For the record any code I write and post here is free for anyone to use and modify in anyway they want.
I'm in that same boat -- almost seems like anyone posting code in a public forum would do so under the same conditions. Can you imagine Coca Cola posting their recipe and then saying, "Here it is, but you cannot use this without paying us!" Don't post code you don't want to share. If you want to share something for your ego's sake, make a YouTube video and post a link to that. Your ego is satisfied and your code protected.
Once upon a time there was a sole proprietorship that lacked technical skills, so it offered to the market a product that incorporated a $40 microcontroller to do the job of an 82-cent microcontroller. The $40 processor was a low-threshold educational device while the the 82-cent processor (which had greater throughput) involved a steeper learning curve.
Needless to say, the product couldn't compete in the marketplace. Rather than sharpen his technical skills and apply some basic engineering economics, the sole proprietor sharpened his legal skills, blaming corporate greed, communist conspiracies, and every other boogyman in the book for his failure.
Needless to say, that approach failed, too, except from the perspective of the lawyers involved and the manufacturer of the $40 educational device.
The End
Note: The preceding story is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to individuals past or present is purely coincidental.
When a file is posted here is i.e. this forum, the download is a link also, so I assume you mean a link to another server i.e. offsite.
Regardless of the physical location i.e. (server) of the file this has no bearing on the license of the software.
To Quote Ken from the first page:
This caters for code snippets but does not address code and docs etc in the form of files (unless posted to the OBEX).
This I am sure will spawn a new several page thread down the line sometime.
Cheers.
Actually files are covered if uploaded:
"•Code uploaded to OBEX and the web forum complies with the MIT license, whether expressly included, or not."
Notice it says "web forums" as well as OBEX. So a hyperlink to an offsite file would not be affected, but a file actually uploaded as a forum attachment would be.
I also enjoyed your story, but I must say that you have me figured all wrong. I am probably one of the most positive thinkers that you will ever meet, however I always seem to be surrounded by negative thinkers. When I was young, I started my education in the public school system, and at the second grade, I was transferred to a private Lutheran school. Upon arriving at this school, I was considered an instant outsider, and was not part of the normal click. The boys in my class often picked on me or made fun of me, and many times, my only option was to physically defend myself. I must admit that in the beginning, there were many times that I feared the ring of the bell, but before long, it was my adversaries that feared the ring of the bell, because I got a lot more practice at physical defense then the others. Throughout my adolescence and into my young adult life, I settled many issues with my fists. Not that I initially wanted to be a fighter, but I was forced into it. Sure there were a couple of times when I still feared the bell, but for the most part, I could hold my own with someone of the same stature. Then I got to the point in my life where I determined it was much better to resolve my problems with my mind, instead of my fists, so I practiced hard at it, and to this day, that is still how I try to resolve my problems, with the exception of being attacked, at which point, I will defend myself.
It all boils down to right, wrong, and defense.
In the past, I also became a party boy, and did my fair share of drinking. After many headaches and two DUIs, I finally came to the conclusion that drinking was adversely affecting my life and could potentially affect the lives of other people, so I stopped drinking completely. DUI laws are put into place to protect the innocent and I was wrong to breaks these laws, so it was only fair that I should suffer the consequences of my actions, however the penalities can be quite extreme.
Once again, there is right, wrong, and defense. As long as I am aware of the laws, I know what is expected of me, and what I should expect from other people. It is not about fear or negative thinking, it is all a matter of being informed, making the right decisions based upon the standards of society, being able to defend myself, and knowing when I have been legally wronged. It is a fact of life that law exists, and we all must abide by it.
Once again, there is right, wrong, and defense. As long as I am aware of the laws, I know what is expected of me, and what I should expect from other people. It is not about fear or negative thinking, it is all a matter of being informed, making the right decisions based upon the standards of society, being able to defend myself, and knowing when I have been legally wronged. It is a fact of life that law exists, and we all must abide by it.
There are so many laws in existence these days you could be breaking one right now and not know it and the irony is "ignorance is no defense".
Yep. It's the same reason I don't post shirtless pictures of myself-- besides, some things you just can't unsee!
I don't know why I feel the need to get a philosophical on this, but since we're all family here (yeah, somewhat dysfunctional, but hey! We put the "fun" in "dysfunctional", right?), I'm going to toss it in.
[PhilosophicalExposition]
This whole episode should be seen as a milestone, not a stumbling block. And it certainly should not be a cause for worry.
