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Sneak Preview - a New Prop Computer

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  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-22 08:26
    Mike Green said...
    Great pictures. A mentor of mine worked at Princeton
    as a graduate assistant in the lab where they had one of the early Williams
    tube memory computers. His job was to sit there watching the bank of tubes
    for a bloom in the phosphor indicating that there was a programming error
    and there were repeated reads going on at a single location. If this happened,
    he had to push the Stop button immediately. Usually this was due to forgetting
    to increment the program counter (controlled by a bit in the instruction). Too
    many successive reads to the same location would burn a hole in the
    phosphor coating and that location would have some "stuck" bits from
    then on. There was a map on the wall showing all such defects so programmers
    could program around them.
    Great recollections, Mike!
    Seen below is a rare photo of the actual computer - IBM's first shipped in 1952
    mass-produced stored program computer, the 701.

    Instead of core memory, the 701 used Williams CRT memory. At the top
    right in the back, you can see the Type 706 Williams Tube Memory unit
    with 72 circular tubes!

    You can probably imagine your mentor sitting there at the Princeton Lab,
    watching the tubes for blooming.

    humanoido

    701.JPG
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-22 08:34
    simon said...
    Time to get off the mushrooms humandoido - LOL
    Just to set the record straight on the topic of smoking, I absolutely
    do not smoke. As you know, Peter Jakacki has the monopoly on
    mushroom smoking, as evidenced by the long mushrooming pipe
    he hand crafted for that exact purpose. However... it is a little known secret
    that on occasion most people in this interest area have indeed smoked
    a board or two!

    humanoido
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-22 09:23
    This is a photo of the IBM 360 computer programmed some years ago
    using a TSR and a punch card machine. My computer program was so lengthy,
    I had to carry the punched-card program around in a large shoebox.
    The computer lab knew me well, it had something to do with running this program
    because it printed resolution graphics, something relatively unusual at that time.
    The code worked well in FORTRAN IV and led to the discovery of new math formulae,
    a better climatology prediction system, optical glass light transmissive ray tracings,
    and cometary orbital derivatives. Surprisingly, there was a lot that could be achieved
    with these retro computers. If you worked on a very retro computer, let's hear
    about it!

    humanoido

    36091CART.JPG

    Post Edited (humanoido) : 1/22/2010 9:31:16 AM GMT
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-22 09:50
    image002.jpg

    Bonus project photos - the "retro" propeller chip seen here has eight completed
    cogs, built from retro parts. Each cog is represented by one rack. Rack eight is
    just outside the photo.

    I really dislike tearing down any project, so as Ken Gracey recommends, we will save
    each project and set it on the shelf when finished. We're either going to need lower
    shelves or higher garage ceilings in the future.

    image006.jpg
    In the end, it was not possible to ship the project to Parallax with the Toyota Runabout.
    The sun-roof caved in during the mounting process so the computer was returned
    to the garage.

    Therefore, the Parallax team flew in to inspect the completed Propeller Cogs.
    The three important dudes and dudette - Chip Gracey, Ken Gracey, and Jessica Uelmen
    are wearing white lab coats because this is a clean sterile room (the same that NASA
    has for constructing spacecraft). The other two in street clothes are Whit and Chris Savage
    who did not follow proper clean-room procedures.

    Above everyone's heads are the cables that connect together all the cogs. There's
    enough wire run through snorkel tubes to lead from here to the Moon and back again.
    Chris Savage said he could hang a lot of clothes wash out on that to dry if he could
    find enough clothes pins.

    Whit, second from the left, was heard saying, "The only hub 512 K Bites I can find are
    near my lunch sack." Chris Savage was vociferously taking notes leading to the verge
    of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in his... tongue.

    image004.jpg
    Seen above, Chip and Ken are drawing up the final "Tongue in Cheek" award.

    SqContests.jpg
    And here is the actual award.

    article-0-01ADC21B00000578-335_468x179_popup.jpg
    And here is one last look at the retro Propeller chip built from retro parts (showing all eight retro cogs).

    humanoido

    Post Edited (humanoido) : 1/22/2010 12:01:39 PM GMT
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2010-01-22 11:52
    In 1976 I watched them unload a new ICL 2960 from the trucks that delivered it to the University of Kent at Canterbury.
    Lots of spectacularly huge bright orange cabinets.
    Us students got to run our Algol programs from punched cards on that.
    I was always being reprimanded for making heavy use of the pen plotter.

