Its the difference in pressure between the sea water and the oil-well pressure that I'm talking about. If You have 2000psi of sea water and 3000psi of oil-well pressure than the D.P. is 1000psi
I have no idea of what the real D.P. is but I know its high
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.·
I can't believe that no has brought up the chance to make some money off of this spill. Oil is still going for $70.00 a barrel, Theres a lot of it floating around in the gulf right know.
Some really smart people will make a large profit from this spill. Don't be surprised if BP isn't one of them.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.·
I asked about the value of the differential pressure because to me, after seeing the video, it really does not look to be very high. Not to be argumentative, but what leads you to believe that it is very high?
If you look at the 500 TON inverted funnel BP tried to place over the leak. I think you would see my point.This funnel had a small hose attached to the top about 10" maybe 12" O.D. The restriction from a 20" pipe to a 10 or 12" pipe was to much.It floated the million pound funnel upward an the oil poured out from underneath. Yes concrete has some buoyancy so the funnel doesn't quite weight a million pounds at 5000' BSL but its still pretty heavy.
Do a couple of google searches and You'll find the ice crystal theory for failure was later deemed to be "to much D.P."
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.·
I read that it is 98 tons and it appears to have a base that is larger than 10' x 10'. If we assume that it is only ten by ten and weighs 200,000 lbs, ignoring the buoyancy of the ice crystals and the funnel itself, it would only require 139 psi to lift it.
After some Googling I've learned that there is still a drillhead lodged in the pipe and there is another pipe within the pipe. The pressure at the top of the BOP I'm sure is known to BP but I cannot find anything other than speculations.
Thats why when BP says that they have some of the greatest minds working on this, i just have to laugh. The sad part is, the jokes on the residents, wildlife and ecology. i truly do hope they bring criminal charges against them, the ones that are really responsible and not a 'scapegoat', someone that pushed a button, or didnt open a valve or whatever because they were ordered to push the button or not open a valve·by their superiors.
$WMc% said...
W9GFO
If you look at the 500 TON inverted funnel BP tried to place over the leak. I think you would see my point.This funnel had a small hose attached to the top about 10" maybe 12" O.D. The restriction from a 20" pipe to a 10 or 12" pipe was to much....
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ I'm just 7*1027 atoms floating through time and space in close formation. -KF4IXM
$WMc% said...
You can't just cap off the well, there's to much Diff. Presser. This is what blew out the blow-out preventer.....
I don't think anything "blew out" the blow-out preventer. It is still there. Instead, it simply did not do its job, which is to close off the drill casing and bite through the drill string (if present, which it is) in the event of a blow out.
$WMc% said...
....If we don't drill out there, China will. Do you really think China cares about the environment and will have better safety's?....
No, I don't think Chinese oil business people care anymore about the environment than do British oil business people or American oil business people. But this particular oil well happens to be in US territorial waters, so nobody can legally drill there without permission given by the US government.
$WMc% said...
I think crimping off the pipe would just push the well casing out of the ocean floor. This would make a real mess.
Borehole casing is cemented in place to the surrounding rock. For the pipe in question, this is a procedure performed fairly early on in the drilling process. Granted, crimping shut the well would make a mess of the well head and BP's production schedule, but it would stop the flow of oil, which is what the blow-out preventer was supposed to do.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Watching the world pass me by, one photon at a time.
Post Edited (ElectricAye) : 6/7/2010 12:28:39 AM GMT
They've been trying for the past 4 hours now to get a hydraulic impact wrench on a bolt head. They've finally gotten wise and brought in a wire brush and Duck Tape.
I dunno if this is feasible - here is a sketch of a concept I call "Fork Cap" . . . the illustrations should show the two center guides for the large end plate further out from center -- and -- the large end plate should be installed BEFORE the doors are closed - just an idea - maybe it'll lead to something useful . . . just frustrated beyond words over this debacle . . .
Hey, very nice sketchups! The Fork Cap concept looks great. Why they haven't done that - or so many other ideas - is very baffling. I'm guessing from the perspective of the BP boardroom they have an oil well to save, not a leak to stop.
The fork cap concept looks good to me, and the oil's own pressure would help seal the bottom. looks like Google sketchup (is that wright?) to make the illustrations.
legoman132 said...
looks like Google sketchup (is that wright?) to make the illustrations.
Yes! I love SketchUp!
And I should - after teaching AutoCAD, Inventor, Revit, Pro/E, Microstation, Shark FX, and several others, SketchUp brings joy to 3D modeling all over again. It's very fast - I like that because I have little patience - even smaller attention sp . . . OMG - a waffle . . .
legoman132 said...
Do you think you could post the sketchup file so those of us who are interested could view it there?
