And so, you imply that like the TV repairman and the flat screen monitor, less service will be required and though we save the planet, mechanics will be put out of business.
Methinks not, cars have brakes and steering and wheel alignment and lubrication requirements.repairman and the flat screen monitor, less service will be required and though we save the planet, mechanics will be put out of business.
Methinks not, cars have brakes and steering and wheel alignment and lubrication requirements
Nonetheless, the computer age continues to downsize banks and more employee layoffs. Nobody is need to count dollars and cents as more and more transfers are via plastic cards and ATMs.
The Industrial Revolution may go down in history as the Golden Age of Employment, and The Computer Revolution as the Great Destruction of Employment. Let the robots do it all. Of course, a robot is only as good as its last program(mer).
Grid down no gas pumps . same story ... no Drive .
Own a House with PV on the roof and Volla some simple Slow charge .
My Ideal car would be a Volt that took LPG
as for parking . we need to not feel entitled to such a close space.....
park far away get some walking in .
Not so simple. You can easily fill the tank and a gas can in a few minutes as a hurricane is rolling in. But to recharge batteries takes time and the power may go down before you are done. Grid goes down, you still might have a 5 gallon gerry can full of fuel to get somewhere. Solar charging? If your roof survived and the panels didn't get hit by a tree. They do use glass, don't they?
With CNG or LNG, you still may have storage at home in case of emergency that is more secure as it isn't going to be sitting on a roof. Besides, if the sun isn't out in full force, you are going to limp along.
Parking far away doesn't work well in the inner city. You still have to look and look. After all, when there are many more cars than parking spaces it is all about turn over, not location. Electric bicycles can just about park anywhere and not be ticketed.
Not so simple. You can easily fill the tank and a gas can in a few minutes as a hurricane is rolling in. But to recharge batteries takes time and the power may go down before you are done. Grid goes down, you still might have a 5 gallon gerry can full of fuel to get somewhere.
[
Solar charging? If your roof survived and the panels didn't get hit by a tree. They do use glass, don't they?
With CNG or LNG, you still may have storage at home in case of emergency that is more secure as it isn't going to be sitting on a roof. Besides, if the sun isn't out in full force, you are going to limp along.
Parking far away doesn't work well in the inner city. You still have to look and look. After all, when there are many more cars than parking spaces it is all about turn over, not location. Electric bicycles can just about park anywhere and not be ticketed.
no one uses LNG as it can evap over time so only Busses can really use it and Eat the loses and CNG is not at 3000 PSI out the gas Co . you neeed what amounts to a 3 stage Scuba tank compressonr to pump it .
LPG can be X filled by some heat to the bulk tank . or by Gravity at a slower rate .
both NGs are useless in a dead grid....
EVs are left plugged in all the time .. unless you came back form one heck of a trip you are gonna have more .25 batt full.
75 Miles per hour of charge....... get 2 H warning . more then enough miles to get our of dodge ..
half of it is that people are not prepared ! this sounds rude but its Very True .... no more Kid gloves people . forgo the Ipad .. buy a genset and mantain it ! ... your Life depends on it .....
Sandy was a Sad tragedy for all people who were involved . I just hope for Xmas a 800 W 120USD genset is under more trees this Year ..
you Dont need much juice to run a blower for a furnace ...
Thailand now has CNG stations everywhere. Here in Taiwan, there is a CNG station just a few blocks away. Most of the autos that fill up are taxis. Yes, it is high pressure storage with a series of step-down regulators, but the fact that so much can be stored is what has made it successful - long haul trucking and fleet vehicles.
Yeah, I suppose the pumps at a fuel station would be down in a dead grid. So it is diesel and gasoline.
You live in Oregon. Do you want to move around wet and muddy power cords everyday?
EV need an automated docking in the floor of your garage and on the undercarriage of the vehicle or a 'skyhook' of some sort above the car.
Before that was the hughes paddle . a inductive charger !
It was tested underwater ..
prooane is a Ideal gas . its a Liquid you can store a Ton! . the tanks are sealed and not insulated like a thermos is for LNG .
No evap . under 300 PSI vapor pressure . can be trans filled by gravity ! faster if some Heat us applyed to to the master tank.
and its easy to get and distribute .
works on fork trucks for decades ...
baby steps . LPG then in 20 Years CNG then H2. too many people are going for the holy grail of H2 ..... Like in the monty python film . there are too many road blocks to really use H2 " now"
most of them are US .. People .. we dont want to change .
Not so simple. You can easily fill the tank and a gas can in a few minutes as a hurricane is rolling in. But to recharge batteries takes time and the power may go down before you are done. Grid goes down, you still might have a 5 gallon gerry can full of fuel to get somewhere. Solar charging? If your roof survived and the panels didn't get hit by a tree. They do use glass, don't they?
