I would echo SRLM and microcontrolled's comments. It's one thing to be constructively critical of something someone has said or posted. It's another thing to mock it or just be critical without suggesting something useful. Clock Loop at least posted a link to an example of how to post a description of a project. It speaks badly of our community to have these sorts of base comments. One of the things that has set this community apart from other manufacturers' support forums has been the way we treat newcomers and others who have been members for a time. Most of the time we're polite, treat people with respect and patience even if their questions seem "dumb". We tend to make people do their homework (particularly if it is indeed homework). We also provide criticism where it's warranted, but this sort of thread is becoming disgusting. Shame!
I agree with Mike, the Parallax forums have always had a certain level of class, but that status has taken a hit lately, rather coincidental with mallred's posts.
It is obvious that mallred is aware of the reasonable criticisms regarding his posts, and has chosen to maintain the status quo. The only conclusion is that they enjoy the attention, else they would respond with something of value. It would serve the forum best to just ignore the posts that are only baiting for criticism.
Mike Green said...
Most of the time we're polite, treat people with respect and patience even if their questions seem "dumb". We tend to make people do their homework (particularly if it is indeed homework). We also provide criticism where it's warranted, but this sort of thread is becoming disgusting. Shame!
With all due respect, don't you think that says something?· That a noob can come here and ask how to hookup his ps2 adaper and gets near instant help vs 'RTFM', and these threads turn out the way that they do?
And when the questions regarding the original vague post are answered with ·"Geez, don't you guys have eyeballs!??·· It's a thingy, hooked up to another thingy, hooked up to a tertiary thingy, and all of it is working!"
you just know what's going to happen.
A 'thingy'?· Is that the best we can expect from cutting edge scientific research?
The truth is, I have not spoken with this customer. All I know is that he sent an email to Dr. Jim with these photos and that he is committed to follow our project step by step.
I thought you might like to see that there are others out there that are working on this same project.
What can I assume from this? He has a modified prop board, he has two ERAM boards, he has the KISS Debugger and the KISS OS and he is working with the commands to become familiar with them. He has uncovered a few minor bugs, which we fix right away, and is now waiting for the VR. Although, he did comment that he was very pleased with the Datalogger upgrade to allow for FAT32, which greatly increases untethered capacity.
I'm sorry if you thought I was unveiling something great a customer has done. Who knows, he may have, but for now, I was just posting to show you that others are working toward (getting ready for) the VR implementation. Sorry if it was an immature posting.
mallred
P.S. about my "thingy" post, I do have a sense of humor.· Honestly, if you thought I was serious...
mallred is in marketing. His job is to create buzz ... getting technical at all is going out of his field and can be dangerous. Every post responding to his threads support the idea that the product in interesting in some respect (or dis-respect). The longer the thread the better.
I think the point Leon was driving is that usually the second incarnation of something is usually better ... just ask Steve Wozniak about Apple I / Apple II.
Recently mallred used an idea called "appeal to a higher power" ... Mike Green is apparently perceived this way [noparse]:)[/noparse] Generally I think it was a good move for mallred to be more respectful to Mike than he was before. mallred learned something from his mistake and has come to terms with it. Please recognize this and try to be more constructive.
Bating is not dialog. Please try to contribute something significant or respectful of the collective intellect. Remember what mom used to say: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
mallred said...
We thought you might take interest in this.
By the way, we have had zero complaints from our customers. Those who are actually working with our products have found small bugs, which we have fixed, but nothing major. They are very pleased with what we have done so far.
Hello Mr Mallred,
It is always nice to see peoples projects posted on the forum. Although no one seems to know exactly what this is for (nor have any posts even hinted at this) I enjoyed seeing the pictures. However this has nothing to do in particular with any value added (or not) by your products. I just liked seeing a different construction technique and thought it was neatly done. It could have been powered by a Stamp or other micro and it would still been interesting. Your customer gets good marks in building a prototype in a professional way.
If your customers (since it is plural I assume there are at least 2) are happy that is great. Everyone selling products should strive for that. Hopefully they got some real information on your products when they bought them. From your website it does look like someone did a nice job on the Memory expansion board layout and it could be a great product. However there is no way to know without some sort of datasheet or technical details. There should be some sort of documentation with it that covers the interface, protocol used, memory map, etc. With that it may find uses for other Propeller applications besides your proprietary ones that don't seem to be written yet. At the moment if I had to pick a memory expansion board for the Propeller I would have to lean toward the Hydra expansion or the Mem+ Memory I/O 4 Morpheus, both of which have excellent documentation. Unless some real specs are posted how could anyone really consider a purchase? If you eventually post that then perhaps I can consider your products in the future.
