows you to fetch your files (sketches) from your Dropbox, edit, compile and then download to the Arduino board with just the OTG USB cable.
We need to have this same capability using Prop Tool.
Ok Parallax- it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.
I just downloaded the ArduinoDroid app and it allows you to fetch your files (sketches) from your Dropbox, edit, compile and then download to the Arduino board with just the OTG USB cable.
We need to have this same capability using Prop Tool.
No mention of if the SD size also includes SD serial access, and I've seen comments about SD connector reliabilty, so the ideal here would be two choices of the one PCB design :
* SD Sized and encased, with power via SD Connector and a working SD pathway.
* Same PCB can have edge-pads, to allow direct MODULE soldering, smd style - with more IO, this can also be smarter and give more access to the CPU resource.
Only that I have not seen a Bluetooth LE device used with a Prop board yet... Not a huge obstacle.
dgately
I know I've been away from this forum for awhile... (my loss!) but I do have some news... I have a fully working BLE112 (BlueGiga) connected to a prop on my own custom board and it's all driven from an iPhone app (or iPad).
I'm no longer sure where to post this new project and my prior (XBEE, SHT: "PropSense" board) project. But I'm reading the forums today to get a better feel. I've submitted an article proposal to Nuts & Volts addressing this new project PropBLE-LEDString message board. I took on this project entirely to learn (1) how to connect to the BLE112 from the Prop and (2) to learn how easy it would be to replace front panels / debug panels with iPhone/iPad apps. I'm a full-time iOS Developer (Freelancing) and I also do my own hardware projects which have been exclusively prop-based since I first joined this forum...
So, watch for a much more detailed post with schematics and BLE112 OBEX objects coming soon!
This is awesome, this functionality is awesome but from a security perspective before this functionality moves from classroom to reference design and into commercial applications I wanted to mention something.
That UDP packet to do the reset - you might want (in the reference design / documentation) to drop a switch in that line between the module and the prop's reset pin.
Here's my concern:
This design goes into a commercial product, product ends up on the net - let's say a HVAC system. The control is normal serial IO using TCP in the wifi module etc... firmware contains authentication etc so it's safe to put online. If you don't place a dip switch or something similar on that wire a UDP packet is capable of silently rebooting the system or initiating a firmware refresh.
To be clear - not suggesting that you change / add to the educational design. Just wanted to mention it so that when the final design / software / Application Notes are written this is addressed in some way.
I know I've been away from this forum for awhile... (my loss!) but I do have some news... I have a fully working BLE112 (BlueGiga) connected to a prop on my own custom board and it's all driven from an iPhone app (or iPad).
This is awesome, this functionality is awesome but from a security perspective before this functionality moves from classroom to reference design and into commercial applications I wanted to mention something.
That UDP packet to do the reset - you might want (in the reference design / documentation) to drop a switch in that line between the module and the prop's reset pin.
Here's my concern:
This design goes into a commercial product, product ends up on the net - let's say a HVAC system. The control is normal serial IO using TCP in the wifi module etc... firmware contains authentication etc so it's safe to put online. If you don't place a dip switch or something similar on that wire a UDP packet is capable of silently rebooting the system or initiating a firmware refresh.
To be clear - not suggesting that you change / add to the educational design. Just wanted to mention it so that when the final design / software / Application Notes are written this is addressed in some way.
Thanks,
Red
Red,
This is a great observation. The ActivityBoard will most likely end up with a small redesign for iPad user educational purposes because !RST is not easily accessible (neither are P28/29 for that matter!), and this should be a serious consideration there because the board is generally useful in other cases (it's cheap!). It's good to teach things like that too.
It shouldn't be too hard to at least add a !RST pin to the current XBEE 4 pin header ... Some XBEE GPIOs would be good to have also!
Additionally there are other boards that may need a little reset help. For example, the !RST pin is almost never available on a header for boards with an FTDI chip - this is a hackability issue of course, so what ever can be hacked will work, but if someone doesn't want to hack with an Exact-O knife and soldering iron, a little header would be very useful.
In the news post from Ken I see that the plans are already using Wireless. Cool!
I thought I'd float another idea which has different sideeffects than the wireless.
Has anybody worked thru the feasibility of building a "BLE PropPlug"? This would be on one end the BLE radio (eg., BLE112 fm BlueGiga) and on the other a 4-wire propPlug interface? In the middle we would have a propeller handing/translating BLE interaction. If this could be made to work it would facilitate the use of many prop development boards and would allieviate the need for redirection of the WiFi hardware on the iPad allowing it to stay connected with email and services like dropbox during the programming effort. There is of course the issue of how would the BLE PropPlug powered? is it sufficient to draw power from the target or must it have it's own power?
