I tried to get a Vinculum to work with USB hard drives. You do get activity lights when you plug it in but nothing happens when trying to read or write. I contacted FTDI about whether it was possible and they said definitely not.
Now that is interesting. How can it tell the difference between a USB keystick and a USB hard disk? They both present exactly the same interface, protocols and methodology. I don't understand why they would not work.
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
There is no apology necessary. For myself, I would like to understand and appreciate what a post of a few pictures from a "Happy Customer" is intended to provide....
"A Customer's Project"?
Is this project KISS OS specific or are they doing something else? I have surmised that KISS is not a general purpose OS in any traditional sense - is this correct? If no, then what is your Customer doing? If yes, then what aspect of (any) AI/MI are they persuing? Are they shadowing your efforts?
The HD will be using high-speed USB. High-speed isn't supported by the Vinculum chips, AFAIK. FTDI does have a new high-speed chip, but it doesn't support host mode.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
@BradC -- I've gotten the "lights but no activity" problem with my new 160GB bus-powered hard drive because some interfaces apparently can't supply enough power to spin it up. My older, larger 80GB unit which uses an external power supply has no such difficulties.
Leon said...
The HD will be using high-speed USB. High-speed isn't supported by the Vinculum chips, AFAIK. FTDI does have a new high-speed chip, but it doesn't support host mode.
Leon
No, the HDD *may* support High speed USB, but is _required_ to support full speed. And anyway, what you say implies that those hard disks won't work plugged into my old USB 1.1 laptop, and they do. The Vinc may only support full speed, but that won't prevent them from working with _any_ USB devices.
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
localroger said...
@BradC -- I've gotten the "lights but no activity" problem with my new 160GB bus-powered hard drive because some interfaces apparently can't supply enough power to spin it up. My older, larger 80GB unit which uses an external power supply has no such difficulties.
Yeah, I've seen that. I have a couple of "power injector" boards here I built to use USB hard disks on hosts with negligible current supply ability.
Generally under-power on a hard disk is accompanied with repeated clicking as the drive tries to move the head and the voltage repeatedly sags.
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
I tried to get a Vinculum to work with USB hard drives. You do get activity lights when you plug it in but nothing happens when trying to read or write. I contacted FTDI about whether it was possible and they said definitely not.
Now that is interesting. How can it tell the difference between a USB keystick and a USB hard disk? They both present exactly the same interface, protocols and methodology. I don't understand why they would not work.
mallred said...
I'm very sorry to have posted this. All I was trying to do is show our technology being used by a third party, a happy customer. I did not have enough information to do it justice. For that I apologize.
The 1TB HDD apparently is working, according to our customer.
I'll try to be more judicious in my postings from now on.
Mark
Mark,
I have lingered in the shadows for a long time, and feel some different perspective is needed for some of your posts.
Granted there are a lot of great items posted on these forums, but if you notice, most of those are shared openly. There are reasons some designs are not openly shared, but most of those revolve around safety and liability. You must realize the forums here are aimed at education and sharing. Neither of which MIT nor you seem to be willing or able to do. It seems to me (and evidently others) your posts only tempt people for the sake of advertising (or boasting).
This irritates members here. It is regarded as a type of spam from most members, and they do get verbal about the issue.
MIT are not the only people who are building items for sale in the electronics market. I myself assemble SMT boards for people, and also design other items for specific use. Most of those have had some kind of programming help from here. Although I stitched the program together making it a total beast of my design, though many of the objects within the program were used from the OBEX or from other threads here.
The point to the forum is to help others without asking for monetary compensation, where you abilities are strong. Without that focus, the forums fall into the Spam abyss and become nothing useful for anyone.
I and others are happy you find inspiration from the items you hear about, and get to see. It does nothing for the forum at all. Without specifics, the posts are mainly just vague meaningless advertisements (the underlying view from most here).
You should understand, people with any significant intelligence will not accept any major claim without proof. I frequent many forums where this is the norm, these forums are not unique in that fact.
Sharing here moves the group to a higher level of propeller use. Without out it, the Propeller would be another micro-controller with limited scope. The people here, and their willingness to openly share is the greatest asset of the Propeller. Without great people like Mike, Rockiki, Hippy, PhiPi (and many others) the propeller would not be so attractive for others with weaker programming skills. They are the success of the Propeller. The design is what enables this, but the people behind it, are what makes it attractive and useful.