I think what is going on is that Dr. Jim is busy pushing the next piece of the puzzle out before the last peice has the documentation done. He is really the only one that can write the documentation. Because of the rapid pace, the documentation is frankly an afterthought and does need to be revisited. It is true we need to do a better job with that.
That being said, Dr. Jim is producing a lot of the peices of our puzzle very rapidly. We should be able to show the results soon on video. It will probably take longer to write the documentation.
Mark, I agree with Robert on having documentation and specs in order to sell a product. We will be looking for that.
Another·reason for my post is to ask how your wife is doing? Hope everything is going better.
Jim
mallred said...
Thanks Robert,
I think what is going on is that Dr. Jim is busy pushing the next piece of the puzzle out before the last peice has the documentation done. He is really the only one that can write the documentation. Because of the rapid pace, the documentation is frankly an afterthought and does need to be revisited. It is true we need to do a better job with that.
That being said, Dr. Jim is producing a lot of the peices of our puzzle very rapidly. We should be able to show the results soon on video. It will probably take longer to write the documentation.
With documentation, half of the challenge is formatting and grammatical checks. Why not have Dr. Jim do all the documentation in plain text format, and hand it off to you to make pretty? You can really build a brand, and it doesn't need to be Dr. Jim that has to do it. Have him write the basics, you format it and make it look nice, then send it back to him and ask "Is it still technically correct". This way, he spends the minimal amount of time on documentation.
I am curious also the opinion of us here. I highly doubt that it is a good one after all the heckling given to Dr. Jim and mallred. The text only idea is a good one. That way Dr. Jim won't have to fiddle with images and such.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled. I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
Hey Mark;
I am delighted to hear that your customer is happy with your projects. Really! In fact, everyone on this forum would be delighted to see MIT succeed, since that would be good for Parallax and it would show that we backed the right horse.
here is an idea, that may make everyone happy (or perhaps happier). You have said that you are not the technical force behind MIT. Fair enough ! But think of the advantages if you were to become very familiar with the prop systems and could discuss the hardware and software issues with the many experts that are here. Why not buy a board or two for yourself, learn to program it, and join in on the fun yourself ? I am sure that everyone here would greet you with open arms. (you can see the good reception that newbies get here). I think that I can even remember Ken G joining the party not so very long ago, and I think that he finds that he is more comfortable with the products as a result (Ken ?).
So why not join in instead of acting as an intermediate between hostile tribes ? Fewer arrows in the back when speaking face-to-face. I am betting that you would become a fan of the devices in a hurry, and in a way that beats being a spokesperson.
1TB Hard Drive connected huh? I would think that would be exciting! Can you tell us how it was attached? Do you plan on contributing the drivers to the Obect Exchange?
mallred said...
I do not wish to start another flame war. You should already know Dr. Jim's opinion of the members of this forum.
Indeed. Which is why I have largely refrained from commenting in your threads. I must admit I was surprised to consequently see Dr Jim asking for programmers to work for free in this forum.
Your work and yourselves have been met with a good degree of "ragging" ( as someone put it elsewhere ), and I can understand why, I'd expect the same if I announced I'd done something wonderful but then refused to elaborate. The onus would be on me to defend and counter accusations of being a "BS merchant" or "trolling". If I did not or could not, I'd expect the ragging to continue unabated, my credibility dragged through the mud, repeatedly.
I have never seen such antagonism and dis-harmony generated on this forum ever before and members cannot be held entirely to blame for that. However members do have choice in their actions, and I would recommend - as I have - members restrain themselves from the natural urge to cry "BS", and simply ignore what maybe a red rag to a bull.
Excepting of course where the discussion has merit, and your 1TB disk drive on a Propeller fits that category. Having had some success with an IDE drive on an 8-bit bus I'd be very interested ( and I'm sure others would ) in hearing how you wired your hardware, the software used, and other details of your success.
When members have something to get their teeth into they can be a superb bunch. Offering advice, help, improvements and having no end of useful insights. Give and take and helping is what this forum does best. Engagement is all it takes, an understanding that as you give so you shall receive, often in bucket loads. Relationships are a two way thing.
The 1TB disk drive post is just fresh bait for mallrat to do some more fishing otherwise there would have been a schematic and some source posted by now.
Cheers.
Hi Ken Gracey, me thinks another thread need locking.