FYI- one of my current PropBLE boards might be able serve as a prototype (for the "it has it's own power" case) for this "BLE PropPlug".
Thanks for considering and commenting!
(I've attached my Schematics for reference... just ignore the LED string driver parts ;-)
Hey Stephen! I think we spoke a while back about the exact topic of this thread, didn't we? Maybe two years ago we discussed it over the phone - refresh my memory if it's the case.
BLE isn't fully omitted from our future engineering efforts, but it will be if the XBee WiFi continues to function as it appears it is in our early testing. One thing that we didn't make clear is that your wireless connection to the Propeller can go through a router, so there's no need to switch the iPad over to an ad-hoc connection which causes you to loose your WiFi when programming a Propeller. A little bit of experience with this inconvenience is all it took during our early experimentation. . .
Jazzed, you are correct about the potential revisions to the Propeller Activity Board to support this effort.
To all of you: your inspiration and tips on this thread are a big reason why we were able to get this far on this project. So, a tremendous "thanks" to you!
In the news post from Ken I see that the plans are already using Wireless. Cool!
I thought I'd float another idea which has different sideeffects than the wireless.
Has anybody worked thru the feasibility of building a "BLE PropPlug"? This would be on one end the BLE radio (eg., BLE112 fm BlueGiga) and on the other a 4-wire propPlug interface? In the middle we would have a propeller handing/translating BLE interaction. If this could be made to work it would facilitate the use of many prop development boards and would allieviate the need for redirection of the WiFi hardware on the iPad allowing it to stay connected with email and services like dropbox during the programming effort. There is of course the issue of how would the BLE PropPlug powered? is it sufficient to draw power from the target or must it have it's own power?
FYI- one of my current PropBLE boards might be able serve as a prototype (for the "it has it's own power" case) for this "BLE PropPlug".
Thanks for considering and commenting!
(I've attached my Schematics for reference... just ignore the LED string driver parts ;-)
-Stephen, KZ0Q
Stephen,
I'm curious as to what app you are using to communicate with the BLE112?
Comments
I got the iPad Mini to solve a navigation problem in a Javascript application. I'll reveal that publicly some day.
Regarding connectivity ....
Based on some reading I did, I think that the Bluetooth 4.0 (or 2.1 ERG) interface can be coerced into behaving as a serial port using the HID or that another interface (L2CAP?). That's probably what the Cortado solution is doing.
In any event, an ActivityBoard would need to change to accommodate some things. The production cost would be 2 headers and more PCB holes.
The FTDI section should be changed so that to a second XBEE connector (for Wifly or some BlueToogh module) can be mounted on it and have access to signals going to P30/31 and Propeller Reset. The P31 connection goes through a buffer at the moment, and some type of a jumper or logic selector should allow choosing access.
Not even close. A bare Pi with no power supply will run $35-$40, the same as the cable. Add in a power supply, case, keyboard, monitor, SD card, etc, and suddenly, that cable is looking cheap. Not that it matters. If they don't want to pay $40 for the cable, why would they pay more for another solution?
Why reinvent the wheel? Get some Windows 95 computers. Maybe even laptops. They have serial ports, should be able to handle a Spin compiler, and best of all, should be available FREE! Even the OS is easy - M$ doesn't waterboard you if you reinstall Windows 95 on multiple computers, unlike their newer OSes. An old Mac would also do the job, but may be harder to get free.
Maybe one of these would do the job: http://propellerpowered.wikispaces.com/Pocket+Mini+Computer <g>. No more expensive than a Pi, and easier to program. Maybe even cheaper, if Parallax gives them a nice educational discount on the Quickstart board.
If we wait long enough for the bureaucracy to deal with the problem, it will go away. The students will graduate, the hardware will be shoved to the back of the closet, and it will be forgotten. Better to take action now and actually do something than to talk about it until the students have gone away. Just ignore the useless Apple-haters and get something started.
- Mark
That monster cable thing does not even solve the problem as far as I can tell. Having that cable does not magically allow you to program a Prop from a pad.
Yes, I've heard you complain about the Xoom before but it is a 3 year old tablet and compared to any tablet that's the very latest is not a comparison at all. I can edit on my various droids but that also depends upon the browser.
BTW, I regularly program over Bluetooth links (and now Telnet). I can use DroidEdit and just talk to the target Prop. But that is of course in a non-approved language/method "Forth"!