Ok - but please don't laugh - it's a sketch, nothing serious - just a fast, concept
Normally, I would have created more realistic components that were articulating (I got lazy and created two versions instead - click on the saved views to see)
I believe the pipe dia = 20" and is 1" thick - this also was just a guess, so the dimensions, proportions, et cetera, aren't likely to be realistic
Maybe the zipped file works . . . let me know if it doesn't and I'll toss the original .skp somewhere w/a link.
Works just fine. been awhile since I used my "sketchuping mouse" (the wireless mouse i use for everything else doesn't support the middle button orbit tool activation thing)
According to news reports, Kevin Costner has a company that spent $20 million developing a centrifuge that can seperate 210,000 gallons of oily water a day and BP has acquired 32 of them which will be fully operational in 60 days if some of them haven't been working / delivered already.
Chuckz said...
According to news reports, Kevin Costner has a company that spent $20 million developing a centrifuge that can seperate 210,000 gallons of oily water a day....
Somebody check my math. I calculated that each machine can separate a volume of water equivalent to a cube 30 feet on each side.
So 32 machines gives you 32 such squeaky clean cubes each and every day.
(The crowd roars...)
We're saved!
Thank Heaven for Kevin!
(Fade to a blinding divine light....)
(Roll credits....)
But I'm still not sure how differential pressure excludes all other possible solutions except to drill down to the oil reservoir. I guess the entire concept of blow-out preventers is somehow fundamentally flawed???
Somebody check my math. I calculated that each machine can separate a volume of water equivalent to a cube 30 feet on each side.
So 32 machines gives you 32 such squeaky clean cubes each and every day.
If I just take your math to be correct then their best option is to put these machines in the worst of the spill because it would take years and years·to clean the miles and miles of contaminated water up.
I seem to remember after the Amoco Cadiz disaster in the 70's that the scientists were talking of a bacteria that consumed oil, not sure if trials were unsuccessful or uneconomical but havn't heard of it since, there were a few oppositions to its use I remember from certain people worried about the bacteria running riot but the scientists assured that once the oil had been totally consumed, that the bacteria would simply die off.
Perhaps they were worried about the bacteria getting into the wells and consuming the oil reserves?
skylight said...
....
Perhaps they were worried about the bacteria getting into the wells and consuming the oil reserves?
Don't laugh. That's probably where the original microbes were isolated from. Believe it or not, there are many species of bacteria that live miles underground.
Don't laugh. That's probably where the original microbes were isolated from. Believe it or not, there are many species of bacteria that live miles underground.
That's a bit worrying seeing as we are pumping up oil from the depths of the earth, perhaps there are bacterium that are yet to be discovered below the crust that could be potentially harmful to humans and animal life on the surface that we may not have a medical solution for?
The problem with the oil-eating bacteria -- even the naturally occurring ones -- is that they process the oil aerobically, which depletes the water of oxygen and creates dead zones where other marine life can't survive.
My understanding is that these original oil-eating bacteria were discovered in oil wells, so the possibility of them depleting oil resources is fairly low. The metabolic rate of these deep-earth organisms is pretty low, where some single-celled organisms can divide every 20 minutes, these things might take 100 years. Efforts were made in the past to genetically modify them into something that could clean up oil spills, but laws preventing the release of these has curtailed this work.
localroger said...
The problem with the oil-eating bacteria -- even the naturally occurring ones -- is that they process the oil aerobically, which depletes the water of oxygen and creates dead zones where other marine life can't survive.
I would think it would be relatively easy to replenish oxygen by some form of strirring mechanism like paddle steamers or just aerators lowered below the surface, the oil is on the surface so wouldn't only the first few inches of seawater have been depleted of oxygen anyway?
If you look at the chemistry and the relatively low density of dissolved oxygen compared to oil, it certainly appears that you would deplete the water of oxygen. On top of that, I don't imagine you're getting anything like the normal production of oxygen by photosynthesis from phytoplankton. If every square a hundred feet on a side requires an aerator, you'd need something like 5 million aerators to handle this. So it's a huge problem.
On the other hand, we've got an underemployed nation, and we're spending a trillion dollars on makework projects to try to stimulate the economy. My preference would be that every stimulus project that has not yet been initiated be canceled and the money shifted to projects dealing with the spill. Is it a real disaster or not?
Comments
Its the difference in pressure between the sea water and the oil-well pressure that I'm talking about. If You have 2000psi of sea water and 3000psi of oil-well pressure than the D.P. is 1000psi
I have no idea of what the real D.P. is but I know its high
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.·
Some really smart people will make a large profit from this spill. Don't be surprised if BP isn't one of them.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.·
Rich H
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
Post Edited (W9GFO) : 6/5/2010 5:30:05 AM GMT
If you look at the 500 TON inverted funnel BP tried to place over the leak. I think you would see my point.This funnel had a small hose attached to the top about 10" maybe 12" O.D. The restriction from a 20" pipe to a 10 or 12" pipe was to much.It floated the million pound funnel upward an the oil poured out from underneath. Yes concrete has some buoyancy so the funnel doesn't quite weight a million pounds at 5000' BSL but its still pretty heavy.