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
    1108 x 1233 - 602K
    445 x 199 - 56K
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-22 12:29
    heater said...
    In 1976 I watched them unload a new ICL 2960
    from the trucks that delivered it to the University of Kent at Canterbury.
    Lots of spectacularly huge bright orange cabinets. Us students got to run
    our Algol programs from punched cards on that. I was always being
    reprimanded for making heavy use of the pen plotter.
    heater, that's so cool! I noticed a sample punched card that you posted.
    It looks familiar to the punched cards I used. Attached is a pic showing
    three punched cards from one of my progression/regression programs
    that was actually run on the IBM 360/50.

    The top is a write formatting command card, middle is a numerical floating
    point format, and the bottom is a regressional call involving X, Y, SIGMAY,
    NPTS, NTERMS, M, MODE, YFIT, A0, A, AND SIGMA0 parameters. The
    language is FORTRAN IV.

    For many years, these cards were used in my Parallax book as important
    book marks, and so they survived and go wherever my books travel.

    humanoido

    attachment.php?attachmentid=66994
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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-01-22 12:37
    When I joined English Electric, Kidsgrove, in 1961 as a student apprentice, they still had an operational DEUCE computer:

    users.tpg.com.au/eedeuce/

    This must have been the actual machine:

    www.members.optusnet.com.au/deucepix/deucemk1.jpg

    The mercury delay lines sprouted from the floor and looked like very large grey mushrooms.
    I seriously considered sitting on one as a joke and getting someone to take a photograph.

    I remember some of the names of the people who were involved with it, and actually worked with one of them on the
    new LEO III computer after English Electric took LEO over. I designed the audible monitor circuit for it which allowed
    an engineer to listen to the CPU activity.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

    Post Edited (Leon) : 1/22/2010 12:48:23 PM GMT
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-01-22 13:05
    Gee, I had some of ICL's (hideous) orange cabinet computers (the System Ten and Sytem 25 mini's) and the Singer System Ten (predecessor).
    My fully operational Singer System Ten was 1975 vintage bought in 1977 and installed in my garage (airconditioned and all - and it was the length of my garage!).
    110KB core memory and 3 x 10MB disk drives.
    It was still fully operational and used until the end of 1999. Now if only I could find the photos.

    My wife taught ICL 1900 operators and my mate was Australia's hardware specialist for the 2960's.

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
    · Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
  • Mike_GTNMike_GTN Posts: 106
    edited 2010-01-22 13:21
    Humanoido,

    Have you designed A Valve (or bottle) tester using the Propeller Chip?

    Here is some real retro computing from 1969 http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tomorrowsworld/8008.shtml

    Love the commentary on the clip... Control we have a problem.

    Mike.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-23 05:20
    Mike_GTN said...
    Humanoido, Have you designed A Valve (or bottle) tester
    using the Propeller Chip? Here is some real retro computing from 1969
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tomorrowsworld/8008.shtml
    Love the commentary on the clip... Control we have a problem. Mike.
    Mike- the web site is very interesting! No, I did not build a tube tester using
    a prop chip. Sounds like a good project if you have lots of tubes that need
    testing. At one time, all my ham radio projects used tubes, and I had a
    small tube tester. At that time, you could buy a good one from Lafeyette
    Electronics which is where I purchased most of what I needed for hobby
    electronics.

    humanoido
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-01-23 07:35
    When I was a kid, nearly every drugstore in town had a tube tester. These things had a zillion sockets on top, one or two clips for plate caps of various sizes, a couple rotary switches for configuration, a panel meter with good/bad zones, and a flip chart that showed the correct settings for the different part numbers. I don't think they actually measured gain, just basic cathode-to-plate conduction. That's all that was really necessary, though, as most tube problems were from burnt-out filaments. But, being just a kid, I felt like a real hot-shot when I could haul a load of tubes to the store, isolate the bad one, and fix the family's TV by replacing it.

    -Phil
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2010-01-23 07:54
    Strangely enough that ICL 2960 mainframe at Kent University, which must have cost some millions, was housed in a building that collapsed.
    See picture. The collapse was due to an old railway tunnel running underneath itself starting collapsing. The tunnel was later filled up with concrete.

    Now that was a shame as it was a tunnel for the first passenger railway in the world that used to have Stevenson's Rocket II running on it.