Thanks for this. I bought the Pro version. I've always wanted a way to easily link to the Dropbox and look at/edit files with my phone or tablet.
My wife's iPhone 4 is IIRC over 3 years old but she has only had it since xmas (was our daughters). Just the other day updated it to the new iOS7, no problems. Then yesterday we decided to replace it with an iPhone 5c - nice! I have an iPhone 5. We didn't realise what we had been missing with the previous phones.
So, as son as I get time (not likely soon) I want to see how I/we can program the Prop. There is a free editor by Apple called "Pages". Not sure if this is capable or too word processor like.
It seems that every tablet that Telstra have promoted have been "lemons" and that tablet was released in Jan 2011. I've also found that even unlocked phones through Telstra do not get the latest upgrades simply because they have been touched by Telstra who are too slack to pass on upgrades so the tip is not to buy unlocked phones or tablets through Telstra dealers. I made the mistake with a Galaxy Nexus phone thinking that the Nexus updates were maintained by Google, which they are, except of course if they have been touched by Telstra
The Nexus 7 I bought from Google last year got upgraded to the latest Kit Kat the other month without any fuss. So with these tablets and even the cheap 3G tablet from Aldi I can edit files easily and using Blueterm just check, debug and program my Props in the field. Most of the systems are spitting out diagnostic information over the serial ports so connecting to any one of them immediately tells you what is going on, the state of it's sensors, and what it's in the middle of etc. Type a few "commands" and change the way it operates etc. I like Apple Macs (although I use Linux myself) but iPad is never myPad to do what I want.
Is it possible to make that some sort of docking station for the Prop?
If so, I would envision this:
Android tablet running as a dock, with a simple webserver on a static IP.
Child codes up his Prop on an iPad text editor
Child connects his Prop to the Android/dock, surfs to the static webserver, and pastes in his code
Child hits the big "PROGRAM PROP" button, and the Android dock either downloads the program, or does some sort of compile first and then downloads to target.
OK, its obvous that this does not give each child instant access, but must share.
This is easily resolved by breaking kids up into groups of x, with each group having access to an Android dock.
If a school is really interested in pursuing the iPads as a training tool, shelling out for 4-5 Androids is going to be easier than trying to get all the parents to shell out for some dongle-dohicky.
Oh, I guess this falls under the RPi suggestion. Still think the RPi solution would potentially pull student interest away from the Prop.
OT- Mark, you're coming across as a rarely seen fanboi on this forum, and pretty insulting at that.
As you are new here, you might not be aware that this site/forum is actually different than most of the other uC and other forums on the web.
Disagreements here are usually kept civil. If you can't handle complaints about Apple without resorting to name calling, then hopefully the Mods will give you a time-out.
So I ordered two of them.
Now get to hookin' up.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=slickdevlabs.apps.usbtoserialterm&hl=en>
If this makes a serial connection, then what would it take to program a Propeller?
to quote:
*UPDATE: Confirmed working on Galaxy Nexus!Slick USB 2 Serial Terminal allows you to use your tablet with your Prolific or FTDI based USB
to Serial adapter and connect to your serial devices.
NO ROOTING is necessary! All you need is this app and a compatible usb to serial cable
(majority of cables based off the prolific or ftdi chipset).
break
http://www.instructables.com/id/Nexus-7-and-the-Arduino/
Want to hook your Nexus 7 directly to your arduino, then all you need is a OTG cable
and a standard usb cable. Get the free (at this time) UsbTerminal app from the
playstore and install it.You will want to set the Arduino serial port and the nexus 7
both the the same speed. We use 9600.
break
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1980223
Edit: Bluetooth won't connect in this case.
Jim
So, maybe that would give you a physical connection over USB....
Or not?
Attaching a mouse or keyboard should be simple.
Anything "deeper", like a pen drive, requires the device be "rooted".
I'd expect the same to be required for a serial connection.
But who knows until we can get hands-on?
We had some discussion of this in the Tachyon thread a while back - http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/141061-TACHYON-A-very-fast-and-compact-Forth-SD-file-handling-TELNET-FTP-WEB-servers?p=1152541#post1152541
This from amazon seller (£1.79) http://www.amazon.co.uk/POWERPLUS-Micro-Host-Cable-Nexus/dp/B00CDX7LHM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1386796049&sr=8-3&keywords=otg+usb+cable
Dave
I just downloaded the ArduinoDroid app and it allows you to fetch your files (sketches) from your Dropbox, edit, compile and then download to the Arduino board with just the OTG USB cable.