A generator should cover your electrical necessities. I spent seven years in Guam where Typhoons and extended power outages were common. We even lost power for about a week due to a snake once. While I didn't have an EV, if I did, I would have just used the generator to charge it.
Okay, the fence that the snake is biting isn't the electrified one. You can see the electrified fence (and it's insulators) in the other photo on Snopes.
Here in Portland, I'm seeing lots of charging stations now. And I'm starting to see Volts connected to them regularly too.
Personally, of the cars I've seen so far, I like the Volt the most. The hybrid cars are very complex, and don't really have a lot of EV range. Mostly gas with some light EV assist, or a short trip on some models can be done all EV. To me, that doesn't seem like the kind of return that would work in my case.
A Volt is actually an electric car, with a gas assist, and that's an important distinction. If driving needs fit the target use case, you've got an electric car, with some options to get there, even when there is "out of range."
I would totally drive an EV. Right now, I drive a really old Corolla that gets 40MPG on most of my driving use cases, and it's long past paid for. Got it for a song 200+K miles ago... But it's a gas car, and it's an old gas car, and well, it's an old car. After seeing the Volt, I decided to not ever buy a new gas car again. That means I might not ever buy a new car again, but it also means I just might spring for a real EV with range / combustion assist of some kind.
What I want to do now is somehow rent or evaluate one for a week or so to really explore the differences. The electric car is on that "cool list of things I want" and so it's very attractive on that basis. Not sure about the net gains for the planet...
Speaking of the paddle - anyone know how to make a diy version of a 100 to 200 Watt inductive charger? My Googling has been unsuccessful so far.
you are in luck ! a senior here at Oregon tech is doing ( with some insight from me ) a wireless Ipod charging mat .)
BUT its totaly scaleable ! . what kind of Vout ?
Guam Eh I know a man who sells genset there " USSI " is the firms name.
Potato
Personally, of the cars I've seen so far, I like the Volt the most. The hybrid cars are very complex, and don't really have a lot of EV range. Mostly gas with some light EV assist, or a short trip on some models can be done all EV. To me, that doesn't seem like the kind of return that would work in my case.
A Volt is actually an electric car, with a gas assist, and that's an important distinction. If driving needs fit the target use case, you've got an electric car, with some options to get there, even when there is "out of range."
This is why I LOVE the volt ! ..
the prius is a over sized starter motor on a normal car in comparason to the volt ! .
One of the problems with electric cars is not that noticeable in Oregon, but very obvious for a lot of the year in Minnesota ... Internal combustion engines produce a lot of waste heat that can be used to heat the interior of the car. The energy for this heat has to come from somewhere. It can be generated using an efficient special-purpose catalytic heater. It can be generated by the motor used to run the generator for a hybrid car, but it needs to be available on demand from somewhere.
A generator should cover your electrical necessities. I spent seven years in Guam where Typhoons and extended power outages were common. We even lost power for about a week due to a snake once. While I didn't have an EV, if I did, I would have just used the generator to charge it.
So you envision an EV, a generator, and gasoline storage..................
@Mike Green: My 1960 Corvair had a gasoline heater, totally seperate from the engine in the back. Complete self-contained unit in the front trunk, a small gas line ran to it, it had a full-sized ignition coil, spark plug, electric blower and exhaust line. It didn't work and I disconnected it since parts were scarce. But supposedly they worked very well and would start putting out full heat in a matter of seconds after starting, at an operational cost of ~2 mpg. Later models (like my '67) ducted engine cooling air up front, along with gas & oil smells. Yummy!
Lately in Kaohsiung, I am experience extremely quiet and effortless bicycle riders overtaking me in traffic on my motor scooter. These are electric bikes and the experience is rather weird. But the people look happy, almost sublime as they float by.
I guess an electric car can have a kerosene heater installed as an add on. They have plenty of extra space and I have always thought that automobiles could use a lot more insulation. But air conditioning is a whole separate issue.
Electric cars may be great in San Francisco where one can do without heater or A/C, but in Los Angles or Houston or New Orleans - people won't transition to a car without A/C without a fight.
Maybe all those battery cells under the floorboards of the Telsa will emit heat upward ;0)
Plus there is air conditioning in much of the U.S. An electric car can not get me to my Dad and Sister (800 miles), 3 or 4 times a year, or to my grand kids (170 miles), 20 times a year. A Leaf is doubtful for much of Kansas City, nearest big city to Leavenworth. Buying a second car, plus taxes and insurance, just to drive around town, majority of trips but probably only 10% of my mileage, does not make economic sense. If I were married and had a 2 car family, perhaps it would be feasible for one to be an electric. A Volt can drive the distance but is too small for me 3 grand kids, a dog, and fishing gear.
