Those landing skids look nice. Can you tell us what they're made from and how they're made? I can't tell from the photos.
Thanks,
-Phil
Yes, Phil. They're 1/4" thick Delrin from the laser cutter. They'll print in a nested fashion so that the bottom of one part is the top of another. Cutting 200+ units will take about 5-6 hours, but nobody has to hang around and watch the machine.
Ah, so. (I keep forgetting that your laser cutter can cut that deep. And only a minute:thirty apiece, too!) Then you have a jig to drill the holes in each end, then, I presume?
+1 for Phils ? The ELEV8 looks great can't wait to give one a spin. Glad you stuck with the round booms. Now I just need to decide on which option. I will probably go with option 3 that would get it in the air the fastest. Again great job, I knew you guys would make a great craft.
Should we expect the HoverFly Open to be less expensive?
The option 3 price is quite nice.
Hey Rich - not sure yet, but I hope so. I'll do everything I can to keep the costs low on this project. You don't need to be too concerned anyway since I'm trading you a quadcopter kit for the joysticks you provided.
Been lurking with interest for a while, here. I'm in for option3, too. And a crash package. Christmas timing is perfect.
Any idea on what's the lead time for ordering the transmitter/receiver package, assuming I'd go with what's listed in the BOM on page 1? Do I need to order it now to get it in by December?
Been lurking with interest for a while, here. I'm in for option3, too. And a crash package. Christmas timing is perfect.
Any idea on what's the lead time for ordering the transmitter/receiver package, assuming I'd go with what's listed in the BOM on page 1? Do I need to order it now to get it in by December?
@BR
I'm sure none of the options come with a Radio/Receiver setup. These can be sourced by many Hobby companies in the US.
Just do a search for 2.4 GHz R/C, and you will get Spektrum, Futaba Hitec. They will all work. Just get the receiver from the same company.
I believe 5 channel is the minimum, but I would get a 6-7 channel so you could implement future enhancements like GPS enabling and altitude hold.
A tad bit more expensive, but in stock, and I know these guys well, they buy container lots. US shipping.
Unfortunately, they are out of the ESC's (25 AMP) for the motor, just like Hobbytking is.
Don't you just wish you could get every thing in one place, with one order?
I bet the guys in China could walk down to one of the shops and get enough parts for the initial order. Although you would have to test them on the platform.
Thanks for the update Ken. Those skids looked extremely impressive on the webinar video!
So far I have my own quad frame made from 1"sq black aluminium tube with a plastic "+" joiner which I purchased at the same time. This design allows the 4 motor bolts to be assembled directly to the boom. I made my booms longer than the motors (because I am unsure of the optimum mounting position of the motor). This provides some protection for the propellers. My skids are just pieces of pool vacuum cleaner hose and are not really satisfactory. I am going to try some plastic balls next
I know Ken doesn't mind me posting this here, so...
I am waiting on the return of a new single pcb version of my 2 stacked pcbs (one is my standard prop board and the other is an expander for the RC channels and servo Esc connectors and is a t/hole design). The new single pcb has a few tricks to keep the costs down. It can handle 16 servo I/O channels, usually 6 for the RC (I am only using 4 ATM), and 3/4/6/8 for Esc/Motor control (TriCopter, QuadCopter, HexaCopter and OctaCopter). The real cost for me for low volume is surprisingly the pcb cost.
I decided some time ago to make the sensors on a separate pcb (also on the drawing board for later) because of the QFN chips. The Wii MP gyro and Nunchuck accelerometer can also be used.
I have another (esc) board in design to reduce the costs even further - this will replace the escs and will stack with the existing board(s). It makes the cabling much simpler too. But be prepared to wait for this as I do not see it happening before 2012.
BTW: The Parallax Propeller P8X32A chip is so much more suited to the QuadCopters than the "other" chips so commonly used. It is so much easier to have code in separate cogs to handle the sensors, read the Radio channels, output to the Escs/Motors, and do the all the calculations. Add to this camera control, flashing leds, sound, and storing flight data. All these are a breeze when you do not have to worry about interrupts. Each section of code can be tested separately, and you know it will just work in the end.
Wow, those motors don't even look all that big and the batteries being used are the large RC Li-ion!
They look to be just about the same size as a human hand, which would put their power at about the 50 to 100cc motor range. I actually spec'd out this as an idea not long ago after seeing these:
Those are 100cc equivalent, and produce approximately 40lb of thrust. That means 4 of them could just lift me (but nothing else). 6 of them @ 5.5lb each = 33lb + me = ~200lb. Add batteries, and you're still just under the 240lb of thrust they produce. 8 of them should be enough to lift themselves, batteries, props, wires, a light carbon frame, and me, with room to spare. At $300 a pop (plus probably the same each for batteries) you're looking at $5000 just for those components, plus 8 motor controllers, and a very expensive kevlar suit before I'd even think of getting on the thing. :-)
Hey Jason, have you researched any motors/ESCs/propellers for much larger quadcopters, say in the 3-4' span with 15-18" propellers? Since I'm getting into FPV at this point I'd like to build a larger, more stable craft.