    I walked through that tunnel as a teenager, very dark an scary. In my mind the tunnel should have been preserved.

    www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=14721

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
    1422 x 868 - 237K
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2010-01-23 09:28
    Heater

    It was the Trogladites evolving into Ludites.

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    Style and grace : Nil point
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-23 15:04
    Great ending Phil! Now you have me laughing and smiling. lol.gifsmile.gif

    humanoido
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-27 14:31
    Gadgetman said...
    BTW: Do NOT use the label 'MC Computer' unless it can top my
    1989 vintage MC400 laptop.
    The Psion Mobile Computer MC 400 is no longer manufactured
    so I'm sure the name is up for grabs. Plus, to avoid confusion,
    the new MC Propeller Computer has more to the full name.
    That should prevent any confusion with other things named MC
    like Master Charge cards. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    humanoido

    Here's some interesting history to the 1989 vintage MC400 laptop.
    BTW, the Propeller computer is nothing like it.

    www.computinghistory.org.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=det&p=2801

    www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/1776/Latest-Additions/

    PRODTHM-2801.jpg

    Post Edited (humanoido) : 1/27/2010 2:40:41 PM GMT
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2010-01-27 18:10
    Those sites lack a few crucial bits of info...

    1. Battery life(8 x AA ) 60Hours+
    Alternatively, 20Hours on a 7.2V 1AH Ni-cad pack.
    (A 600mAH pack was also available. Incidentally, as the charger circuitry is in the pack itself, it's theoretically upgradeable to any technology. You could also plug the PSU directly into the battery, if you had a spare pack... )

    2. A fully Pre-emptive OS(something MS had problems with using a Pentium... ) with a complete GUI. It actually handles Z-orders and will keep updating windows in the background. Not bad on a computer with a slow 80C86 with 256KB RAM...

    3. The wordprocessor is fully WYSIWYG... So is the spreadsheet.
    Together with the Agenda the same OS and SW was used on their later Series 3 organisers.

    4. The touchpad is also 640x400 points, so it's a one-to-one match with the screen.

    5. It uses Flash SSDs for file storage. These are not connected in a parallell fashion, but using a serial networking protocol. It can fit 4 of them at any time...
    5.a. And they're hot-pluggable... Open a file on one, pop out the SSD, then try to save the file, and you'll get a polite message to reinsert the correct SSD.

    6. did I mention instant on? Yes, really instant.

    7. The 'sound recording' which never appeared was supposedly based on ISDN technology and was a module that was supposed to be slotted into a bay at the back. This slot also uses the same networking port as the SSDs... And the Serial/parallell module also fits into one of these bays. there's two of them)

    There was a MC200 machine, too with 640x200 resolution...

    We won't mention the menus at the top of the screen, which changes in a way similar to Mac OS...

    And the DOS-based cludge known as the MC 600 is best left to rot in whatever hell is reserved for that kind of sh!t...

    While the machine itself bombed, the technology lived on in the Series 3 PDA(0ne of the best PDA series ever), the HC and later WorkAbout handhelds
    In fact, the greatest selling-point for the MC400 at the end was that it was file-compatible with the little S3...

    Also, shame on you for not mentioning my languishing 'Magic Castle' sub-site dedicated to it.
    http://home.c2i.net/trygveh/mc400/index.html
    (I really need to fix the errors, update facts and links and move it to my current site)

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    Don't visit my new website...
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-27 23:24
    Gadgetman: your information and web site are remarkable! The data about OPL
    language is very interesting, both strengths and shortcomings, and interesting
    to note the language was improved with subsequent models and has a large
    following today.

    From Wikipedia:
    "The Open Programming Language (OPL) is an embedded programming language
    for portable devices that run the Symbian Operating System, which can be found
    on e.g. the Nokia 9200, 9300 and 9500 Communicator series mobile telephone/PDA
    and the Sony Ericsson's P800, P900, P910 series. On classic Psion PDAs such as the
    Series 3/5/5mx/Series 7 and netBook/netPad, as well as the MC218, OPL is part of
    the standard application suite. OPL is also included in Psion Teklogix industrial
    handhelds such as the Workabout mx. OPL is an interpreted language similar to
    BASIC. A fully Visual Basic-compatible language OVAL has been also developed.