I just looked at the 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid. ~$35k nicely equipped. My 2008 Ford Edge Limited (paid for), with dual zone heat/air and heated leather seats is worth ~$15,000 so I'd have to come up with (or finance) another $20k. I drive 100 miles round trip to work (Minneapolis/St. Paul) and get 20mpg right now. I don't think I'd get the claimed 47 mpg with the Fusion because I have a lead foot and would be spending most of my drive on the gasoline engine (and how does the heat and a/c work?). So lets say I'd get 45 mpg out of it (I'm thinking it would be closer to 40, though). So I burn about 1600 gals of gas/year in the Edge. I would burn about 710 gallons in the Fusion. Using those numbers and $3.50/gal of gas I would save about $3100/year driving the Fusion. But what are the payments on $20k? I think I'll stick with my Edge - I can pull my boat with it.
However, if gas goes up to $4.50 or $5.00 or higher it might start to be worth it to me. But there is no way there is an EV in my future - just wouldn't work with what is currently available.
Plus there is air conditioning in much of the U.S. An electric car can not get me to my Dad and Sister (800 miles), 3 or 4 times a year, or to my grand kids (170 miles), 20 times a year. A Leaf is doubtful for much of Kansas City, nearest big city to Leavenworth. Buying a second car, plus taxes and insurance, just to drive around town, majority of trips but probably only 10% of my mileage, does not make economic sense. If I were married and had a 2 car family, perhaps it would be feasible for one to be an electric. A Volt can drive the distance but is too small for me 3 grand kids, a dog, and fishing gear.
John Abshier
This is where I think there is a business opportunity, something like rental vehicles, but more like a co-op or something. You buy in for a certain amount of days per year and "share" a larger vehicle within a group.
that we you own a car for say 90% of your normal use, then use the "group" car for longer trips, hauling things etc.
Currently the majority of people buy a very large, heavy, inefficient vehicle because they have a need for it's capacity on rare occasions.
I'd love to have a nice truck, but I drive a VW Jetta instead because it covers 98% of my needs, I just rent a truck on the rare occasion that I need to move something.
This is where I think there is a business opportunity, something like rental vehicles, but more like a co-op or something. You buy in for a certain amount of days per year and "share" a larger vehicle within a group.
that we you own a car for say 90% of your normal use, then use the "group" car for longer trips, hauling things etc.
Currently the majority of people buy a very large, heavy, inefficient vehicle because they have a need for it's capacity on rare occasions.
I'd love to have a nice truck, but I drive a VW Jetta instead because it covers 98% of my needs, I just rent a truck on the rare occasion that I need to move something.
C.W.
Actually, there are already some co-op systems in place, mostly in larger cities.
Also, if you only need a SUV a few times/year, it may be cheaper to just rent one when you need it.
Transporting a family and luiggage on a trip?
Rooftop box or a small trailer may give you enough carrying capacity in a smaller vehicle.
Edit: Tuk Tuks are cool no matter what they run on.
(I have heard rumours that there are some converted to LPG in Bangkok, but have never seen them)
And the Bond Bug is beautiful.
Stretch it a bit, lower it and drop in an electric motor and batteries and you'd end up with something even the Jetsons would envy you.
Plus there is air conditioning in much of the U.S. An electric car can not get me to my Dad and Sister (800 miles), 3 or 4 times a year, or to my grand kids (170 miles), 20 times a year. A Leaf is doubtful for much of Kansas City, nearest big city to Leavenworth. Buying a second car, plus taxes and insurance, just to drive around town, majority of trips but probably only 10% of my mileage, does not make economic sense. If I were married and had a 2 car family, perhaps it would be feasible for one to be an electric. A Volt can drive the distance but is too small for me 3 grand kids, a dog, and fishing gear.
John Abshier
One could own an EV and rent another car for road trips. But with Missouri in record heat this summer, I don't see how one would survive without a/c. There are swamp cooler if the humidity is low, but they just don't work well in many locations.
Of course, electric bicycles and electric motor scooters provide very good cooling - just drive faster.
800 miles, 800 friggin miles? For that I'd be wanting to take the train or fly. No point having a huge car sitting around all year to do that.
Air conditioning, is it really so that you cannot function in the states without A/C? I'm sure much of the worlds population lives in similar temperatures without.
Becomming efficient is more than just optimizing the vehicle, perhaps whole life styles need to change.