All good expository writing has three points, so here they come...
1) Worry is unhelpful. It doesn't change the past, and it can't affect the future. But it can make you feel miserable.
2) Worry is unrealistic. The more we worry over something the worse the problem seems to get. It's where the "making a mountain out of a molehill" phrase comes from.
3) Worry is unhealthy. Headaches, backaches, tightness in the chest, etc.-- our bodies just weren't made for worrying.
Since everyone here is supposed to be on the same side, it's not a win/lose, or even a pass/fail (unless, of course, it's a spectacular Mythbusters style failure-- then any code I have posted can be upgraded to "undocumented feature").
[/PhilosophicalExposition]
You know something? Sometimes I just write good stuff.
The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect those of Parallax, it's employees, partners, or forum members. No animals or children were harmed in the production of this post.
Bruce: Determining when we've been wronged can be a slippery slope. At one time or another, you've thought practically everyone here had wronged you. I recall specifically MagIO going out of his way to help you, and you jumped all over him.
I felt wronged at the time, and I eventually apologized to Andreas, but it is none of your business. However it is my business that you keep constantly attacking me, and I have not done a single thing to you, except to tell you that I no longer supported a specific thread.
You have made numerous attacks on me, and I wish you would stop.
For the record any code I write and post here is free for anyone to use and modify in anyway they want.
I'm in that same boat -- almost seems like anyone posting code in a public forum would do so under the same conditions. Can you imagine Coca
Cola posting their recipe and then saying, "Here it is, but you cannot use this without paying us!"
Thing is someone did exactly that, not with a monetary price of course but a price none the less. That is why we are having this tedious, interminable debate and new forums rules imposed.
I felt wronged at the time, and I eventually apologized to Andreas, but it is none of your business. However it is my business that you keep constantly attacking me, and I have not done a single thing to you, except to tell you that I no longer supported a specific thread.
You have made numerous attacks on me, and I wish you would stop.
Fair enough.
As you stop living up to every negative stereotype of Americans there is, I'll stop posting critiques. Nothing would please me more than to see you develop mad programming skills.
As you stop living up to every negative stereotype of Americans there is, I'll stop posting critiques. Nothing would please me more than to see you develop mad programming skills.
Thing is someone did exactly that, not with a monetary price of course but a price none the less. That is why we are having this tedious, interminable debate and new forums rules imposed.
I understand both sides. A year or so ago somebody called me and asked for help with a program that a friend of theirs had written. While I don't normally like to fix other programmers' code, I told him to send the program and I'd have a look. I laughed out loud when I saw the program -- it was code I had written a few years before (I use a very specific format and naming style in my programs; they're easy to identify). The only thing the other person did was change my name to his, break an important line that he thought trivial, and then sent a the code and a bill to his friend. It took about 5s to fix the program because it had worked before this other so-called programmer put his name on it. I called the guy back, told him how to fix the program, then explained that he should demand his money back as that code was not written by the person who claimed it.
On another occasion a person called me about using some of my code for my N&V column in a commercial product. I explained that the code carried an MIT license and he was free to use it -- though not exclusively -- to make as much money as he could. He pressed, wanting to make sure I was owed no royalties. I assured him that I would never ask for a cut of his profits, and that he should know before using anything I provide under MIT license that I would not participate in his company's losses, either. He hung up without saying good-bye....
We all post for our ego (I'm an actor, ego is important to our survival). COMMON SENSE seems to say that if you post something publicly, you're sharing it. COMMON DECENCY says that if one uses code written by another, proper attribution should be provided in the new source.
COMMON SENSE seems to say that if you post something publicly, you're sharing it. COMMON DECENCY says that if one uses code written by another, proper attribution should be provided in the new source.
I'm totally with you on that.
We all post for our ego...
Not all, some of us muster up the courage to post our gibberish here in the hope that someone can show us how to fix it or make it better.
The guys who reply, well, they have ego radiating in all directions:)
Then there are those who hope others may be interested in a project because two heads are better than one and many hands make light work etc etc.
I tend to see the exchange of code here and elsewhere as a kind of market where the currency is knowledge, ideas and code.
I think perhaps we might all be going about this the wrong way. Since Parallax has made a decision concerning MIT licenses concerning all posts, we can either abandon ship or try to resolve a solution so that Parallax and all forum members will have a fair degree of protection. Without going into the finer details of the pros and cons of copyrights and various licenses, I think we should focus on the obstacles and clearly define them. At this point, we should have plenty of data, because we have certainly beat this subject to death, so we should review what has been said and pick out, refine, and clearly define a list of obstacles. Once obstacles have been broken down to a list, we should openly discuss each obstacle to search for a resolution.