Do a couple of google searches and You'll find the ice crystal theory for failure was later deemed to be "to much D.P."
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.·
After some Googling I've learned that there is still a drillhead lodged in the pipe and there is another pipe within the pipe. The pressure at the top of the BOP I'm sure is known to BP but I cannot find anything other than speculations.
Rich H
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
I'm just 7*1027 atoms floating through time and space in close formation. -KF4IXM
I don't think anything "blew out" the blow-out preventer. It is still there. Instead, it simply did not do its job, which is to close off the drill casing and bite through the drill string (if present, which it is) in the event of a blow out.
No, I don't think Chinese oil business people care anymore about the environment than do British oil business people or American oil business people. But this particular oil well happens to be in US territorial waters, so nobody can legally drill there without permission given by the US government.
Borehole casing is cemented in place to the surrounding rock. For the pipe in question, this is a procedure performed fairly early on in the drilling process. Granted, crimping shut the well would make a mess of the well head and BP's production schedule, but it would stop the flow of oil, which is what the blow-out preventer was supposed to do.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Watching the world pass me by, one photon at a time.
Post Edited (ElectricAye) : 6/7/2010 12:28:39 AM GMT
Hey, very nice sketchups! The Fork Cap concept looks great. Why they haven't done that - or so many other ideas - is very baffling. I'm guessing from the perspective of the BP boardroom they have an oil well to save, not a leak to stop.
BP - Bringing oil to American shores.
They are just doing what they said they would.....
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
=================
The future is in our hands.
Which way to the future?
=================
Yes! I love SketchUp!
And I should - after teaching AutoCAD, Inventor, Revit, Pro/E, Microstation, Shark FX, and several others, SketchUp brings joy to 3D modeling all over again. It's very fast - I like that because I have little patience - even smaller attention sp . . . OMG - a waffle . . .
non-oil scientist that have a remotely similar skill-set.
Solutions could of been tested with a mock-up in one of NASA's training tanks.
Ok - but please don't laugh - it's a sketch, nothing serious - just a fast, concept
Normally, I would have created more realistic components that were articulating (I got lazy and created two versions instead - click on the saved views to see)
I believe the pipe dia = 20" and is 1" thick - this also was just a guess, so the dimensions, proportions, et cetera, aren't likely to be realistic
Maybe the zipped file works . . . let me know if it doesn't and I'll toss the original .skp somewhere w/a link.
I see B.P. put a new cap on the BOP with a rubber gasket. Its still pouring oil out around the seam!
Now do you see what I was saying about the high D.P. (differential pressure)
If China bought a small US oil company, They would be protected by the US Navy to drill in the gulf.
P.S.· US Territorial waters is 12 miles out. After that, Its Your decision on how You want to deal with a US NAVY Battle Fleet
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Truth is out there············___$WMc%___···························· BoogerWoods, FL. USA
want speed?·want·to use the Propeller?·want to stay with BASIC___www.propbasic.com___
You can feel stupid by asking a stupid question or You can be really·stupid by not asking at all.
Post Edited ($WMc%) : 6/21/2010 1:40:29 AM GMT
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE65I06X20100619
Somebody check my math. I calculated that each machine can separate a volume of water equivalent to a cube 30 feet on each side.
So 32 machines gives you 32 such squeaky clean cubes each and every day.
(The crowd roars...)
We're saved!
Thank Heaven for Kevin!
(Fade to a blinding divine light....)
(Roll credits....)
Oh, you're so right. Instead, it's called the US Exclusive Economic Zone. My mistake.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone#United_States
But I'm still not sure how differential pressure excludes all other possible solutions except to drill down to the oil reservoir. I guess the entire concept of blow-out preventers is somehow fundamentally flawed???
Perhaps they were worried about the bacteria getting into the wells and consuming the oil reserves?
Don't laugh. That's probably where the original microbes were isolated from. Believe it or not, there are many species of bacteria that live miles underground.
That's a bit worrying seeing as we are pumping up oil from the depths of the earth, perhaps there are bacterium that are yet to be discovered below the crust that could be potentially harmful to humans and animal life on the surface that we may not have a medical solution for?
On the other hand, we've got an underemployed nation, and we're spending a trillion dollars on makework projects to try to stimulate the economy. My preference would be that every stimulus project that has not yet been initiated be canceled and the money shifted to projects dealing with the spill. Is it a real disaster or not?
www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/opinion/22Brownfield.html?hp