I haven't started to research all the components yet, however.
(1) When quads are built with large spans, do they start moving towards gas or fuel?
(2) Is there a point where the power to weight ratio becomes an issue for either engines or motors?
(3) If they stay with motors, do they use motors with more magnets and greater electrical rotation ratios?
or keep the standard 12/14 arrangement.
(4) I am guessing Ken doesn't fly little r/c air planes, does large motors revert back to a star winding to provide good torque around 5000 rpm.
Well don't feel bad, it happens to everyone. At least it was not a mysterious electrical or mechanical problem. My only piece of advice, never quit flying it. Meaning, keep trying to recover all the way to the ground.
Seeing this crashes I want to know if you have something to protect the propellers (and people around) for the first test flights.
Perhaps something to put at the end of the booms ?
Jean Paul
Hey Jean Paul - this design doesn't have any protection around the propellers, but the motor mounts have protected the motors very nicely. Since we have a number of intentional and accidental crashes in our experience we've got a great feeling for the weak points in this design. I feel very confident about crash worthiness and the points of failure in this design at this stage. For example, the motor mounts take the shock before the motors are damaged. The booms simply don't bend (except for one crash on pavement at very high speed, knife-edge out of the sky). And the landing gear slides and skids without breaking.
But back to your point. I think the motor mounts provide some protection for the propellers. But you could certainly improve this significantly by a modification that extends the motor mount out to the edge of the propeller's area of movement.
Safest way to fly these is at a park, not during a soccer game.
Yes, I was waiting for the mid-air crash too. Was there much damage Ken?
Hey Cluso99, yes the damage on this crash was significant. While the body, electronics, chassis and booms were unaffected we actually destroyed two motors and a couple propellers. Again, we shouldn't have been flying high over pavement, sideways with a camera.
Have a new photo to share with you - airborne in the Sierra Nevada mountains!
Also, HobbyKing has motors in stock again so we've got clearance to build up some kits finally! Whether you're looking for something to do when the relatives arrive for the holidays or you're simply inspired to start learning about quadcopters, I'm 100% confident these will be sent out to you by mid-December. Thanks for your patience, too.
Rich, yes. The round tubes are very light, plenty strong, and favored among our internal team (and more importantly, hopefully the community). I admit we're bucking the trend in this regard and hope that it works out. Usually the only round tubes I've seen are carbon fiber. We could use your photography skills at some point on this project BTW [hint hint]. I know what you're thinking "get me a kit and you've got a deal!".
Comments
Those landing skids look nice. Can you tell us what they're made from and how they're made? I can't tell from the photos.
Thanks,
-Phil
Yes, Phil. They're 1/4" thick Delrin from the laser cutter. They'll print in a nested fashion so that the bottom of one part is the top of another. Cutting 200+ units will take about 5-6 hours, but nobody has to hang around and watch the machine.
-Phil
Should we expect the HoverFly Open to be less expensive?
The option 3 price is quite nice.*
* I see that it has changed - still nice though.
+1 for Phils ? The ELEV8 looks great can't wait to give one a spin. Glad you stuck with the round booms. Now I just need to decide on which option. I will probably go with option 3 that would get it in the air the fastest. Again great job, I knew you guys would make a great craft.
-Ron
Hey Rich - not sure yet, but I hope so. I'll do everything I can to keep the costs low on this project. You don't need to be too concerned anyway since I'm trading you a quadcopter kit for the joysticks you provided.
nice ELEV8 flights on the webinar. The Propeller is really the perfect controller for rc drones.
Will go with option 3 , so as to start quickly and have the same quad as others on this forum , making info exchange easier.
Hope to fly before Christmas !
Jean Paul
Any idea on what's the lead time for ordering the transmitter/receiver package, assuming I'd go with what's listed in the BOM on page 1? Do I need to order it now to get it in by December?
@BR
I'm sure none of the options come with a Radio/Receiver setup. These can be sourced by many Hobby companies in the US.
Just do a search for 2.4 GHz R/C, and you will get Spektrum, Futaba Hitec. They will all work. Just get the receiver from the same company.
I believe 5 channel is the minimum, but I would get a 6-7 channel so you could implement future enhancements like GPS enabling and altitude hold.
I was doing a search for replacement motors that where actually in stock, and I came across these from my old Hobby Shop when I lived in Nashville:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/450_size_brushless_outrunner_850kv_1033021_prd1.htm
A tad bit more expensive, but in stock, and I know these guys well, they buy container lots. US shipping.
Unfortunately, they are out of the ESC's (25 AMP) for the motor, just like Hobbytking is.
Don't you just wish you could get every thing in one place, with one order?
I bet the guys in China could walk down to one of the shops and get enough parts for the initial order. Although you would have to test them on the platform.