If everyone else is fine with the policy, I sure am, but then again, I have my own set of rules about which code I would or would not use, but I have a fair degree of knowledge pertaining to copyrights, licensing, and contracts. However, I truly believe there are and will be many forum members that don't.
The policy makes it really simple for a lot of people and when there is trouble, you can say "I told you so" and demonstrate that high knowledge then, rather than continue to involve all manner of stuff now, when it's just not a worry.
Better, if you see that going on, why not go and just help them sort it out so that the intent here is nice, open, easy, like the rest of us are gonna do?
However, please grant me the same courtesy, because I clearly do not agree with your point of view on this issue. You cannot ignore it, because it simply will not go away, and advising people to ignore it, is just plain bad advice.
Comments
As for other utilities, probably should link to them where they live off site, unless you know you can post them here as MIT.
I'm in that same boat -- almost seems like anyone posting code in a public forum would do so under the same conditions. Can you imagine Coca Cola posting their recipe and then saying, "Here it is, but you cannot use this without paying us!" Don't post code you don't want to share. If you want to share something for your ego's sake, make a YouTube video and post a link to that. Your ego is satisfied and your code protected.
If You will have all that are posted on forum as MIT
Forget it.
Only things that need have MIT are Source codes to Propeller I / Propeller II.
Other things need always have license that not give Productions rights by other --- If not another are stated with posting.
Needless to say, the product couldn't compete in the marketplace. Rather than sharpen his technical skills and apply some basic engineering economics, the sole proprietor sharpened his legal skills, blaming corporate greed, communist conspiracies, and every other boogyman in the book for his failure.
Needless to say, that approach failed, too, except from the perspective of the lawyers involved and the manufacturer of the $40 educational device.
The End
Note: The preceding story is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to individuals past or present is purely coincidental.
When a file is posted here is i.e. this forum, the download is a link also, so I assume you mean a link to another server i.e. offsite.
Regardless of the physical location i.e. (server) of the file this has no bearing on the license of the software.
To Quote Ken from the first page:
This caters for code snippets but does not address code and docs etc in the form of files (unless posted to the OBEX).
This I am sure will spawn a new several page thread down the line sometime.
Cheers.
Actually files are covered if uploaded:
"•Code uploaded to OBEX and the web forum complies with the MIT license, whether expressly included, or not."
Notice it says "web forums" as well as OBEX. So a hyperlink to an offsite file would not be affected, but a file actually uploaded as a forum attachment would be.
C.W.
I also enjoyed your story, but I must say that you have me figured all wrong. I am probably one of the most positive thinkers that you will ever meet, however I always seem to be surrounded by negative thinkers. When I was young, I started my education in the public school system, and at the second grade, I was transferred to a private Lutheran school. Upon arriving at this school, I was considered an instant outsider, and was not part of the normal click. The boys in my class often picked on me or made fun of me, and many times, my only option was to physically defend myself. I must admit that in the beginning, there were many times that I feared the ring of the bell, but before long, it was my adversaries that feared the ring of the bell, because I got a lot more practice at physical defense then the others. Throughout my adolescence and into my young adult life, I settled many issues with my fists. Not that I initially wanted to be a fighter, but I was forced into it. Sure there were a couple of times when I still feared the bell, but for the most part, I could hold my own with someone of the same stature. Then I got to the point in my life where I determined it was much better to resolve my problems with my mind, instead of my fists, so I practiced hard at it, and to this day, that is still how I try to resolve my problems, with the exception of being attacked, at which point, I will defend myself.
It all boils down to right, wrong, and defense.
In the past, I also became a party boy, and did my fair share of drinking. After many headaches and two DUIs, I finally came to the conclusion that drinking was adversely affecting my life and could potentially affect the lives of other people, so I stopped drinking completely. DUI laws are put into place to protect the innocent and I was wrong to breaks these laws, so it was only fair that I should suffer the consequences of my actions, however the penalities can be quite extreme.
Once again, there is right, wrong, and defense. As long as I am aware of the laws, I know what is expected of me, and what I should expect from other people. It is not about fear or negative thinking, it is all a matter of being informed, making the right decisions based upon the standards of society, being able to defend myself, and knowing when I have been legally wronged. It is a fact of life that law exists, and we all must abide by it.
