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Bragging Rights!!! The Wire Bending CNC and the Patent Application - Page 3 — Parallax Forums

Bragging Rights!!! The Wire Bending CNC and the Patent Application

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  • MicksterMickster Posts: 1,892
    edited 2012-01-19 09:07
    idbruce wrote: »
    @Mickster

    Instead of showing an unsuccessful attempt to get a patent, perhaps, a successful patent grant might give you a little credability for your claims.

    No problem with credibility here:

    Mickster
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-01-19 09:13
    Well there you have it folks, credentials and all.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-01-20 14:38
    I apologize folks but I could not help myself.

    Getting a patent is now easier than ever!
    465 x 601 - 57K
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-01-28 05:47
    Just three more days and I should have a new patent :) Countdown 1, 2, 3.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 13:31
    Just in case anyone is interested, my patent issued yesterday :) Patent No. 8,104,743

    Pertaining to infringement and big companies stealing your idea, here is an article that talks about a $56,000,000 judgement against Ford Motor Company, http://www.patentcafe.com/index.asp?body=company&page=weeklypatent&articleid=26345

    According to the patent, he was an independent inventor without an attorney.
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,336
    edited 2012-02-01 13:58
    The sad part is, that according to the article, he sued 14 years ago, has since passed away, and the suit is in appeal. His heirs might get some money out of this if they win the appeal, and the lawyers don't end up with it all.

    BTW, congrats on the new patent.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 14:56
    @Dave Hein

    Yes, that is the sad part. However, if the original ruling does prevail, I am sure his hiers will be fairly well off, providing he included them in his will :)
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-02-01 16:39
    Unfortunate choice of patent-win stories for the little guy, because actually Ford won on appeal, and further the patent was invalidated. His heirs get nothing, and can never get anything, as the patent (or at least the contested claims) basically no longer exists. Score to Goliath on this one, I'm afraid.

    Congrats on your patent, of course! It's a fine achievement.

    -- Gordon
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 17:10
    @GordonMcComb

    It took a little investigating, but you are correct, Ford did win that case. The web site that I linked to and visited was quite misleading. Sorry about the poor information on my part. The final analysis can be found here, which was determined on 01/27/2012, http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In FCO 20120127232.xml&docbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR

    Well thank you Gordon, and congratulations to you on your new book. I wish you a lot of success with it.

    Bruce
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 17:16
    Actually it is not a complete loser. I just noticed "REVERSED-IN-PART, VACATED-IN-PART, AND REMANDED".
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 17:19
    And the remanded part means that it is not completely resolved.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-02-01 17:26
    idbruce wrote: »
    Actually it is not a complete loser. I just noticed "REVERSED-IN-PART, VACATED-IN-PART, AND REMANDED".

    Haha! But that's because the court only had to decide on one aspect, and then the rest of the case was made moot. The part they decided was that the critical claim in the patent was invalid. Without that there was no further case to hear.

    "Remanded" of course means the appeals court has given instructions to the lower court to reverse their judgement, and declare Ford the winner. It doesn't get much more terminal than that, I'm afraid. Even the Black Knight would accept defeat here!

    I haven't seen the patent in question, but if it's "claim 2" that's been found invalid, odds are much of the rest of the claims that were based on claim 2 are also now invalid, which could be a substantial part of the patent. That leaves claim 1, I'm guessing, but that's something of a hollow victory for the inventor and his family, as the patent is now expired anyway.

    He should have sold the patent to a troll back in the late 80s, much as I dislike "patent enforcement" companies. It's one way inventors can hope to win against the big guns.

    -- Gordon
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-02-01 17:38
    idbruce wrote: »
    And the remanded part means that it is not completely resolved.

    No, it's resolved. The court of appeals has given explicit instructions to the lower court to "remand for entry of judgment of non-liability for Ford." Upon receiving the case back into its jurisdiction, the district court will then revise its judgement in compliance with the higher court, basically "rewrite" the ruling in favor of Ford -- this based on the technical errors of law that the appeals court discovered. The higher court has clearly not remanded the case for retrial or a further hearing of evidence.

    -- Gordon
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 19:19
    Gordon

    You actually took the time to read that? You must have found it interesting. Well I am sorry to hear that the big guns won the complete battle.

    Bruce
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2012-02-01 19:42
    Bruce, Really just skimmed it, but I have practice at it and I usually know which parts are important and which aren't! The whole middle part isn't important!! :lol:

    Just read the end of the first paragraph, which summarizes the decision, where apparently there was prior art (by someone named DuBois -- you get that by reading the last page footnotes) that caused the relevant patent claim to be invalidated because of prior art. That's the worst possible outcome in any patent litigation, but that's the gamemanship of patent litigation. Under the uber-intense scrutiny of litigation, many patents can be invalidated, at least partially.

    Winning a patent litigation suit against a major corporation is about as rare as being hit on the head by a meteorite. Taking a patent to court is in itself not common. Almost always they're settled, which is cheaper for everyone, and unlike a court case, the terms of the settlement can be made private.

    If someone infringes on your '743 do consider licensing or selling it to a patent holder. You'll live longer!

    As you now have experience writing and filing patents, you might look into the "business" of setting up a portfolio with the intent to sell or license it. I know of several who amass and sell their patents in blocks, carefully timing the sale to avoid the maintenance fees. I assume you filed as a small entity.

    -- Gordon
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-01 20:41
    Gordon
    Just read the end of the first paragraph, which summarizes the decision, where apparently there was prior art (by someone named DuBois -- you get that by reading the last page footnotes) that caused the relevant patent claim to be invalidated because of prior art.