Jim
So far I have my own quad frame made from 1"sq black aluminium tube with a plastic "+" joiner which I purchased at the same time. This design allows the 4 motor bolts to be assembled directly to the boom. I made my booms longer than the motors (because I am unsure of the optimum mounting position of the motor). This provides some protection for the propellers. My skids are just pieces of pool vacuum cleaner hose and are not really satisfactory. I am going to try some plastic balls next
I know Ken doesn't mind me posting this here, so...
I am waiting on the return of a new single pcb version of my 2 stacked pcbs (one is my standard prop board and the other is an expander for the RC channels and servo Esc connectors and is a t/hole design). The new single pcb has a few tricks to keep the costs down. It can handle 16 servo I/O channels, usually 6 for the RC (I am only using 4 ATM), and 3/4/6/8 for Esc/Motor control (TriCopter, QuadCopter, HexaCopter and OctaCopter). The real cost for me for low volume is surprisingly the pcb cost.
I decided some time ago to make the sensors on a separate pcb (also on the drawing board for later) because of the QFN chips. The Wii MP gyro and Nunchuck accelerometer can also be used.
I have another (esc) board in design to reduce the costs even further - this will replace the escs and will stack with the existing board(s). It makes the cabling much simpler too. But be prepared to wait for this as I do not see it happening before 2012.
BTW: The Parallax Propeller P8X32A chip is so much more suited to the QuadCopters than the "other" chips so commonly used. It is so much easier to have code in separate cogs to handle the sensors, read the Radio channels, output to the Escs/Motors, and do the all the calculations. Add to this camera control, flashing leds, sound, and storing flight data. All these are a breeze when you do not have to worry about interrupts. Each section of code can be tested separately, and you know it will just work in the end.
Wow, those motors don't even look all that big and the batteries being used are the large RC Li-ion!
They look to be just about the same size as a human hand, which would put their power at about the 50 to 100cc motor range. I actually spec'd out this as an idea not long ago after seeing these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14427__Turnigy_CA120_70_Brushless_Outrunner_100cc_eq_.html
Those are 100cc equivalent, and produce approximately 40lb of thrust. That means 4 of them could just lift me (but nothing else). 6 of them @ 5.5lb each = 33lb + me = ~200lb. Add batteries, and you're still just under the 240lb of thrust they produce. 8 of them should be enough to lift themselves, batteries, props, wires, a light carbon frame, and me, with room to spare. At $300 a pop (plus probably the same each for batteries) you're looking at $5000 just for those components, plus 8 motor controllers, and a very expensive kevlar suit before I'd even think of getting on the thing. :-)
Jason
I haven't started to research all the components yet, however.
Ken Gracey
http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.htm
(1) When quads are built with large spans, do they start moving towards gas or fuel?
(2) Is there a point where the power to weight ratio becomes an issue for either engines or motors?
(3) If they stay with motors, do they use motors with more magnets and greater electrical rotation ratios?
or keep the standard 12/14 arrangement.
(4) I am guessing Ken doesn't fly little r/c air planes, does large motors revert back to a star winding to provide good torque around 5000 rpm.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. "
~ Sir Winston Churchill
Uh, by that measure it was a worthwhile crash considering I'm ready to fly again!
Perhaps something to put at the end of the booms ?
Jean Paul
Hey Jean Paul - this design doesn't have any protection around the propellers, but the motor mounts have protected the motors very nicely. Since we have a number of intentional and accidental crashes in our experience we've got a great feeling for the weak points in this design. I feel very confident about crash worthiness and the points of failure in this design at this stage. For example, the motor mounts take the shock before the motors are damaged. The booms simply don't bend (except for one crash on pavement at very high speed, knife-edge out of the sky). And the landing gear slides and skids without breaking.
But back to your point. I think the motor mounts provide some protection for the propellers. But you could certainly improve this significantly by a modification that extends the motor mount out to the edge of the propeller's area of movement.
Safest way to fly these is at a park, not during a soccer game.
Ken Gracey
Hey Cluso99, yes the damage on this crash was significant. While the body, electronics, chassis and booms were unaffected we actually destroyed two motors and a couple propellers. Again, we shouldn't have been flying high over pavement, sideways with a camera.
Ken Gracey
Also, HobbyKing has motors in stock again so we've got clearance to build up some kits finally! Whether you're looking for something to do when the relatives arrive for the holidays or you're simply inspired to start learning about quadcopters, I'm 100% confident these will be sent out to you by mid-December. Thanks for your patience, too.
Ken Gracey
Have you decided to stay with the round tubes?
Rich, yes. The round tubes are very light, plenty strong, and favored among our internal team (and more importantly, hopefully the community). I admit we're bucking the trend in this regard and hope that it works out. Usually the only round tubes I've seen are carbon fiber. We could use your photography skills at some point on this project BTW [hint hint]. I know what you're thinking "get me a kit and you've got a deal!".
Thanks,
Ken Gracey