There are so many laws in existence these days you could be breaking one right now and not know it and the irony is "ignorance is no defense".
If only there was the golden rule, sigh.
Just a thought
Yep. It's the same reason I don't post shirtless pictures of myself-- besides, some things you just can't unsee!
I don't know why I feel the need to get a philosophical on this, but since we're all family here (yeah, somewhat dysfunctional, but hey! We put the "fun" in "dysfunctional", right?), I'm going to toss it in.
[PhilosophicalExposition]
This whole episode should be seen as a milestone, not a stumbling block. And it certainly should not be a cause for worry.
All good expository writing has three points, so here they come...
1) Worry is unhelpful. It doesn't change the past, and it can't affect the future. But it can make you feel miserable.
2) Worry is unrealistic. The more we worry over something the worse the problem seems to get. It's where the "making a mountain out of a molehill" phrase comes from.
3) Worry is unhealthy. Headaches, backaches, tightness in the chest, etc.-- our bodies just weren't made for worrying.
Since everyone here is supposed to be on the same side, it's not a win/lose, or even a pass/fail (unless, of course, it's a spectacular Mythbusters style failure-- then any code I have posted can be upgraded to "undocumented feature").
[/PhilosophicalExposition]
You know something? Sometimes I just write good stuff.
The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect those of Parallax, it's employees, partners, or forum members. No animals or children were harmed in the production of this post.
I felt wronged at the time, and I eventually apologized to Andreas, but it is none of your business. However it is my business that you keep constantly attacking me, and I have not done a single thing to you, except to tell you that I no longer supported a specific thread.
You have made numerous attacks on me, and I wish you would stop.
Fair enough.
As you stop living up to every negative stereotype of Americans there is, I'll stop posting critiques. Nothing would please me more than to see you develop mad programming skills.
Good debate are --->
To attack what others have said.
Bad habit --->
Is to attack people that said it.
I understand both sides. A year or so ago somebody called me and asked for help with a program that a friend of theirs had written. While I don't normally like to fix other programmers' code, I told him to send the program and I'd have a look. I laughed out loud when I saw the program -- it was code I had written a few years before (I use a very specific format and naming style in my programs; they're easy to identify). The only thing the other person did was change my name to his, break an important line that he thought trivial, and then sent a the code and a bill to his friend. It took about 5s to fix the program because it had worked before this other so-called programmer put his name on it. I called the guy back, told him how to fix the program, then explained that he should demand his money back as that code was not written by the person who claimed it.
On another occasion a person called me about using some of my code for my N&V column in a commercial product. I explained that the code carried an MIT license and he was free to use it -- though not exclusively -- to make as much money as he could. He pressed, wanting to make sure I was owed no royalties. I assured him that I would never ask for a cut of his profits, and that he should know before using anything I provide under MIT license that I would not participate in his company's losses, either. He hung up without saying good-bye....
We all post for our ego (I'm an actor, ego is important to our survival). COMMON SENSE seems to say that if you post something publicly, you're sharing it. COMMON DECENCY says that if one uses code written by another, proper attribution should be provided in the new source.
Throw COMMON COURTESY into the mix (as you and most others do) and I think you have the basic rules for Forum use!!
Not all, some of us muster up the courage to post our gibberish here in the hope that someone can show us how to fix it or make it better.
The guys who reply, well, they have ego radiating in all directions:)
Then there are those who hope others may be interested in a project because two heads are better than one and many hands make light work etc etc.
I tend to see the exchange of code here and elsewhere as a kind of market where the currency is knowledge, ideas and code.
That has to be the best post so far.
The policy makes it really simple for a lot of people and when there is trouble, you can say "I told you so" and demonstrate that high knowledge then, rather than continue to involve all manner of stuff now, when it's just not a worry.
Better, if you see that going on, why not go and just help them sort it out so that the intent here is nice, open, easy, like the rest of us are gonna do?
I thought posting source on a public forum - well - became public.
No, NO!!!! You'll awaken the Balrog!!!! Shhhh, shhhh......come quietly this way.....
NOOOO!! Don't open it back up. This has turned rather like picking at a scab!
EDIT: Rick, you beat me to it. Great minds travel the same erratic pathways...
However, please grant me the same courtesy, because I clearly do not agree with your point of view on this issue. You cannot ignore it, because it simply will not go away, and advising people to ignore it, is just plain bad advice.