    That is the way I understood it on the first glance, but then I saw that statement REVERSED-IN-PART, VACATED-IN-PART, AND REMANDED which made me think it was not completely over and a complete loss.
    If someone infringes on your '743 do consider licensing or selling it to a patent holder.

    Actually I have decided to sell and pursue other interests. I am sure you understand, more machines to build and I need a machine shop. It took me a long time to come to this decision, but my finances are hurting and I don't have much choice. I think it will be a big mistake in the long run, but as they say you gotta do what you gotta do.

    Yea, I filed both under small entity.

    Thanks for your input and the conversation.

    Bruce
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2012-02-02 13:28
    Congratulations!
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-02 13:44
    @Invent-O-Doc

    Thanks Doc. Long time no see. Where have you been?

    Bruce
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 1,892
    edited 2012-02-03 13:08
    You see folks? Invent some contraption that you will never do anything with and get a patent on it...gives you "Bragging Rights"...Woohoo!

    Mickster
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-03 15:19
    Mickster

    Yes it does. As I can clearly see that you were incapable of writing and getting your own patent without an attorney.

    Bruce
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-03 15:21
    Mickster

    In fact, the one that you gave as a previous example, it was abandoned. Was it too hard for your intelligence to handle?

    Bruce
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 1,892
    edited 2012-02-04 02:39
    Well I can't believe I'm even entertaining such an infantile response but the fact is, as most who have had their patents infringed upon will confirm, patents are a waste of time/money/energy!

    If the objective is to have a piece of paper with which to impress one's friends, family, etc., well that's a different matter.

    There are endless opportunities out there and once you identify an opportunity you should jump on it and capitalize on it then move on to the next. Time wasted on patents would be better invested in sourcing venture capital, if needed.

    Mickster.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-04 04:56
    Mickster

    Please do not insult me or my intelligence, and not expect to get an insult in return. It appears that you are clearly on a mission to antagonize me, because you keep returning to my posts with negative input. I am proud of my patents and I am proud of the machines I have built. As far as impressing people goes, I have plenty of admirers that are amazed at some of the things I have done and the things that I can do, because I am a determined man. Additionally, major companies will not even discuss an idea with you unless you hold a PATENT and sign a non-disclosure agreement. Are patents worthless? I don't think so. I think you had some bad experiences pertaining to infringement and wasted alot of money trying to enforce your rights. And I feel sorry for your situation, but that does not mean that someone should not obtain a patent just because Mickster had some bad experiences.

    If I share my success with the friends and folks here at the Parallax forums, why do you want to come along and bust my bubble, and tell me it is all an exercise in futility? I would hopefully imagine that you should have better things to do. If not, then I feel sorry for you, and believe that you need to seek some help for this problem or please allow me to attempt to do it for you.

    ATTENTION FORUM MODERATORS: Please make him go away. :)

    Bruce
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,312
    edited 2012-02-05 08:15
    Congratulations! You got a lot further along than I did. Now do the second part, get rich!
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-05 08:21
    Thanks prof_braino

    I intend to try the get rich part. We will see how it goes.

    Bruce
  • softconsoftcon Posts: 215
    edited 2012-02-07 14:33
    The only experience I have with patents is my attempt to patent something I thought was unique. I submitted it to a patent company, and heard nothing from them for more than a year, whereupon I approached a different patent company, who did contact me almost immediately. However, in my attempts to get something drawn up (not being able to see was a major barrier in that regard) I discovered someone else was already selling the item I'd tried to patent. I can't tell when it started being offered for sale, but there definitely wasn't any trace of said item when I'd contacted the first company (at least none I could find, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there, just that I missed it if it was)
    So, the second patent company has now stopped contacting me with any info at all. Guess they found out something I didn't. <sigh>
    That's ok, I don't really care, I'm just glad the thing already exists. One of these days, I'll go buy one. :)
    What was this idea you ask?
    A dog collar with a built-in leash, so you don't have to go hunting all over kingdom come when your dog gets loose to try to find the darned thing which seems tohave slipped under the couch while you weren't looking (which is something I do a lot).
    Ah well, it's still a nice idea, and I now want one of those super collars.
    heh.
    So, congratulations on your patent, and hope you have many more.
    It's always a nice achievement to do something like that, even if nobody else thinks so.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-02-07 15:23
    @softcon

    Well thank you very much for your congratulations softcon. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to leave a message. However it is people like you that are an inspiration to me, such as people with a handicap that overcome adversity to go on and do great things. Learning to program is a difficult achievement all by itself, but learning how to program with the handicap of being blind, now that is what I truly call an achievement.

    Since you already have the inventing spirit and the desire to create new things, I encourage you to investigate the the patenting process a little more. Throughtout the years, I have always found patents very interesting, and by being able to read and understand patent applications, you always get first hand knowledge of products that may reach the marketplace in the near future.

    Best of luck to you softcon.

    Bruce
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,173
    edited 2012-09-04 07:44
    UPDATE:

    For those that may be interested, there is a major meeting occuring today, within a very large corporation, for the sole purpose of discussing my patent. I suppose it is needless to say that I am a nervous wreck. I sincerely hope that all goes well.

    Bruce
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,233
    edited 2012-09-04 07:59
    Mickster,
    Time wasted on patents would be better invested in sourcing venture capital, if needed.

    Nice idea. In the case of some start ups I have worked for the venture capital guys were not interested unless we had an IP portfolio, i.e. patents.

    But I do concur, unless you have a bottomless pit of money available to defend a patent it is not going to do you much good.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,714
    edited 2012-09-04 10:19
    Good luck Bruce.
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