Off topic, but some years ago a friend of mine moved from Ohio to Houston, Texas. For his new job he needed a van, so he bought one new. The dealer wouldn't take his (2 year old) Chevy in trade because it had no AC, but suggested he try to sell it himself. Six months later we had to drive it back to Ohio so his Dad could sell it for him, because every potential buyer in Texas just laughed and said "no thanks" when told it had no AC. I guess you'd have to visit Houston in July to truly understand the need for AC in an automobile
So how on earth did people function there before there was A/C in cars?
Over here in Scandinavia the whole place shuts down for July so people can go to the countryside and enjoy something of the short summer. Perhaps the something similar could be done in Houston, a chance to run away from the heat.
I believe there may be a market for Stanley Steamers.
If you ever experience a Stanley Steamer blowing its pressure relief valves, you wouldn't say that. There is a big enough cloud of steam to take the starch out of everything within 20 meters and ruin all the ladies hair and makeup. Suddenly everyone has wrinkled clothing.
Comments
Methinks not, cars have brakes and steering and wheel alignment and lubrication requirements.repairman and the flat screen monitor, less service will be required and though we save the planet, mechanics will be put out of business.
Methinks not, cars have brakes and steering and wheel alignment and lubrication requirements
Nonetheless, the computer age continues to downsize banks and more employee layoffs. Nobody is need to count dollars and cents as more and more transfers are via plastic cards and ATMs.
The Industrial Revolution may go down in history as the Golden Age of Employment, and The Computer Revolution as the Great Destruction of Employment. Let the robots do it all. Of course, a robot is only as good as its last program(mer).
Not so simple. You can easily fill the tank and a gas can in a few minutes as a hurricane is rolling in. But to recharge batteries takes time and the power may go down before you are done. Grid goes down, you still might have a 5 gallon gerry can full of fuel to get somewhere. Solar charging? If your roof survived and the panels didn't get hit by a tree. They do use glass, don't they?
With CNG or LNG, you still may have storage at home in case of emergency that is more secure as it isn't going to be sitting on a roof. Besides, if the sun isn't out in full force, you are going to limp along.
Parking far away doesn't work well in the inner city. You still have to look and look. After all, when there are many more cars than parking spaces it is all about turn over, not location. Electric bicycles can just about park anywhere and not be ticketed.
no one uses LNG as it can evap over time so only Busses can really use it and Eat the loses and CNG is not at 3000 PSI out the gas Co . you neeed what amounts to a 3 stage Scuba tank compressonr to pump it .
LPG can be X filled by some heat to the bulk tank . or by Gravity at a slower rate .
both NGs are useless in a dead grid....
EVs are left plugged in all the time .. unless you came back form one heck of a trip you are gonna have more .25 batt full.
75 Miles per hour of charge....... get 2 H warning . more then enough miles to get our of dodge ..
half of it is that people are not prepared ! this sounds rude but its Very True .... no more Kid gloves people . forgo the Ipad .. buy a genset and mantain it ! ... your Life depends on it .....
Sandy was a Sad tragedy for all people who were involved . I just hope for Xmas a 800 W 120USD genset is under more trees this Year ..
you Dont need much juice to run a blower for a furnace ...
Yeah, I suppose the pumps at a fuel station would be down in a dead grid. So it is diesel and gasoline.
You live in Oregon. Do you want to move around wet and muddy power cords everyday?
EV need an automated docking in the floor of your garage and on the undercarriage of the vehicle or a 'skyhook' of some sort above the car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1772
Before that was the hughes paddle . a inductive charger !
It was tested underwater ..
prooane is a Ideal gas . its a Liquid you can store a Ton! . the tanks are sealed and not insulated like a thermos is for LNG .
No evap . under 300 PSI vapor pressure . can be trans filled by gravity ! faster if some Heat us applyed to to the master tank.
and its easy to get and distribute .
works on fork trucks for decades ...
baby steps . LPG then in 20 Years CNG then H2. too many people are going for the holy grail of H2 ..... Like in the monty python film . there are too many road blocks to really use H2 " now"
most of them are US .. People .. we dont want to change .
http://www.peterthethinker.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26&sid=d491c50101956535f1d352b03d2370ad
A generator should cover your electrical necessities. I spent seven years in Guam where Typhoons and extended power outages were common. We even lost power for about a week due to a snake once. While I didn't have an EV, if I did, I would have just used the generator to charge it.
Speaking of the paddle - anyone know how to make a diy version of a 100 to 200 Watt inductive charger? My Googling has been unsuccessful so far.
This sheep-eating snake lost power once & for all in an electric fence.
The lack of insulators leads me to believe that that is not an electric fence.