We need to have this same capability using Prop Tool.
Seconded!
It doesn't have to be a FREE app, either.
reasonable, of course, but I'd pay for that.
How much you want?
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5282472/intel-announces-edison-a-computer-the-size-of-an-sd-card
has built-in Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity.
No mention of if the SD size also includes SD serial access, and I've seen comments about SD connector reliabilty, so the ideal here would be two choices of the one PCB design :
* SD Sized and encased, with power via SD Connector and a working SD pathway.
* Same PCB can have edge-pads, to allow direct MODULE soldering, smd style - with more IO, this can also be smarter and give more access to the CPU resource.
I know I've been away from this forum for awhile... (my loss!) but I do have some news... I have a fully working BLE112 (BlueGiga) connected to a prop on my own custom board and it's all driven from an iPhone app (or iPad).
I'm no longer sure where to post this new project and my prior (XBEE, SHT: "PropSense" board) project. But I'm reading the forums today to get a better feel. I've submitted an article proposal to Nuts & Volts addressing this new project PropBLE-LEDString message board. I took on this project entirely to learn (1) how to connect to the BLE112 from the Prop and (2) to learn how easy it would be to replace front panels / debug panels with iPhone/iPad apps. I'm a full-time iOS Developer (Freelancing) and I also do my own hardware projects which have been exclusively prop-based since I first joined this forum...
So, watch for a much more detailed post with schematics and BLE112 OBEX objects coming soon!
- Stephen, KZ0Q
This is awesome, this functionality is awesome but from a security perspective before this functionality moves from classroom to reference design and into commercial applications I wanted to mention something.
That UDP packet to do the reset - you might want (in the reference design / documentation) to drop a switch in that line between the module and the prop's reset pin.
Here's my concern:
This design goes into a commercial product, product ends up on the net - let's say a HVAC system. The control is normal serial IO using TCP in the wifi module etc... firmware contains authentication etc so it's safe to put online. If you don't place a dip switch or something similar on that wire a UDP packet is capable of silently rebooting the system or initiating a firmware refresh.
To be clear - not suggesting that you change / add to the educational design. Just wanted to mention it so that when the final design / software / Application Notes are written this is addressed in some way.
Thanks,
Red
Sounds great.
Welcome back Stephen.
Red,
This is a great observation. The ActivityBoard will most likely end up with a small redesign for iPad user educational purposes because !RST is not easily accessible (neither are P28/29 for that matter!), and this should be a serious consideration there because the board is generally useful in other cases (it's cheap!). It's good to teach things like that too.
It shouldn't be too hard to at least add a !RST pin to the current XBEE 4 pin header ... Some XBEE GPIOs would be good to have also!
Additionally there are other boards that may need a little reset help. For example, the !RST pin is almost never available on a header for boards with an FTDI chip - this is a hackability issue of course, so what ever can be hacked will work, but if someone doesn't want to hack with an Exact-O knife and soldering iron, a little header would be very useful.
I thought I'd float another idea which has different sideeffects than the wireless.
Has anybody worked thru the feasibility of building a "BLE PropPlug"? This would be on one end the BLE radio (eg., BLE112 fm BlueGiga) and on the other a 4-wire propPlug interface? In the middle we would have a propeller handing/translating BLE interaction. If this could be made to work it would facilitate the use of many prop development boards and would allieviate the need for redirection of the WiFi hardware on the iPad allowing it to stay connected with email and services like dropbox during the programming effort. There is of course the issue of how would the BLE PropPlug powered? is it sufficient to draw power from the target or must it have it's own power?
FYI- one of my current PropBLE boards might be able serve as a prototype (for the "it has it's own power" case) for this "BLE PropPlug".
Thanks for considering and commenting!
(I've attached my Schematics for reference... just ignore the LED string driver parts ;-)
-Stephen, KZ0Q
BLE isn't fully omitted from our future engineering efforts, but it will be if the XBee WiFi continues to function as it appears it is in our early testing. One thing that we didn't make clear is that your wireless connection to the Propeller can go through a router, so there's no need to switch the iPad over to an ad-hoc connection which causes you to loose your WiFi when programming a Propeller. A little bit of experience with this inconvenience is all it took during our early experimentation. . .
Jazzed, you are correct about the potential revisions to the Propeller Activity Board to support this effort.
To all of you: your inspiration and tips on this thread are a big reason why we were able to get this far on this project. So, a tremendous "thanks" to you!
Ken Gracey
Stephen,
I'm curious as to what app you are using to communicate with the BLE112?
Thanks!
Don