The success of an outside person does little to further the success of the forum or the propeller. If the ideas or information can not be shared, it is just another advertisement.
I suggest (just trying to be helpful) you start writing objects that will help promote an advancement of the propeller, and leave the proprietary things where they belong. If we can't use them, they can not help us. If we can't learn from them, the point is moot.
We all think it is great if someone outside of the area does great things with the Propeller, but to continue to harp on items without specifics is counter productive, especially to you.
What specific device is MIT using to interface the Propeller with a USB bulk storage device?
From my hazy memory, the terms used are cram/eram/mram ?
cram being the 32kb of Propeller on-chip Ram, eram being the industry standard static ram interfaced to the propeller, and mram being the USB storage device (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong).
So, the 1TB hard disk is playing the role of mram ?
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Could you replace your photo with one that's a little smaller, please — or else just post a link to it? The dimensions of the one you posted are making the entire page too wide, forcing horizontal scrolling on all the other posts.
Could you replace your photo with one that's a little smaller, please — or else just post a link to it? The dimensions of the one you posted are making the entire page too wide, forcing horizontal scrolling on all the other posts.
Due to bad planning on my part my 'net link has been throttled by my ISP. That image is so big it caused the page load to timeout completely.
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Could you replace your photo with one that's a little smaller, please — or else just post a link to it? The dimensions of the one you posted are making the entire page too wide, forcing horizontal scrolling on all the other posts.
Thanks,
-Phil
BradC said...
Due to bad planning on my part my 'net link has been throttled by my ISP. That image is so big it caused the page load to timeout completely.
I am really sorry for the misuse, I didn't know. I just linked their picture in the picturebox. I hope that now is better, otherwise I will remove it. Let me know!
PS. (PhiPi, BradC) Feel free to PM me for such things: I usually not follow every thread (of my interest) every day and I don't want to be blamed for making the thread unusable for others.
The description for the Parallax Data logger:
"The Memory Stick Datalogger is a USB host bridge which allows you to connect a USB mass storage device, such as a thumb drive, to your BASIC Stamp, SX or Propeller microcontroller. ..."
I assuming that the "USB mass storage device", would include an external powered 1TB HDD. Since, the post said it was done, I am also assuming that the Data logger was able to handle the device.
Many moons ago I enquired of FTDI whether their vinculum based VDRIVE2 supported USB hard drives. This is what they said:
"The VDrive works with the FAT16 and FAT32 file systems.
USB notebook hard drives are supported."
They also indicated the complexity of the FAT could be an issue if there are too many files on huge drives. From what I understand FAT32 is good to 2TB using standard sector size?
Rsadeika said...
The description for the Parallax Data logger:
"The Memory Stick Datalogger is a USB host bridge which allows you to connect a USB mass storage device, such as a thumb drive, to your BASIC Stamp, SX or Propeller microcontroller. ..."
I assuming that the "USB mass storage device", would include an external powered 1TB HDD. Since, the post said it was done, I am also assuming that the Data logger was able to handle the device.
Comments
Now that is interesting. How can it tell the difference between a USB keystick and a USB hard disk? They both present exactly the same interface, protocols and methodology. I don't understand why they would not work.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
There is no apology necessary. For myself, I would like to understand and appreciate what a post of a few pictures from a "Happy Customer" is intended to provide....
"A Customer's Project"?
Is this project KISS OS specific or are they doing something else? I have surmised that KISS is not a general purpose OS in any traditional sense - is this correct? If no, then what is your Customer doing? If yes, then what aspect of (any) AI/MI are they persuing? Are they shadowing your efforts?
Please elaborate or have the "Customer" do same.
Cheers,
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
No, the HDD *may* support High speed USB, but is _required_ to support full speed. And anyway, what you say implies that those hard disks won't work plugged into my old USB 1.1 laptop, and they do. The Vinc may only support full speed, but that won't prevent them from working with _any_ USB devices.
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Yeah, I've seen that. I have a couple of "power injector" boards here I built to use USB hard disks on hosts with negligible current supply ability.
Generally under-power on a hard disk is accompanied with repeated clicking as the drive tries to move the head and the voltage repeatedly sags.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
I think you are right. Most high-speed devices should work at full-speed, with reduced performance.
leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
PEDIT: Resized the image (@PhiPi: I am sorry for that. I don't get it was me that caused this issue)
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· Propeller Object Exchange (last Publications / Updates)
Post Edited (dMajo) : 9/8/2009 12:54:13 PM GMT
Mark,
I have lingered in the shadows for a long time, and feel some different perspective is needed for some of your posts.