Okay, the fence that the snake is biting isn't the electrified one. You can see the electrified fence (and it's insulators) in the other photo on Snopes.
Personally, of the cars I've seen so far, I like the Volt the most. The hybrid cars are very complex, and don't really have a lot of EV range. Mostly gas with some light EV assist, or a short trip on some models can be done all EV. To me, that doesn't seem like the kind of return that would work in my case.
A Volt is actually an electric car, with a gas assist, and that's an important distinction. If driving needs fit the target use case, you've got an electric car, with some options to get there, even when there is "out of range."
I would totally drive an EV. Right now, I drive a really old Corolla that gets 40MPG on most of my driving use cases, and it's long past paid for. Got it for a song 200+K miles ago... But it's a gas car, and it's an old gas car, and well, it's an old car. After seeing the Volt, I decided to not ever buy a new gas car again. That means I might not ever buy a new car again, but it also means I just might spring for a real EV with range / combustion assist of some kind.
What I want to do now is somehow rent or evaluate one for a week or so to really explore the differences. The electric car is on that "cool list of things I want" and so it's very attractive on that basis. Not sure about the net gains for the planet...
you are in luck ! a senior here at Oregon tech is doing ( with some insight from me ) a wireless Ipod charging mat .)
BUT its totaly scaleable ! . what kind of Vout ?
Guam Eh I know a man who sells genset there " USSI " is the firms name. This is why I LOVE the volt ! ..
the prius is a over sized starter motor on a normal car in comparason to the volt ! .
40 Miles is TONS of day to day range ! .
peter
So you envision an EV, a generator, and gasoline storage..................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_heater
I guess an electric car can have a kerosene heater installed as an add on. They have plenty of extra space and I have always thought that automobiles could use a lot more insulation. But air conditioning is a whole separate issue.
Electric cars may be great in San Francisco where one can do without heater or A/C, but in Los Angles or Houston or New Orleans - people won't transition to a car without A/C without a fight.
Maybe all those battery cells under the floorboards of the Telsa will emit heat upward ;0)
John Abshier
However, if gas goes up to $4.50 or $5.00 or higher it might start to be worth it to me. But there is no way there is an EV in my future - just wouldn't work with what is currently available.
This is where I think there is a business opportunity, something like rental vehicles, but more like a co-op or something. You buy in for a certain amount of days per year and "share" a larger vehicle within a group.
that we you own a car for say 90% of your normal use, then use the "group" car for longer trips, hauling things etc.
Currently the majority of people buy a very large, heavy, inefficient vehicle because they have a need for it's capacity on rare occasions.
I'd love to have a nice truck, but I drive a VW Jetta instead because it covers 98% of my needs, I just rent a truck on the rare occasion that I need to move something.
C.W.
Unique and quite aerodynamic! http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ctd/3375757727.html
Replace the 328cc motor with some batteries and an electric motor.
That thing was so cool, if there was any barrier closing the road you could just duck your head and drive under it:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Cars
Or what about an electric Bond Bug?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_Bug
I'd even be happy with an electric tuk-tuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzxLw-IV3gQ
Use your imagination, when it comes to being efficient the auto industry has only just scratched the surface.
Actually, there are already some co-op systems in place, mostly in larger cities.
Also, if you only need a SUV a few times/year, it may be cheaper to just rent one when you need it.
Transporting a family and luiggage on a trip?
Rooftop box or a small trailer may give you enough carrying capacity in a smaller vehicle.
Edit: Tuk Tuks are cool no matter what they run on.
(I have heard rumours that there are some converted to LPG in Bangkok, but have never seen them)
And the Bond Bug is beautiful.
Stretch it a bit, lower it and drop in an electric motor and batteries and you'd end up with something even the Jetsons would envy you.
One could own an EV and rent another car for road trips. But with Missouri in record heat this summer, I don't see how one would survive without a/c. There are swamp cooler if the humidity is low, but they just don't work well in many locations.
Of course, electric bicycles and electric motor scooters provide very good cooling - just drive faster.
Air conditioning, is it really so that you cannot function in the states without A/C? I'm sure much of the worlds population lives in similar temperatures without.
Becomming efficient is more than just optimizing the vehicle, perhaps whole life styles need to change.
Over here in Scandinavia the whole place shuts down for July so people can go to the countryside and enjoy something of the short summer. Perhaps the something similar could be done in Houston, a chance to run away from the heat.
If you ever experience a Stanley Steamer blowing its pressure relief valves, you wouldn't say that. There is a big enough cloud of steam to take the starch out of everything within 20 meters and ruin all the ladies hair and makeup. Suddenly everyone has wrinkled clothing.