    The language was originally called Organiser Programming Language developed by
    Psion Ltd for the Psion Organiser. The first implementation (without graphics) was
    for the original Psion Organiser (now referred to as the Psion Organiser I, 1984) and
    came bundled with the Science, Finance and Math datapaks. It became truly accessible
    as built in software in the Psion Organiser II (1986) and the language went on to be
    used in the Psion Series 3 and later. After Psion retired from the PDA market, the
    project was changed to open source and the acronym was re-interpreted. The language
    is now developed on SourceForge in the opl-dev project."

    OPL is now open souce, found here: opl-dev.sourceforge.net/

    According to the The Ultimate List of Propeller Chip Languages
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=809630
    the language has no Propeller version at this time.

    There is a book written "by the developer of OPL"
    mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=3899
    The OPL Optimization Programming Language, Pascal Van Hentenryck

    humanoido
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2010-01-28 05:48
    It's a very nifty language; the entire main loop of a large application can be so small that it fits on a single A4 sheet, but still handle all system events and whatnot.
    Another thing that's interesting about OPL is that in its second incarnation(on the organiser II) it was very easy to blend in assembly code.
    (This disappeared on later editions where one was instead encouraged to create dynamically linked libraries in C)
    It's a nifty language, I made an application for reading/programming DalSemi 'Thermochron' iButtons, several apps for reading assorted PalmPilot files, and on the Org II I combined it with assembly and a couple of ICs to make a bike computer.

    Also, that list of computers and phones is not correct as some of those phones doesn't have the OPL runtime built-in. It's just that it's possible to add it afterwards.
    And some are missing altogether from the list; GeoFox One, Oregon Scientific Osaris comes to mind.

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    Don't visit my new website...
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-02-15 07:48
    Folks, some time has passed since my previous post about the new Propeller-driven MC computer. There were many
    people requesting a drawing of the complete system. I am now proud to say the drawing is complete and posted below,
    after a month of arduous penciling on the back side of 40 dietary restaurant napkins which were skotch-taped together.
    While I never drew up a complete schematic, this pictorial can be used as a wiring guide for those willing to create their
    own project versions.

    TCMR-V03-P13.gif
    As you can see, this is the distributed computer version, i.e. the computer is distributed into other rooms.
    Fortunately, there are now several somewhat coerced neighbors that "volunteered" the space in their apartments
    to hold the distributed computer sections as my lab room was too small to contain everything. You can see my
    lab room in the forefront of the drawing. This distributed technique has worked fine, for the first week, then some
    debugging disaster - one neighbor has some drunk house cats that got into a bottle of New Year's Skotch and
    then chewed through the relay wires and it was a real mess to repair. The rush is to get everything back on
    track before the new terminals arrive.


    For more information on my retro computer project, consult this thread.
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=870799

    humanoido
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-02-15 08:06
    I'm very happy to report that the first batch of new
    terminals has arrived. The photo shows the unboxed
    units strewn around in the control room. As of yet,
    there are no hookup instructions. These units were
    shipped without manuals. It's ok, Blue'n'old Company
    tech support told us to simply guess when connecting
    each unit's 100+ wires.

    humanoido

    blueroom-50.JPG
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-02-15 08:17
    humanoido said...
    For more information on my retro computer project, consult this thread. forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&p=1&m=416303
    That's this selfsame thread! Ow! The recursion is making my head ache!

    -Phil
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-02-15 08:36
    Phil said...
    That's this selfsame thread! Ow! The recursion is making my head ache!

    -Phil
    Phil:
    Congrats! U were the only person to catch the pun.
    Recursive AND "RETRO." That's the idea!
    Maybe u have a double headache now... LOL!
    But Phil, c'mon, I thought at least you would
    have the common courtesy to say your head
    "SPINs." [noparse]:)[/noparse]))

    For dudes who missed it the first time, here it
    is the second time. hehe...
    humanoido said...
    For more information on my retro computer project, consult this thread.
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=870799
    Post Edited (humanoido) : 2/15/2010 8:43:29 AM GMT
  • rough_woodrough_wood Posts: 61
    edited 2010-02-15 10:51
    Don't forget the computers here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-12_National_Security_Complex

    If I recall, the place now has one of the fastest modern supercomputers in the world. Single digits, as far as rank in speed, this was last year mind you.

    By far the best tour I've ever done, better than a day on a nuclear aircraft carrier in the Atlantic, complete with takeoffs, landings, supersonic flybys, etc.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2010-02-15 15:05
    @humanoido, a little early or just anxious for winter to end? Its only February, not April.
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