Granted there are a lot of great items posted on these forums, but if you notice, most of those are shared openly. There are reasons some designs are not openly shared, but most of those revolve around safety and liability. You must realize the forums here are aimed at education and sharing. Neither of which MIT nor you seem to be willing or able to do. It seems to me (and evidently others) your posts only tempt people for the sake of advertising (or boasting).
This irritates members here. It is regarded as a type of spam from most members, and they do get verbal about the issue.
MIT are not the only people who are building items for sale in the electronics market. I myself assemble SMT boards for people, and also design other items for specific use. Most of those have had some kind of programming help from here. Although I stitched the program together making it a total beast of my design, though many of the objects within the program were used from the OBEX or from other threads here.
The point to the forum is to help others without asking for monetary compensation, where you abilities are strong. Without that focus, the forums fall into the Spam abyss and become nothing useful for anyone.
I and others are happy you find inspiration from the items you hear about, and get to see. It does nothing for the forum at all. Without specifics, the posts are mainly just vague meaningless advertisements (the underlying view from most here).
You should understand, people with any significant intelligence will not accept any major claim without proof. I frequent many forums where this is the norm, these forums are not unique in that fact.
Sharing here moves the group to a higher level of propeller use. Without out it, the Propeller would be another micro-controller with limited scope. The people here, and their willingness to openly share is the greatest asset of the Propeller. Without great people like Mike, Rockiki, Hippy, PhiPi (and many others) the propeller would not be so attractive for others with weaker programming skills. They are the success of the Propeller. The design is what enables this, but the people behind it, are what makes it attractive and useful.
The success of an outside person does little to further the success of the forum or the propeller. If the ideas or information can not be shared, it is just another advertisement.
I suggest (just trying to be helpful) you start writing objects that will help promote an advancement of the propeller, and leave the proprietary things where they belong. If we can't use them, they can not help us. If we can't learn from them, the point is moot.
We all think it is great if someone outside of the area does great things with the Propeller, but to continue to harp on items without specifics is counter productive, especially to you.
James L
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James L
Partner/Designer
Lil Brother SMT Assembly Services
Please note: Due to economic conditions the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice. Thanks for your understanding.
What specific device is MIT using to interface the Propeller with a USB bulk storage device?
From my hazy memory, the terms used are cram/eram/mram ?
cram being the 32kb of Propeller on-chip Ram, eram being the industry standard static ram interfaced to the propeller, and mram being the USB storage device (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong).
So, the 1TB hard disk is playing the role of mram ?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Could you replace your photo with one that's a little smaller, please — or else just post a link to it? The dimensions of the one you posted are making the entire page too wide, forcing horizontal scrolling on all the other posts.
Thanks,
-Phil
Due to bad planning on my part my 'net link has been throttled by my ISP. That image is so big it caused the page load to timeout completely.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
PS. (PhiPi, BradC) Feel free to PM me for such things: I usually not follow every thread (of my interest) every day and I don't want to be blamed for making the thread unusable for others.
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· Propeller Object Exchange (last Publications / Updates)
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
"The Memory Stick Datalogger is a USB host bridge which allows you to connect a USB mass storage device, such as a thumb drive, to your BASIC Stamp, SX or Propeller microcontroller. ..."
I assuming that the "USB mass storage device", would include an external powered 1TB HDD. Since, the post said it was done, I am also assuming that the Data logger was able to handle the device.
Ray
Thanks for reducing the photo. It's much better now!
-Phil
http://www.ghielectronics.com/images/products/GHI-00006.jpg
There is little or no mention of HDD's in the parallax product description.
www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/vinculum/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/434/Default.aspx
Many moons ago I enquired of FTDI whether their vinculum based VDRIVE2 supported USB hard drives. This is what they said:
"The VDrive works with the FAT16 and FAT32 file systems.
USB notebook hard drives are supported."
They also indicated the complexity of the FAT could be an issue if there are too many files on huge drives. From what I understand FAT32 is good to 2TB using standard sector size?
Post Edited (Tubular) : 9/9/2009 10:45:00 AM GMT
"We have tested an 80Gb USB hard drive with vinculum. The hard drive must be set up with on one partition and use a FAT 12,16 or 32."
I assume he meant they tested it and it worked [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm