waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.
You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.
The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.
Hyperbole much?
Come back to me after you've used these machines and tell me what you think.
Peter Paine collects Symbolics LISP machines and has a good explanation of why they are so unique:
I visited Peter 25 years ago and he let play with his Symbolics 'personal computer' (the top of the range 3600). At the time he was using it for consultancy work for the UK military and was spending a phenomenal amount each month on his maintenance contract (they are very complex machines). When I contacted him a couple of years ago he offered me one for nothing. I might still take him up on the offer.
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Re: Some of the rude comments that were posted on the various Dr Jim threads.:
While it fine to disagree with or to challenge a post/poster, remember that allot of younger people read the post on here and are potentially easily influenced by our behaviour (good or bad) . We should set an example for them. When I don't like a post I just ignore it.
Re: Dr Jim's project:
I enjoying learning what I can about his project. Even though questions about his project have not been answered directly on this forum, everyone was invited to ask questions on his website.
Link to his article: ( From his website : Robot Magazine July-August 2009 issue. Dr. Jim's first major article on machine intelligence for Robot Magazine. A very interesting perspective. ) machineinteltech.com/RobotMag7-09.pdf
==========================================================================================================================================
How his new technology works: His new idea/s is/are based on how ECC codes work and related to the patent below:
Patent Application Info (refered to in the article above : Robot Magazine July-August 2009 issue):
United States Patent 5,267,328
Gouge November 30, 1993
Method for selecting distinctive pattern information from a pixel generated image
Abstract
This invention describes methods and apparatus for the radial extraction and pattern recognition of image information based on "back scatter" produced by focused beam of energy such as those used in radar, sonar, and ultrasound. This invention includes methods for line and geometric pattern extraction and recognition from an image based on a pixel array. In the present invention, the information obtained from "back scatter" energy extracted and encoded by the radial extraction algorithms becomes determinants to be used either individually or in concert with each other depending upon the application and desired function. The line and geometric pattern algorithms can be used to process any type of image. These algorithms which extract and encode the patterns contained in the "back scatter" and geometric shapes contained in images are unique and provide an evaluation of various multidimensional aspects of groups of pixels in the resultant image. In addition, these algorithms are not based upon strict mathematical concepts but are rather translated to the computer in terms of bit strings which require very little processing time. The disclosed methods are designed for efficient image processing in real time on PC-type computer equipment.
I am so glad we all became fast friends after some of those unfortunate comments on both sides. [noparse];)[/noparse]
I do not think any of you are unintelligent. I spoke in anger.
We have a following of very interested people who have bought our boards and are following this project of Dr. Jim's every step of the way. Parallax is a primary beneficiary of our efforts and that is on purpose. They have been very good to us from the start.
I get on this forum far more than Dr. Gouge. I have admitted freely that it is he who is the technical master. I do not pretend to know a particle of what he knows in hardware, software, or theory. I have gleaned an understanding of the importance of his work and have tried to share that excitement with this forum.
I get it that you need proof. That is obvious. Dr. Jim is alluding to some of his technologies in our blog, but not conveying everything. His work is based on many patents, not just one. You will have to forgive his lack of response, as he has had technology stolen from him in the past.
Also, as we have explained, we are actively building the platform upon which his intelligence algorithms will reside. We have specific reasons for choosing the Parallax Propeller, so please accept that. If you like the propeller, you should be supportive and ecstatic about where he is taking this awesome microcontroller.
As I sit in the hospital with my wife gravely ill, I see the bigger picture in life. Please forgive my offences. Yours are already forgiven.
I will see if Dr. Jim can add some more meat to our blog videos in the near future.
mallred said...
You will have to forgive his [noparse][[/noparse]Dr. Gouge] lack of response, as he has had technology stolen from him in the past.
Edit: this isn't meant to be as controversial as it sounds. What is the purpose of his research? Is it to get rich? Is it to make something new and innovative? Is it to make a name for himself? Science (and a few technology people) regularly share their cutting edge research in the form of journals, and the modern sciences are built on the regular exchange of ideas and criticisms. While it's not perfect and it's not the only system for advancement available, it does seem to work better than an isolationist policy.
mallred said...