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Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Excepting of course where the discussion has merit, and your 1TB disk drive on a Propeller fits that category. Having had some success with an IDE drive on an 8-bit bus I'd be very interested ( and I'm sure others would ) in hearing how you wired your hardware, the software used, and other details of your success.
If you look at previous information given on the MIT system, they appear to be using some variant of Vinculum to interface to any generic USB disk. I'd suspect the client plugged a 1TB disk in and found it worked with the system.
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Would this "anonymous Customer" like to register and provide first-hand posts? An outline of what they are doing as it relates to their interests, progress, success and/or failures - specifically related to KISS &c.?
Although benefit-of-doubt is often a good thing; no proof is also no purchase in a sensible decision making process.
A question for an AI/MI entity than learns and remembers:
Would an intelligent artifical recognise signs of deception or is that something that would have to be censored because it might reveal truths that are best to be left undiscovered; until...?
Perhaps that is why the Cylons turned on the Humans?
I'm very sorry to have posted this. All I was trying to do is show our technology being used by a third party, a happy customer. I did not have enough information to do it justice. For that I apologize.
The 1TB HDD apparently is working, according to our customer.
I'll try to be more judicious in my postings from now on.
If you look at previous information given on the MIT system, they appear to be using some variant of Vinculum to interface to any generic USB disk. I'd suspect the client plugged a 1TB disk in and found it worked with the system.
I tried to get a Vinculum to work with USB hard drives. You do get activity lights when you plug it in but nothing happens when trying to read or write. I contacted FTDI about whether it was possible and they said definitely not.
Comments
I don't think anyone has been mean.....................
Besides what does the thing do apart from have a few problems?
Cheers
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Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse
I detect some sarcasm here. Yes?
It is obvious that mallred is aware of the reasonable criticisms regarding his posts, and has chosen to maintain the status quo. The only conclusion is that they enjoy the attention, else they would respond with something of value. It would serve the forum best to just ignore the posts that are only baiting for criticism.
And when the questions regarding the original vague post are answered with
·"Geez, don't you guys have eyeballs!??·· It's a thingy, hooked up to another thingy, hooked up to a tertiary thingy, and all of it is working!"
you just know what's going to happen.
A 'thingy'?· Is that the best we can expect from cutting edge scientific research?
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The truth is, I have not spoken with this customer. All I know is that he sent an email to Dr. Jim with these photos and that he is committed to follow our project step by step.
I thought you might like to see that there are others out there that are working on this same project.
What can I assume from this? He has a modified prop board, he has two ERAM boards, he has the KISS Debugger and the KISS OS and he is working with the commands to become familiar with them. He has uncovered a few minor bugs, which we fix right away, and is now waiting for the VR. Although, he did comment that he was very pleased with the Datalogger upgrade to allow for FAT32, which greatly increases untethered capacity.
I'm sorry if you thought I was unveiling something great a customer has done. Who knows, he may have, but for now, I was just posting to show you that others are working toward (getting ready for) the VR implementation. Sorry if it was an immature posting.
mallred
P.S. about my "thingy" post, I do have a sense of humor.· Honestly, if you thought I was serious...
Post Edited (mallred) : 9/2/2009 5:47:50 PM GMT
Would be interesting to know what he's planning with it assuming he can share it and why he's need all the RAM and processing to do it.
Post Edited (photomankc) : 9/2/2009 6:10:31 PM GMT
I think the point Leon was driving is that usually the second incarnation of something is usually better ... just ask Steve Wozniak about Apple I / Apple II.
Recently mallred used an idea called "appeal to a higher power" ... Mike Green is apparently perceived this way [noparse]:)[/noparse] Generally I think it was a good move for mallred to be more respectful to Mike than he was before. mallred learned something from his mistake and has come to terms with it. Please recognize this and try to be more constructive.
Bating is not dialog. Please try to contribute something significant or respectful of the collective intellect. Remember what mom used to say: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
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--Steve
Propeller Tools
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Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled.
I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
Hello Mr Mallred,
It is always nice to see peoples projects posted on the forum. Although no one seems to know exactly what this is for (nor have any posts even hinted at this) I enjoyed seeing the pictures. However this has nothing to do in particular with any value added (or not) by your products. I just liked seeing a different construction technique and thought it was neatly done. It could have been powered by a Stamp or other micro and it would still been interesting. Your customer gets good marks in building a prototype in a professional way.