As I sit in the hospital with my wife gravely ill, I see the bigger picture in life. Please forgive my offences. Yours are already forgiven.
Thank you for your kind words about my wife. She was in the ER on Friday as well.
Dr. Gouge wants to encourage machine intelligence research with anyone interested in moving the science forward. He is selling this opportunity (boards, software, etc.) but wants to keep it affordable for anyone interested.
He is funding his ongoing research and a portion of his retirement with this project. For these reasons, we must charge something for the technology.
I'm sure that if Dr. Gouge were independently wealthy, much of this technology would be free. Circumstances do not allow for that at this time.
There is a growing following who are purely going on faith and purchasing from us. We continue our development because, 1. It Rocks, and 2. We have an obligation to our customers to deliver what we promised. So far, everything Dr. Gouge said he was going to accomplish, he has done. The proof is the growing list of products on our website. There is an element of faith in those purchasing from us at this very early stage, and we respect and admire their initiative. We will continue producing great technologies primarily for these early adopters, and then for the wider public as it becomes more accepted.
We encourage interested parties to get started. No sweat if you think it is too risky. We are confident that we will eventually win some of you round.
If I were not optimistic about our success, I would expect no one to follow us. But our optimism is high!
As a P.S. to my previous post, Dr. Gouge prefers to work in isolation. If you read the July/August issue of Robot Magazine, you should get that impression. He talks about his feelings about the way innovation is achieved. There is a .PDF version of that article posted on our website.
Just reading this thread for fun. I don't even get the magazine. A magazine is media. You get what you pay for sometimes. I am new to Parallax but not to technoligy. There is lots of technoligy online for free and this forum is great. Technoligy and politics don't mix.
Just my 02 cents, I did read the article and was very interested in the memory card but to be honest the price was just too high for me and the fact that some of the board was wire wrapped just made me feel it was not fully developed. But the biggest thing was I was interested in the "prop proto board" mod that I thought from reading the article would give my prop proto board the ability to run this very interesting software but I learned later this was not the case so the only reason I could see for this very expensive memory board and hardware mods was for this AI software ,, The article then stated that it would be made the "software" available for free for hobbyists to "pull it apart " but ·it would only be on a PC platform not the prop. I did email the company and asked these very questions but never received a reply. I have no intention of adding to the negative posts but it is bothersome that if someone or a business wants to offer a product and I have no objection to that especially since this is not my website but Parallaxes they should at least take the time to try and answer the questions being posted to them after all you did post your product right????? It would only make sense to answer potential customer’s questions regarding your offered product. I followed the posts from the start and did not think anyone was being “negative” or attacked anyone the questions they asked seemed legitimate to me… · ·
Thank you, jazzed. After two ERs in four days, the source of my wife's pain (other than myself [noparse];)[/noparse] is still a mystery. Thanks for thinking about us.
Mark, I hope they find - and fix - whatever it is. I know how horrible it is when a loved one is in a pain - and how terrible waiting in a hospital is.
My thoughts are with you and your wife.
Bill
mallred said...
Thank you, jazzed. After two ERs in four days, the source of my wife's pain (other than myself [noparse];)[/noparse] is still a mystery. Thanks for thinking about us.
Comments
Peter Paine collects Symbolics LISP machines and has a good explanation of why they are so unique:
www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/
I visited Peter 25 years ago and he let play with his Symbolics 'personal computer' (the top of the range 3600). At the time he was using it for consultancy work for the UK military and was spending a phenomenal amount each month on his maintenance contract (they are very complex machines). When I contacted him a couple of years ago he offered me one for nothing. I might still take him up on the offer.
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Post Edited (Leon) : 7/23/2009 11:03:41 AM GMT
While it fine to disagree with or to challenge a post/poster, remember that allot of younger people read the post on here and are potentially easily influenced by our behaviour (good or bad) . We should set an example for them. When I don't like a post I just ignore it.
Re: Dr Jim's project:
I enjoying learning what I can about his project. Even though questions about his project have not been answered directly on this forum, everyone was invited to ask questions on his website.
==========================================================================================================================================
Link to his article: ( From his website : Robot Magazine July-August 2009 issue. Dr. Jim's first major article on machine intelligence for Robot Magazine. A very interesting perspective. )
machineinteltech.com/RobotMag7-09.pdf
==========================================================================================================================================
How his new technology works: His new idea/s is/are based on how ECC codes work and related to the patent below:
Patent Application Info (refered to in the article above : Robot Magazine July-August 2009 issue):
United States Patent 5,267,328
Gouge November 30, 1993
Method for selecting distinctive pattern information from a pixel generated image
Abstract
This invention describes methods and apparatus for the radial extraction and pattern recognition of image information based on "back scatter" produced by focused beam of energy such as those used in radar, sonar, and ultrasound. This invention includes methods for line and geometric pattern extraction and recognition from an image based on a pixel array. In the present invention, the information obtained from "back scatter" energy extracted and encoded by the radial extraction algorithms becomes determinants to be used either individually or in concert with each other depending upon the application and desired function. The line and geometric pattern algorithms can be used to process any type of image. These algorithms which extract and encode the patterns contained in the "back scatter" and geometric shapes contained in images are unique and provide an evaluation of various multidimensional aspects of groups of pixels in the resultant image. In addition, these algorithms are not based upon strict mathematical concepts but are rather translated to the computer in terms of bit strings which require very little processing time. The disclosed methods are designed for efficient image processing in real time on PC-type computer equipment.
ECC Reference:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_detection_and_correction
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Aka: CosmicBob
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·
Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··
I do not think any of you are unintelligent. I spoke in anger.
We have a following of very interested people who have bought our boards and are following this project of Dr. Jim's every step of the way. Parallax is a primary beneficiary of our efforts and that is on purpose. They have been very good to us from the start.
I get on this forum far more than Dr. Gouge. I have admitted freely that it is he who is the technical master. I do not pretend to know a particle of what he knows in hardware, software, or theory. I have gleaned an understanding of the importance of his work and have tried to share that excitement with this forum.
I get it that you need proof. That is obvious. Dr. Jim is alluding to some of his technologies in our blog, but not conveying everything. His work is based on many patents, not just one. You will have to forgive his lack of response, as he has had technology stolen from him in the past.
Also, as we have explained, we are actively building the platform upon which his intelligence algorithms will reside. We have specific reasons for choosing the Parallax Propeller, so please accept that. If you like the propeller, you should be supportive and ecstatic about where he is taking this awesome microcontroller.
As I sit in the hospital with my wife gravely ill, I see the bigger picture in life. Please forgive my offences. Yours are already forgiven.
I will see if Dr. Jim can add some more meat to our blog videos in the near future.
Have a blessed day everyone.
Sincerely,
Mark Allred
Post Edited (mallred) : 7/27/2009 10:10:36 PM GMT
Edit: this isn't meant to be as controversial as it sounds. What is the purpose of his research? Is it to get rich? Is it to make something new and innovative? Is it to make a name for himself? Science (and a few technology people) regularly share their cutting edge research in the form of journals, and the modern sciences are built on the regular exchange of ideas and criticisms. While it's not perfect and it's not the only system for advancement available, it does seem to work better than an isolationist policy.
My condolences.
Dr. Gouge wants to encourage machine intelligence research with anyone interested in moving the science forward. He is selling this opportunity (boards, software, etc.) but wants to keep it affordable for anyone interested.
He is funding his ongoing research and a portion of his retirement with this project. For these reasons, we must charge something for the technology.
I'm sure that if Dr. Gouge were independently wealthy, much of this technology would be free. Circumstances do not allow for that at this time.
There is a growing following who are purely going on faith and purchasing from us. We continue our development because, 1. It Rocks, and 2. We have an obligation to our customers to deliver what we promised. So far, everything Dr. Gouge said he was going to accomplish, he has done. The proof is the growing list of products on our website. There is an element of faith in those purchasing from us at this very early stage, and we respect and admire their initiative. We will continue producing great technologies primarily for these early adopters, and then for the wider public as it becomes more accepted.
We encourage interested parties to get started. No sweat if you think it is too risky. We are confident that we will eventually win some of you round.
If I were not optimistic about our success, I would expect no one to follow us. But our optimism is high!
See you on the blog.
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
·
·
Mark
My thoughts are with you and your wife.
Bill
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full