If your customers (since it is plural I assume there are at least 2) are happy that is great. Everyone selling products should strive for that. Hopefully they got some real information on your products when they bought them. From your website it does look like someone did a nice job on the Memory expansion board layout and it could be a great product. However there is no way to know without some sort of datasheet or technical details. There should be some sort of documentation with it that covers the interface, protocol used, memory map, etc. With that it may find uses for other Propeller applications besides your proprietary ones that don't seem to be written yet. At the moment if I had to pick a memory expansion board for the Propeller I would have to lean toward the Hydra expansion or the Mem+ Memory I/O 4 Morpheus, both of which have excellent documentation. Unless some real specs are posted how could anyone really consider a purchase? If you eventually post that then perhaps I can consider your products in the future.
Good luck on your projects,
Robert
I think what is going on is that Dr. Jim is busy pushing the next piece of the puzzle out before the last peice has the documentation done. He is really the only one that can write the documentation. Because of the rapid pace, the documentation is frankly an afterthought and does need to be revisited. It is true we need to do a better job with that.
That being said, Dr. Jim is producing a lot of the peices of our puzzle very rapidly. We should be able to show the results soon on video. It will probably take longer to write the documentation.
All your points are valid and well taken. Thanks.
Another·reason for my post is to ask how your wife is doing? Hope everything is going better.
Jim
Agent,
this little gif movie of Data having a Windows crash has kept me laughing all day long. Thanks for cheering me up!
Thank you for your concern about my wife.· She seems to be ok, with occasional pain, still undiagnosed.
I guess doctors are not perfect.
Just curious, what is Dr. Jim's opinion of us on the forums (not Parallax)?
thanks,
Howard
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
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Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled.
I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
I am delighted to hear that your customer is happy with your projects. Really! In fact, everyone on this forum would be delighted to see MIT succeed, since that would be good for Parallax and it would show that we backed the right horse.
here is an idea, that may make everyone happy (or perhaps happier). You have said that you are not the technical force behind MIT. Fair enough ! But think of the advantages if you were to become very familiar with the prop systems and could discuss the hardware and software issues with the many experts that are here. Why not buy a board or two for yourself, learn to program it, and join in on the fun yourself ? I am sure that everyone here would greet you with open arms. (you can see the good reception that newbies get here). I think that I can even remember Ken G joining the party not so very long ago, and I think that he finds that he is more comfortable with the products as a result (Ken ?).
So why not join in instead of acting as an intermediate between hostile tribes ? Fewer arrows in the back when speaking face-to-face. I am betting that you would become a fan of the devices in a hurry, and in a way that beats being a spokesperson.
Cheers!
Paul Rowntree
%#*%^@#~!
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Thanks,
Doug
Indeed. Which is why I have largely refrained from commenting in your threads. I must admit I was surprised to consequently see Dr Jim asking for programmers to work for free in this forum.
Your work and yourselves have been met with a good degree of "ragging" ( as someone put it elsewhere ), and I can understand why, I'd expect the same if I announced I'd done something wonderful but then refused to elaborate. The onus would be on me to defend and counter accusations of being a "BS merchant" or "trolling". If I did not or could not, I'd expect the ragging to continue unabated, my credibility dragged through the mud, repeatedly.
I have never seen such antagonism and dis-harmony generated on this forum ever before and members cannot be held entirely to blame for that. However members do have choice in their actions, and I would recommend - as I have - members restrain themselves from the natural urge to cry "BS", and simply ignore what maybe a red rag to a bull.
Excepting of course where the discussion has merit, and your 1TB disk drive on a Propeller fits that category. Having had some success with an IDE drive on an 8-bit bus I'd be very interested ( and I'm sure others would ) in hearing how you wired your hardware, the software used, and other details of your success.
When members have something to get their teeth into they can be a superb bunch. Offering advice, help, improvements and having no end of useful insights. Give and take and helping is what this forum does best. Engagement is all it takes, an understanding that as you give so you shall receive, often in bucket loads. Relationships are a two way thing.
The 1TB disk drive post is just fresh bait for mallrat to do some more fishing otherwise there would have been a schematic and some source posted by now.
Cheers.
Hi Ken Gracey, me thinks another thread need locking.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse
If you look at previous information given on the MIT system, they appear to be using some variant of Vinculum to interface to any generic USB disk. I'd suspect the client plugged a 1TB disk in and found it worked with the system.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Although benefit-of-doubt is often a good thing; no proof is also no purchase in a sensible decision making process.
A question for an AI/MI entity than learns and remembers:
Would an intelligent artifical recognise signs of deception or is that something that would have to be censored because it might reveal truths that are best to be left undiscovered; until...?
Perhaps that is why the Cylons turned on the Humans?
The 1TB HDD apparently is working, according to our customer.
I'll try to be more judicious in my postings from now on.
Mark